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ESPN OTL: Pete Rose bet on baseball while he was a player
- Thread starter jbug617
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Delta Assault
Member
Isn't gambling legal in Vegas? That's not really a dangerous element.
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
Any outside influence on your performance is unacceptable. Let's say he bet on himself to get a hit that day. Hey, everyone's always trying to get a hit, what's the harm? But maybe he's 0-fer in his first three at-bats and up 3-0 in his last at-bat because the reliever can't find the plate in a close game and the smart move is to try and draw a walk but...
So he was flying to Vegas every time he wanted to make a bet?
terrisus
Member
The writers aren't the ones who made the rules on who is eligible for the Hall of Fame, nor do they have any control in making him eligible.
Sports betting (then called "hippodroming") was one of the things that contributed to the demise of the National Association, the predecessor of the National League.
Netherscourge
Banned
There is nothing in Pete Rose's background to suggest he would gamble "honorably".
Gambling can become a disease and there is absolutely no honor beholden of addicted gamblers. They will do anything and everything they can to tilt the odds in their favor.
He clearly did not need the money - he did it because it was an addiction and winning a bet becomes an obsession for these guys - even if means doing it dishonorably.
Gambling can become a disease and there is absolutely no honor beholden of addicted gamblers. They will do anything and everything they can to tilt the odds in their favor.
He clearly did not need the money - he did it because it was an addiction and winning a bet becomes an obsession for these guys - even if means doing it dishonorably.
The commissioner does. The writers have more influence on the commissioner than anyone besides the owners. The owners don't give two shits about Pete.
Also, I'm speaking in general about all the guys they are "keeping out" who beat records.
Should they hold alcoholics out of the hall of fame?
Yeah, I don't get why it's a big deal if he was only betting on the Reds to win.
Yeah, the way steroid users are unofficially banned from the Hall pisses me off. Why are the steroid users of the 90s-00s any worse than the amphetamine users of the 50s-80s?
Like all the people who say Hank Aaron is the true home run champ instead of Bonds. Guess what, Aaron took drugs to improve his performance also.
terrisus
Member
Alright...
But none of that has anything to do with connecting your comments about writers with the topic of this thread - which is, specifically, Pete Rose.
Or letting guys in with stats like this:
His .260 average, 138 HRs and 853 RBI just do not get the job done.
Bill Mazeroski
Get off the high horse and let the man in.
The drug testing policy had more to do with slowing down juicing than any witch hunt the media would have had. Guys would still be throwing up 60 hr seasons like it was nothing without that policy and probably wouldn't care in the media didn't like them or held it against them.
graffix13
Member
Gaylord Perry is a known cheater (he even admitted it) and he's in the HOF.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaylord_Perry
Rose (along with Bonds) should be in the HOF if you've already let in other known cheaters.
You can't decide "degrees" of cheating. Cheating is cheating.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaylord_Perry
Rose (along with Bonds) should be in the HOF if you've already let in other known cheaters.
You can't decide "degrees" of cheating. Cheating is cheating.
Netherscourge
Banned
Alcoholics don't intentionally lose games to make money - addicted gamblers could.
terrisus
Member
Isn't that bold part pretty important?
Delta Assault
Member
graffix13
Member
I'm nobody.
But why is one form of cheating acceptable for the HOF and the other isn't?
If you're arguing about integrity of the game, how is betting worse than doctoring/spitballs?
SliceSabre
Banned
Doesn't change my mind that he should be in the hall of fame.
Netherscourge
Banned
IMO - anyone who cheats to win should be banned.
And by that I mean:
-Cheats to set records. (steroids, foreign or banned substances, corked bats, pine tar, grease, etc...)
-Cheats to win games.
-Cheats to win gambling bets against themselves.
-Hacks opposing team's computers to get insider knowledge.
-Deflates footballs below the rules threshold.
-Records opposing teams signal callers.
-Opens tunnels during field goals to influence wind speed and direction.
-Invites officials to party boat/party bus orgies to win favor.
-Blasts fake crowd noise through speakers to make it louder when opposing teams are on offense.
For starters...
And by that I mean:
-Cheats to set records. (steroids, foreign or banned substances, corked bats, pine tar, grease, etc...)
-Cheats to win games.
-Cheats to win gambling bets against themselves.
-Hacks opposing team's computers to get insider knowledge.
-Deflates footballs below the rules threshold.
-Records opposing teams signal callers.
-Opens tunnels during field goals to influence wind speed and direction.
-Invites officials to party boat/party bus orgies to win favor.
-Blasts fake crowd noise through speakers to make it louder when opposing teams are on offense.
For starters...
shira
Member
Yes there is degrees of cheating in baseball. My god is there ever.
https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=George_Brett
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pine_Tar_Incident
Ninja Scooter
Member
I don't know why this is becoming such a huge deal now as the fact that he bet as a manager is so much worse. Heh had much more potential control over a game as a manager than as a player.
That said, he should be in the hall of fame. Even if you do it quietly without any fanfare or ceremony. Just put on his plaque that he was banned for life for gambling. If the hall of fame really wants to tell the history of baseball it should include everything. You can't take ghengis khan out of a history book.
That said, he should be in the hall of fame. Even if you do it quietly without any fanfare or ceremony. Just put on his plaque that he was banned for life for gambling. If the hall of fame really wants to tell the history of baseball it should include everything. You can't take ghengis khan out of a history book.
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
It's not like he's not mentioned in the museum. He's just not honored with a plaque. The Hall doesn't pretend Ty Cobb owns the all-time hits record.
Also the names on that slip are making me nostalgic. John Candiotti!
Ninja Scooter
Member
The hall of fame died when they started letting Craig Biggio and Jim Rice in but won't give Edgar a sniff.
Fenderputty
Banned
terrisus
Member
Because there are different levels and kinds and types of cheating.
And this one had a specific rule in place for it at the time that it happened.
Seems like people keep ignoring Ninja Scooter and Albatross when they point out why betting on yourself is bad.
You can acknowledge what he did was great but you never induct him into the HoF. Yeah it sucks and yeah he might be the greatest hitter of all time, but he broke one of the only unanimous rules in all of sports. He valued money over integrity and he has to live with that.
You can acknowledge what he did was great but you never induct him into the HoF. Yeah it sucks and yeah he might be the greatest hitter of all time, but he broke one of the only unanimous rules in all of sports. He valued money over integrity and he has to live with that.
For real. The fans remember the greats and we'll never need the hall to tell us.
Simply Sarah
Member
One of the, unfortunately, very rare times that a player gets inducted into the HoF for his defensive ability instead of just gaudy offensive numbers and you seriously want to hold it against them?
Sho_Nuff82
Member
It's a line they drew in the sand since a team threw the World Series for money.
There's almost nothing worse for the integrity of the game.
Velcro Fly
Member
Guys take roids to play better and increase stats and by association their chance to win.
Guys who bet on baseball on some days and not on others and then lie for 30 years about it there's no way you can trust they tried to win every day.
Now if you've ever seen Pete Rose play baseball and knew nothing about the betting you'd never believe a guy like him could ever not give it 100% every game. It's sad.
Guys who bet on baseball on some days and not on others and then lie for 30 years about it there's no way you can trust they tried to win every day.
Now if you've ever seen Pete Rose play baseball and knew nothing about the betting you'd never believe a guy like him could ever not give it 100% every game. It's sad.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Point shaving and taking dives are easier for great players to do convincingly.
Simply because he applied to be reinstated this year and is still lying about betting as a player (to try to draw a line between his 'good' player career and 'bad' managerial career).
Elwood Blues
Member
He's never getting in. They still won't let Joe Jackson in for "fixing" the 1919 world series where he had 12 hits for a .375 avg, .395 obp, and .563 slg.
because for a while people wanted him in as a player only.
This is the number 1 thing they tell players and managers not to do.
Its in every club house and post black sox its screamed at every player.
Of course I am. If we're keeping the best hitters out of baseball because of off field incidents, we need to go through the guys who are in and were mediocre.
Ozzie Smith did the same thing.
Aparicio
Nevermind a guy like Jim Bunning, who never threw in the postseason is in there.
It's a joke of a HOF and has been for years. The holier than thou attitude is pathetic. Millions of people have played the sport, yet the all time hit leader is out because he bet on some games?
Bobby Cox made it after hitting his wife.
Kirby Puckett had a restraining order put against him, and lost his job with the Twins for groping a woman.
Class acts in the HOF.
terrisus
Member
There are plenty of people just reading the topic title, and maybe the OP, and then tossing their two cents in without reading anything else.
On the other hand, that's kind of par for the course for many threads on GAF.
timetokill
Banned
Yeah, he ain't never gettin' in the Hall now.
Just in April of this year he was still swearing up and down that he never bet on baseball as a player.
Just in April of this year he was still swearing up and down that he never bet on baseball as a player.
A non-community thread has to get through the first 200 posts or so to get past the initial reactions phase and into the discussion page.
terrisus
Member
You may have something there.
Although, it still happens some on longer threads as well >.>
Simply Sarah
Member
Look, if you want to bring up people in the Hall that also have black ethical marks on them then fine, but attacking players that got in because of defense or never being in the postseason (Especially for a player that spent almost his entire career during a period when the only postseason was the World Series and with the Reserve Clause still in effect) is ridiculous. It is not the Hall of Amazing Hitters and Pitchers That Had a Lot of Postseason Experience.
True....people but it starts to die down and people either find something to discuss or the thread dies.
Then it stops being the Hall of Fame and becomes the Hall of notable shit that happened in baseball. There's that pesky honor component to the whole deal, and these writers are tight about that.
terrisus
Member
And, to be fair, Pete Rose is in there for a bunch of the "notable shit that" he did.
He just doesn't have a plaque in the gallery.
There are a fair number of HOF inductees with questionable personal and professional honor and ethics.
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