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[MechaX]

He's saying people don't deserve to criticize MVCI if they weren't at E3.

Best clip I was able to get. Stream chat was going in on him hard. https://clips.twitch.tv/CrypticCrackyCheddarChocolateRain

Then Justin is making zero sense.

Like, you can't hold it against the players because Capcom released that shit demo and be like "we played the REAL demo of the game! take our word for it, it'll be hype!! mahvel!!"

He deserved to be blown the fuck up for even making that point.

 

[CO_Andy]

Guys, enough with the Capcom hate. This toxicity will only destroy the FGC!

Hope is not enough, so we lash out en masse. But this type of behavior only prevents new players from being interested in fighting games. It’s stifling. There are already people shouting to avoid MvC:I (Another Capcom Fighting Game) and it’s not even out yet. What interest would the average person have in a community which leads with a scathing declaration that these games are ass? As players and as a community, this is something we can control.

While there are many objective reasons to dislike the current state of Street Fighter V, pointing out these weak areas is an effort in futility. It’s a dead horse, and if a new player wants to experience SFV as their first fighting game, let them come to their own conclusions, the game speaks for itself.

Letter to the community... and the FGC at large

 

[Dahbomb]

Normally I am all for people taking companies to town...

But this new hate trend has gone way past over the top. People are so scared of another SFV situation happening that they are lashing out exceedingly.

Justin is not right.. "you don't deserve to hate if you weren't at E3". Not everyone got VIP access to the game with Combofiend going over all the details and dropping secret nuggets we may never hear about. It's hard to hate a game in that atmosphere especially on a superior build that is actually representative of the game. Us people at home got something that most people did not even want in the first place.

The general public just has the story mode to judge and based off of that we can sum up the following:

*UI and art design is mediocre.
*Voice acting is mediocre.
*"Story" is laughable.
*The fight scenarios are passable at best.
*Game play is alright but impossible to judge against live opponents. It's open ended for sure but what is real and what isn't?


The only good thing about the demo is how much of it is there, quite a few characters to mess around. But of course you have to wade through the shit to get to the good part which is the game play and even that is nerfed because you are fighting against jobber bots with no HP.

 

[Tripon]

Eh, Capcom doesn't earn the doubt. They're been tone deaf at best, and the latest evidence is the Monster Hunter stuff with not localizing and not saying they're won't be localizing the game. Maybe Capcom should be worried that their reputation is in tatters right now and they need to be on their A game in order to get people to buy their game.

 

[ShinMaruku]

It's not a new trend, people like being miserable.

Hell marvel can turn out servicable, sf could right itself, people would slag it.

 

[Dahbomb]

With the way they have treated Dante in Marvel Infinite, I am legit shook when it comes to DMC5.

Like no god damn respect for the character or real effort put into him. Couldn't even copy/paste him in properly, it is actually astounding. Dante sells more games and earns Capcom more money than Megaman ever will yet they gotta do him like that? Then again they messed with Chun Li and Chris so it's not much of a stretch that they can mess up Dante too.

I am talking about how he plays, his moves and the lack of effects on some of them. And how it feels like someone who has never played DMC3 made him. Like that Acid Rain and Beowulf moves.. WHAT DA FUDGE!

 

[mamoniadas]

how many days did it take for SFxT to cross into the dead game zone?
what about CFJ/CFE?

 

[pizzacat]

how many days did it take for SFxT to cross into the dead game zone?
what about CFJ/CFE?

cfj died in the womb

 

[Dahbomb]

how many days did it take for SFxT to cross into the dead game zone?
what about CFJ/CFE?

SFxT was HOT SHIT pre-release. People were all hyped for it, everyone was on board despite the Cross Assault fiasco.

The game started to go downhill when stuff like pre-order/purchasable gems, on disc DLC, online issues started cropping up. And then when actual matches started to happen it was Jab x SF. Stream monsters revolted against the game despite apparently the pros having fun with the game.

According to Viscant and Gootecks, stream monsters killed SFxT. I don't know if I buy into that much but SFxT being a very spectator unfriendly game (and had a garish as fuck artstyle) certainly didn't help it. It also didn't help that the first EVO was 2v2, it made people take the game less seriously I feel.

But no mistake, pre-release SFxT was hyped up to high heavens. "OMG THE NEW CVS2!!!" Ricky Ortiz, Mike Russ, Max etc. were all up over this game.

 

[ShinMaruku]

The whole esports and service angle really hamstrung capcom. If not for those things, there would be no rush and proper iteration.

 

[irfaanator]

sfxtk gave us one of the best fgc memes. tom cruise in top gun throwing the game away

 

[Dahbomb]

Justin said that he figured out DBZ very quickly and he was doing the advance stuff already.

But when it came to MvCI he was always stumped, every time he came to play there was some new stuff he had to learn. He said there is a lot to learn and take in with the game where as DBZ is very easy to pick up.


I mean if the god of Marvel says it's going to take some time to learn the new Marvel then yeah it's going to take people a long time to get used to this game. I guess Marvel 3 was the same in that regard.

 

[Kadey]

Chipotle or Moes?

 

[Professor Beef]

Justin said that he figured out DBZ very quickly and he was doing the advance stuff already.

But when it came to MvCI he was always stumped, every time he came to play there was some new stuff he had to learn. He said there is a lot to learn and take in with the game where as DBZ is very easy to pick up.


I mean if the god of Marvel says it's going to take some time to learn the new Marvel then yeah it's going to take people a long time to get used to this game. I guess Marvel 3 was the same in that regard.

To be fair, ASW games are all rushdown heavy games so it's not like you're gonna have much to dig for.

 

[Dahbomb]

To be fair, ASW games are all rushdown heavy games so it's not like you're gonna have much to dig for.

Low quality bait.

 

[Seyavesh]

With the way they have treated Dante in Marvel Infinite, I am legit shook when it comes to DMC5.

Like no god damn respect for the character or real effort put into him. Couldn't even copy/paste him in properly, it is actually astounding. Dante sells more games and earns Capcom more money than Megaman ever will yet they gotta do him like that? Then again they messed with Chun Li and Chris so it's not much of a stretch that they can mess up Dante too.

I am talking about how he plays, his moves and the lack of effects on some of them. And how it feels like someone who has never played DMC3 made him. Like that Acid Rain and Beowulf moves.. WHAT DA FUDGE!

that acid rain is one of the most disgusting things i have ever seen in a fighting game
it's so fucking ugly

there's not any good footage of it yet but it's worse than the diff. between iron man's normals suddenly turning into paint shop pro gradients from 2002

the theme for him is mindblowingly bad too, haha. the difference between any version of devils never cry and that one is a really great metaphor for the difference between 3 and infinite's craftwork

 

[Professor Beef]

Low quality bait.

Low quality retort.

 

[Dahbomb]

I don't know why you keep posting that Iron Man comparison... they scaled back the hit box a lot which makes sense because now Iron Man doesn't have wack as hell mobility. The hitbox/range on normals like that on a fast character like that would be kinda crazy.

That's like so low on the totem pole of stuff to complain about in the game. Like yeah I get it, the animations/effects overall are much lower impact and "hype" than Marvel 3 and it's especially obvious with stuff like Dante. Not even that but stuff like the effects of the Advancing Guard reflect and blocking effect are also very weaksauce.

Part of me thinks that the more toned down effects plus less happening in the background is a way to maintain minimum game lag and 60 FPS. Like it's not HARD to make Iron Man have crazy beams all around him all the time but at some point visual clutter and game demands come into play.

 

[Seyavesh]

I don't know why you keep posting that Iron Man comparison... they scaled back the hit box a lot which makes sense because now Iron Man doesn't have wack as hell mobility. The hitbox/range on normals like that on a fast character like that would be kinda crazy.

That's like so low on the totem pole of stuff to complain about in the game. Like yeah I get it, the animations/effects overall are much lower impact and "hype" than Marvel 3 and it's especially obvious with stuff like Dante. Not even that but stuff like the effects of the Advancing Guard reflect and blocking effect are also very weaksauce.

Part of me thinks that the more toned down effects plus less happening in the background is a way to maintain minimum game lag and 60 FPS. Like it's not HARD to make Iron Man have crazy beams all around him all the time but at some point visual clutter and game demands come into play.

why question why i keep posting it if you understand how it's about the effects being so awful vs. it's predecessor? it is outright bizarre that it looks that bad- it's not like the game is more cluttered than 3!
like, engine woes totally could be a reason but that just goes back to that lack of craftsmanship, especially compared to the competition who are all working on the exact same engine

 

[Sixfortyfive]

With the way they have treated Dante in Marvel Infinite, I am legit shook when it comes to DMC5.

Like no god damn respect for the character or real effort put into him. Couldn't even copy/paste him in properly, it is actually astounding. Dante sells more games and earns Capcom more money than Megaman ever will yet they gotta do him like that? Then again they messed with Chun Li and Chris so it's not much of a stretch that they can mess up Dante too.

I am talking about how he plays, his moves and the lack of effects on some of them. And how it feels like someone who has never played DMC3 made him. Like that Acid Rain and Beowulf moves.. WHAT DA FUDGE!

You'll recall that Dante was one of Neo-G's favorite characters from any game ever.

And he ain't there anymore.

 

[Professor Beef]

What's wrong with that Iron Man gif? Is it because the new one isn't as flashy or something?

 

[Kadey]

Max is showing off the game and it looks way better than anything of it shown. Really, all they have to do is fix some faces and have better shaders, lighting and things will be fine.

 

[Seyavesh]

What's wrong with that Iron Man gif? Is it because the new one isn't as flashy or something?

yep! i guess it's just one of my random pet peeves based on the reaction of folks but i really enjoy the effects in marvel 3 and think iron man's are really great given the absurd amount of details in them for basically no real reason. it's hard to tell in that smaller gif but some of his normals and specials actually spawn small digital-lookin' cubes that break apart from the 'energy' hitting them. it's ridiculously excessive detail, especially given you're canceling normals and never see that shit ever

you'd think the reused animation and significantly higher console power would at the very least give them leeway in making something just as visually interesting for that move despite the nerfed hitbox and a lot of infinite kinda follows that trend effectswise where stuff just looks straight up worse in that department despite the improvements in other stuff like model detail and lighting.

i didn't even think about there only being 4 characters being loaded into the game instead of 6 as well until dahbomb's point reminded me so i guess that's another aspect to that buggin' me as well

 

[Dahbomb]

why question why i keep posting it if you understand how it's about the effects being so awful vs. it's predecessor? it is outright bizarre that it looks that bad- it's not like the game is more cluttered than 3!
like, engine woes totally could be a reason but that just goes back to that lack of craftsmanship, especially compared to the competition who are all working on the exact same engine

Because you have done it like 3 times already!

You'll recall that Dante was one of Neo-G's favorite characters from any game ever.

And he ain't there anymore.

Yeah that crossed my mind. Marvel 3 was definitely made by DMC fanboys... us DMC fans got to eat in that game.

 

[Karsticles]

Max is showing off the game and it looks way better than anything of it shown. Really, all they have to do is fix some faces and have better shaders, lighting and things will be fine.

And double the roster number.

 

[Anne]

I don't understand why I should respect an underwhelming demo from a publisher who's last fighting game was extremely disappointing for a lot of people. I legitimately don't get why Marvel or Capcom deserve the benefit of the doubt here.

 

[Dahbomb]

I don't understand why I should respect an underwhelming demo from a publisher who's last fighting game was extremely disappointing for a lot of people. I legitimately don't get why Marvel or Capcom deserve the benefit of the doubt here.

You shouldn't respect shit. Capcom deserves the shit coming at them especially for their tone deaf communication approach.

I am just saying the hate has gone full critical and has started to reach unfair territory. Like anyone saying "hey guys the game at E3 is pretty damn fun" is straight up berated for being a shill. Like hate on Capcom sure but why do you have to hate on everyone who has something positive to say about the game. It's like its impossible for some people to enjoy the game. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

And some people like SFV.

 

[kirblar]

You shouldn't respect shit. Capcom deserves the shit coming at them especially for their tone deaf communication approach.

I am just saying the hate has gone full critical and has started to reach unfair territory. Like anyone saying "hey guys the game at E3 is pretty damn fun" is straight up berated for being a shill. Like hate on Capcom sure but why do you have to hate on everyone who has something positive to say about the game. It's like its impossible for some people to enjoy the game. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

And some people like SFV.

Yeah, it's passed the point where it's reasonable criticism.

 

[Seyavesh]

Because you have done it like 3 times already!

i've only posted it twice, once in the marvel thread and once in here but i guess that racks up since you're lookin' at both threads anyhow

anyways to bring this to gameplay discussion rather than nitpicking at something only i care about- i'm really curious why they removed the flyscreen/SJ screen if they were going to make the chars so floaty on jumps/SJs.

i initially thought the removal was to fit in with the closed-in screen so ground-based characters could chase airdashers while maintaining the speed and strength of airdashes/flight but the speed they go upwards looks pretty rough for that kind of chasing down if that's the case

 

[Kadey]

You can love and hate things at the same time. And some times when you like or dislike something you can hold it to higher standards. In this day and age with the hardware that is out and how the other games are being pushed, you want something you have interest in to be in top form.

SFIV had me crying for two years before I finally accepted how it looks.

 

[Anne]

I mean, I'm not going to really go out of my way to get at people, I'm just saying. Justin will hype up literally any fighting game you put in front of him publicly. It's what he does. Same with Max. I am in no way surprised at that. Do they deserve shit for that? Eh, it's whatever. People should know this about them by now.

People like FChamp who have trashed other games over much less but continue to say "look Capcom is gonna fix it" get some hella weird looks from me. Like, look, I get it's part of the job to try and sell these games to people, but it's pretty obvious what's going on there.

I'm just gonna remain skeptical of Marvel (and DBZ for that matter) until I have a final product in front of me. The demo for Marvel is ass and that's all I got. I have a bit more faith in ASW since they haven't let me down that hard on the gameplay front in a long time, but still part of me is expecting the next HnK to come out of that.

 

[Dahbomb]

Yeah bad visuals isn't necessarily a death sentence. I think SF4 and IJ1 look like shit but they are super successful games. Compared to those games, I think MvCI looks a lot better even artistically.

 

[CO_Andy]

Aris was right: all these minor imperfections are a sure sign of a developer that just doesn't give a flip about the franchise's legacy.

It's time to resign ourselves to this franchise's future being Western made exclusively. Capcom ain't got the scratch to do shit these days unless they're whoring themselves out to a big publisher. Even when easy money is on the table (as in the case of the MonHun XX localization) they're unwilling to budge and take that risk for themselves.

 

[Anne]

Yeah, I think most people here can get over visuals if the game plays okay. Just hitting buttons in the MVCI demo feels gross though :/

 

[irfaanator]

Yeah, I think most people here can get over visuals if the game plays okay. Just hitting buttons in the MVCI demo feels gross though :/

my illuminati overlords say the e3 demo is good though.

 

[Kadey]

I personally never bothered to listen to what pros and stuff say about netcode and how a game is. Justin, Champ, Max and even Art are in the camp where they can exaggerate a game because no matter how good or bad it is, it needs to sell and get support.

Developers and publishers should have a system where you can download a full game and play for 30 minutes before you buy it. That way you can experience as many things as you can with the game and decide for yourself. Hearing or seeing it from someone doesn't cut it these days.

 

[Anne]

my illuminati overlords say the e3 demo is good though.

Tell the illuminati overlords to bring it to my house so I can see for myself.

 

[Dahbomb]

Yeah pretty much everyone who played the E3 demo and the story mode demo said that the E3 demo is significantly better.

Like even the cooldowns on the tag switch is different between builds. It's literally half in the E3 build and that's something you can see for yourself, you don't need some pro telling you that.

 

[Shouta]

You can tell the MvCi system is really interesting even in the shitty story demo. I just wish they would have put out something more friendly and meaty to mess around with and made it time-limited or so.

Like, I really wanted to see if switch combos with X's boomerang worked but enemies died too fast before I could get anything started. =(

 

[irfaanator]

Tell the illuminati overlords to bring it to my house so I can see for myself.

theyre too busy living it up drinking bud light and trying to push wheelbarrows of money out from capcom hq

 

[mamoniadas]

It also didn't help that the first EVO was 2v2, it made people take the game less seriously I feel.

I completely forgot about the 2v2 ruling. What a joke that was.

 

[Tizoc]

sfxtk gave us one of the best fgc memes. tom cruise in top gun throwing the game away

And then the game coming back to him.

 

[Sayad]

that acid rain is one of the most disgusting things i have ever seen in a fighting game
it's so fucking ugly

there's not any good footage of it yet but it's worse than the diff. between iron man's normals suddenly turning into paint shop pro gradients from 2002

the theme for him is mindblowingly bad too, haha. the difference between any version of devils never cry and that one is a really great metaphor for the difference between 3 and infinite's craftwork

Not sure what you're on about, quality of the effect is the same, it's just a different looking special effect now! It's more worrying that it's using the exact same animation. Some of MvC3 animations really doesn't fit the new models(Like Chun's walk).

 

[broz0rs]

Then Justin is making zero sense.

Like, you can't hold it against the players because Capcom released that shit demo and be like "we played the REAL demo of the game! take our word for it, it'll be hype!! mahvel!!"

He deserved to be blown the fuck up for even making that point.

Interesting, because Justin initially shit on MVC3. iirc he was complaining that if a player wanted to win, just pick Sentinel. It took him weeks to get accustomed and start liking the game. The fact that he's going so hard at championing MVCI right now doesn't make him look very authentic.

Question regarding the game, the assist feature is removed and replaced by the tag system? Is this like SFxT?

 

[Sayad]

"Do you want a better Chun face in MvCI? Make your voices be heard."

Interesting, because Justin initially shit on MVC3. iirc he was complaining that if a player wanted to win, just pick Sentinel. It took him weeks to get accustomed and start liking the game. The fact that he's going so hard at championing MVCI right now doesn't make him look very authentic.

Question regarding the game, the assist feature is removed and replaced by the tag system? Is this like SFxT?

Wouldn't say the demo is bad, you can see the potential of the system, the concerning part is the neutral though. In MvC3, you couldn't touch UMvC3 top players mainly because you couldn't put them in situations where you could force you 50/50 stuff because of their superior mobility, with how nerffed that is in MvCI, it should be much easier to force someone into those situations now. Game does look like it has proper defensive options though so I'll wait and see.

 

[Seyavesh]

Not sure what you're on about, quality of the effect is the same, it's just a different looking special effect now! It's more worrying that it's using the exact same animation. Some of MvC3 animations really doesn't fit the new models(Like Chun's walk).

shrug, it's totally possible and not out of the norm for me to be a crazy person when it comes to this since it's insanely apparent to me. the only real thing that trips me up with the animation re-use is stuff like nova's launcher being his st.HK now instead of his st.H just 'cuz i've mentally associated his launcher kick as a launcher for so long

Interesting, because Justin initially shit on MVC3. iirc he was complaining that if a player wanted to win, just pick Sentinel. It took him weeks to get accustomed and start liking the game. The fact that he's going so hard at championing MVCI right now doesn't make him look very authentic.

Question regarding the game, the assist feature is removed and replaced by the tag system? Is this like SFxT?

assists are gone and replaced with the tag system, yeah. you can tag at any time so the idea is to generate dynamic scenarios by having chars do moves/position themselves in a way to take advantage of the other char's action in a way similar to the basic concept of assists while increasing the overall risk factor (due to having to commit on both chars rather than only with the assist)

never played it myself, but folks say that sfxt had a similar thing where you'd be doing moves and tagging to create mixup situations off blockstrings/hits so i guess there's a similarity in that regard

and yeah, justin and a lot of folks shit on mvc3 hard when it first released, especially during the first 2 months of the game. but it was a pretty different era when it comes to that kinda corporate imaging as well so i guess there's not really much to expect. the nature of the environment makes it hard to tell if folks are truly genuine about their feelings or not. like other people in this thread have said, ultimately the biggest thing is just gonna be gettin' hands on the game and determining if it has that appealing "feel" that draws folks in for whatever reason

"Do you want a better Chun face in MvCI? Make your voices be heard."

what's with the quotation marks? who said this?

 

[Sayad]

what's with the quotation marks? who said this?

No one specifically, but there's a punch of "Do you want ---------? Make your voice heard" threads on gaf's front page right now. >_<

 

[Beckx]

But this new hate trend has gone way past over the top. People are so scared of another SFV situation happening that they are lashing out exceedingly.

It's the flip side of the coin of hype culture. And it's awful, both sides of it. Once the meme lords have decided a game is bad its over, like when some folks decided Shinobi couldn't possibly be truly enjoying Amdromeda and had to be a shill.

But Capcom games in particular, man, its gross all around. Try to make the "gameplay is what matters" point by mentioning how many fighters KOF has that play great, and watch the defenders leap to the "PS2 game" shit. "Gameplay matters most" when it's deployed to protect the beloved brand. I mean I get it because like Andromeda showed, game culture is all or nothing these days. So people want to get in front and slow that train down.

 

[MrCarter]

I trolled Justin's MVCI stream chat long enough that he finally admitted that DBZ looks better

Edit: Justin is going hard on the Capcom damage control.

Why are you trolling him? To reinforce that your decision is actually better when it's completely subjective? He said he liked both games and that he shouldn't be considered a shill when he praised DBF too. Let's end it there.

 

[Zissou]

What's the 'default' stick layout for infinite?

LP HP tag
LK HK stone

?