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Digital Foundry about XSX teraflops advantage : It's kinda all blowing up in the face of Xbox Series X

Zuzu

Member
I predict that PS5 Pro will be close in power with the Main Next Gen Xbox & might actually have more GPU TFLOPS but games will look better on the next gen console

If you're talking about the next gen Series S then I think you'll probably be right. The PS5 Pro will most likely be more powerful than next gen Series S. But if you're talking about Series X then I don't think so. Microsoft would have to insane to release a next gen Series X that doesn't exceed the TFLOPs of the PS5 Pro. Could you imagine the meltdown that would happen if Microsoft announces a Series X to release in 2026 or 2027 that is LESS powerful than the PS5 Pro released in 2024?

But for next gen Series S I can see it having less TFLOPs than the PS5 Pro.
 

Killjoy-NL

Member
Honestly anybody thinks devs give a fuck about optimising for 20% more performance advantages in "some expects". They will just focus on base spec for both consoles adjust settings and slam out there product.

These boxes are practical identical.
Or maybe they care, but the system is bottlenecked.

If you have 20 people that have to go through one door, they still have to go one by one. No matter how hard you yell at them to make em go faster.
 

shamoomoo

Member
I have read the penalty argument (memory contention perhaps?) several times, but I would like to understand it; What difference is there from the penalty that PS5 has? Both have a single memory pool that the CPU and GPU will access, the bandwidth penalty when CPU/GPU access them simultaneously is inevitable. The only thing that could penalize performance is that if you need more than 10GB in XSX for the GPU you would have to deal with slower bandwidth as well, but it is not very slow compared to the bandwidth of PS5, and probably in addition to those 6GB there is high CPU/OS usage. The truth is that I am not very clear about the reason for MS's decision, it does not seem that it is to reduce costs, surely there is more demand from R/D to make a configuration like that, but without a doubt for the developers I do not think it is an very smart option. but the memory contention issue should be on both platforms. This problem is generated when CPU/GPU simultaneously access a single memory pool. On PS4, for example, I also had this problem and did not have memories with different bandwidths. I do not pretend to be absolutely right and if someone disagrees I will be happy to debate, but it does not seem logical to me.

PS4-GPU-Bandwidth-140-not-176.png



What I forgot to say is that the developer (supposed?) I think said that the XSS/XSX OS took up more memory and that's why they had more available on PS5. But it still seems very strange to me, it is something that would have been very noticeable in multiplatform games.
The Series X APU has a dual purpose,for gaming and Microsoft azure cloud if I got the name right. Also, Microsoft couldn't have gone with anything else as the faster GDDR6 chips produce more heat and the buswidth they chose doesn't allow for 16GBs of RAM.
 

Kenpachii

Member
Or maybe they care, but the system is bottlenecked.

If you have 20 people that have to go through one door, they still have to go one by one. No matter how hard you yell at them to make em go faster.

20% is nothing mate, anybody with a PC knows this. No dev is going to grind that extra performance out to push a box unless its a first party developer that blows 200m on there games because they feel like tinkering every part of the game to the max because they got nothing else to do. They will just slam some stock settings and see how it runs and call it a day.
 
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Killjoy-NL

Member
20% is nothing mate, anybody with a PC knows this. No dev is going to grind that extra performance out to push a box unless its a first party developer that blows 200m on there games because they feel like tinkering every part of the game to the max because they got nothing else to do. They will just slam some stock settings and see how it runs and call it a day.
It's not that I don't believe you, but if it's bottlenecked it wouldn't matter much anyway.
 

onQ123

Member
Next gen SS could have same gfx performance as SX. Assuming SX is their Pro version of this gen 🤦‍♂️


My thinking is Apple entering the race with high-end / console equal games for iPhone/iPad/Mac & Microsoft knowing that they need a lower entry but has no chance of getting the phone market will probably have a scalable model with games playable on handhelds to high-end consoles with Cloud ( For Real this time) giving the lower end hardware a boost .

mobile is the biggest market right now & having the best platform to play these mobile games will be the smartest way to go but Apple has a head start if they start getting the iPhone users to buying games that scale across their devices then release a console like device (in the right price range)

Xbox isn't selling anything on consoles lately & I think they will disengage from a head to head battle with PlayStation & get into a scalable platform that includes mobile devices.
 

DJ12

Member
For someone who struggles with english enough to have to use Google translate, they sure seem to have their thoughts together and express them in a manner way beyond a typical English speaking member of this forum....hmmm
Yeah saying he used chagpt would've been more believable lol
 

Lysandros

Member
Or maybe they care, but the system is bottlenecked.

If you have 20 people that have to go through one door, they still have to go one by one. No matter how hard you yell at them to make em go faster.
When we lay out different GPU aspects of both systems, we clearly see "balanced/evenly matched" picture with slight advantages in specific throughputs going either way. This also stands true for CPU and RAM bandwidth side of things with I/O hardware being the exception. In this context machines performing essentially on par is the expected result and "a mysterious bottleneck preventing XSX to reach its full potential" narrative doesn't make sense.
 

Killjoy-NL

Member
When we lay out different GPU aspects of both systems, we clearly see "balanced/evenly matched" picture with slight advantages in specific throughputs going either way. This also stands true for CPU and RAM bandwidth side of things with I/O hardware being the exception. In this context machines performing essentially on par is the expected result and "a mysterious bottleneck preventing XSX to reach its full potential" narrative doesn't make sense.
Yeah, I get that much.

But to my understanding there are always going to be bottlenecks and going by Road to PS5, PS5 was designed to minimize bottlenecks.
So that would mean that Series X would suffer from bottlenecks more (or rather PS5 suffers less).

If that logic is flawed, I stand corrected.
My knowledge is limited, so indepth discussions fly over my head sometimes. :)
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Well well, it seems like Mr Ray-tracing will settle for good games instead of cutting-edge tech; well guess what Mr Bugaga, Playstation has the tech AND the games.


DF is still questioning if a PS5 Pro is needed. Fascinating. But think a PRO console is coming more for PR reasons, than consumer needs.
 

Vergil1992

Member
No one is actually saying that the Xbox Series X has a "mysterious bottleneck." Basically what is being said is that PS5, by selling in a much larger proportion, the versions are more optimized, especially at launch. And the other theory, which can be deduced from what many developers have said, is that working on PS5 is more comfortable.

They have mentioned several times that the PS4 was selling much more than the One X and that did not make the PS4 Pro and One X versions on par. And that argument does not hold up, for a multitude of compelling reasons:

- First of all, the technological difference was much greater (than between PS5 and XSX). Even if you don't optimize both the Xbox One X and PS4 Pro versions, by brute force it's very difficult for them to work on par.

- And yet, there were better versions on PS4 Pro! or games that were pretty evenly matched. We saw things as crazy as versions of One X games that exceeded the resolution of PS4 Pro by 70%, but we also saw that some games went at the same resolution and even worked better on PS4 Pro. It's hard to imagine how it could be possible for a significantly less powerful platform to have an equal or better version, but it happened.

I don't think there is any mystery here. The reasons DF says make sense. There are many examples of games clearly less optimized for Xbox, including bugs, crashes, games with transversal stuttering (some at launch, such as Control, which was later fixed through an update), games with Ray Tracing mode that come without Ray Tracing ...graphic problems... luckily they tend to be corrected, to a greater or lesser extent, but it makes it clear that the software side is very important. And if something can be fixed, it is that the culprit is not the hardware. It is the game optimization process or the API.

I repeat, One X had in its favor that the difference with PS4 Pro was enormous. Even if you didn't optimize correctly. It was also relatively common to see games with much higher resolution but worse performance:


Captura-de-pantalla-2023-10-02-200249.png


If what happens in this screenshot is applied to today, there would be no shortage of comments like "PS5 is better designed and its much higher frequency makes its performance more stable." But the PS4 Pro wasn't faster than the One X. Some simply optimized worse on the Microsoft machine, or the resolution difference was too big. And I think something similar is currently happening (not the same, similar)


When we see screenshots like this and there is a current comparison, it is automatically denied that XSX is something more powerful and the narrative is that PS5 is better designed, or that because of its higher frequency it could work better ... even in Immortals Aveum, which XSX has a very consistent framerate advantage, it seemed that the winning version was the PS5 for having a focus filter! I don't think it's fair lol. It's actually probably either the game isn't optimized properly and has CPU/memory performance issues or it's at an earlier stage in the optimization process, or the game is rendering at 20 or 30% higher resolutions. The difference of 15-18% is not big enough. If PS5 has simpler tools, or is the priority platform, an extra 15% won't make XSX consistently better. Not really the 100% faster SSD of PS5 is running 100% faster than XSX in 99.9% of games... But that doesn't invalidate the fact that it's twice as fast.

On the other hand, as someone who has both consoles and sees each comparison to decide each version, the XSX resolutions are usually higher, as I demonstrated with the last 30 comparisons from the VG Tech media (which will also be green).
 
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Thirty7ven

Banned
Power doesn’t matter for Xbox, it’s about the games now.

aBCCMre.jpg


Well well, it seems like Mr Ray-tracing will settle for good games instead of cutting-edge tech; well guess what Mr Bugaga, Playstation has the tech AND the games.


God it’s excruciating looking at Alex, he doesn’t do a good job hiding his feelings at all. He always comes at the subject from Xbox pov, and then he has these reactions, you can tell he’s bummed about it because he really does have an axe to grind with PlayStation.
 

solidus12

Member
God it’s excruciating looking at Alex, he doesn’t do a good job hiding his feelings at all. He always comes at the subject from Xbox pov, and then he has these reactions, you can tell he’s bummed about it because he really does have an axe to grind with PlayStation.
He hates seeing outdated consoles (PlayStations) release graphical powerhouses.
 
According to my understanding is that Xbox Series X and PC (Dx12) is 90% CPU bottleneck due to unknown reason.

Example

Uncharted on PC. At 4K RTX 3060 is nearly fast as PS5 because as it removes most of the bottleneck.



Spiderman MM and Remastered both run same as RTX 3060 on PS5 at 4K


Immortals of Aveum
Same story but this time RTX 3060 is beating PS5 as DF states that PS5 or Xbox Series is running this game on high to low settings.




The Callisto Protocol

same story.



The list will go on like for example DF shows something very interesting that their is zero difference in performance when you compare same CPU or GPU of Xbox Equivalent with PC because of DX11-12.


The video is very interesting and sad that Xbox API (Dx12) is in very bad shape, also it does not have any difference and Props to PS5 for a such a good API. That is why all most all Sony port to PC runs better on higher resolution on PC due to bottleneck of CPU.
 

Vergil1992

Member
According to my understanding is that Xbox Series X and PC (Dx12) is 90% CPU bottleneck due to unknown reason.

Example

Uncharted on PC. At 4K RTX 3060 is nearly fast as PS5 because as it removes most of the bottleneck.



Spiderman MM and Remastered both run same as RTX 3060 on PS5 at 4K


Immortals of Aveum
Same story but this time RTX 3060 is beating PS5 as DF states that PS5 or Xbox Series is running this game on high to low settings.




The Callisto Protocol

same story.



The list will go on like for example DF shows something very interesting that their is zero difference in performance when you compare same CPU or GPU of Xbox Equivalent with PC because of DX11-12.


The video is very interesting and sad that Xbox API (Dx12) is in very bad shape, also it does not have any difference and Props to PS5 for a such a good API. That is why all most all Sony port to PC runs better on higher resolution on PC due to bottleneck of CPU.

I'm definitely pretty convinced that there are games that when they have a problem on PC, the XSX is much more likely to have it than the PS5. I have played many games with cross-play and have shared games between my PC and my Xbox. If a game on PC has stuttering, it is possible that on XSX it will also have it, but not on PS5 (if not due to shader compilation). If a game has cpu underutilization issues on PC, XSX is much more likely to have framerate issues. Obviously this is difficult to prove without having the means to do so, but having a PC, PS5 and XSX I am quite convinced of it. In Atomic Heart it was particularly visible. I had stuttering in the exact same areas on my PC and on my XSX, they were clear enough (scrolling the map is when it happens the most) to see them even on Youtube, but on PS5 I didn't see any problems. This isn't exactly a "pro-Xbox" opinion, but I think the reasons for this are obvious; Xbox is interested in sharing games with Windows faster and easier. The launches of their exclusives are simultaneous. On PS5 there is no need to provide PC versions, it can take months or years and release a PC version after having fully optimized the PS5 version.

It is a double-edged sword.

There are some however that have transversal stuttering that doesn't play on Series X (Callisto Protocol), but there are definitely games that have very similar issues between PC and Xbox. The shader compilation problem is obviously not there in XSX. We also see cases where the XSX setup on PC can run, but the PS5 one has a different graphical setup that can't be "imitated" on PC, especially shadows.


I think there are definitely developers who take XSX as "a conventional PC" and use the generic DirectX12 API. I think XSX has its own low level API, but you can also use DX12 and version it easily.
 

Tripolygon

Banned
No one is actually saying that the Xbox Series X has a "mysterious bottleneck." Basically what is being said is that PS5, by selling in a much larger proportion, the versions are more optimized, especially at launch. And the other theory, which can be deduced from what many developers have said, is that working on PS5 is more comfortable.

They have mentioned several times that the PS4 was selling much more than the One X and that did not make the PS4 Pro and One X versions on par. And that argument does not hold up, for a multitude of compelling reasons:

- First of all, the technological difference was much greater (than between PS5 and XSX). Even if you don't optimize both the Xbox One X and PS4 Pro versions, by brute force it's very difficult for them to work on par.

- And yet, there were better versions on PS4 Pro! or games that were pretty evenly matched. We saw things as crazy as versions of One X games that exceeded the resolution of PS4 Pro by 70%, but we also saw that some games went at the same resolution and even worked better on PS4 Pro. It's hard to imagine how it could be possible for a significantly less powerful platform to have an equal or better version, but it happened.

I don't think there is any mystery here. The reasons DF says make sense. There are many examples of games clearly less optimized for Xbox, including bugs, crashes, games with transversal stuttering (some at launch, such as Control, which was later fixed through an update), games with Ray Tracing mode that come without Ray Tracing ...graphic problems... luckily they tend to be corrected, to a greater or lesser extent, but it makes it clear that the software side is very important. And if something can be fixed, it is that the culprit is not the hardware. It is the game optimization process or the API.

I repeat, One X had in its favor that the difference with PS4 Pro was enormous. Even if you didn't optimize correctly. It was also relatively common to see games with much higher resolution but worse performance:


If what happens in this screenshot is applied to today, there would be no shortage of comments like "PS5 is better designed and its much higher frequency makes its performance more stable." But the PS4 Pro wasn't faster than the One X. Some simply optimized worse on the Microsoft machine, or the resolution difference was too big. And I think something similar is currently happening (not the same, similar)


When we see screenshots like this and there is a current comparison, it is automatically denied that XSX is something more powerful and the narrative is that PS5 is better designed, or that because of its higher frequency it could work better ... even in Immortals Aveum, which XSX has a very consistent framerate advantage, it seemed that the winning version was the PS5 for having a focus filter! I don't think it's fair lol. It's actually probably either the game isn't optimized properly and has CPU/memory performance issues or it's at an earlier stage in the optimization process, or the game is rendering at 20 or 30% higher resolutions. The difference of 15-18% is not big enough. If PS5 has simpler tools, or is the priority platform, an extra 15% won't make XSX consistently better. Not really the 100% faster SSD of PS5 is running 100% faster than XSX in 99.9% of games... But that doesn't invalidate the fact that it's twice as fast.

On the other hand, as someone who has both consoles and sees each comparison to decide each version, the XSX resolutions are usually higher, as I demonstrated with the last 30 comparisons from the VG Tech media (which will also be green).
I don't know why you have chosen this hill to die on. May I remind you that, this is how you started your engagement in this forum?
Hello, it's my first message. My English is basic-medium, I hope I can be understood correctly even if I sound strange.

I think the performance difference between PS5-XSX is being greatly exaggerated, it's a difference of more or less 5 fps in areas with multiple NPCs or driving. Essentially, it's a very similar difference to the one before the patch:

I hope I don't offend anyone or have my comment be considered "console wars." I have both systems and I don't consider myself a fan of either.
If anything is clear now is that you are in fact a fan of one platform and you intend on dragging on this conversation to no end. You are making arguments that do not make sense. The difference between PS4 Pro and Xbox One X is significantly larger than the difference between PS5 and Xbox Series X. Breakdown all systems and you see that there are ways Xbox Series X is more powerful than PS5 and there are ways PS5 is more powerful than Xbox Series X that is not the case with PS4 Pro and Xbox One X. Software plays a large part in how games are made but both systems offer robust development platforms. It is 3 years old now, both systems have mature dev tools.

Who's alt account is this? You spent your entire time and posts since you decided to engage in this forum on the narrative that developers are not optimizing for Xbox Series X because PS5 sells more.
 

Vergil1992

Member
I don't know why you have chosen this hill to die on. May I remind you that, this is how you started your engagement in this forum?

If anything is clear now is that you are in fact a fan of one platform and you intend on dragging on this conversation to no end. You are making arguments that do not make sense. The difference between PS4 Pro and Xbox One X is significantly larger than the difference between PS5 and Xbox Series X. Breakdown all systems and you see that there are ways Xbox Series X is more powerful than PS5 and there are ways PS5 is more powerful than Xbox Series X that is not the case with PS4 Pro and Xbox One X. Software plays a large part in how games are made but both systems offer robust development platforms. It is 3 years old now, both systems have mature dev tools.

Who's alt account is this? You spent your entire time and posts since you decided to engage in this forum on the narrative that developers are not optimizing for Xbox Series X because PS5 sells more.
I'm not interested in your personal allusions, so I'll just ignore them.

I don't know what the point of your message is; I have already said about 20 times throughout the thread that the difference between One X and PS4 Pro was much greater. I used it as an example to say that even with those differences, there were better versions of some games on PS4 Pro and I argued that the software plays a very important role. I don't know why he repeats something that I myself have pointed out as if he were saying the opposite.


I can understand that because I don't speak English you misunderstand me, but I think it was understood well. So either you are distorting what I say in a "malicious" way or you simply have reading comprehension problems.


I won't answer any more messages.
 

PaintTinJr

Member
...... that is not the case with PS4 Pro and Xbox One X. Software plays a large part in how games are made but both systems offer robust development platforms. It is 3 years old now, both systems have mature dev tools.
....
The Rapid pack maths with more async compute was actually specific to the Pro, so anyone bottlenecking on Half float teraflops could have got superior results out of the PS4 Pro than X1X, in a 8 vs 6 situation, in the Pro's favour too, just to be absolutely accurate.
 

SKYF@ll

Member
There was one game at launch that averaged 26fps on one and 29fps on the other.
Six months later, it has been updated many times, and the average for both has become extremely close to 30fps.
The target resolution is the same, there is a 100-200p difference in DRS, and the detailed graphics settings are slightly different.
The gap between PS5 and Xbox Series X narrows with each optimization.
There is a lot of discussion about conspiracy theories, APIs, specs on paper, etc., but there is no doubt that the effective performance is the same.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
According to my understanding is that Xbox Series X and PC (Dx12) is 90% CPU bottleneck due to unknown reason.

Example

Uncharted on PC. At 4K RTX 3060 is nearly fast as PS5 because as it removes most of the bottleneck.



Spiderman MM and Remastered both run same as RTX 3060 on PS5 at 4K


Immortals of Aveum
Same story but this time RTX 3060 is beating PS5 as DF states that PS5 or Xbox Series is running this game on high to low settings.




The Callisto Protocol

same story.



The list will go on like for example DF shows something very interesting that their is zero difference in performance when you compare same CPU or GPU of Xbox Equivalent with PC because of DX11-12.


The video is very interesting and sad that Xbox API (Dx12) is in very bad shape, also it does not have any difference and Props to PS5 for a such a good API. That is why all most all Sony port to PC runs better on higher resolution on PC due to bottleneck of CPU.

This is not true. a 3060 does not perform like a PS5 in Uncharted. Your benchmark is showing DLSS performance footage. So its rendering at an internal 1080p resolution. Not 4k. Other benchmarks have shown PS5 performing like a 3070 in uncharted.

Your spiderman timestamp is broken and doesnt say what you are saying. I didnt bother checking the rest.
 

Dick Jones

Gold Member
8/10 at Xbox Era mate, what more could you want #persecutionEra #theyHateUsCuzTheyAnus
XboxEra didn't give it an 8/10. They have standards. They gave Redfall a lowly 8.5/10

EusqYxv.jpg


Now Starfield is only 1.2/10 better than Redfall. If I rang the studio and called Todd Howard a cunt, it would be less offensive than saying Starfield is 1.2/10 better than Redfall.

BmRVDTs.jpg


Also XboxEra love promoting Xbox and its games so much you are wondering whether they played Starfield on the Series X or Series S I hear you say. No, it was played on the Xbox Series Personal Computer. Fucking clownshoes.

To quote fellow Irishman Patches O'Houlihan "It's like watching a bunch of retards trying to fuck a doorknob out there"
 

Vergil1992

Member
Ghostwire Tokyo is a 3rd party game on PS5.
GhostWire is the perfect example of a bad port on Xbox Series. Except for someone with a lot of imagination (who surely says it is due to some PS5 technology that even Mark Cerny is unaware of), it is not normal at all for a game to have such big differences. On PS5 it runs at a higher resolution, better framerate and with a more precise RT. It is a truly abysmal difference for such equal hardware. However, others like Deathloop that had a similar release (exclusive to PS5 one year) were an identical version, but with 5fps on average better in quality mode and 10fps better in 120hz mode (in xsx)

In order not to offend, I won't say that XSX has an advantage (besides, I agree that it is ridiculous, if it exists), but it is quite obvious that the developer has the last word. On the other hand, one of the "problems" that media dedicated to making comparisons have are updates. We don't know what GhostWire Tokyo's current performance is like on Xbox, but we do know that after comparisons they released some updates that emphasized improving performance, "particularly on Xbox consoles."

ghostwire-tokyo-patch-notes-v0-nby2hjzy0o0b1.jpg



Will performance have improved much? who knows. Most likely, since it is not a "high caliber" game, we will not see performance comparisons again, nor will we know how it currently works on Xbox, but we know that there have been patches that claimed to improve its performance, especially on Xbox consoles.

Anyway, it's a shame that a first party game comes out in those conditions.
 
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Bojji

Member
Ghostwire Tokyo was already developed before it was ported to Xbox. It's not like it was devolved with series x strengths 1st.

This could be true for gen 7 games, PS3 and Xbox were completely different beasts, but now? Xbox and PS5 are basically the same pieces of hardware with only difference being lack of VRS, MS and SFS on PS5, but so far even Xbox only games are rarely using this stuff (nothing uses SFS and mesh shaders).
 

Pimpbaa

Member
Phil has those extra teraflops locked down, he wants to wait until Sony least expects it to unlock those teraflops and then BAM we got Cyberpunk 2077 with full path tracing at 60fps (120fps with it off). True story!
 
This is not true. a 3060 does not perform like a PS5 in Uncharted. Your benchmark is showing DLSS performance footage. So its rendering at an internal 1080p resolution. Not 4k. Other benchmarks have shown PS5 performing like a 3070 in uncharted.

Your spiderman timestamp is broken and doesnt say what you are saying. I didnt bother checking the rest.
Wrong. The GPU that people compare should compare is RTX 3060 due to higher VRAM. RTX 3070 bottlenecks on Ultra settings on 1440p due to VRAM limitation.

Look at RTX 3060 TI performance from Digital trends.


41 FPS average without DLSS ,however, it will not sustain due to lack of VRAM ,therefore, RTX 3060 can sustain because of higher.

So it can easily go around 38 fps average without DLSS and Uncharted unlock VRR on PS5 at 4K is around 40 fps average.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Wrong. The GPU that people compare should compare is RTX 3060 due to higher VRAM. RTX 3070 bottlenecks on Ultra settings on 1440p due to VRAM limitation.

Look at RTX 3060 TI performance from Digital trends.


41 FPS average without DLSS ,however, it will not sustain due to lack of VRAM ,therefore, RTX 3060 can sustain because of higher.

So it can easily go around 38 fps average without DLSS and Uncharted unlock VRR on PS5 at 4K is around 40 fps average.
you cant use a GPU thats 30% more powerful than the 3060 to prove your point.

lets see some actual 3060 benchmarks in uncharted 4 before we say its equivalent to the ps5.
 
you cant use a GPU thats 30% more powerful than the 3060 to prove your point.

lets see some actual 3060 benchmarks in uncharted 4 before we say its equivalent to the ps5.
There are many example for 3rd party games as well where RTX 3060 will beat PS5 easily. You can watch Youtube video on this at 4K. However, when it comes to lower resolution even at times 3070 cannot beat PS5 performance is due to API limitations on lower resolution and Nvidia Driver overheads.
 

PaintTinJr

Member
you cant use a GPU thats 30% more powerful than the 3060 to prove your point.

lets see some actual 3060 benchmarks in uncharted 4 before we say its equivalent to the ps5.
Yeah, the thing is, for a GPU comparison to console in good faith the game should at least be built around the PS5's Rapid pack maths, which then puts it beyond even RTX 3060 Ti, and into RTX 3070 territory like you said. The Uncharted 4 collection is old PS3 port to PS4 hardware, which doesn't have that capability, so a poor choice of title either way IMO.
 

Dick Jones

Gold Member
Redfall was in development way before Microsoft bought Bethesda.
We all know that. Cunt Eastwood was still bigging it up. Day 1 the MS management turned up and demanded the Playstation version be cancelled and then they fucked off. Great leadership.

Starfield was in development way before Microsoft bought Bethesda. Do we treat that the same way as Redfall? Or is it Microsoft made Hi-Fi Rush and Starfield, and Redfall was in development before MS bought them? Is that the narrative?
 
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I think there might be something in the advantages of having a higher clock speed over more cores especially if a game is unoptimised. Definitely something in the CPU space but maybe its the same with GPUs. However, I still think that it is primarily API related. Direct x12 is crap. Most of the game I have run better in 11 than 12 with the exact same hardware. Can be a 15fps difference at time. The Series X uses the same API. Not unreasonable to think this is the cause.
 

Tripolygon

Banned
I think there might be something in the advantages of having a higher clock speed over more cores especially if a game is unoptimised. Definitely something in the CPU space but maybe its the same with GPUs. However, I still think that it is primarily API related. Direct x12 is crap. Most of the game I have run better in 11 than 12 with the exact same hardware. Can be a 15fps difference at time. The Series X uses the same API. Not unreasonable to think this is the cause.
It’s because parallelization is difficult in software. It’s easier to use fewer faster cores than many slower cores. And GPUs have thousands of cores doing thousands of small jobs synchronously and asynchronously. How do you effectively keep all those cores occupied doing something? That’s why Teraflop is a theoretical measure assuming every ALU is doing something at the same time.
 

Lysandros

Member
This could be true for gen 7 games, PS3 and Xbox were completely different beasts, but now? Xbox and PS5 are basically the same pieces of hardware with only difference being lack of VRS, MS and SFS on PS5, but so far even Xbox only games are rarely using this stuff (nothing uses SFS and mesh shaders).
Primitive shader is not the older version of Mesh Shaders. Primitive shader was proposed as the standard by AMD in 2017 while 2018 Nvidia proposed their implementation which Microsoft adopted in 2019 into DX12U in the form of Mesh Shaders. Primitive shaders still exist in AMD GPUs starting from Vega to RDNA 3.

On AMD GPUs Primitive shaders is what enables Mesh Shaders. How it functions depends on what API you are using it with. In DX12 it functions as Mesh Shaders, but it is the same Primitive Shaders in all AMD GPUs.

Mr. Wang
Certainly, Mesh Shader was adopted as standard in DirectX 12. However, the new geometry pipeline concept originally started with the concept of tidying up the complicated geometry pipeline, making it easier for game developers to use, and to make it easier to extract performance. In other words, it can be said that both AMD and NVIDIA had the same goal as the starting point of the idea. To put it bluntly, Primitive Shader and Mesh Shader have many similarities in terms of functionality, although there are differences in implementation.
So did AMD abandon the Primitive Shader? As for hardware, Primitive Shader still exists, and how to use Mesh Shader is realized with Primitive Shader , it corresponds to Mesh Shader with such an image.

Mr. Wang
Primitive Shader as hardware exists in everything from Radeon RX Vega to the latest RDNA 3-based GPU. When viewed from DirectX 12, Radeon GPU's Primitive Shader is designed to work as a Mesh Shader.
There isn't any significant/special performance upgrade to be gained from using mesh shaders on XSX compared to PS5. UE5 games like Fortnite already use mesh/primitive shaders altogether with compute shaders in both consoles, the enabler AMD hardware is the same. VRS is in use in quite a few PS5 games in its software form which is by no means inferior to hardware VRS. PS5 I/O is still way faster SFS or not. In the end i think that both consoles are broadly underutilized and have room to grow, but i think PS5 can go a bit further in this context to the lower level API. If enough additional development time and resources can be put to it that is which is a rare luxury these days.
 

Tchu-Espresso

likes mayo on everthing and can't dance
Wrong. The GPU that people compare should compare is RTX 3060 due to higher VRAM. RTX 3070 bottlenecks on Ultra settings on 1440p due to VRAM limitation.

Look at RTX 3060 TI performance from Digital trends.


41 FPS average without DLSS ,however, it will not sustain due to lack of VRAM ,therefore, RTX 3060 can sustain because of higher.

So it can easily go around 38 fps average without DLSS and Uncharted unlock VRR on PS5 at 4K is around 40 fps average.
Well above 40fps avg mate.
 
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