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DF "editorial line" is notoriously Xbox/MS "friendly" but sure just let's point our finger only against the Sony fans.

Come on. We should be way past this BS by now.

 

[winjer]

Thanks for the link, I just read it. Dictator is either missing my point or intentionally stating the incorrect assumption. I clearly state that the game is CPU bound and mostly cache/data related and his comment is focussing on the SSD and memory allocation/size. When I clearly state in the video the size of assets and throughput is NOT the issue here, missed data and stalling is.

Schools out it seems lol

Have you found why your 2700X and 3600 system is underperforming so badly?

 

[ethomaz]

Come on. We should be way past this BS by now.

It is not BS at all.

Richard, Tom and Alex are very Xbox friendly to the point to even use marketing works for Xbox.

Nothing changed there since last gen.

 

[assurdum]

But in what way are they xbox fans ? Did they not have ps4 win almost every comparison in the last 8 years ? Did they not have PS5 as the winner when that was the case ? What are they doing specifically about xbox that gives the idea that they're leaning particularly on xbox ?

Can you mention to me a single time when DF they ever talked about Geometry Engine or the cache scrubbers on ps5 hardware? Just a single time. They reported practically everything about the XSX hardware specs but for "reasons" they never talk about the particularity of GE or other customisation on ps5. Why don't ask for more feedback by Sony in case they know nothing? We know practically everything about VRS, SFS, INT4/8, ML on XSX but hearing them ps5 it's just about his SSD speed and nothing more. Where is all their enthusiasm for new console tech when ps5 is involved? Just an example.

 

[DukeNukem00]

Can you mentuon to me a single time when DF they ever talked about Geometry Engine or the cache scrubbers on ps5? Just a single time. They listed practically everything about XSX specs but why they never talked about the particularity of GE on ps5. Never a single time. When don't ask from feedback by Sony? We know everything about VRS, SFS, InT4 but the only thing I heard about them it's just SSD.

Thats it ? You perceive as not talking about sony enough ? Microsoft even invited them back at series x breakdown, to have hand on with it. Sony presented a sterile video with one of their employees. They watched that video as everyone of us. Maybe these two companies just have a different PR aproach.

Are their reports not accurate ? Are they not presented as they are ? Do they twist themselves in order to make microsoft better ? I think not. In contrast, nxgamer ignored Hitman 3 where Series X had multiple advantages over ps5, but had the time to make 4 or 5 videos about Dirt 5 where he was pushing ps5 as better. I dont see DF having some fetish for either company, while nxgamer's entire history is both normal people and profesionalls finding mistakes in virtually every single video he ever makes

 

[Neo_game]

I don't understand why this poorly optimized tech demo is being taken seriously. PC is not going to perform this bad, the tech demo was meant for consoles and the console CPU is at best on par with R5 3600. So IMO whatever the results of this demo is probably irrelevant. May be for devs who can learn something from it ? It is highly unlikely we are going to get 1080P 30fps games this gen on console anyways. I personally ignore any tech demo or in engine stuff anyways

 

[sircaw]

Thanks for the link, I just read it. Dictator is either missing my point or intentionally stating the incorrect assumption. I clearly state that the game is CPU bound and mostly cache/data related and his comment is focussing on the SSD and memory allocation/size. When I clearly state in the video the size of assets and throughput is NOT the issue here, missed data and stalling is.

Schools out it seems lol

being of a certain age, old bastard like me, you should enjoy this

 

[assurdum]

Thats it ? You perceive as not talking about sony enough ? Microsoft even invited them back at series x breakdown, to have hand on with it. Sony presented a sterile video with one of their employees. They watched that video as everyone of us. Maybe these two companies just have a different PR aproach.

Are their reports not accurate ? Are they not presented as they are ? Do they twist themselves in order to make microsoft better ? I think not. In contrast, nxgamer ignored Hitman 3 where Series X had multiple advantages over ps5, but had the time to make 4 or 5 videos about Dirt 5 where he was pushing ps5 as better. I dont see DF having some fetish for either company, while nxgamer's entire history is both normal people and profesionalls finding mistakes in virtually every single video he ever makes

So you think in case DF ask to more details about GE and cache scrubbers, Sony will close the doors to them? And they talk more of XBox because MS invite them? Are you really so naive? If you see NXG so Sony sided you should perceive even more easily the same for DF and Xbox brand imo. But we can talk about their lasted claim where they said will never ever counted native pixels because useless and how it's still worthy when a particular brand show it's brute force over the other hardware.

 

[kyliethicc]

Meanwhile … Knack 2 is a locked 60 Hz on PS5

 

[yamaci17]

I don't understand why this poorly optimized tech demo is being taken seriously. PC is not going to perform this bad, the tech demo was meant for consoles and the console CPU is at best on par with R5 3600. So IMO whatever the results of this demo is probably irrelevant. May be for devs who can learn something from it ? It is highly unlikely we are going to get 1080P 30fps games this gen on console anyways. I personally ignore any tech demo or in engine stuff anyways

actually even the 2700 can match and outperform the consoles as evidenced by me (at 3.7 ghz);



a properly configured 3600 along with cheap ballistix kits clocked at 3600 cl16 at 1.4v should easily get 40+ fps at all times

there's a huge flaw in his video and his 2700x and 3600 performs way worse than they should. either he runs the demo in editor, or there are some stuff that hammers the CPU on his background or a specific problem with his own cooked build

his 2700x for some mythical reason performs 2 times worse than mine. he runs between 13-15 fps mine runs between 26-30

 

[DukeNukem00]

So you think in case DF ask to more details about GE and cache scrubbers, Sony will close the doors to them? And they talk more of XBox because MS invite them? Are you really so naive? If you see NXG so sided you should perceive easily the same for DF for XSX imo.

But how does the microsoft supposed bias manifest itself ? Even if such bias were true, if the videos are not affected who cares ? In nxgamers case, he misrepresents data and bullshits in his videos to make sony always come on top. Thats intentional deceit. The guy cant even represent his video card right, he either claims its OCd so its almost like a 2070Super or he makes sure to put OC in his videos. A normal person would simply say the actual name of the card, GF 2070 instead of spending energy to make it seem as something its not, so his sony results apear more impressive

 

[assurdum]

But how does the microsoft supposed bias manifest itself ? Even if such bias were true, if the videos are not affected who cares ? In nxgamers case, he misrepresents data and bullshits in his videos to make sony always come on top. Thats intentional deceit. The guy cant even represent his video card right, he either claims its OCd so its almost like a 2070Super or he makes sure to put OC in his videos. A normal person would simply say the actual name of the card, GF 2070 instead of spending energy to make it seem as something its not, so his sony results apear more impressive

Of course they are. There are some comparison where XSX had some edge in performance over the ps5 for some bug (I don't remind exactly) but hardly you heard them report it and they lean more to the less bruteforce hardware "excuse". If the reverse happened, they urge to contact the developers, it's almost comical; I need to know why they never felt the urgency to contact the developers when a ps5 port it's in a bad state.
Let's not forget for them ps5 had no hardware raytracing, CPU/GPU smartshift would have affected ps5 performance significantly and so on. How you can say their sided point of views not affect their job in a bad way?

 

[nominedomine]

It is not BS at all.

Richard, Tom and Alex are very Xbox friendly to the point to even use marketing works for Xbox.

Nothing changed there since last gen.

They had access to the Series S months in advance (when it wasn't even announced) and were flown there to see it. After that there is just no way they can be seen as a neutral party, too close of a relationship. Alex in particular comes of as an unashamed PC fanboy.

It doesn't mean I dislike all their content or anything but they made their choice of getting too close to MS to the point of losing credibility when it comes to talking about both consoles. It does seem like they try to frame everything the way MS would want it to be framed (the Series S clearly underperforming is never disappointing, the PS5 having superior performance to the Series X is always surprising even when it has already happened countless times).

 

[MightySquirrel]

They had access to the Series S months in advance (when it wasn't even announced) and were flown there to see it. After that there is just no way they can be seen as a neutral party, too close of a relationship.

You think DF would have refused to go to an exclusive sony ps5 event?

 

[JTCx]

They had access to the Series S months in advance (when it wasn't even announced) and were flown there to see it. After that there is just no way they can be seen as a neutral party, too close of a relationship. Alex in particular comes of as an unashamed PC fanboy.

It doesn't mean I dislike all their content or anything but they made their choice of getting too close to MS to the point of losing credibility when it comes to talking about both consoles. It does seem like they try to frame everything the way MS would want it to be framed (the Series S underperforming is never disappointing, the PS5 having superior performance to the Series X is always surprising even when it has already happened countless times).

Theres also that stupidass video that flunky put out to excuse Halo Infinite's "lighting" during the reveal.

 

[nominedomine]

You think DF would have refused to go to an exclusive sony ps5 event?

If they cared about their reputation they should've. They made their choice, views over any illusion of neutrality. There's an automatic bias that comes from accepting this sort of co-promotion.

And as I said before, the Alex guy can't even hide it. It is what it is, it makes no sense to pretend that everyone doesn't see it. They completely changed their tone from when they were doing PS4 Pro vs Xbox One X, they were making no excuses for the PS4 Pro.
If this guy was minimally consistent he would naturally think the Series S is utter shit. But no, he'll shit on and downplay the more powerful consoles for not being as powerful as a PC while leaving the Series S untouched.

If Hardware Nexus starts getting invited to Intel's headquarters to get exclusive hand-on on their new unannounced CPUs months in advance, then his channel would lose all credibility. That's pretty much what happened to DF.

What's even worse is that during that period DF was producing videos fake speculating on hardware they already knew about months in advance. There's no getting out of it.

John should leave DF as soon as possible and do his own thing since he is the that keeps the other in check on streams.

 

[NXGamer]

actually even the 2700 can match and outperform the consoles as evidenced by me (at 3.7 ghz);



a properly configured 3600 along with cheap ballistix kits clocked at 3600 cl16 at 1.4v should easily get 40+ fps at all times

there's a huge flaw in his video and his 2700x and 3600 performs way worse than they should. either he runs the demo in editor, or there are some stuff that hammers the CPU on his background or a specific problem with his own cooked build

his 2700x for some mythical reason performs 2 times worse than mine. he runs between 13-15 fps mine runs between 26-30

What spec is your RAM and MOBO here? also in your video it is under 27 often and drops to 16 at points also.

In my video it only gets to 16-18 when driving fast and is 24 when at the start, part of the city are better than others also.

Lastly what visual settings do you have on this build, IQ looks sub 1080 here but YT is not helping that?

 

[yamaci17]

What spec is your RAM and MOBO here? also in your video it is under 27 often and drops to 16 at points also.

In my video it only gets to 16-18 when driving fast and is 24 when at the start, part of the city are better than others also.

Lastly what visual settings do you have on this build, IQ looks sub 1080 here but YT is not helping that?

stock 3000 cl15 (for that video specifically). b450.. all settings at 3. video is recoded at low bitrate, probably why it looks and wonky. its not the point of the video

you literally get 25 fps at the start of the demo with your 3600

i literally get 32 fps at the start of the demo with my 2700x (38 fps with 3400 cl14 which is easily achievable)

final note: all my videos, proofs, screenshots are taken with %100 crowd/car/parked car density.

things to consider here:

demo does not scale properly with 8 cores/16 threads
3600 has two times more cache than 2700x
3600 is enormously faster in terms of IPC than 2700x
3600 just destroys 2700x in terms of cross CCX latency which is a big factor for the downfall of zen/zen+ CPUs
as alex proved, going from 10 cores to 5 cores barely make any difference. naturally so, it can be easily said that 2700x's extra cores have no effect in this comparison. as a matter of fact, if you want to focus on this possibility, i can reitarate this test by disabling 2 cores and I'd still get the same performance

UNDER no circumstance, 2700x should outperform the 3600. even if a game perfectly scales across 8 cores, 16 threads, 3600 would still beat the 2700x just by its sheer IPC deficit

 

[Three]

Sony warriors not understanding an explanation with evidence of how poorly multi threaded UE5 is? Shocking.

Right, "sony warriors" . What would they gain from it considering that the CPU is clocked lower? Such a stupid thing to say from an xbox warrior.

It's the idea that everything can be done asynchronously and that UE5 is "odd" or "unoptimised" or "single threaded" when pretty much most current RT capable engines would behave the same that you are not understanding. If Alex knew anything too what he should actually check is higher performance memory. It doesn't matter how many damn cores you have in most engines. Are you one of those people who buy a threadripper expecting massive gains in your games too?

 

[assurdum]

Right, "sony warriors" . What would they gain from it considering that the CPU is clocked lower? Such a stupid thing to say from an xbox warrior.

It's the idea that everything can be done asynchronously and that UE5 is "wierd" or "unoptimised" or "single threaded" when pretty much most current RT capable engines would behave the same that you are not understanding. If Alex knew anything too what he should actually check is higher performance memory. It doesn't matter how many damn cores you have in most engines. Are you one of those people who buy a threadripper expecting massive gains in your games too?

Sometimes I have big problems to interpret Alex and his level of tech knowledge. I'm not surely an expert but it's not the first time I see him go through a brilliant tech explanation to an absurd tech conclusion. I really can't have a clear picture of his knowledge.

 

[VFXVeteran]

You've never actually developed a game in your entire life, nor have you demonstrated any credible knowledge on gaming hardware architecture or how games utilise them.

I have worked on realtime game loops for 5yrs now at Lockheed Martin on their missile simulation programs.

Your comment is ridiculous and no real programmer would ever disjoin film graphics (the science of graphics) with realtime graphics programming. It's like saying one of my buddies that worked at Disney and now works at Nvidia on their OptX program has no validity to the knowing what goes on in a realtime graphics pipeline.

I won't even read the rest of your post as I will assume it's just trolling. You can think I have no credible knowledge all you want, but I get plenty of invites from game companies to join their graphics team. They must be stupid.

 

[NXGamer]

Have you found why your 2700X and 3600 system is underperforming so badly?

Yes, the main cost is the Nanite materials, readbacks and Lumen lighting as I stated in the video, see below from the engine tools



Also location in city helps, some sections I can get 34-36fps.

 

[NXGamer]

stock 3000 cl15 (for that video specifically). b450.. all settings at 3. video is recoded at low bitrate, probably why it looks and wonky. its not the point of the video

you literally get 25 fps at the start of the demo with your 3600

i literally get 32 fps at the start of the demo with my 2700x (38 fps with 3400 cl14 which is easily achievable)

final note: all my videos, proofs, screenshots are taken with %100 crowd/car/parked car density.

things to consider here:

demo does not scale properly with 8 cores/16 threads
3600 has two times more cache than 2700x
3600 is enormously faster in terms of IPC than 2700x
3600 just destroys 2700x in terms of cross CCX latency which is a big factor for the downfall of zen/zen+ CPUs
as alex proved, going from 10 cores to 5 cores barely make any difference. naturally so, it can be easily said that 2700x's extra cores have no effect in this comparison. as a matter of fact, if you want to focus on this possibility, i can reitarate this test by disabling 2 cores and I'd still get the same performance

UNDER no circumstance, 2700x should outperform the 3600. even if a game perfectly scales across 8 cores, 16 threads, 3600 would still beat the 2700x just by its sheer IPC deficit

Turn on stats and check the highest cost of render here and post that?

 

[yamaci17]

what stats?

 

[kyliethicc]

I have worked on realtime game loops for 5yrs now at Lockheed Martin on their missile simulation programs.

Your comment is ridiculous and no real programmer would ever disjoin film graphics (the science of graphics) with realtime graphics programming. It's like saying one of my buddies that worked at Disney and now works at Nvidia on their OptX program has no validity to the knowing what goes on in a realtime graphics pipeline.

I won't even read the rest of your post as I will assume it's just trolling. You can think I have no credible knowledge all you want, but I get plenty of invites from game companies to join their graphics team. They must be stupid.

 

[TheAssist]

Finally a reason for everyone to upgrade from their 2500k I see.

 

[TheRedRiders]

I have worked on realtime game loops for 5yrs now at Lockheed Martin on their missile simulation programs.

This makes it all the more curious on your lack of knowledge on gaming hardware architecture and especially SSD. Technology firms rely on bleeding edge technology and hardware, especially when it comes to creating visualisations, in fact NASA have been creating fluid dynamic simulations which each eat up terabytes of data per second and for years they were bottlenecked by slow storage architectures like hard disk drives.

With the recent innovations in SSD and DirectStorage, they're now able to push the GPU's further because data is being fed more efficiently into their super computers from the SSD thanks to DirectStorage. It's dramatically increased the quality of visuals and performance of those visualisations. They even discuss why it's more performant, and it's because of the I/O bandwidth the SSD's provide paired with the new DirectStorage API which significantly optimises the asset streaming pipeline from SSD into VRAM.

Now make no mistake, I'm not comparing one of the worlds most powerful supercomputers to gaming consoles, but the concept is the same.

Here's the link.

I won't even read the rest of your post as I will assume it's just trolling.

I'm more than happy to bring direct quotes from actual game developers who've actually worked on games, talking about how SSD's have benefited the games visuals, performance and design. However I already know from you post history that you rarely argue or discuss in good faith, and it's not like you can refute credible game developers and programmers since you've never worked on a game yourself.

I know I've mentioned the SSD several times now, but it's a good example of a subject which you've consistently displayed your ignorance in. Maybe go ask your "contacts" over at Naughty Dog how they convinced Mark Cerny and his team of engineers to dedicate precious silicon space to data I/O.

but I get plenty of invites from game companies to join their graphics team

lol

 

[DenchDeckard]

Current Generation Games Analysis Technical Discussion [2022] [XBSX|S, PS5, PC]

Now something actually on topic... The Ascent with power draw measures. The PS5 hits 220-230 watts, while the Series X around 190 watts, and Series S around 80-90 watts. I am surprised how the power consumption seems to hover at ~195W on the rooftop on XSX. PS5 has a more stable framerate...

forum.beyond3d.com

The first like there on his comment is an epic dev

and this is him talking about Dictators video where he only seemed to want to clarify a detail setting and how shadows work with tsr.

Unreal Engine 5, [UE5 Developer Availability 2022-04-05]

'you'll never make the turn' pmsl

forum.beyond3d.com

Thx for the links, very interesting.

NXGamer i think your pc needs looking at, there seems to be something clearly wrong with it. Probs worth avoiding doing any further comparisons with PC until you get it sorted.

 

[vpance]

NXGamer if you're running a dev build with the console enabled doesn't that run slower than the shipping config?

 

[NXGamer]

NXGamer if you're running a dev build with the console enabled doesn't that run slower than the shipping config?

It does when you turn on the stats, this can impact performance a great deal but only when on. During testing I have this disabled, but I will build a release version to see if that is also affecting it.

 

[NXGamer]

Thx for the links, very interesting.

NXGamer i think your pc needs looking at, there seems to be something clearly wrong with it. Probs worth avoiding doing any further comparisons with PC until you get it sorted.

My PC is fine, calm your nerves. In fact it benches higher than most equal machines.

 

[Riky]

They had access to the Series S months in advance (when it wasn't even announced) and were flown there to see it. After that there is just no way they can be seen as a neutral party, too close of a relationship. Alex in particular comes of as an unashamed PC fanboy.

They were actually flown there to see the Series X, they had no idea about the Series S until they were there and shown the form factor only.
So no they didn't have "access" to it at all.
Even under NDA they ran a video on how a 4tflop machine would perform, I doubt Microsoft approved that.

 

[StateofMajora]

Waiting on x3D tests.

 

[nominedomine]

They were actually flown there to see the Series X, they had no idea about the Series S until they were there and shown the form factor only.
So no they didn't have "access" to it at all.
Even under NDA they ran a video on how a 4tflop machine would perform, I doubt Microsoft approved that.

Your rephrasing of it doesn't contradict what I said. They were flown there and got access to a product that would only be announced much later, then proceeded with their speculation videos as if they didn't know already.

I wonder why they did a video about how a 4TFLOP machine would perform where they conclude it's a good idea... "I think MS is onto something here" is how they conclude that video... come on.

If a reviewer gets special treatment like that there is no way to take what they say at face value and makes me wonder when did MS approach them or how long that relationship has been like that. It could have started long before it became so obvious.

 

[MasterCornholio]

People need to calm down a bit. Both the XSX and the PS5 have very good I/O systems. Whenever someone praises the I/O in the PS5 it can probably be applied to the Series as well. NXgamer saying nice things about the I/O doesn’t mean it can’t apply to the Series as well.

 

[Riky]

Your rephrasing of it doesn't contradict what I said. They were flown there and got access to a product that would only be announced much later, then proceeded with their speculation videos as if they didn't know already.

I wonder why they did a video about how a 4TFLOP machine would perform where they conclude it's a good idea... "I think MS is onto something here" is how they conclude that video... come on.

If a reviewer gets special treatment like that there is no way to take what they say at face value and makes me wonder when did MS approach them or how long that relationship has been like that.

I didn't rephrase you, I corrected you.

You said they had "access" to the machine months in advance, untrue as they just saw the form factor removed from a bag.

I don't see why they should turn down an opportunity like that, we got to see the Series X disassembled and some good detail on its specs, they are obviously one of the few outlets that MS trust as they showed them Series S.

If Sony made the same offer we would want them to accept that.

 

[DenchDeckard]

My PC is fine, calm your nerves. In fact it benches higher than most equal machines.

nerves are fine thx just looking at similar spec’d systems and it looks like your pc is under performing. I’ll be honest, I only have a very minimal grasp of anything technical so I’m not putting you to task, just saying there may be something off.

 

[nominedomine]

I didn't rephrase you, I corrected you.

You said they had "access" to the machine months in advance, untrue as they just saw the form factor removed from a bag.

I don't see why they should turn down an opportunity like that, we got to see the Series X disassembled and some good detail on its specs, they are obviously one of the few outlets that MS trust as they showed them Series S.

If Sony made the same offer we would want them to accept that.

That's access to it, they had official information that no one had for a long time before it was made public, I don't know why you want to deny it.

If you don't mind reviewers getting close to the companies that make the products they review good for you, I do mind it. If Sony made the same offer you would want them to accept that, not me.

Any respectable reviewer would know that by accepting that co-promotion deal they were trading credibility for popularity.

 

[winjer]

My PC is fine, calm your nerves. In fact it benches higher than most equal machines.

My PC is just slightly better than your 2700X+2070. You should be within 10% difference.
But in that same scene after the camera pans down, your PC is 65% slower.
And while driving your PC is more than 100% slower.
There is something very wrong, either with your PC, or with the packaged demo you were running.

BTW, how did you manage to get your PC to use 13 GB while running the demo?
Mine was using 9GB and I had Brave with a few tabs open in the background. Without it, it would probably be closer to 8GB.

 

[Riky]

That's access to it, they had official information that no one had for a long time before it was made public, I don't know why you want to deny it.

It's not "access" they couldn't test it or anything. They just knew it existed, however the rumours were around anyway if you look back.
They have also been plenty critical of it, mainly about the memory setup.

 

[nominedomine]

It's not "access" they couldn't test it or anything. They just knew it existed, however the rumours were around anyway if you look back.
They have also been plenty critical of it, mainly about the memory setup.

I never said they could test it, you are the one trying to get me on a technicality or trying to restrict what access can mean. They were given privileged information while visiting MS and then made a video speculating about something they already knew about and even got the specs right (when there were multiple different rumors going around).

4TF seemed unbelievably low at that time for a nextgen console, so I think it's pretty acceptable to assume they were given that information too. You seem 100% sure of everything they were told or all they talked about during that secret trip, I'm not.

They keep pushing the Series S as brittliantly designed at $300, that doesn't sound right at all to me and never will. Sounds like straight up shilling.

 

[Bogroll]

Can you mention to me a single time when DF they ever talked about Geometry Engine or the cache scrubbers on ps5 hardware? Just a single time. They reported practically everything about the XSX hardware specs but for "reasons" they never talk about the particularity of GE or other customisation on ps5. Why don't ask for more feedback by Sony in case they know nothing? We know practically everything about VRS, SFS, INT4/8, ML on XSX but hearing them ps5 it's just about his SSD speed and nothing more. Where is all their enthusiasm for new console tech when ps5 is involved? Just an example.

I just can't believe they didn't do a video on your claim of 30fps games play at 60fps on certain tv's either.

 

[MightySquirrel]

If they cared about their reputation they should've. They made their choice, views over any illusion of neutrality. There's an automatic bias that comes from accepting this sort of co-promotion.

And as I said before, the Alex guy can't even hide it. It is what it is, it makes no sense to pretend that everyone doesn't see it. They completely changed their tone from when they were doing PS4 Pro vs Xbox One X, they were making no excuses for the PS4 Pro.
If this guy was minimally consistent he would naturally think the Series S is utter shit. But no, he'll shit on and downplay the more powerful consoles for not being as powerful as a PC while leaving the Series S untouched.

If Hardware Nexus starts getting invited to Intel's headquarters to get exclusive hand-on on their new unannounced CPUs months in advance, then his channel would lose all credibility. That's pretty much what happened to DF.

What's even worse is that during that period DF was producing videos fake speculating on hardware they already knew about months in advance. There's no getting out of it.

John should leave DF as soon as possible and do his own thing since he is the that keeps the other in check on streams.

If DF was invited to a Sony event - they would have gone there. Why refuse an invite to MS event? It's an honor and recognition for their work in the field. Props to MS for recognizing. Sony should have invited DF instead of some muppet unknown twitch streamers like they did.

 

[nominedomine]

If DF was invited to a Sony event - they would have gone there. Why refuse an invite to MS event? It's an honor and recognition for their work in the field. Props to MS for recognizing. Sony should have invited DF instead of some muppet unknown twitch streamers like they did.

It's Sony fault now that DF got way too close to MS and got exclusive access to privileged information about unannounced products months in advance of it being released? If DF is going around acting like some muppet unknown twitch streamers that already says it all.

Anyone would have a more favorable view of the company that is flying them around and giving them exclusive access to privileged information, that's just human nature and why such relationships shouldn't exist between reviewers and those making the products they review.

Was Sony wrong for not getting cozy with DF? Maybe they were, maybe Sony should've paid for some trips during the PS3 days.

 

[Riky]

I never said they could test it, you are the one trying to get me on a technicality or trying to restrict what access can mean. They were given privileged information while visiting MS and then made a video speculating about something they already knew about and even got the specs right (when there were multiple different rumors going around).

4TF seemed unbelievably low at that time for a nextgen console, so I think it's pretty acceptable to assume they were given that information too. You seem 100% sure of everything they were told or all they talked about during that secret trip, I'm not.

They keep pushing the Series S as brittliantly designed at $300, that doesn't sound right at all to me and never will. Sounds like straight up shilling.

It isn't "secret" they've talked about it often and talked about it at the time because the real point of the trip was to see Series X. They were under NDA on Series S, so couldn't talk about it directly.
I would watch the video on Series S, they talk about power draw, size and acoustics, in that regard it is brilliantly designed whether you like it or not.

 

[nominedomine]

It isn't "secret" they've talked about it often and talked about it at the time because the real point of the trip was to see Series X. They were under NDA on Series S, so couldn't talk about it directly.
I would watch the video on Series S, they talk about power draw, size and acoustics, in that regard it is brilliantly designed whether you like it or not.

You don't get it. If they were under NDA on the Series S for many months while the product was unannounced, that is already way too much, specially since during that time they were doing speculative videos about it.

It isn't brilliantly designed when it costs $300 and performs like that. It looks miserable in comparison to the Series X and the PS5, without even getting into the $400 PS5 DE.

 

[Riky]

You don't get it. If they were under NDA on the Series S for many months while the product was unannounced, that is already way too much, specially since during that time they were doing speculative videos about it.

Way too much in who's opinion, yours? That doesn't really mean anything.
Lots of people were speculating about it, obviously developers were actually making games for it so word gets out.

 

[nominedomine]

Way too much in who's opinion, yours? That doesn't really mean anything.
Lots of people were speculating about it, obviously developers were actually making games for it so word gets out.

Yes? Should I be giving somebody else's opinion? Are you giving an opinion that isn't yours?

Words gets out when you get flown in from the UK to see unannounced products months in advance. I don't know why you are in denial.

 

[Riky]

Yes? Should I be giving somebody else's opinion? Are you giving an opinion that isn't yours?

Words gets out when you get flown in from the UK to see unannounced products months in advance. I don't know why you are in denial.

Why shouldn't they? They are a tech channel, getting to see the hardware in advance isn't new, they did it with Xbox One X years ago. They don't "review" games with their opinion, they give actual stats on framerates and resolutions, those metrics are facts and if they saw a Series S chassis months earlier changes nothing, why you're upset by it I have no idea, I suspect if it was Sony console you wouldn't be so hurt.
They "reviewed' PS5 and it was a glowing review, so obviously seeing a machine early doesn't change what they think about the final product.

 

[nominedomine]

Why shouldn't they? They are a tech channel, getting to see the hardware in advance isn't new, they did it with Xbox One X years ago. They don't "review" games with their opinion, they give actual stats on framerates and resolutions, those metrics are facts and if they saw a Series S chassis months earlier changes nothing, why you're upset by it I have no idea, I suspect if it was Sony console you wouldn't be so hurt.
They "reviewed' PS5 and it was a glowing review, so obviously seeing a machine early doesn't change what they think about the final product.

They give a lot of opinions too, all the time, come on. They review the hardware, they review how the games run on their consoles.

If the Series S at $300 is a brilliant design than what is the PS5 DE at $400?

I'm not upset, I'm just pointing out what I see and what I see is that DF has too close of a relationship with MS for the sort of channel they are. You think it's unreasonable for me to think MS flying DF from the UK to be given exclusive access to a product before it was even announced is inappropriate? I would have the same problem with any reviewer that did something like this.