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Druckmann on Half-Life

Ploid 3.0

Member
Every so often we must remind Valve that HL3 still doesn't exist. This is how order is restored.

Crowbar skins for TF2, Head Crab pet for DOTA2 will shut them up and give more cushion for money bed.

I think the sad truth of the matter is that the risks greatly outweigh the rewards, and Valve simply doesn't need the money HL3 would bring. Think about what they easily minted just from Dota2/TI related stuff. How much they must make a year from Steam itself. From sales of their existing games, and microtransactions.

Think about how many millions of copies of HL3 they'd have to sell for it to even mildly stir them to action.

Gabe thought he nearly destroyed Valve making HL2 the process was so grueling. It's hard to imagine them overcoming all of that to make HL3 just to please a section of fans. Fans they haven't really paid attention to for quite some time.

They have new fans now, fans they must satisfy. Some of which are old HL fans that just gave up. More skins and hats!!!

Seriously valve needs to just get one of their movie people to make a HL Episode 3 short that wraps everything up, and end it.
 
If you don't enjoy a cup of tea that wins over 200 tea of the year awards and sells like hot cakes, just accept its not for you but must be a very fine tea. Your opinion just doesn't carry enough weight to change that. Sorry.


You are saying things are objectively good. Think about that for a second. Labeling something good is always a valuation. Some criteria for labeling enjoy more social credibility than others, but that does not change the fact that others are capable of determining their own sets of good and bad separate from those societally condoned ones, and then those valuations form their realities. This is like life 101: people have different feelings of good and bad and then make decisions based on them.

And yes, someone can say an award winning cup of tea is shit and then it means it is shit to them.
Present-day Valve is unable to do anything but rehash other people's mods and make pretty skins for them. Don't talk to me about innovation.

This is also true.
 

VinFTW

Member
What are you smoking? I wanna try a hit.

What exactly has ND done that's innovative in the past decade?

They're one of the best game developers in the world and tLoU is probably my 4th favorite game of all time but I'd never classify them as "innovative". They take ideas and master them, not really innovate on them.
 

Majmun

Member
What exactly has ND done that's innovative in the past decade?

They're one of the best game developers in the world and tLoU is probably my 4th favorite game of all time but I'd never classify them as "innovative". They take ideas and master them, not really innovate on them.

I'd say quite a few games try to copy Uncharted's style of presentation and gameplay. The franchise and its presentation made quite an impact on the industry.

New Tomb Raider being the biggest example.
 

Hoje0308

Banned
Good job, GAF!

1345239693_504_FT171692_foghorn-leghorn-thats-a-joke-son-you-missed-it-flew-right-by-ya.jpg
 

Ploid 3.0

Member
What if the reason Valve hasn't made a new Half-Life episode or game is because they haven't found a innovative feature to build it around?

Guys let Valve off the hook with the innovation thing, please.

Portals in Half Life 3, believe!
 

RooMHM

Member
Present-day Valve is unable to do anything but rehash other people's mods and make pretty skins for them. Don't talk to me about innovation.
I m stil talking about innovation because of past achievements in each franchises.

Also, it s true Portal and TF2 weren t innovative...
 

fastmower

Member
What exactly has ND done that's innovative in the past decade?

They're one of the best game developers in the world and tLoU is probably my 4th favorite game of all time but I'd never classify them as "innovative". They take ideas and master them, not really innovate on them.
What innovations can you attribute to valve? I think your "mastery not innovation" argument applies to valve as well.
 
What exactly has ND done that's innovative in the past decade?

They're one of the best game developers in the world and tLoU is probably my 4th favorite game of all time but I'd never classify them as "innovative". They take ideas and master them, not really innovate on them.

Well, like I said, when did Valve either? Their last "innovative" game came out on 2007. Don't get me wrong, I love Portal and its sequel very much (I think both are better games than HL2), but we are two years away from your question being equally valid for Valve themselves.

I m stil talking about innovation because of past achievements in each franchises.

Also, it s true Portal and TF2 weren t innovative...

Hmm, where did Portal get its idea from, then? I thought it was entirely done by a small team inside Valve. Or am I misreading you and you're saying Portal and TF2 (???) are both innovative?
 

VinFTW

Member
Well, like I said, when did Valve either? Their last "innovative" game came out on 2007. Don't get me wrong, I love Portal and its sequel very much (I think both are better games than HL2), but we are two years away from your question being equally valid for Valve themselves.

What innovations can you attribute to valve? I think your "mastery not innovation" argument applies to valve as well.

Fella's please point to where I said Valve was innovative in the past few years as well

hint:
I didn't, because they haven't done anything innovative since HL2

Was just responding to the 'what are you smoking' claim implying ND is innovative.
 

fastmower

Member
Well, like I said, when did Valve either? Their last "innovative" game came out on 2007. Don't get me wrong, I love Portal and its sequel very much (I think both are better games than HL2), but we are two years away from your question being equally valid for Valve themselves.
And Valve didn't even come up with the portal mechanics. They hired the people that did. This is a strong case for valve mastering a mechanic or concept and not innovating themselves.
 

Hoje0308

Banned
Well, like I said, when did Valve either? Their last "innovative" game came out on 2007. Don't get me wrong, I love Portal and its sequel very much (I think both are better games than HL2), but we are two years away from your question being equally valid for Valve themselves.

Didn't someone else come up with the idea for Portal and then Valve funded them? If that's the case, Valve gets credit for having a good eye, not innovation.

Edit: Sounds like that's the case.
 

fastmower

Member
Fella's please point to where I said Valve was innovative in the past few years as well

hint:
I didn't, because they haven't done anything innovative since HL2

Was just responding to the 'what are you smoking' claim implying ND is innovative.
What was innovative about half life 2? The only thing I can think of is the gravity-gun.
 
What was innovative about half life 2? The only thing I can think of is the gravity-gun.

That was pretty innovative when it came out, I remember reviewers were stunned.

Personally, I don't like the idea that big, "discrete" additions of mechanics are inherently worth more than iterative improvements. I was even thinking of making a thread pointing out all of the gameplay changes we have seen so far in the two 15 minute Uncharted 4 demos that are out. "Uncharted 3.5" is a lazy dismissal I've read way too many times whenever the game is brought up.
 

Hoje0308

Banned
You can probably only think of the gravity gun because you take everything else Half Life 2 had for granted due to widespread adoption.

I'm inclined to think this could very well be true and am interested in seeing it fleshed out more.

That was pretty innovative when it came out, I remember reviewers were stunned.

Personally, I don't like the idea that big, "discrete" additions of mechanics are inherently worth more than iterative improvements. I was even thinking of making a thread pointing out all of the gameplay changes we have seen so far in the two 15 minute Uncharted 4 demos that are out. "Uncharted 3.5" is a lazy dismissal I've read way too many times whenever the game is brought up.

To be fair, U3 was basically U2.5, so the sequel can somewhat accurately be called Uncharted 3.5 :p
 
You can probably only think of the gravity gun because you take everything else Half Life 2 had for granted due to widespread adoption.

How many of those things were natural progressions, though? I can only think of the vehicle sections and the top-notch facial animations as going through "widespread adoption".

To be fair, U3 was basically U2.5, so the sequel can somewhat accurately be called Uncharted 3.5 :p

Can't argue with that.
 

fastmower

Member
You can probably only think of the gravity gun because you take everything else Half Life 2 had for granted due to widespread adoption.
I'm aware of that, actually. I'm just trying to figure out why people are saying Valve innovated, ND masters. Because I get the impression that Valve mastered a lot of previous innovations, kinda like Naughty Dog.
 
Well I think this thread passed its half-life long ago, and isn't going to be entering into any uncharted areas from here on out. I'm guessing modbot will be the last of us to post here any minute now.
 
Good job, GAF!

1345239693_504_FT171692_foghorn-leghorn-thats-a-joke-son-you-missed-it-flew-right-by-ya.jpg

I agree. It took 15 pages but let GAF be GAF and take an off hand comment and turn it into pandemonium.

Pandemonium. Let a remake/ revival of that happen instead, because we sure as shit aren't getting a HL3, by Naughty Dag or Valve. Klonoa style. If we're not getting Crash I'd be up for Pandemonium.

487122Pandemonium.jpg
 
What exactly has ND done that's innovative in the past decade?

They're one of the best game developers in the world and tLoU is probably my 4th favorite game of all time but I'd never classify them as "innovative". They take ideas and master them, not really innovate on them.

Hmm I would classify their introduction of a playable set piece as innovative. Especially if we're basing it on industry imitation. Feels like game after game tried to introduce the standards ND established from UC
 

Ploid 3.0

Member
Hmm I would classify their introduction of a playable set piece as innovative. Especially if we're basing it on industry imitation. Feels like game after game tried to introduce the standards ND established from UC

The E3 where ND showed off Uncharted 2 left so many people with their jaws on the floor. What a time.
 
The E3 where ND showed off Uncharted 2 left so many people with their jaws on the floor. What a time.

Yeah and I can honestly say the first time I went through UC2 I had a - "Holy shit I didn't know a game could be like this" feeling which I have only ever gotten from very few other titles with HL2 being one of them.
 
What exactly has ND done that's innovative in the past decade?

They're one of the best game developers in the world and tLoU is probably my 4th favorite game of all time but I'd never classify them as "innovative". They take ideas and master them, not really innovate on them.

They were the first to combine story, characters, set pieces, and linearity into a movie-like experience. Gears of War 1 was the first game I played of any kind like this, but the war setting was not unique and the filmic quality was not there. Tomb Raider had a similar setting, but lacked the story, humor, and set pieces. Uncharted 1 had it all and thus set the bar. Maybe each individual component was not unique, but the end product absolutely was.
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
So chiming in on this dumb argument because hey this is the internet and this is NeoGAF, I personally have no inherent interest in Naughty Dog taking the Half-Life mantle simply because I don't feel they've demonstrated many franchise specific qualities that for me define Half-Life and would thus make them ideal candidates to continue the series in Valve's absence. It's not a slight against Naughty Dog's talents, especially in the narrative department, but that their best work in Uncharted and The Last of Us strikes me as a distinctly different style of game design from top-to-bottom of which isn't necessarily transferable to Half-Life. Which doesn't mean Half-Life from Naughty Dog would adopt these qualities, so much as me being only able to gauge Naughty Dog's suitability based on the work they've produced, which when compared to Half-Life simply situates them as a talented developer who may or may not make a Half-Life game as I'd like to see it. And since that dilutes the situation down to the basics, it also makes me question why I'd chose Naughty Dog over another equally talented studio in the industry. Maybe Naughty Dog could make a true, faithful, brilliant successor to Half-Life 2, but I've no reason to believe they could do a better job of this than a number of other exceptionally talented studios. What you're left with is a fun thought experiment that, to me, just doesn't have depth to discussion. What if *insert talented developer* made *insert dead franchise*? That's what I feel this comes down to.

EDIT: As a marginally related side, spending the last few years on forums with fans discussing the death of Half-Life, I'm honestly surprised how many people fixate on "continuing/finishing the story" and the series narrative as their first point of reference for why they're disappointed Valve hasn't produced a Half-Life 3 yet.
 
D

Deleted member 102362

Unconfirmed Member
EDIT: As a marginally related side, spending the last few years on forums with fans discussing the death of Half-Life, I'm honestly surprised how many people fixate on "continuing/finishing the story" and the series narrative as their first point of reference for why they're disappointed Valve hasn't produced a Half-Life 3 yet.

Considering how Episode 2 ended, I don't see how that's so surprising.
 

Septic360

Banned
All due respect to ND, and they are at the top of their game, but what they're great as is making very linear third person action games

I'm sorry but sculpting a world like Half Life 2, heck even Half Life 1, takes FAR more skill in my (admittedly lacking) knowledge than a linear universe carried by visuals and great dialogue.

What makes the ND games stand out is presentation, story and great voice acting. The gameplay is great, but not something mind blowing.

Half Life 3 needs to step up the game somehow and not just deliver another entry with a great story and same old mechanics. With Half Life 1, it was in a league of its own with the depth of its levels at the time, Half Life 2 brought physics to the fray and really utilised that to elevate the experience on top of a great sandbox and expert level/enemy design and atmosphere.

What can Half Life 3 do that marks as significant a jump? This is why Valve are stumped. They have to, somehow, God knows how, take that experience to the next level and U do not envy them in coming up with something to better it. Maybe it will be some impressive tech that is at the core of the experience.

But Naughty Dog delivering it? I think Druckmann thinks that chucking in some emotions and fancy visuals to the Half Life template will be enough (if he was being serious). It won't. Druckmann and ND couldn't even handle making a Halo game, let alone Half Life imo.
 
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