Syphon Filter
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Engadget: A look at the redesigned Steam Controller
- Thread starter ashecitism
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ashecitism
Member
The DS4 has a touchpad/trackpad of which this controller has two...
I wish people stopped mixing them up.
Nah, trackpad for right stick is a great idea.
TheNoblePirate
Member
Did you mean to quote my post? I don't think I said anything about the quality of the buttons at all, which I agree they should feel nice and satisfying. Also I'm not sure what analog has to do with anything...someone else mentioned analog. Sorry, I'm just confused.
People play in arcade sticks anyway...
PaulExcellent
Member
Then there would be no reason to make the controller.
So no.
Yeah, they said it doesn't make sense that their most expensive part is the least used. I guess I thought that meant they were going to make the rest of the controller more useful to people who like playing stuff like platformers. But like I said I still want to try it.
Rodney McKay
Member
cartoon_soldier
Member
I'd say they removed it due to cost reasons and it'd have made the mapping a lot harder for the end users eventually.
There hasn't been any improvements regarding button count or functionality as far as I can tell, it's just a re-arrangement. The directional buttons are the 4 buttons that were supposed to be mapped to the touch screen. The ABXY buttons that were relegated as function buttons have been repurposed as traditional face buttons instead.
Your post to me read as it doesn't matter if they're crap, because you'd be using quarters of the track pad as the d-pad, maybe I read it wrong though.
As for analog buttons, they're just really bad, they're mushy and they don't add anything of value. Personally I think that's just a crossed wire somewhere though, I don't believe Valve would do it.
The Cowboy
Member
Its what I'm looking forward to the most. In my perfect world, it would be an anolog left stick, the top buttons/back buttons, the 4 main face buttons, a proper d-pad and that lovely big right trackpad.
That thing is going to be pure joy for aiming on a couch, its a shame Valve couldn't get it out for Ttianfalls launch
.Why is this so hard for people to grasp.
Valve releasing a controller that is already heavily covered by the market would be completely useless. Releasing a controller that functions with the thousands of games not natively compatible with the xinput standard and games that don't work well with analog control.
ashecitism
Member
Really, at SDD the only analog related thing they said were regarding triggers and not even that was guaranteed. I hope this is just something lost in the ether.
Syphon Filter
Member
I don't think that will work,rts and stuff is just not meant to be played with any gamepad.
Rodney McKay
Member
It's really not that hard to get.
It's primary purpose is for games that DON'T have native 360 controller support, like the thousands of games that have come out before the 360 controller was around.
Assuming the player can get used to using the touchpads (which is probably a personal preference thing, I wont know until I try it), then it should work just fine for the vast majority of games that also have 360 controller support too.
Indeed, I can already see me sitting in front of the TV, HL3 booting up, it's going to be great.Its what I'm looking forward to the most. In my perfect world, it would be an anolog left stick, the top buttons/back buttons, the 4 main face buttons, a proper d-pad and that lovely big right trackpad.
That thing is going to be pure joy for aiming on a couch, its a shame Valve couldn't get it out for Ttianfalls launch
I probably sound like I'm down on the pad in this thread, I'm not, I just want it to be perfect so it can be my default. I'm concerned Valve are going to overshoot the innovation and not ship something that is optimal, I want it to be perfect.
People are incredibly stupid.
The touchpad always seemed redundant to me. Both of the haptic panels function as essentially much nicer touchpads.
Zombie James
Banned
I'll just go out and say it: Valve should stick with software. Trying to reinvent the wheel just doesn't seem to be working.
That's nice, but the reality is it does work and works pretty well
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeAjkbNq4xI&list=UUg0FSqPeiGD_lIiPaaAehQg
I mean, if you are talking about optimal play Starcraft platinum league than you are obviously not going to be using this controller. But for some casual play from the couch? Its a solution that works just fine.
And a mouse is not a living room peripheral. If Valve says this works great for Civ 5 on the TV, then I believe. I'm usually the first to point and laugh at the cult of gaben, but this thing makes perfect sense to me.
I just can't tell if it's console gamers wondering where the analogs are or PC gamers upset that Valve is trying to promote a controller for PC games.
Oni Link 666
Member
I don't get why they're putting those buttons with directions there. It's obviously not a d-pad or a good replacement for WASD. I think the touch pad looks like a better replacement for WASD than those buttons.
Canis lupus
Member
Oh god that is not a d-pad. It looks awful.
CrackPebbles
Member
looks better, I would put the dpad buttons closer though.
PaulExcellent
Member
Check out some videos posted online from the testers. It seems to work really well, which is the whole point of this thing.
Based on what exactly? Actual gameplay impressions have been incredibly positive.
Plug in a fighting stick.
Agreed
The "dpad" is only there as a means to emulate older controller based games and act a simple point of reference for when using those games. The fact that they are the same circular shape as the xyab buttons is because they will serve the same purpose in future, ie they will not reference directional buttons. Furthermore, it enables lefties to switch the bindings around without fuss.
Furthermore, notice how holding the controller is different to the 360 etc. Your thumbs are already angled in a downward angles for better accuracy of the trackpads. As this angle is different, the buttons are located to match.
The touch screen has been removed as it has been rendered obsolete by "Ghosting" which uses the paddles to switch to a mode where an overlay of additional buttons are visible and the respective touch pad ghosts your thumb on screen, for quick access to other keys if necessary
Also, the trackpads can behave as analogue sticks as well dependant on what the game wants, or you want them to do.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
You don't make a d-pad with buttons, the fuck is this shit?
ashecitism
Member
Actually this is not the case. They've been middling at best, both from the testers and devs.
I'm not sure even sure it's a d-pad. Those buttons came when touchpad was taken out. I think they just thought it would be a good idea to have plenty of buttons available to support as many games as possible.
Syphon Filter
Member
I never said it was a living room peripheral. If they are playing those titles with the pad then mine as well get a console.
Sentenza
Member
I don't even think there is such a thing.
Then again I was totally fine even with the 360 controller because I never, ever, EVER use the D-pad for anything but occasional menu navigation in games that require it.
ashecitism
Member
Or people can try out the trackpads for movement. See the vids I posted above.
But yeah, the X360 d-pad is awful.
Looks great to me. A real dpad would be nice, but I get their point. It's mostly going to be used as an additional set of buttons, which is the case on normal controllers now.
Mostly, I want them to hurry the fuck up and ship!
My gaming PC is hooked up to my TV and I have old games with no controller support in my Steam backlog. I need this controller now!
Mostly, I want them to hurry the fuck up and ship!
My gaming PC is hooked up to my TV and I have old games with no controller support in my Steam backlog. I need this controller now!
What's wrong with the separate buttons that makes it worse than a connected d-pad? It doesn't seem like it would be that bad at first glance. FWIW I play fighting games on a keyboard and it works just fine.
Sony has been doing it for years
If you find other styles more optimal, plug in that particular controller.
Maybe I have read differently, but most of the impressions I have seen have been positive. Especially when the controller is used with games it is intended for.
TheNoblePirate
Member
If it came across like that, I apologize, I didn't mean I that way. I believe that the eight face buttons will all be made with quality in mind, even though Valve has a focus on the trackpads, which is part of why I'm not concerned. The way I see it, I think the current 'D-pad' is just four buttons mapped to the functions of a D-pad by default, for the sake of quick and easy compatibility for existing games. I believe that it would be serviceable for that purpose. For anything else that requires perfect control over the directions, such as with fighting games, I would be using the trackpad to map those controls. Now, I could be wrong in how effective it would be, but I was thinking that based on what I've seen, it should be just as good if not better for that purpose.
Also, if the buttons do happen to be analog, well...I would hope that they don't feel like mush, haha.
This is my concern. They're trying to reinvent the wheel, instead of improving it.
This shouldn't even have happened, you don't need to iterate and work through problems people solved decades ago on laptop trackpads.
It's common sense not to have a touchscreen on a gamepad, it's wasteful in terms of cost, power drain, and it's poor UI, and it causes unwanted light for night gaming. It should never have made it beyond the first drawing board specing of the pad.
Gabe has talked about this process being akin to game development, open iteration based on player feedback, and that's a nice concept, but it seems like the Wild West in that office. Throwing everything at the wall, and not even waiting to see what sticks before showing it.
This is like sitting in a meeting discussing how F-Stop could be implemented into HL3 or something. It's too early. This whole SteamMachine project feels like it's still way too early to be considering a release this year to me.
They're not four buttons, they're a d-pad with a piece of plastic over the middle.
If you really want to be upset they said the target was to be able to play Dota on a couch with it.
Though they admitted you could never beat a m/kb player, obviously they see value in having a gaming PC in your living room and being able to enjoy some older games on your TV. As do I.
Sony has been doing it for years
The Sony dpads don't act like independent buttons though, you can only hit two adjacent "buttons" for diagonals at most. The Steam controller dpad is likely to be four independent buttons.
Dark Octave
Banned
Much better but I'm not understanding why they refuse to just add a d-pad instead of trying to emulate one with buttons.
Oppo
Member
I believe it is for left or right handed use. They didn't want to "favour" one side.
Also I'm guessing that they figure the dpad is typically relegated to menu traversal, if that, for a plurality of users? Not sure.
No, I'm not. I think the DS3 dpad is shit, the DS4's is better, the Vita's is far better, but they are dpads, not individual buttons.
EDIT: Oh, you didn't know, sorry.