Support NeoGAF

[SlicedBread3]

Damn Hermen

Jim and Herman right now be like:

 

[Godot25]

TBH the issue with RedFall seems like it was on the way to being one sort of game, but then when MS stepped in forced the game to become something else and only with a two-year timeline to change it to whatever taste they were looking for to satiate "Xbox, PC and Game Pass".

There's probably an earlier build of RedFall with very different gameplay compared to what we got, that will leak some day in the future.

So...the narrative is that Microsoft interferes with studios too much and that's bad thing or they are letting studios do what they want and that's bad thing?
Like...make up your mind already. It can't work both ways.

If Microsoft let 343 fester for several years because they did not want to interfere I find it incredibly unlikely that they ordered Arkane to pivot their game few months after merger. It's just bullshit.

Like. I have no doubts that Redfall was some years ago pivoted as a GAAS looter shooter. Because game stinks from that stuff and also there was a leak of development build that contained in-game store and premium currency. But more probable scenario is that Bethesda after commercial fail of Prey "ordered" Arkane to make GAAS shooter in vein of Youngblood or F76 but after merger they allowed Arkane to pivot away from that concept because they were not so desperate for GAAS money, since they were not independent anymore.

But I guess you already made up your mind. Even if it don't make sense because there are several "stories" about Microsoft being too hands off with their studios.

 

[feynoob]

TBH the issue with RedFall seems like it was on the way to being one sort of game, but then when MS stepped in forced the game to become something else and only with a two-year timeline to change it to whatever taste they were looking for to satiate "Xbox, PC and Game Pass".

There's probably an earlier build of RedFall with very different gameplay compared to what we got, that will leak some day in the future.

My friend. Put the mouse down. You don't know what you are talking buddy. You are going to Twitter route with this post.

 

[Thirty7ven]

My friend. Put the mouse down. You don't know what you are talking buddy. You are going to Twitter route with this post.

Hoeg’s brother works at Zenimax, and knowing what he knows he has no confidence in Bethesda, and he was talking about Starfield. Take that as you will. Looking back now and knowing what we know, Zenimax needed those Sony deals and support, and selling to MS or Sony was a necessity.

It just gives further context to what happened to Redfall and why Starfield looked as mid as it did on reveal and why it needed a big delay. Wouldn’t be surprised they weren’t able to provide much support to Ghostwire or Redfall because they have their hands tied with Starfield, a game that needs to be great and was in bad shape.

 

[feynoob]

Hoeg’s brother works at Zenimax, and knowing what he knows he has no confidence in Bethesda, and he was talking about Starfield. Take that as you will. Looking back now and knowing what we know, Zenimax needed those Sony deals and support, and selling to MS or Sony was a necessity.

It just gives further context to what happened to Redfall and why Starfield looked as mid as it did on reveal and why it needed a big delay. Wouldn’t be surprised they weren’t able to provide much support to Ghostwire or Redfall because they have their hands tied with Starfield, a game that needs to be great and was in bad shape.

Redfall issue predated MS purchase. They had no involvement aside of canning the PS version. They even went as far as to delay the game 1 more year. And it come out in shit state. That speaks volume on how shit arkane was with this game.

Same story with ghostwire.

Games take time. You don't make huge changes in short times, unless you cut certain features, even then it's not enough. Most problem's stems during production issues. So Bethesda recent issues can't be attributed to MS, because they weren't part of MS until 2021. That is a short time to make those changes.

Also Zenimax doesn't need Sony deals, because it wasn't going to be enough for a long term. They were having money issues and it's why they sold themselves to MS. Project like redfall, deathloop and fallout 76 was the result of the publisher having less funding and needing a quick cash grab games. But that kind of actions backfired on them considering how poor these games were.

 

[skit_data]

That’s a shame, but I presume there are reasons for it (i.e the game or the studio didn’t live up to expectations). Not much to say really, we know nothing about the game and the developer hasn’t really released anything previously.

Maybe they saw the reception of Suicide Squad and/or Redfall and realized the game being way too similar or something.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Hoeg’s brother works at Zenimax, and knowing what he knows he has no confidence in Bethesda, and he was talking about Starfield. Take that as you will. Looking back now and knowing what we know, Zenimax needed those Sony deals and support, and selling to MS or Sony was a necessity.

It just gives further context to what happened to Redfall and why Starfield looked as mid as it did on reveal and why it needed a big delay. Wouldn’t be surprised they weren’t able to provide much support to Ghostwire or Redfall because they have their hands tied with Starfield, a game that needs to be great and was in bad shape.

I've said it often. There aren't any studios out there that are equipped to be 1st party studios, today. There is a reason Nintendo is so dominant here and why/how Sony has really ratcheted up their quality to become one if not the top publisher in the business aside from Nintendo.

They're also ideally set up to be 1st party rather than 3rd party.

You look at Sega and they used to pump out WAY more games when they had Dreamcast than they do now. They divested a lot when they went 3rd party.

Zenimax was never going to be a stand in for 1st party right out of the gate. It just doesn't work like that. If Microsoft's own production was ramped up, they could have given Zenimax more time and resources around their games, and maybe the result would be different. Especially if you're going to take a game from multiplatform to single platform (plus PC). This is what they looked like with the 360 era.

Zenimax is very different from say Square Enix which probably makes the lion's share of its profit from Sony anyways.

Doom and Wolfenstein are basically dead. Yes, Doom Eternal was quite successful, but relative to the Doom series. It hasn't blown up compared to how relevant they were back in the day. Industry moved on to CoD, Halo for a time, and now these arena shooters.

 

[feynoob]

I've said it often. There aren't any studios out there that are equipped to be 1st party studios, today. There is a reason Nintendo is so dominant here and why/how Sony has really ratcheted up their quality to become one if not the top publisher in the business aside from Nintendo.

They're also ideally set up to be 1st party rather than 3rd party.

You look at Sega and they used to pump out WAY more games when they had Dreamcast than they do now. They divested a lot when they went 3rd party.

Zenimax was never going to be a stand in for 1st party right out of the gate. It just doesn't work like that. If Microsoft's own production was ramped up, they could have given Zenimax more time and resources around their games, and maybe the result would be different. Especially if you're going to take a game from multiplatform to single platform (plus PC). This is what they looked like with the 360 era.

Zenimax is very different from say Square Enix which probably makes the lion's share of its profit from Sony anyways.

Doom and Wolfenstein are basically dead. Yes, Doom Eternal was quite successful, but relative to the Doom series. It hasn't blown up compared to how relevant they were back in the day. Industry moved on to CoD, Halo for a time, and now these arena shooters.

Zenimax is for manpower.

MS can give them funding for new IPs and expand their studios.

 

[ReBurn]

It really doesn't seem like setting up a new studio making AAA games is a viable thing anymore. Not to say it never works out, but I can't count the number of "ex-[insert prolific studio] devs" studios that have started over the last 5 years with absolutely 0 output and nothing close to being delivered in the near future.

With AAA production costs hitting $100 million or more in some cases and development timelines taking 5 years or more independent studios can't afford to make games without a benefactor paying the bills. It's not enough to make it on the reputation of the studio you just split from.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Zenimax is for manpower.

MS can give them funding for new IPs and expand their studios.

What I'm saying is that's not really 1st party level manpower.

They can be built around, but they don't really have a single system seller, which shouldn't be confused with high selling games.

There are smaller companies that would have been better suited as first-party studios.

A game like WWE 2K, sells a lot of copies. It doesn't sell systems. Same with Madden and most sports games. Even MLB The Show before it was multiplatform, didn't sell systems.

Do you know what sells systems for Sony? Spider-Man, God of War, and Uncharted. That's only 3 franchises, one of which they don't even own.

T2 is really the only other publisher putting out modern system sellers, red dead and GTA. Could maybe include CDPR but they need way more support at this level. A CDPR with support studios would absolutely put out system sellers.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

It really doesn't seem like setting up a new studio making AAA games is a viable thing anymore. Not to say it never works out, but I can't count the number of "ex-[insert prolific studio] devs" studios that have started over the last 5 years with absolutely 0 output and nothing close to being delivered in the near future.

It's not common, but it isn't unheard of either. COVID certainly hasn't helped.

 

[feynoob]

What I'm saying is that's not really 1st party level manpower.

They can be built around, but they don't really have a single system seller, which shouldn't be confused with high selling games.

There are smaller companies that would have been better suited as first-party studios.

A game like WWE 2K, sells a lot of copies. It doesn't sell systems. Same with Madden and most sports games. Even MLB The Show before it was multiplatform, didn't sell systems.

Do you know what sells systems for Sony? Spider-Man, God of War, and Uncharted. That's only 3 franchises, one of which they don't even own.

T2 is really the only other publisher putting out modern system sellers, red dead and GTA. Could maybe include CDPR but they need way more support at this level. A CDPR with support studios would absolutely put out system sellers.

MS doesn't need a system seller. Gamepass is the system seller for them.
Just provide content for that. No need to copy Sony or Nintendo.

 

[DeepEnigma]

MS doesn't need a system seller. Gamepass is the system seller for them.
Just provide content for that. No need to copy Sony or Nintendo.

 

[feynoob]

Ask Phil friend.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

MS doesn't need a system seller. Gamepass is the system seller for them.
Just provide content for that. No need to copy Sony or Nintendo.

GamePass isn't sustainable and that's something we're going to see as a reality in the next few years.

 

[Daneel Elijah]

Even for you, this is ludicrous. Lmao

MS is being raked over the coals for being hands-off, and you’re here pushing a silly theory that they pivoted the game 3 years after development started and one year to planned release.

Lol @ ‘two year timeline’. The game was targeted at a 2022 release date as near as E3 2021. At least try to make these things pass basic plausibility tests.

So much horse shit in this post.

You're becoming TheLastWord, just without the continuous dots.

Fucking embarrassing.

Worst take on GAF I've seen all year so far.
You deserve an award for this beauty.

Easy to insult/demean someone but harder to talk about what is said. We know that arkane got from doing single player polished immersive sims to a open world always online game. We know that the game lost/ will loose the always online part by xbox order. If the game has a marketplace planed that was canned by xbox, what ticc girls said is correct. And it is a easy speculation to say.

My friend. Put the mouse down. You don't know what you are talking buddy. You are going to Twitter route with this post.

You and another have good points so I need another post to answer them.

 

[Killer8]

I'm sorry but this news paired with the studio's mantra is too funny.

 

[feynoob]

GamePass isn't sustainable and that's something we're going to see as a reality in the next few years.

It's unsustainable for you and with your limited in information.
I am not going to have this debate again.

 

[feynoob]

I'm sorry but this news paired with the studio's mantra is too funny.

You can say that they deviated from their original path.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

It's unsustainable for you and with your limited in information.
I am not going to have this debate again.

I mean there isn't really a debate to be had.

What do we know

• Microsoft doesn't reveal the operating income if any of Xbox or GamePass.
• Microsoft has to subsidize the cost of the games on GamePass otherwise studios would not put their games there
• Xbox console sales have essentially flatlined in 2023 meaning they aren't going to hit any sort of growth metrics on 2023-4 either
• Depending on how you look at it the entire sale of Bethesda should go on the books as a GamePass cost as well as the operating cost of running Bethesda
• Bethesda has already had layoffs this year to reduce their operating costs in addition to 343 and other Microsoft studios

I mean if you can acknowledge all of that and STILL think GamePass is sustainable in the long run, I wish you the best

 

[Sanepar]

Yeah they are done. Probably the end of studio.

 

[Daneel Elijah]

So...the narrative is that Microsoft interferes with studios too much and that's bad thing or they are letting studios do what they want and that's bad thing?
Like...make up your mind already. It can't work both ways.

If Microsoft let 343 fester for several years because they did not want to interfere I find it incredibly unlikely that they ordered Arkane to pivot their game few months after merger. It's just bullshit.

Like. I have no doubts that Redfall was some years ago pivoted as a GAAS looter shooter. Because game stinks from that stuff and also there was a leak of development build that contained in-game store and premium currency. But more probable scenario is that Bethesda after commercial fail of Prey "ordered" Arkane to make GAAS shooter in vein of Youngblood or F76 but after merger they allowed Arkane to pivot away from that concept because they were not so desperate for GAAS money, since they were not independent anymore.

But I guess you already made up your mind. Even if it don't make sense because there are several "stories" about Microsoft being too hands off with their studios.

Why does it have to always be a "narrative"? And you admited yourself that a in game store was a possibility. So xbox take control of Bethesda, stop a potential PS5 version, says no more market place, and leave? This is already a lot of changes. And remember that Arkane is still under Bethesda. And Bethesda is under Xbox. So Xbox can just ask Bethesda a few things like make sure to market the game well, and to have it by this date please. And they would be on Arkane back for it. This is speculation of course. Being hands off can be many things. Sony was hands off when they let the TLOU2 story be as it was. They still followed closely the game completion, helped when it was necessary and delayed it when needed. Phil could have said that he would like a 4k30 fps for Series X and 1440p for Series S, as a question. And it would be taken as a order for example. Another speculation. I do not say that it was the case by the way. They let 343 "fester" but they have acted since then.

Redfall issue predated MS purchase. They had no involvement aside of canning the PS version. They even went as far as to delay the game 1 more year. And it come out in shit state. That speaks volume on how shit arkane was with this game.

Same story with ghostwire.

Games take time. You don't make huge changes in short times, unless you cut certain features, even then it's not enough. Most problem's stems during production issues. So Bethesda recent issues can't be attributed to MS, because they weren't part of MS until 2021. That is a short time to make those changes.

Also Zenimax doesn't need Sony deals, because it wasn't going to be enough for a long term. They were having money issues and it's why they sold themselves to MS. Project like redfall, deathloop and fallout 76 was the result of the publisher having less funding and needing a quick cash grab games. But that kind of actions backfired on them considering how poor these games were.

Lot of good points here. But we are talking about Redfall in particular here. What happened before Xbox got in control of the game is naturally not their responsibility. When they got into it they choose among other things to stop the always online requirement. If there was a in game store and it was canned on Xbox orders, that is a big change. Not to say that this is MS fault only of course. But they got into it midway. And the impetus was a bad one( make a GAAS game to make money it seems) made from Bethesda. When they got in control they naturally had a talk with Arkane about it. And may have been asked what they wanted at the time. Even if the answer was "do as you wish", this is a change too. So a new impetus was probably given. Made a good game fast. Do the best you can with what you have. Or whatever else. If you see what I mean by that.

 

[feynoob]

Lot of good points here. But we are talking about Redfall in particular here. What happened before Xbox got in control of the game is naturally not their responsibility. When they got into it they choose among other things to stop the always online requirement. If there was a in game store and it was canned on Xbox orders, that is a big change. Not to say that this is MS fault only of course. But they got into it midway. And the impetus was a bad one( make a GAAS game to make money it seems) made from Bethesda. When they got in control they naturally had a talk with Arkane about it. And may have been asked what they wanted at the time. Even if the answer was "do as you wish", this is a change too. So a new impetus was probably given. Made a good game fast. Do the best you can with what you have. Or whatever else. If you see what I mean by that.

The concerning part is the release date before the delay.
If the game is shit in this state, imagine it's state during that time.

 

[Perrott]

I tried Googling this but couldn't find anything. I see they're only hiring for the two games you listed (multiplayer action, dark narrative) right now. As of April 2022 and June 2022 they were hiring for a "multiplayer shooter".

Seems like it could be cancelled or it's near completion? What's your source for it being cancelled?

Job listings for that particular project stopped popping up on Firesprite's careers page about a year ago. That's not a good signal, as Deviation themselves also stopped looking for new employees in the weeks and months leading up to this week's mass layoffs, likely following a negative project review from PS Studios.

I don't think Firesprite's action shooter being near completion would be a reason to stop hiring talent for that project, as work on a live-service title never stops on launch day but the exact opposite actually.

 

[Daneel Elijah]

The concerning part is the release date before the delay.
If the game is shit in this state, imagine it's state during that time.

Yeah. I do not dare to imagine it. And to make it worse Redfall would probably not have been on Gamepass too.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Job listings for that particular project stopped popping up on Firesprite's careers page about a year ago. That's not a good signal, as Deviation themselves also stopped looking for new employees in the weeks and months leading up to this week's mass layoffs, likely following a negative project review from PS Studios.

I don't think Firesprite's action shooter being near completion would be a reason to stop hiring talent for that project, as work on a live-service title never stops on launch day but the exact opposite actually.

You make me sad with your reasonable post.

 

[Dane]

So...the narrative is that Microsoft interferes with studios too much and that's bad thing or they are letting studios do what they want and that's bad thing?
Like...make up your mind already. It can't work both ways.

If Microsoft let 343 fester for several years because they did not want to interfere I find it incredibly unlikely that they ordered Arkane to pivot their game few months after merger. It's just bullshit.

Like. I have no doubts that Redfall was some years ago pivoted as a GAAS looter shooter. Because game stinks from that stuff and also there was a leak of development build that contained in-game store and premium currency. But more probable scenario is that Bethesda after commercial fail of Prey "ordered" Arkane to make GAAS shooter in vein of Youngblood or F76 but after merger they allowed Arkane to pivot away from that concept because they were not so desperate for GAAS money, since they were not independent anymore.

But I guess you already made up your mind. Even if it don't make sense because there are several "stories" about Microsoft being too hands off with their studios.

Because this is what happened exactly after their Save Player One campaign flopped, they pushed all studios except for BGS Maryland and Tango to make GAAS games.

 

[Shi11]

Still annual turnover cuts right guys ?

 

[Godot25]

So xbox take control of Bethesda, stop a potential PS5 version, says no more market place, and leave?

And why exactly would Microsoft have a problem with GAAS focus of Redfall with in game store? Also. It directly contradicts all reports about how Microsoft handles their relationships with XGS (and therefore Bethesda). So if you want to believe this version of story then it's your choice. I find it incredibly unlikely that pivot from GAAS came directly from Microsoft.

 

[Perrott]

Yep, you're absolutely right. Since Sony's releasing "banger AAA GOTY contenders", they are justifiably excused to lay off who ever they want. Only developers that release subpar games, they aren't excused to lay off (likely incompetent) people. /s

Great logic you have there.

Over the past three years, Sony has released The Last Of Us Part II, Ghost of Tsushima, Demon's Souls, Marvel's Spider-Man: Miles Morales, Sackboy: A Big Adventure, Returnal, Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart, Horizon: Forbidden West, Gran Turismo 7, The Last Of Us Part I, God of War: Ragnarok and Horizon: Call of the Mountain. All of them absolutely excellent AAA games.

So believe me when I tell you that if they deemed the Concrete Genie studio and its current project non-essential for their upcoming lineup and the future of the PlayStation Studios organization, then its probably for the best. Same in the case of Deviation's project: having Sony acquired two out of their three announced partnerships in the live-service space, that must tell you that they are very happy with Haven and Firewalk's titles and disappointed with Deviation's, hence why they have pulled the plug on their project.

When you are doing great and do some restructuring, that's called optimizing your resources

When you are doing like Microsoft - having trouble releasing big AAA games, managing your talent and projects (countless Xbox titles have underwent project reboots), and always having to tell your costumers that "next year will be the one, this time for real" - and on top of that you see stories of people being laid off and managers quitting their roles, then that's why I'd call business mismanagement and a big fucking mess.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Over the past three years, Sony has released The Last Of Us Part II, Ghost of Tsushima, Demon's Souls, Marvel's Spider-Man: Miles Morales, Sackboy: A Big Adventure, Returnal, Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart, Horizon: Forbidden West, Gran Turismo 7, The Last Of Us Part I, God of War: Ragnarok and Horizon: Call of the Mountain. All of them absolutely excellent AAA games.

So believe me when I tell you that if they deemed the Concrete Genie studio and its current project non-essential for their upcoming lineup and the future of the PlayStation Studios organization, then its probably for the best. Same in the case of Deviation's project: having Sony acquired two out of their three announced partnerships in the live-service space, that must tell you that they are very happy with Haven and Firewalk's titles and disappointed with Deviation's, hence why they have pulled the plug on their project.

When you are doing great and do some restructuring, that's called optimizing your resources

When you are doing like Microsoft - having trouble releasing big AAA games, managing your talent and projects (countless Xbox titles have underwent project reboots), and always having to tell your costumers that "next year will be the one, this time for real" - and on top of that you see stories of people being laid off and managers quitting their roles, then that's why I'd call business mismanagement and a big fucking mess.

Imagine the absolute chasm between

a) we want to buy your studio and invest more into you
b) we no longer want to fund your project

Like there is a scenario here more like Quantum Dream where Sony says, okay, we'll publish this and market this but afterward, our relationship is over. Same with Ready at Dawn with the Order 1886 and Supermassive Games.

Sony's only really big miss has probably been FromSoftware and I think they'll rectify that by the end of the fiscal year.

 

[Daneel Elijah]

And why exactly would Microsoft have a problem with GAAS focus of Redfall with in game store? Also. It directly contradicts all reports about how Microsoft handles their relationships with XGS (and therefore Bethesda). So if you want to believe this version of story then it's your choice. I find it incredibly unlikely that pivot from GAAS came directly from Microsoft.

I looked a little and fond a Eurogamer interwiew with Harwey Smith. They had this part in it, relevant to the discussion:

Cut content


Early ideas included making safe zones third-person, akin to Destiny's Tower, so players could show off their cosmetic appearances.

Speaking of cosmetics, Smith said he'd fended off the suggestion of an in-game store, something floated by execs.

"Early on, there was a little pressure here and there. You know, executives, always [say] 'What if there was a store?' and I was like, 'There's no store, there's no microtransactions'. There was pushback and a back and forth."

If there were no store planned when Xbox got in control, then yes they probably had really few occasions to "flip the table" like it can often happen in game dev. I stand corrected. But it was a easy error to make. No need to be mean to thicc_girls_are_teh_best.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I'm sorry but this news paired with the studio's mantra is too funny.

I love how so many tech and gaming companies spend so much time and money on ego boosting offices when so many of them make junk. Every company I've worked at are giant established companies that make billions using normal offices. And nobody cares. Everyone just goes to work, does their job and goes home. Rinse and repeat. Sure, do some people want the facility manager to order them a new office chair, since they are using a tattered one from 2008? Ok sure. But let's not go ape shit focusing on non-priorities.

If companies need to do this to attract workers and keep them motivated, you got hiring and employee issues. You arent focusing on people who care about doing a job. You are focusing too much on people who want ping pong, partying and pandering.

 

[Eotheod]

I mean, deviation = departing, nobody? Ok then...

That...doesn't mean departing just so you know. To deviate is to change direction or go against the grain. I know what you were trying to say, but unfortunately it doesn't work with that word.

Regaesing the news, it is unfortunate to see these recent studios being shutdown as it means further fracturing of talent. However in some more positive outlooks it does mean that talent can be picked up in other studios.

Hopefully this doesn't start becoming a trend for Sony or other big publishers/console makers, as it's obvious games are taking far longer then the usual development time. Such cuts could have short term results but long term impacts.

 

[AlteredForms]

Regaesing the news,

You tried to educate me and made this blunder? Take this "L" and wear it with shame.

 

[DenchDeckard]

TBH both of those sound more to my tastes than the action shooter, so it's not a big loss in that regard.



Yep, astute conclusion. Interesting it does also seem to signal they're scaling back on the amount of live-service games. Maybe instead of 10-12 they are looking to start with 3-5 and make sure they're really good and have the financial support behind them to expand and adjust depending on how they do in the market.



TBH the issue with RedFall seems like it was on the way to being one sort of game, but then when MS stepped in forced the game to become something else and only with a two-year timeline to change it to whatever taste they were looking for to satiate "Xbox, PC and Game Pass".

There's probably an earlier build of RedFall with very different gameplay compared to what we got, that will leak some day in the future.

This is a wild level of fanfiction when all fingers point to MS being TOO hands off with Bethesda and this being the wake up call to give them the realisation that they need to kick Bethesda into shape.

But, you do you. Lol

 

[AlteredForms]

TBH both of those sound more to my tastes than the action shooter, so it's not a big loss in that regard.

Off topic. That's Chun-Li in the avatar right? Love me some Asian persuasion.

 

[MasterCornholio]

This is a wild level of fanfiction when all fingers point to MS being TOO hands off with Bethesda and this being the wake up call to give them the realisation that they need to kick Bethesda into shape.

But, you do you. Lol

Maybe Microsoft is putting pressure on devs due to needing to feed gamepass on a regular basis. I don't think they forced the devs to change Redfall so it would suit gamepass better.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Maybe Microsoft is putting pressure on devs due to needing to feed gamepass on a regular basis. I don't think they forced the devs to change Redfall so it would suit gamepass better.

Not any pressure at all from MS to make the game gaas, it was all Bethesda and its pretty obvious.

I expect Ms to be more hands on now with Bethesda after this shit show.

I think microsofts biggest problem is they haven't been applying pressure to their studios. I'm hoping that changes.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Not any pressure at all from MS to make the game gaas, it was all Bethesda and its pretty obvious.

I expect Ms to be more hands on now with Bethesda after this shit show.

I think microsofts biggest problem is they haven't been applying pressure to their studios. I'm hoping that changes.

Agreed but Microsoft needs to fuel gamepass and that can put pressure on devs. Although in this case Arkane did have enough time to make this.

If anything it's probably the wrong type of pressure they are putting on devs.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Agreed but Microsoft needs to fuel gamepass and that can put pressure on devs. Although in this case Arkane did have enough time to make this.

If anything it's probably the wrong type of pressure they are putting on devs.

The whole point is, they haven't been ousting pressure at all. Maybe on their own established devs they have but Bethesda has had free reign since purchase and that needs to change

I'm hoping for a more stricter MS. This is a business and they have a responsibility to deliver good products to their customers which this friendly approach hasn't helped.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

The whole point is, they haven't been ousting pressure at all. Maybe on their own established devs they have but Bethesda has had free reign since purchase and that needs to change

I'm hoping for a more stricter MS. This is a business and they have a responsibility to deliver good products to their customers which this friendly approach hasn't helped.

I typically skew to management as I believe as long as people have enough time and budget to do something at a company, they should have enough responsibility to do a good job without bosses babysitting them like 8 year olds. Everyone is an adult.

BUT, if a lot of MS gaming issues are due to management either not knowing what they are doing, unreasonable resources to do the job, or they are too hands off assuming the inmates can run the asylum then management needs to shape up and get things in line.

 

[DenchDeckard]

I typically skew to management as I believe as long as people have enough time and budget to do something at a company, they should have enough responsibility to do a good job without bosses babysitting them like 8 year olds. Everyone is an adult.

BUT, if a lot of MS gaming issues are due to management either not knowing what they are doing, unreasonable resources to do the job, or they are too hands off assuming the inmates can run the asylum then management needs to shape up and get things in line.

I can understand what happened with Bethesda...they had green lit some games and MS probably made the decision to be hands off. It would look wild and cause some serious shit if MS bought them and started cancelling games like redfall. It would be all over the press and gamers with no knowledge of what condition redfall was in would be all over the internet after microsofts blood.

" Can you believe they cancelled arkanes rumoured vampire game? Fucking MS I bet it would have been amazing"

For all the stuff MS does wrong I think they played this as well as they could. They let them release the games they wanted and now they can say "look redfall was shit, we are going to manage these projects a little stricter going forward, you've had your chance."

Now my major issue is how redfall got the attention and hi fi rush was put out as a shadow drop...but anyway.

 

[MasterCornholio]

I can understand what happened with Bethesda...they had green lit some games and MS probably made the decision to be hands off. It would look wild and cause some serious shit if MS bought them and started cancelling games like redfall. It would be all over the press and gamers with no knowledge of what condition redfall was in would be all over the internet after microsofts blood.

" Can you believe they cancelled arkanes rumoured vampire game? Fucking MS I bet it would have been amazing"

For all the stuff MS does wrong I think they played this as well as they could. They let them release the games they wanted and now they can say "look redfall was shit, we are going to manage these projects a little stricter going forward, you've had your chance."

Now my major issue is how redfall got the attention and hi fi rush was put out as a shadow drop...but anyway.

That Shadowdrop didn't seem like something Bethesda would do.

 

[Tams]

Man I'm huge sony fun
But sometimes I hate them when they do this
I'm still angry when they closed studio liverpool and Sony Japan

Yeah, but often if this isn't done, you end up with a Redfall...

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Off topic. That's Chun-Li in the avatar right? Love me some Asian persuasion.

Yep, it's of a mod tho. The modders have been QUICK on this game, can't wait to see more

This is a wild level of fanfiction when all fingers point to MS being TOO hands off with Bethesda and this being the wake up call to give them the realisation that they need to kick Bethesda into shape.

But, you do you. Lol

They were apparently hands-on enough to tell the team to redirect their vision, but hands-off enough to not enforce quality control or give them the necessary time & funding.

If it sounds weird, well that is basically Xbox management in a nutshell.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I'm sorry but this news paired with the studio's mantra is too funny.

Finally a pic of Deviation Games's office with people actually working.... of wait that guy in the back looks like in the cafe or rec room.

 

[Dr.Morris79]

Hope the effected land on their feet. Losing a job is never fun and I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

You would if they was doing a shit job for you.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Damn..I remember when this was the most promising team to make a COD rival for Sony.
Welp.

 

[abacab driver]

Yeah, but often if this isn't done, you end up with a Redfall...

Two completely different scenarios.

Plus, a misstep on a new IP from a proven, talented team is better than nothing at all.
That's why there won't be any mass layoffs there like Deviation..nor will they be "absorbed" into another studio like Luminous.