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[Gaiff]

Once upon a time, FF was one of the best-selling franchises on the planet. It still sells well but its numbers aren't exactly top-tier anymore, with the best-selling retail game still being FF VII at 14.9M according to Google. While excellent, this is a series that used to outsell Zelda in its heyday but now, it can't even do half the numbers of TOTK.

Many franchises have experienced their greatest success by moving to an open-world format; The Witcher, Elden Ring, and Zelda just to name a few. Additionally, some of the best-selling current series are also open-world or have been for a long time. RDR, GTA, Assassin's Creed, Marvel's Spider-Man, and many others.

I know how many of you loathe open-world games for their formulaic and derivative nature. Furthermore, many of them trade depth for size and turn tight, well-paced games into boring slogs that don't seem to want to end. Still, the proof is in the pudding and open-world games tend to attract the masses and people seem to love them judging by their mind-boggling sales numbers.

With that said, does FF need to go open-world to break through the 20M or 30M sales barrier and be up there with the best-sellers every year? Or shall it forever remain at the same level?

 

[German Hops]

Go back to turn based.

 

[March Climber]

Open world vs Linear isn't the biggest issue with Final Fantasy.

Edit: ...and neither is turn based vs action.

It's writing and pacing.

 

[NecrosaroIII]

Just keep making them more like FFXIV.

 

[Cert.in.Death]

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

It needs to go back to what made it the premier JRPG of its time: turn based with deep RPG elements, a long adventure with many companions. No twitch action, no open world. Just go back to your roots. If you build it, they will come.

 

[JimmyRustler]

Didn’t they already try and pretty mich fail with FF15?

 

[Nankatsu]

No it doesn't. It's needs to stick with it's japanese roots and discard western ideas. Simple as that.

 

[Metnut]

Please no. Make more games with a similar template to FF16 but just improve on it. Better side quests, actual dungeons, deeper inventory system, bigger towns/cities.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

Turn based combat sucks. The only reason those old FF games are playable nowadays is because of auto-battle and fast forward.

I don’t really care if it’s open world, action combat, whatever. Just give it lots of depth and lots of stuff to play around with. Lots of party members, character builds, lots of equipment with different effects and interesting synergies. Secrets, optional bosses, god-tier endgame equipment.

I want to see nerds on forums everywhere arguing about the best party members, skills, gear, etc.

 

[Gaiff]

Didn’t they already try and pretty mich fail with FF15?

Eh is it open-world? I played it a few hours and I think it's like semi open-world with many large open areas but certainly not like Elden Ring, GTA, or BOTW. It's more akin to Baldur's Gate III or Divinity.

 

[Guilty_AI]

They need better writers. Preferably ones that don't take inspiration from game of thrones.

 

[brian0057]

Open world vs Linear isn't the biggest issue with Final Fantasy.

Edit: ...and neither is turn based vs action.

It's writing and pacing.

So keep Tetsuya Nomura away from the series as much as possible.

 

[LakeOf9]

Didn’t they already try and pretty mich fail with FF15?

Yes but thats because they forgot to make it good

 

[March Climber]

So keep Tetsuya Nomura away from the series as much as possible.

Funny thing is, Nomura is the one helping to reign in FF 7 Remake from being even crazier. Your issue is with Nojima and Kitase. Everyone keeps pointing their guns at the wrong person and Nomura is taking all of the heat for it lol.

Final Fantasy 7 Remake’s Producer Wanted More Drastic Changes To Original Story

gamingbolt.com

 

[SlimySnake]

Technically both FF15 and FF16 are open world. Just on a smaller scope. All the open world tropes like side quests, vast open lands with nothing to fucking do, and bad pacing are present in these games already.

FF like any other role playing game needs to actually deliver on fucking role playing. Learn from Baldurs Gate.

 

[L*][*N*K]

I don’t think that is going to happen, FFXV is open world and to me it is the worst of the series, I actually think FF appeal is kinda meh now days I don’t know why.

 

[Punished Miku]

I figured they were not knowledgeable about action combat but understand RPGs. Bring in DMC guy to catch up sounds rational.

I just dont even know anymore. At least CBU1 has always been good. Tragically wasting the top talent on a decade of remakes may be the dumbest thing theyve ever done. They need to just make what they are good at and passionate about developing. Chasing trends gets them in trouble I think, but maybe thats why it sells as well as it does. I dont have any advice for them other than release CBU1 to do whatever they want.

 

[Jigsaah]

I want to fly a frickin Ragnarok again. Let me land on some random Archipelago and just fight whatever is there. This corridor fighting shit is not where it's at. Ever since 13 I've felt this way, yet they keep doubling down on this formula. I'll stick to FFXIV thanks. FF7 Remake was like this too, but the combat was so good that I almost didn't mind it as much. I was definitely corridor and gave the illusion of non-linearity, but ultimately there was one right way to go with little need to revisit areas unless the story put you back there.

In short. Yes bring back open world exploration. I don't care if it's turn based or not. Just make the world more explorable again.

 

[StueyDuck]

There's 15 other ff games you should play first before making this thread

 

[YukiOnna]

Nope. It just needs to be story driven with a fun battle system (irrelevant if its ARPG, turn based, or hybrid) and a good game overall that gives you a good sense of adventure. Continue doing what it does, and it'll bounce back (although I think it's selling just fine).

It's just a matter of its low image due mainline titles in the PS3/PS4 era.

 

[R6Rider]

They need to make actual good games.

 

[Gaiff]

Nope. It just needs to be story driven with a fun battle system (irrelevant if its ARPG, turn based, or hybrid) and a good game overall that gives you a good sense of adventure. Continue doing what it does, and it'll bounce back (although I think it's selling just fine).

It's just a matter of its low image due mainline titles in the PS3/PS4 era.

Oh, it is selling just fine but it has been leapfrogged by tons of games now. I recall back in the 90s and early 2000s, FF was one of the biggest names in gaming whenever they released a title. It's still highly popular but I think we both agree it can't compete with Zelda anymore or even Elden Ring which came from much more humble beginnings. Now, I wouldn't be surprised if Baldur's Gate III also ends up outselling FF XVI.

 

[Lokaum D+]

Eh is it open-world? I played it a few hours and I think it's like semi open-world with many large open areas but certainly not like Elden Ring, GTA, or BOTW. It's more akin to Baldur's Gate III or Divinity.

Is the only true open world FF to date.

 

[Freeman76]

Just make it an RPG instead of a linear action game

 

[Killer8]

I think Rebirth could be the litmus test for how well an open world FF game could work in today's era.

The series has always dabbled with world map exploration, so I don't think i'd mind a fully open world FF much (despite how much I reel against open world's over-representation in game design). The best solution would pretty much be what the PS1 games already had: small-ish chunks of explorable map, dotted with towns/landmarks where the story beats happen, and separated by sea (or air?) which would eliminate the need to make the overall map too sprawling and unnecessarily large.

 

[NecrosaroIII]

Turn based combat sucks. The only reason those old FF games are playable nowadays is because of auto-battle and fast forward.

I don’t really care if it’s open world, action combat, whatever. Just give it lots of depth and lots of stuff to play around with. Lots of party members, character builds, lots of equipment with different effects and interesting synergies. Secrets, optional bosses, god-tier endgame equipment.

I want to see nerds on forums everywhere arguing about the best party members, skills, gear, etc.

GOOD turn-based combat doesn't suck. Typically FF has lacked strategic depth though, which does suck

 

[pleaseinsertdisctwo]

It does not need to be open world, but each FF should provide a decent amount of rewarding exploration and freedom in terms of customization, and I say this as someone who has VIIR and XIII in their top 5 FF’s. It should also stop trying to chase trends. VIIR has the right idea; XV and XVI do not. And with XVI I’m talking about how it’s blatantly trying to be a Sony Character Action Cinematic Experience (with some MMO quests).

I’m expecting Rebirth to be very well-received, as Remake’s biggest flaw, outside of the poorly implemented Whispers, was its maddening linearity and restrictiveness. Though that’ll have its own sales hurdle of being a direct sequel.


I also think that XVI’s “look,” or art direction, wasn’t exactly eye-catching. Whereas something like XIII still looks phenomenal to this day with its colorful, imaginative world and characters, and consistently great cutscenes.

 

[Morrie’s wig shop]

Oh, it is selling just fine but it has been leapfrogged by tons of games now. I recall back in the 90s and early 2000s, FF was one of the biggest names in gaming whenever they released a title. It's still highly popular but I think we both agree it can't compete with Zelda anymore or even Elden Ring which came from much more humble beginnings. Now, I wouldn't be surprised if Baldur's Gate III also ends up outselling FF XVI.

Oh yeah, late 90s going into the early 2000s. FF was top dog.

Sheeeeit, me an a buddy went to watch Event Horizon at the theater and low and behold FF7 has a preview (first time seeing a game advertised at the theater before the movie starts.
They played Sephiroth theme.

 

[pleaseinsertdisctwo]

I think Rebirth could be the litmus test for how well an open world FF game could work in today's era.

The series has always dabbled with world map exploration, so I don't think i'd mind a fully open world FF much (despite how much I reel against open world's over-representation in game design). The best solution would pretty much be what the PS1 games already had: small-ish chunks of explorable map, dotted with towns/landmarks where the story beats happen, and separated by sea (or air?) which would eliminate the need to make the overall map too sprawling and unnecessarily large.

I’m pretty sure it’s been confirmed that Rebirth isn’t open world. It’ll just have large zones that provide room for exploration. Though I wouldn’t be surprised if there might be a section or two of the game where you can do things out-of-order.


And IMO CBU1 is quite good at creating fun places to explore when they’re not busy making their games super linear. I loved Gran Pulse, XIII-2 and LR had very fun and rewarding exploration, and Kingdom Hearts III’s Carribean world was fantastic.

 

[YukiOnna]

Oh, it is selling just fine but it has been leapfrogged by tons of games now. I recall back in the 90s and early 2000s, FF was one of the biggest names in gaming whenever they released a title. It's still highly popular but I think we both agree it can't compete with Zelda anymore or even Elden Ring which came from much more humble beginnings. Now, I wouldn't be surprised if Baldur's Gate III also ends up outselling FF XVI.

If I had to say, the quality of games and absolute development hell the PS3 era was with XIII, Original XIV, and XV that did heavy damage to the brand. XIV was a nice revival, but it's online. VII Remake was a great SP title but it's a Remake of an existing title, XVI was the first mainline in years and naturally met with lot of skepticism. Overall, it's main job was to win back a good image, so the following games (and VIIR-2) need to continue this good will and it'll be up back. Ultimately, it's just about being a good game, I think. Sort of bad example since this title didn't face such a situation, but Ragnarok & GoW aren't necessarily open-world and elevated the franchise. Y'know Elden Ring came after 3 amazing Dark Souls titles, a Samurai Action game, and now even the once niche Armored Core is getting so much attention...

Although, my bias could ultimately be coming through where I'd like them to just play to their strengths and iterate on that. There's absolutely a market for these titles to get to that level. If VIIR-2's approach proves to be a hit, it could change that easily business wise.

 

[pleaseinsertdisctwo]

If I had to say, the quality of games and absolute development hell the PS3 era was with XIII, Original XIV, and XV that did heavy damage to the brand. XIV was a nice revival, but it's online. VII Remake was a great SP title but it's a Remake of an existing title, XVI was the first mainline in years and naturally met with lot of skepticism. Overall, it's main job was to win back a good image, so the following games (and VIIR-2) need to continue this good will and it'll be up back. Ultimately, it's just about being a good game, I think. Sort of bad example since this title didn't face such a situation, but Ragnarok & GoW aren't necessarily open-world and elevated the franchise. Y'know Elden Ring came after 3 amazing Dark Souls titles, a Samurai Action game, and now even the once niche Armored Core is getting so much attention...

Although, my bias could ultimately be coming through where I'd like them to just play to their strengths and iterate on that. There's absolutely a market for these titles to get to that level. If VIIR-2's approach proves to be a hit, it could change that easily business wise.

I don’t see how Rebirth won’t be a hit, at least gameplay-wise.

The combat of Remake was largely praised, and the best part: it was an original combat system that was also faithful to OG VII and the series’ roots.

Rebirth will not only come with additions and fixes to the combat, but it’ll totally fix Remake’s egregious linearity.


I’m just personally scared at what they’ll do with the story.

 

[Mung]

No. Ff15 was already open world. A zoned system works much better for narrative centered games imo.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

GOOD turn-based combat doesn't suck. Typically FF has lacked strategic depth though, which does suck

The only FF game with good turn based combat was FF Tactics (which hey, I’ll take another FFT any day).

The rest of the turn based FF games are brain dead simple and repetitive as hell. Just pick direct damage abilities from a menu til you win. Occasionally it’ll get as complex as “heal the guy with low HP”, “use the element that hits their weak point” or even “don’t attack while enemy is doing their counter attack stance”.

Same is true for the majority of turn based JRPGs.

 

[Clear]

The fact is that none of the so-called "big boys" offer anything like the variety of the FF franchise. Which is a great strength the series has.

Then whole idea that there's some sort of perfect formula that FF should coalesce into just flies in the face of what the franchise is.

 

[Shifty1897]

16 is an amazing game that just needed a good editor to trim the fat. A Final Fantasy game can be only 30 hours long and still be good.

 

[Sephimoth]

When it comes to Final fantasy, my thoughts are...

...to FF6-9 - great characters, top tier music, good-to-okay story. The stories weren't ever ground breaking, but it was the scenarios and character moments that made it.
I'll take 10's battle system too.

 

[sncvsrtoip]

Technically both FF15 and FF16 are open world. Just on a smaller scope. All the open world tropes like side quests, vast open lands with nothing to fucking do, and bad pacing are present in these games already.

FF like any other role playing game needs to actually deliver on fucking role playing. Learn from Baldurs Gate.

Nah they dont need, hard to say there is roleplaying in Witcher 3 and still its one of best rpg ever.

 

[MagiusNecros]

It depends entirely on execution. Think I'd prefer a a Xenoblade Chronicles route for FF more then anything. Not sure if SE can pull off a Sandbox Final Fantasy game. I think a compelling narrative with a good cast of well written characters would be a good start.

 

[SkylineRKR]

Personally I would like it if Square goes back to VI-IX. Scale down the graphics, so its possible to create a dozen of actual towns and a world map, and some more complex dungeon layouts. Art direction and atmosphere are key.

The most fun I had in years with FF was with the VIII Remaster actually.

 

[YukiOnna]

I don’t see how Rebirth won’t be a hit, at least gameplay-wise.

The combat of Remake was largely praised, and the best part: it was an original combat system that was also faithful to OG VII and the series’ roots.

Rebirth will not only come with additions and fixes to the combat, but it’ll totally fix Remake’s egregious linearity.

I meant in the sense of combining this open/vast freedom design with the tight narrative FF is known for (sort of like Xenoblade 2/3 I guess). I know they didn't say it was open-world or semi, but it does feel like an attempt at what FFXV did or what the original Versus XIII was meant to do in translating older FF's world map into a 3D plane. If they can nail the balance and the game is well received it would open up more attempts to try that. I'm sure they'll make great additions to combat feel and already not feeling so constrained or clunky in movement.

In any case, Rebirth also hitting it off will also be beneficial for XVII and we'd be long past that rough bump in the road.

I’m just personally scared at what they’ll do with the story.

I'm excited, but I just like new. It makes speculating fun and waiting for what happens next.

 

[Killer8]

I’m pretty sure it’s been confirmed that Rebirth isn’t open world. It’ll just have large zones that provide room for exploration. Though I wouldn’t be surprised if there might be a section or two of the game where you can do things out-of-order.


And IMO CBU1 is quite good at creating fun places to explore when they’re not busy making their games super linear. I loved Gran Pulse, XIII-2 and LR had very fun and rewarding exploration, and Kingdom Hearts III’s Carribean world was fantastic.

Yeah, this is pretty much what i'm meaning by what I want from an open world FF - large-ish sized chunks of map to explore for a section of the story before it moves on to a new continent.

 

[Raonak]

The games just need to reach the same quality level as the older era.

FF16 is extremely high quality at points (characters, boss fights, presentation, and set pieces), but has very low quality in other points (sidequests, rewards exploration)
Same issue that FF15 and FF13 had.
You can just see the cut corners in a lot of places.

I don't think making FF openworld will help sales (FF15 was openworld)
I don't think taking it back to turn based will help sales either.

 

[semiconscious]

you mean 'rejoin the big boys', op? final fantasy was a big boy well before most of the above-named big boys were big boys...

that said, to the extent that ffxiv is widely acknowledged as still being the best ff since ffxii, i'd say all that's really been missing in the other games is a charming, engaging, consistent world vision, open or not...

 

[Fbh]

Square need to get their shit together.
Going open world is going to do nothing for them if they are going to fill it with terrible sidequest, bad loot and big empty areas with nothing to do or find in them. They couldn't even come up with decent side content for fairly linear games like FF7R and FFXVI, what hopes do they have to fill an actual open world with worthwhile content?

The biggest issue with Square at the moment is how inconsistent their quality is, not between the different titles (though that is an issue too) but the stark contrast of quality WITHIN each game , instead of making games that are a consistent 8/10 they make games that will take you through a 9/10 sequence and then have you play through a 2/10 one next.
FFXVI (and FF7R too) feels like you are playing 2 different games by 2 different dev teams. One moment you are playing through a fun main story mission in an awesome looking location with enjoyable combat, spectacular looking boss battles and great cutscenes, and the next you are taking on some of the most basic and uninspired quests I've ever played from stiff and dated looking characters.

To this day I still think that for some reason (skill? internal systems? bad management?) Square is just simply unable to keep up with the production values they want to put in their games. It's like it takes everything they have in them to make 20 hours of worthwhile content and the rest is handheld by the interns or something

 

[Mozzarella]

Final Fantasy fans cant be pleased, i think its one of the worst fandoms in gaming imho.

 

[Zephyranthes]

Linearity is not the problem. I still hold Final Fantasy X to be the overall best non-MMO game in the series, and it is extremely linear until about the 90% mark. The reason why the linearity works is because it makes sense in the context of Yuna's pilgrimage, and the game leverages it to have a tightly focused narrative.

The problem with FF, in my view, is a lack of stylistic identity. Look at every mainline FF game that has come out from the PS2 era onwards....none of them look or play anything like the others. Square tries to reinvent the wheel every time a new one comes out, and the result is a series where each new game is likely to disappoint a large chunk of people who happened to like one of the previous games, even if the new game happens to be really good. By contrast, look at other long-running JRPG franchises like Persona or Dragon Quest....they continue to be successful because they consistently deliver what their fans want, refining the working formula over time instead of constantly trying new formulas.

 

[FoxMcChief]

Why does it need to hang with the big boys? If anything, they need to make their games smaller and focus more on great turned based mechanics and other good side content than flashy cutscenes.

 

[Dream-Knife]

It needs to have good games for a change.

Of course I hear 14 is amazing, but I can't get into MMOs.

 

[Killer8]

One thing that would certainly help keep the series fresh is experimenting with different art styles. When the FFIX: Memoria Project video dropped, it got over 1 million views and an overwhelming majority of likes (plus a lot of SQUARE-ENIX HIRE THIS MAN comments):



It's undeniable that there is a desire for Final Fantasy to return to animated art styles like this. It shouldn't be relegated to Dragon Quest and Kingdom Hearts. Of course the demo looks a little tacky - it's a proof of concept put together by fans in Unreal Engine 5 after all - but with some polish on the level of something like Kena: Bridge of Spirits, I can imagine it could look incredible.

It also helps that an open-world with stylized visuals would likely be more forgiving to pull off than pursuing photo-realism.