Fortuneelsewhere
Member
This post first made laugh... then made me cry...
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Digital Foundry - [4K] Horizon Zero Dawn In-Depth Tech Analysis
- Thread starter danowat
- Start date
This post first made laugh... then made me cry...
AgentOtaku
Member
I've waited on watching this as I haven't gotten my copy yet
Any spoilerly bits in this?
thanks
Any spoilerly bits in this?
thanks
xenorevlis
Member
Found this rather enlightening. The trade-offs seem more than worth it for how insane the game tends to look and the smoothness of the combat. Hearing dark10x succumb to his love for incredible tech was awesome.
I think they are dead inside, or think the analysis is for the performance of a corporation rather than you know. a videoGAME. Take your head out of your behind, Harlequin. Jeebus lol
Are Pro boost mode games pointless?
I'd say the problem is people having such a thin skin that they freak out at the slightest sign of negativity or criticism but alright.
That's the attitude I usually take (ignore the meaningless, subjective stuff and only watch for the facts) but this video was kind of extreme even for DF's standards which is why I felt the need to comment on it in the first place. If he'd just mentioned that he thinks the game looks good or beautiful or whatever a couple of times, I wouldn't have bothered saying anything but, like I said, it almost sounded like someone from Sony's PR department wrote parts of the script (before anyone starts misinterpreting that sentence, I'm definitely not suggesting that Sony actually had a hand in creating this video) and I couldn't even get myself to finish watching the video. I don't see the problem with sharing my POV on that. Apparently, I'm in the minority so I don't expect them to do anything about it and that's fine, I just don't think the kind of reaction my comment has elicited is the appropriate response to someone civilly voicing an opinion you disagree with on a message board (yours was about the least problematic response). (And yes, I am aware of the irony that can be found in me saying people should let me express my opinion when I've just criticised DF for expressing theirs but it's all about context. I wouldn't dream of telling anyone from DF that they shouldn't share their opinions on forums, in opinion pieces, reviews, etc. Just saying that I don't find it entirely appropriate in the context of a technical analysis.)
As for what's wrong with bringing so much of your opinion into an analysis? Opinions are subjective, they're not factual and they are, in the context of an analysis, pretty much a meaningless waste of time and space. Though, of course, not entirely meaningless because they do affect and distort the way the facts are perceived by the audience when the audience should actually be forming their own opinions based only on objective facts. You would never read sth like "this is the most beautiful painting produced in the entirety of the 16th century" in a professional art analysis, for example (which isn't exactly the same thing but I think similar principles regarding objectivity and subjectivity apply).
I wish I could but I'm afraid it's stuck
.depends on how much are being boost.
Hmm, I think we just have a different idea of what the video is. It seems like you are expecting a type of video that I never set out to make.
For this one, I was going after an almost "nature show" kind of vibe simply because I felt it was so beautiful and wanted to showcase the tech. I want to showcase and recognize the achievements of developers - if they are deserved, of course. The facts are all there and can be parsed as you see fit.
...and I think the numbers show that people would rather watch something like this as the more straightforward, dry videos tend to do much worse overall. I simply prefer making this type of video but I'll consider your suggestions as well.
Gradly
Member
I don't have a problem with expressing views and opinions on videos dedicated for analysis tech cuz I don't expect robots to give me pure analysis, plus opinions and personal views are not limited to this game in particular, any game that looks pretty, believe me they will tell you it looks pretty, so it's fair for all games.
I'm curious to know your stance about reviews then? If they are opinions and subjective, why do we even care about reading them at all? You know, I actually prefer a tech guy's opinion on something than a so called pro reviewer's to make a purchase decision
Gradly
Member
Good job DF, I would rather listen to your own opinion about games rather than the opinion of some random reviewer anytime
I'd say the problem is people having such a thin skin that they freak out at the slightest sign of negativity or criticism but alright.
That's the attitude I usually take (ignore the meaningless, subjective stuff and only watch for the facts) but this video was kind of extreme even for DF's standards which is why I felt the need to comment on it in the first place. If he'd just mentioned that he thinks the game looks good or beautiful or whatever a couple of times, I wouldn't have bothered saying anything but, like I said, it almost sounded like someone from Sony's PR department wrote parts of the script (before anyone starts misinterpreting that sentence, I'm definitely not suggesting that Sony actually had a hand in creating this video) and I couldn't even get myself to finish watching the video. I don't see the problem with sharing my POV on that. Apparently, I'm in the minority so I don't expect them to do anything about it and that's fine, I just don't think the kind of reaction my comment has elicited is the appropriate response to someone civilly voicing an opinion you disagree with on a message board (yours was about the least problematic response). (And yes, I am aware of the irony that can be found in me saying people should let me express my opinion when I've just criticised DF for expressing theirs but it's all about context. I wouldn't dream of telling anyone from DF that they shouldn't share their opinions on forums, in opinion pieces, reviews, etc. Just saying that I don't find it entirely appropriate in the context of a technical analysis.)
As for what's wrong with bringing so much of your opinion into an analysis? Opinions are subjective, they're not factual and they are, in the context of an analysis, pretty much a meaningless waste of time and space. Though, of course, not entirely meaningless because they do affect and distort the way the facts are perceived by the audience when the audience should actually be forming their own opinions based only on objective facts. You would never read sth like "this is the most beautiful painting produced in the entirety of the 16th century" in a professional art analysis, for example (which isn't exactly the same thing but I think similar principles regarding objectivity and subjectivity apply).
I wish I could but I'm afraid it's stuck
Stop putting your opinions in your posts. I thought you had higher standards than that.
What have opinions got to do with standards?
I understand where you are coming from, but it's clear when an opinion in the video is that, an opinion. Everyone views the world differently and has their own interpretation of things. There is always filtering going on as it would be impossible to capture everything that would be required to make an objective analysis. The danger is when opinions are presented as facts, which really don't happen in these videos.
I think we just have different ideas of what constitutes an analysis and that's fine. Like I said, I'm obviously in the minority so it's only fair that you stick to what you've been doing and I do generally like your content. Personally, I'd appreciate it if it wasn't quite as full of marketing-speech-style commentary as this one tech analysis video but hey, life is not a bowl of cherries and I can't very well expect you to gear your content solely towards me
.Oh, I know, I never said that it was unfair just that it was a bit more extreme in this video than in most other DF videos I'd watched (where I personally also didn't like it but was able to ignore it for the most part).
First off, reviews are supposed to be subjective and it'd be moronic of me to try and argue that reviews shouldn't feature the reviewer's personal opinion. That being said, I personally don't usually read reviews for games as I tend to find most of them far too lenient and forgiving (you know, the whole "7/10 is a bad score"-BS) but when I do it's often more to get a description of the mechanics, level design, game structure etc. rather than for the reviewer's opinion. Or for comparisons to other games which I have played. Of course, some reviews I also simply consume for their entertainment value (many of Jim Sterling's video reviews, for example).
Gradly
Member
Yea but its not their fault if the game is EXTREMELY pretty haha
I said it before, I think reviews should be (opinions + responsibility). Opinions alone are what I expect from a random gamer on some random forum, but not from a pro reviewer. And to give you an example, I didn't like Witcher 3 at all and sold it after like 2 hours of playing, if I want to give you a review as a gamer I'd give it 3/10 but If I were to do it as a pro reviewer I'd give it 9/10 or I'd not review it at all.
I'd say the problem is people having such a thin skin that they freak out at the slightest sign of negativity or criticism but alright.
That's the attitude I usually take (ignore the meaningless, subjective stuff and only watch for the facts) but this video was kind of extreme even for DF's standards which is why I felt the need to comment on it in the first place. If he'd just mentioned that he thinks the game looks good or beautiful or whatever a couple of times, I wouldn't have bothered saying anything but, like I said, it almost sounded like someone from Sony's PR department wrote parts of the script (before anyone starts misinterpreting that sentence, I'm definitely not suggesting that Sony actually had a hand in creating this video) and I couldn't even get myself to finish watching the video. I don't see the problem with sharing my POV on that. Apparently, I'm in the minority so I don't expect them to do anything about it and that's fine, I just don't think the kind of reaction my comment has elicited is the appropriate response to someone civilly voicing an opinion you disagree with on a message board (yours was about the least problematic response). (And yes, I am aware of the irony that can be found in me saying people should let me express my opinion when I've just criticised DF for expressing theirs but it's all about context. I wouldn't dream of telling anyone from DF that they shouldn't share their opinions on forums, in opinion pieces, reviews, etc. Just saying that I don't find it entirely appropriate in the context of a technical analysis.)
As for what's wrong with bringing so much of your opinion into an analysis? Opinions are subjective, they're not factual and they are, in the context of an analysis, pretty much a meaningless waste of time and space. Though, of course, not entirely meaningless because they do affect and distort the way the facts are perceived by the audience when the audience should actually be forming their own opinions based only on objective facts. You would never read sth like "this is the most beautiful painting produced in the entirety of the 16th century" in a professional art analysis, for example (which isn't exactly the same thing but I think similar principles regarding objectivity and subjectivity apply).
I wish I could but I'm afraid it's stuck
I look forward to your YT video brimful of analysis and nothing else.
This idea that you need to be able to do a better job yourself to be allowed to criticise sth is utter nonsense. By that logic, the majority of people on here would never be able to criticise a single video game. Neither would most video game reviewers.
DirgeExtinction
Member
Are we really criticizing a tech analysis because the person making the video injected opinions here and there? Geez. Those opinions have no impact on the facts presented. It's not like saying it's beautiful negates the fact that the water physics/shaders aren't that great, since he stated that. These sorts of videos can add all the opinions they want as long as they also state the facts.
Equanimity
Member
I like my technical analysis with a healthy dose of opinion. Excuse me for having higher standards than you.
Blackthorn
"hello?" "this is vagina"
I like my technical analysis to have neither analysis or opinion. I have higher standards than anyone.
visiblemode
Member
Using the phrase "waxing poetic" in a cricism is ironic, as it is inherently self-descriptive.
That said, you know, I love the personal opinion aspect of their videos. The cold tech analysis is great, but given their expertise their opinions bring a lot of perspective to all those facts and figures. When they say a game is gorgeous, I really believe them, as they really aren't easily moved, and have high standards.
It's especially useful in cases like this when I listen to the video, instead of watch, so that I get some of the technical details but avoid small visual spoilers.
Souldestroyer Reborn
Banned
I thought GG and Kojima's engine was different hence why Kojima's was called the Decima Engine. That's what he said in an article that had an interview with him recently anyway.
Yes the engine itself was based on GG's (Whatever that was called) but they worked on changing it together and called the new engine Decima?
Yes the engine itself was based on GG's (Whatever that was called) but they worked on changing it together and called the new engine Decima?
LastMinuteHero
Member
I think decima was always decima; it just didn't have a proper name yet
lukeskymac
Member
Gradly
Member
Not like that, it's GG engine and called Decima, but Kojima said that Death Stranding game will be different in art style etc and he kinda will add his own changes/enhancements to the engine, and they will share knowledge as well. This was mentioned in a video interview IIRC
Edit: This interview:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhgwoJ5CYOI
There's a fundamental difference between criticising a piece of art, and criticising a piece of criticism.
The production of art requires, talent, time and luck. Criticism requires none of these things, merely an opinion and a platform with which to make it - which is why critics rarely produce art themselves.
Always-honest
Banned
Awesome video with a lot of information.
It's okay to be impressed by the way. Don't mind the people who have it wrong and accuse you of marketing. It's not your fault the game is a technical marvel.
Having said that, we should always be open to criticism. As i think you are. Maybe recommending the game was a bit too much (for some). But i can understand. Especially after watching this vid.
Too bad the foliage doesn't react to characters like it did in Uncharted 4.
And the water sticks out. That just doesn't look and behave as well as the rest.
Voice audio in surround sound is a shame too. But that can be patched, right?
It's okay to be impressed by the way. Don't mind the people who have it wrong and accuse you of marketing. It's not your fault the game is a technical marvel.
Having said that, we should always be open to criticism. As i think you are. Maybe recommending the game was a bit too much (for some). But i can understand. Especially after watching this vid.
Too bad the foliage doesn't react to characters like it did in Uncharted 4.
And the water sticks out. That just doesn't look and behave as well as the rest.
Voice audio in surround sound is a shame too. But that can be patched, right?
visiblemode
Member
I don't see the problem, really. Horizon is looking so incredible, I'd believe almost anything to be possible on the same engine several years from now.
The DS trailer stands out from HZD because of its art style, not its fidelity.
I meant when i posted had there not even been a Pro PS4, the PS4 version would have still blown minds all the same, and really sold the capability of the PS4 base, but in hindsight it does sound dumb cause the base PS4 version is out regardless xD
DangerMouse
Member
Yeah, even the OG PS4 version seems to look stunning and run incredibly well despite looking this damned good.