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[Mikey Jr.]

If the Scorpio is just a PS4 pro-like device, then I really don't see the needle moving at all.

Are people really clamouring that much for "true 4k"?

I believe Scorpio has to be something else. I don't believe Ms is sinking a ton of money into R&D, marketing, etc., just for a console that has better graphics.

Scorpio is something that's going to shake up the status quo. One thing I don't understand is their insistence of no more generations. That still doesn't make sense to me.

So you'll be able to play xbox 7 games on the Xbox one?

 

[The Gorby Congressmanz]

VGChartzzzz is still a thing.

******** isn't even close to NPD numbers though. All their numbers are most of the time, wrong.

 

[ethomaz]

Are there companies in PAL or Japan that collects the data then charges for access to it?

Yes... there are.

GFK, Famitsu, Media Create all charges for access to the full data.

They only release to public hardware sales (Famitsu, Media Create), raking without numbers (GFK) or ranking with only the top numbers(Famitsu, Media Create).

 

[KillerMan91]

Yes... there are.

GFK, Famitsu, Media Create all charges for access to the full data.

They only release to public hardware sales (Famitsu, Media Create), raking without numbers (GFK) or ranking with only the top numbers(Famitsu, Media Create).

There is also Dengeki in Japan as a third option to MC and Famitsu.

 

[ethomaz]

There is also Dengeki in Japan as a third option to MC and Famitsu.

Ohhhh yeah while I wrote I was thinking about this other name.

 

[DriftingSpirit]

If the Scorpio is just a PS4 pro-like device, then I really don't see the needle moving at all.

Are people really clamouring that much for "true 4k"?

I believe Scorpio has to be something else. I don't believe Ms is sinking a ton of money into R&D, marketing, etc., just for a console that has better graphics.

Scorpio is something that's going to shake up the status quo. One thing I don't understand is their insistence of no more generations. That still doesn't make sense to me.

So you'll be able to play xbox 7 games on the Xbox one?

I just look at it from a market perspective. The Xbox does not perform particularly well outside of US and UK. How is a more expensive Xbox going to suddenly invigorate those markets?

Even if we are to say they are planning for their strongest markets (US and UK) to carry Scorpio, where is the maintained enthusiasm going to come from for it to significantly alter things? It will come down to software more than anything else and I don't see what they can really do in that regard.

 

[Welfare]

******** isn't even close to NPD numbers though. All their numbers are most of the time, wrong.

Eh for the past two years they have basically kept their numbers within 10K of NPD data. Hell, most months of 2016 there is practically no difference between NPD data and VGC. NPD haven't gone after them yet.

 

[RexNovis]

If the Scorpio is just a PS4 pro-like device, then I really don't see the needle moving at all.

Are people really clamouring that much for "true 4k"?

I believe Scorpio has to be something else. I don't believe Ms is sinking a ton of money into R&D, marketing, etc., just for a console that has better graphics.

Scorpio is something that's going to shake up the status quo. One thing I don't understand is their insistence of no more generations. That still doesn't make sense to me.

So you'll be able to play xbox 7 games on the Xbox one?

I agree. If MS really wants Scorpio to be something that moves the needle it needs to be a dramatic departure in some way but everything they have said this far implies it's just a more powerful iteration.

To answer your question about end of generations think about it like IPhones. Basically after 3 iterations the oldest model is phased out of SW support. I'd imagine for MS whenever the Scorpio successor were to come out they would phase out XB1 support and Scorpio would become the base unit with the new SKU being the premium performance platforms. Then rinse and repeat that with each new cycle. It's possible they would keep XB1 around for longer but it'd be a lot of dead weight for SW to drag through two iterations IMO

Would have like to have seen both PS4 and XB1 be up YoY from last year, but alas since there is silence on all fronts, I'm guessing both were down.

@RexNovis - just now getting back to this, but thanks for your opinions on why you think the Slim is what might be the factor that leads to Sony missing it's target. Hopefully with the Pro getting back in stock in retailers and the great games that has been released in Q1 for PS4, it continues a nice upward trend.

The Xbox slim had a good run of keeping the platform up in monthly YoY comparisons, Nov and now Feb were down it appears. IMO, Feb isn't a great sign as the platform IIRC did pretty bad the first half of '16. If it continues to be down, then that's not a great sign. I honestly doubt Scorpio will have that much of an impact on sales.

On Pro stock I remember reading an interview with House (can't find it at the moment as I'm at work) saying that they were increasing production of Pro units in order to meet demand in Asia and Europe and that they were surprised at just how quickly their stock sold out in many of those markets. So if he is to be believed we should see substantially more Pro units hitting the market sometime in the near future. Will be interesting to see if it is enough to meet demand in those markets.

I think Cosmic's post about the factors affecting XB1 sales is a good one. To sum up there are a lot of reasons why people might be less inclined to buy an XB1s at the moment not the least of which is the fact that MS keeps talking up project Scorpio at every opportunity.

Yes it's likely both platforms are down YoY and I think the release of the Switch will ensure that this continues for the majority of the year. But that is normal at this stage of a platforms life. Absent some anomaly like Kinect revitalizing sales it's been the norm. The question is how much are they down. Also as you say if XB1 is down that has very different implications than it does for PS4 as last year was its LTD best whereas for XB1 last year's sales were rather poor. So context paints a very different picture for what being down YoY means for the health of these two platforms.

I hope we can get some idea of how much these platforms are down YoY (if indeed they are even down YoY) for discussion and analysis but, these days, I'm no longer sure that'll happen.

Do I need to take screencaps of each page of posts up to your last snark comment? Because I can do that. I think you actually do know you're wrong considering you don't even have the guts to directly address me and made your very snark comment by itself thinking i wouldn't see it.

i would suggest being more upfront and honest.

I guess I have my answer. Good to know.

 

[The Gorby Congressmanz]

I can't believe it, you directly responded to me this time. nice work!

(hold on let me edit the post without the quote like you do.)

 

[sirronoh]

I can't believe it, you directly responded to me this time. nice work!

(hold on let me edit the post without the quote like you do.)

Is there a reason why you insist on dragging this thread down? As has been pointed out, your behavior over the last few days is not becoming.


Anyway, does anyone have a chart of the estimates for PS4 and/or Xbox over the last year or two? I was going to ask for just February but if someone was nice enough to keep track of more than that over time in a Google Sheet or something, that would save a lot of questions. If not, that's OK -- I know that's asking a lot. Just trying to get better context for February.

 

[RexNovis]

Anyway, does anyone have a chart of the estimates for PS4 and/or Xbox over the last year or two? I was going to ask for just February but if someone was nice enough to keep track of more than that over time in a Google Sheet or something, that would save a lot of questions. If not, that's OK -- I know that's asking a lot. Just trying to get better context for February.

Zhuge has a chart he made comparing US sales on his twitter I'll see if i can find it and post it here for you. He also has a WW chart but the XB1 figures are estimates for obvious reasons.

 

[Samanosuke Akechi]

Would love to see Sony slash a whole $100 off the price of the slim this year. I'm not talking Black Friday either, but a permanent price drop to that this year.

 

[Obliterator]

Scorpio certainly needs something more than just another "PS4 Pro" if it's going to shakes things up. While the Pro has been a solid success it hasn't exactly driven a crazy large boost in momentum and sales and that's a revision of one of the fastest selling consoles ever. You have to imagine Scorpio adoption would be even more tepid.

Scorpio if it does indeed share it's entirely library needs to have SUBSTANTIALLY better visuals. Not just 4k or supersampling. The larger market still really doesn't hugely care about that. But if you can show them screen shots and videos of games with clear night and day visual differences that's something else. Unfortunately I don't see devs taking near the amount of work it would require to make that happen and instead we will basically see exactly what we see from the Pro. High resolutions and slightly more stable frame rate. That's cool and all for the super hardcore but not the thing that will move some serious units off of shelves

 

[CosmicQueso]

Zhuge had some things to say on the topic of the lack of leaks and the decline in meaningful sales discussion on forums like ours that I feel is relevant to share

Not one single lie detected.

Think of all the people that have shared bits of data over the years.

How many of those people were driven away by the constant demands for more, more, more? JH got fed up with it, ZEX too. Cream bailed, for whatever reason.

Zhuge's post about it is spot on (and applies across all public forums).

There's a ton of available info being announced about the real state of the business. Hell, enough of it that Zhuge has built a career from looking at nothing but that available info.

It just doesn't provide the opportunity for the warring over monthly hw unit sales which are, ultimately, a fairly inconsequential measure at this point in the cycle for the industry.

Still stinks not having it available though, I get it.

 

[Sangetsu-II]

Is there a reason why you insist on dragging this thread down? As has been pointed out, your behavior over the last few days is not becoming.

I would just ignore him to be honest, all his replies sound very rude imo.

 

[RexNovis]

Not one single lie detected...

There's a ton of available info being announced about the real state of the business. Hell, enough of it that Zhuge has built a career from looking at nothing but that available info.

It just doesn't provide the opportunity for the warring over monthly hw unit sales which are, ultimately, a fairly inconsequential measure at this point in the cycle for the industry.

I mentioned this in previous NPD threads when discussing the current state of NPD disclosure but just to reiterate I think it would be fantastic to actually discuss the revenue in play for GAAS titles and how profitable such ventures have been on a per title or per publisher basis. While I would certainly appreciate more granular information and breakdowns on the topic but we do have access to a lot of publisher breakdowns regarding digital revenue but anytime a thread or post is made to discuss those figures there seems to be very little interest. I would hope that more of us would be concerned the health of the industry as a whole and not just the health of individual platforms but regrettably that doesn't seem to be the case. Its clear that the industry is in throws of monumental shifts and changes and yet almost nobody seems to want to discuss it.

I dont know if maybe people just aren't aware of how the market is changing or maybe people just want to ignore it because its easier to deny its happening when you don't have to face it? But that just seems pointless to me. Regardless of whether or not you like the direction things are heading they are still going to head in that direction so you might as well inform yourself and learn about what's happening.

 

[spatenfloot]

Is there a reason why you insist on dragging this thread down? As has been pointed out, your behavior over the last few days is not becoming.

just PM a mod instead of engaging with people doing that sort of thing.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

Scorpio certainly needs something more than just another "PS4 Pro" if it's going to shakes things up. While the Pro has been a solid success it hasn't exactly driven a crazy large boost in momentum and sales and that's a revision of one of the fastest selling consoles ever. You have to imagine Scorpio adoption would be even more tepid.

Scorpio if it does indeed share it's entirely library needs to have SUBSTANTIALLY better visuals. Not just 4k or supersampling. The larger market still really doesn't hugely care about that. But if you can show them screen shots and videos of games with clear night and day visual differences that's something else. Unfortunately I don't see devs taking near the amount of work it would require to make that happen and instead we will basically see exactly what we see from the Pro. High resolutions and slightly more stable frame rate. That's cool and all for the super hardcore but not the thing that will move some serious units off of shelves

Well Microsoft reps have stated that they expect the Xbox One S to be their main seller by far. Scorpio is definitely aimed at a niche segment of console gamers.

 

[Liabe Brave]

Anyway, does anyone have a chart of the estimates for PS4 and/or Xbox over the last year or two?

Here's what I have for NPD sales of the two consoles up through January.

EDITED to add a couple points (and then again later to correct a typo):

If PS4 won February by more than 55,000 units, the gap is now the largest it's ever been by units. By percentage, the gap got as high as 31% in the first year. Since then, it's been more steady, ranging between 8.5 and 14.6%. Here are the percentage gaps at the end of each year:

2013 10.1%
2014 8.5%
2015 11.9%
2016 10.6%

 

[donny2112]

I'm very sorry, I didn't mean to mock your position, only contradict it. I do see that how I stated my argument could be interpreted as "you're dumb if you think otherwise" though, so I sincerely apologize. I'll edit the post to preserve my point, but make it clear that your contradictory take isn't risible or stupid.

Thanks for the response. I do realize that the worldwide picture is different than the U.S. picture, but I was trying to just look at reasoning that would apply to just the U.S. changes this gen. Trying to find something that can be talked about.

Guys I have a bit o time and used it to surf on Twitter

This was posted before?

https://twitter.com/MatPiscatella/status/839952513797193728



Edit - This reply was funny https://twitter.com/MatPiscatella/status/839954697767100416

So Wii U is the same gen as Wii, so now Wii+Wii U has passed up 360 again as the winner last gen. Hoo-rah. :|

Spoiler

Or you can combine GCN and Wii in which case Nintendo won the PS2 generation. 2 x :|

 

[Welfare]

Hopefully we get some hardware talk on Thursday.

So Wii U is the same gen as Wii, so now Wii+Wii U has passed up 360 again as the winner last gen. Hoo-rah. :|

Spoiler

Or you can combine GCN and Wii in which case Nintendo won the PS2 generation. 2 x :|

You joke (I think) but the reality is that Wii U dried up and got replaced during the middle of the PS4/XB1 cycle. Reclassifying it with PS3/360 is a easy way to move it out of the current gen as Wii U is in the same position as those two systems.

 

[Sangetsu-II]

Here's what I have for NPD sales of the two consoles up through January.

Almost a 2 million gap? Am I reading that right? (1.8m?)

 

[donny2112]

You joke (I think) but the reality is that Wii U dried up and got replaced during the middle of the PS4/XB1 cycle. Reclassifying it with PS3/360 is a easy way to move it out of the current gen as Wii U is in the same position as those two systems.

The issue, I think, is trying to shoehorn Switch into the PS4/XB1 generation. I don't think that fits, even if there may be some ports between the systems. Wii U was part of the gen that normally followed up to the Wii, which was part of the PS360 gen. That makes Wii U a common gen with PS4/XB1. Switch is Nintendo saying "screw it" and going hybrid with the tablet gaming setup. Dedicated gaming tablet wouldn't be a bad designation. (Tablets can connect to TVs and be played with separate controllers, too.) Figure out where it fits in the mobile gaming generations (if there even are such things), and I think that might fit better.

 

[ethomaz]

Almost a 2 million gap? Am I reading that right? (1.8m?)

It was already 1.5m before holidays 2016... the gap just increased.

The issue, I think, is trying to shoehorn Switch into the PS4/XB1 generation. I don't think that fits, even if there may be some ports between the systems. Wii U was part of the gen that normally followed up to the Wii, which was part of the PS360 gen. That makes Wii U a common gen with PS4/XB1. Switch is Nintendo saying "screw it" and going hybrid with the tablet gaming setup. Dedicated gaming tablet wouldn't be a bad designation. (Tablets can connect to TVs and be played with separate controllers, too.) Figure out where it fits in the mobile gaming generations (if there even are such things), and I think that might fit better.

Nintendo just treated Wii U like a Wii 1.5... that is why it has the same name... a mid gen refresh lol

Switch is the 8th gen

 

[Sangetsu-II]

It was already 1.5m before holidays 2016... the gap just increased.

Sorry hard to tell when we have no numbers given

(I knew up until 1.5m gap)

 

[Liabe Brave]

Almost a 2 million gap? Am I reading that right? (1.8m?)

The gap is currently ~1.73m. The highest it's ever been was ~1.78m, last June (or maybe right now, depending on what February actually looked like).

 

[hanspampel]

Almost a 2 million gap? Am I reading that right? (1.8m?)

edit: damit why is the spoiler tag soooo big?
any way how i can change that?

just go to the banned site.
a guy called shadow 1980 i doing some great graphs there


up to December 2016 NPD

Spoiler

 

[sirronoh]

Here's what I have for NPD sales of the two consoles up through January.

EDITED to add a couple points (and then again later to correct a typo):

If PS4 won February by more than 55,000 units, the gap is now the largest it's ever been by units. By percentage, the gap got as high as 31% in the first year. Since then, it's been more steady, ranging between 8.5 and 14.6%. Here are the percentage gaps at the end of each year:

2013 10.1%
2014 8.5%
2015 11.9%
2016 10.6%

This is awesome, thank you very much for providing this! Looks like a lot of time went into keeping up with this so I really appreciate you sharing this.

Microsoft has managed to make the Xbox much more competitive with PS4 after year 1 so I don't expect the percentage gap to grow for the rest of the gen (unless something drastic happens). From now until the holidays though, PS4 should continue to add to the total units gap every month.

Really curious to see February's numbers though to get a better understanding of how Xbox is faring outside the holidays. If I had to guess, the gap in February is over 50K like it was in January.

Thanks again Liabe!

 

[hanspampel]

shows the relative performance very well.

year 2 jan - oct, the gap was in line with the total average
year 1 jan - oct + year 3 first half jan - june outperformed heavily in ps4 favour



year 1 slow months + year 3 fist half were also pretty much of the same strength for ps4
jan - october 2017 would be very interesting data to see if xbox one s has a real impact beside the initial launch period.

 

[Square2015]

What were Jan HW numbers?


Edit: we got holiday 3DS figures?

 

[Liabe Brave]

What were Jan HW numbers?

I calculated January with PS4 at 211k and Xbox One at 157k. I don't believe we got enough info to figure out 3DS.

 

[ethomaz]

The gap will be over 2 million before Scorpio launch.

That is pretty safe... peharps close to 2.2m.

 

[sirronoh]

The gap will be over 2 million before Scorpio launch.

That is pretty safe... perhaps close to 2.2m.

Yeah, minimum 2 million looks like a safe bet to me. Sony really put together a great gaming console that appeals to a wide variety of gamers all around the world.

Really begs the question, how do they carry this momentum forward with whatever comes next? The PS4 is going to pass 100 million worldwide at some point. Does Sony hit reset with PS5 and ask increasingly risk averse publishers to make new games only for PS5 and leave the 100 million install base behind like we've always done? Or does something change?

I mean, at what point do budgets become too big to keep resetting every generation from a publisher/developer stand point? I know core gamers want exclusive games that take full advantage of the latest hardware. They tend to want as much as possible for as little as possible going by the threads I've seen on GAF, Twitter, and elsewhere. But budgets aren't getting any smaller.

These are just my personal thoughts but sooner or later I wonder if we'll get to a point where cross-gen becomes standard throughout a generation instead of just something that appears in the first year or two in order to take advantage of two install bases. So games designed for PS4 + PS5, then PS5 + PS6, and so on, never for only one generation anymore.

 

[Nirolak]

Did this get delayed?

 

[Welfare]

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articl...-tops-us-game-sales-during-tough-february-npd

Total hardware sales amounted to $204 million, down 30% from last year, and according to NPD industry analyst Mat Piscatella, "Console hardware accounted for 82 percent of the total declines as both average retail pricing and units sold fell versus [a] year ago." Next month's report, which will factor in Nintendo Switch's big launch performance, should tell a different story.

Interestingly, while all eyes have been on Switch, in the month before Switch's launch, Nintendo 3DS enjoyed a bump of its own. "In the portable space, 3DS unit sales were up 77 percent versus January 2017 driven by the 3DS New Galaxy Style model and the 3DS Limited Pikachu Yellow model," Piscatella explained.

 

[The Last One]

That's a good hold for Resident Evil VII.

 

[Electret]

Yeah, minimum 2 million looks like a safe bet to me. Sony really put together a great gaming console that appeals to a wide variety of gamers all around the world.

Really begs the question, how do they carry this momentum forward with whatever comes next? The PS4 is going to pass 100 million worldwide at some point. Does Sony hit reset with PS5 and ask increasingly risk averse publishers to make new games only for PS5 and leave the 100 million install base behind like we've always done? Or does something change?

I mean, at what point do budgets become too big to keep resetting every generation from a publisher/developer stand point? I know core gamers want exclusive games that take full advantage of the latest hardware. They tend to want as much as possible for as little as possible going by the threads I've seen on GAF, Twitter, and elsewhere. But budgets aren't getting any smaller.

These are just my personal thoughts but sooner or later I wonder if we'll get to a point where cross-gen becomes standard throughout a generation instead of just something that appears in the first year or two in order to take advantage of two install bases. So games designed for PS4 + PS5, then PS5 + PS6, and so on, never for only one generation anymore.

I think you answered yourself in this final paragraph. The inevitable hardware similarly between PS4 and PS5 - AMD x86 CPUs, AMD GPUs - will significantly alleviate the burden inherent to a more disruptive generation reset. If a developer chooses to go PS5-exclusive, much of their existing codebase will be largely amenable to the new hardware. No instruction set or vendor change. That reduces cost. Likewise, it will be easier to support cross-generation development, as your writing for a common x86/AMD target. And I suspect we will see much of this. The development and economic realities suggest such an approach. Why abandon over 100 million potential customers when you can sell to them and new adopters of the next platform? I think PS5 will share a bit more in common with Scorpio than some might think at first glance, as a I suspect many developers will go cross-gen, at least in the earlier part of next generation. Both will share a significant part of their libraries with their predecessors, though obviously PS5 will have exclusives from day one.

 

[blakep267]

I know it's revenue and all but I thought Nioh would've been higher seeing as it shipped 1 million ww

And that's a good hold for RE

 

[RexNovis]

I know it's revenue and all but I thought Nioh would've been higher seeing as it shipped 1 million ww

And that's a good hold for RE

It looks like its the only title on that list to not include digital revenue. So knowing that and the stock issues it had at retail it really looks like Sony massively undershipped the game.

Biggest surprise for me is that Halo Wars 2 didnt even rank. I expected its sales to be low but I expected to at the very least chart at the bottom.

 

[Primethius]

Nioh but no Halo Wars 2 is surprising to me.

 

[sirronoh]

[EDIT] wrong thread

 

[noobie]

are we going to get any ranking this month?

 

[jryi]

A little late to react, but what the hell.

To answer your question about end of generations think about it like IPhones. Basically after 3 iterations the oldest model is phased out of SW support. I'd imagine for MS whenever the Scorpio successor were to come out they would phase out XB1 support and Scorpio would become the base unit with the new SKU being the premium performance platforms. Then rinse and repeat that with each new cycle. It's possible they would keep XB1 around for longer but it'd be a lot of dead weight for SW to drag through two iterations IMO

This has been my thinking from before Pro was launched. Remember this?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=226558637&postcount=1661

(I seem to be late a lot lately.)

 

[RexNovis]

I see Mr.Gorby has exited stage left. Wonder what finally did him in.

A little late to react, but what the hell.



This has been my thinking from before Pro was launched. Remember this?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=226558637&postcount=1661

(I seem to be late a lot lately.)

The quoted comment was made specifically in reference to the Scorpio and was answering another posters direct question about what "no more generations" could mean.

One thing I don't understand is their insistence of no more generations. That still doesn't make sense to me.

Thus I responded explaining what I see as the most likely interpretation of that. Frankly its the only way I can really interpret "no more generations" beyond anything but marketing BS. MS has stated the "no more generations" schpiel many times but has muddied their message with constant assurances of "all games will be playable on XB1" so for them, given the mixed messaging, this could fit or it could not. Given the current market realities I could see such an approach being their big move to regain marketshare. Sony, however, has stated their plans lie elsewhere and they will continue to have standard generations with the intention for Pro to simply prolong the existing gen. Nothing we know about the Pro points to your proposal being the case which is what I stated to you before and I stand by that. Also nowhere in my explanation did I state that such an iteration would occur every three years or offer any other incredibly specific details similar to what you laid bare in your original post on the matter for which there is no proof.

 

[jryi]

Frankly its the only way I can really interpret "no more generations" beyond anything but marketing BS.

I don't think that "generation" has ever been defined in unambiguous terms. For example, I find it hard to tell whether PS4 and Pro are of the same generation or not. At the moment, with them having the exact same catalogue, they seem to be the same, but what happens if (I'm actually certain that it's a question of when) a game is launched that runs on Pro but not on original PS4? Do they become different generations, then?

And the discussion is equally -- if not more -- complicated when talking about different vendors' platforms. It was never conclusively decided whether Wii was of the same generation with PS3 and Xbox 360. For all practical purposes it wasn't; there was simply so little overlap between the games selections.

On the other hand, I don't know why this is even an interesting question. What is the concept of "console generation" needed for? Beyond sales figure comparison, is there a benefit for calling WiiU and PS4 consoles of the eighth generation? As a consumer, what would I do with such information?

 

[RexNovis]

I don't think that "generation" has ever been defined in unambiguous terms. For example, I find it hard to tell whether PS4 and Pro are of the same generation or not. At the moment, with them having the exact same catalogue, they seem to be the same, but what happens if (I'm actually certain that it's a question of when) a game is launched that runs on Pro but not on original PS4? Do they become different generations, then?

And the discussion is equally -- if not more -- complicated when talking about different vendors' platforms. It was never conclusively decided whether Wii was of the same generation with PS3 and Xbox 360. For all practical purposes it wasn't; there was simply so little overlap between the games selections.

On the other hand, I don't know why this is even an interesting question. What is the concept of "console generation" needed for? Beyond sales figure comparison, is there a benefit for calling WiiU and PS4 consoles of the eighth generation? As a consumer, what would I do with such information?

Sony has said unequivocally and repeatedly that this will not happen and has defined generations as "a shift in HW that resets SW development" meaning HW that debuts with its own exclusive software and presents a major shift in development. They've also stated the Pro is not a reset and that they do plan to continue doing generations because they feel the fresh start has value for the medium and the market.

You can argue the meaning of generations all day. Regardless of your own quandaries about its definition I'm not going to get into this pointless unending debate again. Its clear what Sony means and its clear what their intentions are. They do not share your views on what the future of the industry should/will look like. MS might. At this point their messaging is confusing and we can't be sure but it is absolutely evident that Sony does not and there is no point whatsoever in arguing about it when they have been as clear as they could possibly be about it.

 

[kyser73]

I don't think that "generation" has ever been defined in unambiguous terms. For example, I find it hard to tell whether PS4 and Pro are of the same generation or not. At the moment, with them having the exact same catalogue, they seem to be the same, but what happens if (I'm actually certain that it's a question of when) a game is launched that runs on Pro but not on original PS4? Do they become different generations, then?

And the discussion is equally -- if not more -- complicated when talking about different vendors' platforms. It was never conclusively decided whether Wii was of the same generation with PS3 and Xbox 360. For all practical purposes it wasn't; there was simply so little overlap between the games selections.

On the other hand, I don't know why this is even an interesting question. What is the concept of "console generation" needed for? Beyond sales figure comparison, is there a benefit for calling WiiU and PS4 consoles of the eighth generation? As a consumer, what would I do with such information?

Mark Cerny was very clear about his definition of a console generation, and the Pro isn't it. Sony have been at pains to point out that the Pro is PS4+.

MS will, at this point, say whatever they need to say to keep selling XB1S while waiting for Scorpio to launch, so I take all the 'end of generations' stuff with a pinch of salt.

 

[RexNovis]

So take it since they haven't happened yet there won't be any results posted due to there being absolutely no numbers whatsoever?

 

[vivekTO]

Isn't time for march prediction thread??

 

[Welfare]

Isn't time for march prediction thread??

March NPD goes until April 1.