sircaw
Banned
I have a ps5 DE £359, its frigging amazing
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Digital Foundry: Heard that Xbox Series S Is A "Pain" For Developers Due To Memory Issues
- Thread starter IbizaPocholo
- Start date
- Opinion Hardware
- Status
assurdum
Banned
Call me moron but you can have the quadruple of the resolution with a 399 machine. This remain the big problem of the Series S existence. Until ps5 DE wasnt considered in the equation, Series S can be ok. But when you look to what you can have with just 100 bucks more, it's a big meh for Series S performance, without offence.
Last edited:
OmegaSupreme
advanced basic bitch
That's also the truth. The PS5 Digital is a far better value. Shame you can't find one!
Riky
$MSFT
Just because you know someone who had to have an S instead of an X it doesn't apply that's the case for everyone. Some people just want to save £200 and play Fortnite. I know somebody who didn't want an X because it's "big and ugly" so got an S.
There are all sorts of reasons including the one you said why people pick one up.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Fair enough. I think Bloomberg said that the PS5 BOM was at around $450 but that included the UHD. So the $399 SKU is probably losing them $30 a pop so they obviously undershipped it. Even the pre-orders were roughly a 20-80 split according to bestbuy and they pretty much dropped that console after that because they would rather sell a console that gives them a $50 breathing room. I think thats the retailer cut so they were probably selling it at cost minus $10-20 for shipping and distribution.
I still think Sony shouldve done what MS did and aim for a $500 machine. The 448 GBps ram bandwidth is clearly unsufficient seeing as how games like HFW cannot downscale to 1440p to double the framerate. They shouldve gone with 520 GBps minimum and preferrably Microsoft's 556 gbps vram.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Same, best bang for the buck.I have a ps5 DE £359, its frigging amazing
OmegaSupreme
advanced basic bitch
Quote me where I said it was literally everyone. My point stands. People have settled.
Riky
$MSFT
I just said including the reason you stated. It's not the only reason though.
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
DarkMage619
$MSFT
It's pretty obvious that the XSS is the best value proposition out there. Games + a system is better than a system that exists on paper but it's barely manufactured, tough to find at retail, and has one source for digital software.
There has been no proof it's existence has affected any other platforms just like lower end graphics cards haven't hurt higher end ones. I'm really looking forward to seeing how things will turn out this generation. Will it be customers who actually bought one or people who generally are against the Xbox brand that decides its fate?
There has been no proof it's existence has affected any other platforms just like lower end graphics cards haven't hurt higher end ones. I'm really looking forward to seeing how things will turn out this generation. Will it be customers who actually bought one or people who generally are against the Xbox brand that decides its fate?
assurdum
Banned
The hell of nonsense is that. Can you find me a game at 60 fps on Series X which has a significant higher resolution than the ps5 thanks to his bandwidth? I know just Hitman 3 and the resolution is still quite high on ps5. But game which stay around 1080p-1440p hardly have a significant boost in resolution just for the difference in bandwith between the two next gen, on multiplat at least.
Last edited:
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Native 4k 60 fps is a gigantic waste of resources. These are baseline specs for next gen. Nothing more. If you want a native 4k 60 fps machine, PCs are there for you. You can also wait 3-4 years for mid gen refreshes.im dismissing all consoles
you should've noticed by now, i'm calling them blatant 1080p 60 fps gaming consoles over and over again, is it not considered attacking? to my eyes, they're simply that. and i also say that it is a disgrace that they couldn't target 4k 60 fps. they can run all last gen games at 4k 60 fps for all I care. ps4 also ran tons of ps3 games at 1080p 60 fps. it was not the end result the console was targeting though.
i was so hyped when i heard ac:valhalla was going to be 4k 60 fps on ps5 and sx. i felt like "nice, if the games like valhalla runs at 4k 60 fps, then it means we can have tons of 1440-1620p nextgen games, and series s would be comfortable at 900p-1080p 60 fps). and then the game comes out, oh god, 1100ps... 1200ps... 760ps... everywhere. from that point on, I lost all my respect to all consoles altogether. i hoped valhalla would be an exception. instead, even worse ports came to be. like dying light 2 and GOTG (in the case of dl2 and gotg, both can actually run at 1300-1440p 60fps. both devs purposefully gimped the console ports for reasons I have no idea about)
maybe 1200p looks better on 4k screen because temporal upscaler has more pixels to work with. sadly, that's not a case with 1080p.
native 4k 60 fps should've been the standard. sacrifice unnecessary visual settings if necessary. because i know there are lots of them. ac valhalla is one good example where resolution is sacrificed instead of visual settings. 1200p sounds too funny on a native 4k screen. i dunno man. these consoles are a 4k scam to my eyes. here's my attack, if you want to
I mean I dont understand why you were expecting 6900xt levels of performance from a $500 machine. To run LAST gen games at 4k 60 fps, you would need a console 8x more powerful than the PS4 which was 1.84 tflops. 4x increase in resolution at 2x the framerate. That gives us 14.7 tflops needed to run 1080p 30 fps PS4 games. The PS5 is 10.2 tflops with IPC gains from GCN to Polaris to RDNA making it a 15 tflops GCN 1.0 GPU. So you technically got what you wanted. It;s just that if you want next gen visuals with next gen AI simulations, physics, destruction and photoreasitic Matrix quality visuals, you would have to aim for a far lower resolution. Everyone knew this going in so Im surprised you expected different.
My 3080 was giving me 4k 45 fps in the Matrix. A 4x increase in pixels over the PS5/XSX and another 50% increase in framerate. Thats what 6x higher pixel budget. Just buy a 3080 and you would have all the 4k 60 fps games you ever wanted. Let consoles be the lowest common denominator or this industry is never going to move beyond last gen technology, and I mean tech, not visuals.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I have a ps5 DE £359, its frigging amazing
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
What are you talking about? Where have you been the last two years? MS has their own bottlenecks due to the issues ive mentioned over the last couple of pages. Split ram, slower clocks, wider CU might all be holding back the XSX from reaching its fullest potential. Doesnt mean Sony wouldve run into the same bottlenecks had they gone with 556 GBps. Doesnt mean the PS5 isnt getting bottlenecked by 448 GBps of RAM it has to share with the CPU.
Guardians of the Galaxy has no issues running the game at well over 60 fps in 1440p on a console equivalent graphics card on PC. Something is causing a bottleneck on the PS5 and the XSX. On the XSX, we have postulated that their slower pool of ram might be the issue, or their 52 CUs might not getting fully utilized (the Cerny hypothesis), but on the PS5 side, no one seems to have any idea why this console is struggling running some games at 60 fps. The only thing I can point to is the 448 GBps of ram bandwidth it has to share with the CPU. My 2080 has no such issues because it has a dedicated ram pool and its 448 GBps of ram did not ever cause any bottlenecks whenever i went from native 4k 30 fps to 1440p 60 fps.
sircaw
Banned
And now with the new subscription service, and the games on that list, i am really shocked tbh, i think sony has hit the nail on the head in both best bang for your buck in both departments
These last few days have been an absolute killer by Sony.
Last edited:
assurdum
Banned
Where do you heard exactly 448 is a bottleneck for the ps5 CPU? Why use your presumptiom has a fact? I highly doubt have 556Gbs of bandwith would have increased significantly the resolution in Horizon at 60 fps. The pc is a complete different beast in the RAM setup. Furthermore the ps5 you guess seems more expensive than just 499. Have practically the series X advantage on without his bottlenecks, on ps5 sku, it's quite more expensive.
Last edited:
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
DE production about to receive a boost, with free trials to PS+ Deluxe slapped on the box. I heard that was a great value to do so over the years.
All without graphical/performance and SSD size compromise.
Last edited:
Bernd Lauert
Banned
Yep, XSS + Gamepass is the best value in gaming. Now, if the PS5DE was actually available, and with the launch of PS+ Extra, it'd definitely be a close race. But I imagine by the time people can actually freely buy the PS5DE, the XSS will be $249 or maybe even $199, so it's gonna be a different situation again.It's pretty obvious that the XSS is the best value proposition out there. Games + a system is better than a system that exists on paper but it's barely manufactured, tough to find at retail, and has one source for digital software.
There has been no proof it's existence has affected any other platforms just like lower end graphics cards haven't hurt higher end ones. I'm really looking forward to seeing how things will turn out this generation. Will it be customers who actually bought one or people who generally are against the Xbox brand that decides its fate?
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I mean I literally posted the reasons in my posts. A GPU just as powerful as the PS5 is able to run the game at 60 fps but the PS5 cannot because in your own words, it has a different ram architecture with dedicated 448GBps of vram so its a pretty decent assumption. Hence, me asking for more bandwidth.
assurdum
Banned
You can't just increase the bandwith to boost the perfomance significantly. You have the redesign the array config too and probably the cache scrubbers; rebalance everything. The gpu is thinking around 36 CUs. There is a reason because Series X has others bottlenecks.
Theorically PS5 was designed to maxed out the perfomance from such hardware. A nip and tuck here and there not boost the perfomance that high.
Last edited:
DarkMage619
$MSFT
Chuckle indeed! Why would anyone go with Sony fans opinions on the XSS over people who are actually in the know? Just like Sony fans don't run to Xbox fans to get a perspective about the PlayStation. I'm much more comfortable letting the market decide.
Any bets on when MS pulls the XSS off the shelves?
Last edited:
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Chuckle indeed! Why would anyone go with Sony fans opinions on the XSS over people who are actually in the know? Just like Sony fans don't run to Xbox fans to get a perspective about the PlayStation. I'm much more comfortable letting the market decide.
sircaw
Banned
don't forget the amazing controller, its unbeatable value sony is offering.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
You are literally in a thread where developers are complaining about memory being the bottleneck in the xss. Something you fully agreed with until I dared to point out the PS5 might have the same problem albeit at higher framerates and resolutions.
Not a good look.
assurdum
Banned
And what developers has said the reason of the resolution of Horizon 2 at 60 fps was the 448 bandwith of ps5? There is big difference between to say Series S hardware cause trouble to the developers and ps5 can't run Horizon at higher resolution because 448 GB is the problem. Furthermore I'm more inclined to think it's more a CPU limit than gpu/bandwith.
Last edited:
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Lego Star wars Skywalker Saga.
PS5 and Series S run the game at same resolutions with Series S having better performance.
Series X is like a remaster there.
assurdum
Banned
You mean the game where the developers said was a mess to code because the engine sucks? It's like to say ps5 can handle 4x resolution of Series X because The Tourist exhist.
Last edited:
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Not my concern, it's an example.
assurdum
Banned
Nice try.
Topher
Gold Member
What? How so?
Frame Rate mode:
"PS5 in the 60fps Mode uses a dynamic resolution with the highest resolution found being approximately 3456x1944 and the lowest resolution found being 1920x1080."
"Xbox Series S in the 60fps Mode uses a dynamic resolution with the highest resolution found being approximately 2094x1178 and the lowest resolution found being approximately 1248x1080."
Quality mode:
"PS5 in the 30fps Mode uses a dynamic resolution with the highest resolution found being approximately 3840x2160 and the lowest resolution found being approximately 2560x1440. "
"Xbox Series S in the 30fps Mode uses a dynamic resolution with the highest resolution found being approximately 2176x1224 and the lowest resolution found being approximately 2048x1152."
Last edited:
assurdum
Banned
Not his concern. Reality is subjective
Last edited:
BlueHawk
Neo Member
Even with it being tricky, and arguably a not as premium experience, the Series S is incredibly cheap. A cheap option still is a controller linked to a phone and streaming Gamepass.
Perhaps the budget option is a Phone+Controller(Xbox) and a disc-less PS5. Although the Diskless is a bit naff and I had to swap it for a disk one personally.
Perhaps the budget option is a Phone+Controller(Xbox) and a disc-less PS5. Although the Diskless is a bit naff and I had to swap it for a disk one personally.
assurdum
Banned
Err. Series S is disc less too.
BlueHawk
Neo Member
Yes, but due to Gamepass that does not matter.
PS5 I had to swap the diskless for disk version because the digital games were so expensive(£70) in comparison to disk version(around £55-60)+can sell games after:
Last edited:
assurdum
Banned
Nonsense. You even have for free the pscollection on ps5 and psplus will become practically the gamepass alternative.
Last edited:
Md Ray
Member
MisterXDTV
Member
This works if you use Series S as a secondary system... Just like I do
PS5 + Series S is a great combo...
But as a stand-alone console it is really poor value because big titles from third-parties don't come out on GamePass Day 1
And Microsoft exclusives keep getting delayed........
And you are left with:
- Much worse performance
- Much worse image quality
- Half the storage space
Last edited:
assurdum
Banned
He can spot immediately the difference between 1080p and 1008p meanwhile it can live happily and barely care of 540p with the same DRS. The power of the brand.
Last edited:
BlueHawk
Neo Member
This is true. I am just saying from my experience, but thankfully Sony are starting to see the light and making the Diskless option more viable.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
It's in the description itself.
First let's establish the qualifier that hardly anyone would play this in the 30 FPS mode, yes ? yes.
Series S in performance mode is between 1080p and ~1200p.
PS5 in performance mode often drops to 1080p or thereabout where Series X is either close to 1440p or 2160p.
The Series S's lowest bound is 1080p, the PS5 is also 1080p in various tested locations where SX is much higher, Often between 2x and 4x higher.
Then there's the performance:
The order is PS5, Series X, Series S. You can read the full breakdown here:
Series S has a nearly 10% advantage in consistency over PS5 here.
Last edited:
DarkMage619
$MSFT
The strength of the XSS is the price. It is a budget console the PS5 is not. Can you play Metro Exodus with raytracing for $299 + the cost of the game anywhere else including PC?
assurdum
Banned
Still use a game with a problematic development is very lame.It's in the description itself.
First let's establish the qualifier that hardly anyone would play this in the 30 FPS mode, yes ? yes.
Series S in performance mode is between 1080p and ~1200p.
PS5 in performance mode often drops to 1080p or thereabout where Series X is either close to 1440p or 2160p.
The Series S's lowest bound is 1080p, the PS5 is also 1080p in various tested locations where SX is much higher, Often between 2x and 4x higher.
Then there's the performance:
The order is PS5, Series X, Series S. You can read the full breakdown here:
Series S has a nearly 10% advantage in consistency over PS5 here.
Riky
$MSFT
There is also the fact you can buy keys off third party sellers for Xbox. This week or so I've got,
Crysis 2 remastered £4.29
Crysis 3 remastered £4.82
Shadow Warrior 3 £3.88
Evil Dead £8.59
Mixture of Gamivo and Eneba.
Evil Dead alone is £34.99 on the PS Store.
Topher
Gold Member
It's in the description itself.
First let's establish the qualifier that hardly anyone would play this in the 30 FPS mode, yes ? yes.
Series S in performance mode is between 1080p and ~1200p.
PS5 in performance mode often drops to 1080p or thereabout where Series X is either close to 1440p or 2160p.
The Series S's lowest bound is 1080p, the PS5 is also 1080p in various tested locations where SX is much higher, Often between 2x and 4x higher.
Then there's the performance:
The order is PS5, Series X, Series S. You can read the full breakdown here:
Series S has a nearly 10% advantage in consistency over PS5 here.
PS5s “1080p” is 1920x1080.
XSSs “1080p” is 1248x1080.
These are not the same.
The highest resolution for XSS is barely higher than PS5s lowest resolution.
PS5 low: 1920x1080
XSS high: 2094x1178
PS5s high resolution is 3456x1944 which XSS doesn't come close to touching at any point.
So saying "PS5 and Series S run the game at same resolutions" is simply false.
Right
adamsapple
? Tell me where I am wrong.
Last edited:
yamaci17
Member
now this hits hard. geez, what a good perspective to look at his approach.
Riky
$MSFT
Not really, I never said I could spot the difference, in fact as I said earlier people have little clue what resolution a game is running at until the pixel counting channels tell them.
They are lower bounds anyway so like we said earlier not the average performance you are normally seeing.
Md Ray
Member
Now this thread is going to devolve into an endless XSS vs PS5 price discussion...
XSS is fine, MS will be fine. You don't have to take everything about XSS like it's some sort of a personal attack towards you.
Last edited:
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
yamaci17
Member
but still, people waged huge wars to claim sx is the better console by %10-15 margin. but in the end, if we accept that the visual difference is not going to be noticeable, wouldn't that make the whole war irrelevant and useless?
Riky
$MSFT
I use them and Eneba and Gamivo.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked