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Final Fantasy is going through a Midlife Identity Crisis - Opinion

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
Most of the people who say “Final Fantasy should go back to turn based” aren’t even interested in playing such a game. These are the same people who would just find 1000 other things to bitch about.
FACTUAL. There are many other turn based video games like Octopath, like Live a Live, like Bravely Default, like Dragon Quest, like Persona, i can go on all day with examples of turn based RPGs.
All those games bro. all turn based. play them. PLEASE
WHY complain about Final Fantasy specifically
 

Dr. Claus

Vincit qui se vincit
This is untrue.. they just hide it better. FF15 was ATB. They all have been since 4. I’ve already explained it.
Laugh Lol GIF
 

Klosshufvud

Member
FACTUAL. There are many other turn based video games like Octopath, like Live a Live, like Bravely Default, like Dragon Quest, like Persona, i can go on all day with examples of turn based RPGs.
All those games bro. all turn based. play them. PLEASE
WHY complain about Final Fantasy specifically
To be fair, there's quite the gap between turn based and pure action based DMC-style gameplay. There is definitely a huge middle ground where were FF traditionally ends up as. We've seen extremely modest "RPG" mechanics from FF16 in previews. The fact that you only control one guy now makes it all the more telling.
 

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
To be fair, there's quite the gap between turn based and pure action based DMC-style gameplay. There is definitely a huge middle ground where were FF traditionally ends up as. We've seen extremely modest "RPG" mechanics from FF16 in previews. The fact that you only control one guy now makes it all the more telling.
that just makes it even weirder because the ATB FFs aren't as turn based as Dragon Quest or even many of the newer games like Octopath and Persona which are straight up Turn based. The ATB battle system leaves a lot of wasted time waiting for bars to refill and other junk. Technically the newer turn based RPGs are better than the ATB games we got 20-30 years ago yet people still want FF to go back to that...?
 
If I get my CG cutscenes, I’m happy.

This is a shot from the opening of FFXIII, which released 13 years ago.

2GAThaY.jpg




This shot is, as far as we know, the highest quality version of Jill, a character from FFXVI, releasing in 2 months, that we’ll see.

Ej23VbX.jpg



“The visuals are good enough” my rear hind. I want my eye candy and SE has their own internal CG studio and I will continue to whine until CG cutscenes are confirmed.
Zt1gRxm.jpg

How’s this?
 
The FF fan base it's very passionated. literally everyone has a favorite entry in this franchise, but this is expected after all the franchise exists for over 30 years, so the definition of "Final Fantasy" differs for everyone, but for me FF stands for innovation and brand new experiences in RPG, similar to what FFVII was for everyone back in the day. so to me FFXVI follows the logical and correct path, and i respect those who think differently and to be honest i am not the proper guy to talk about it even if FFXVI ends up being an "Final May Cry" i still all-in because i love DMC lol 😂.
 
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Go_Ly_Dow

Member
Imagine if the turn based fanatics got their wish, all these glorious Eikon clashes rendered in real-time would just be the two models statically standing there throwing spells at each other in repetitve fashion, rather than glorious high and dynamic intensity visual splender they are about to deliver. Not to forget that each battle will be unique.
 
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Ansphn

Member
Looks absolutely epic to me



Sorry to hear your can't move on from old fashioned turn based combat OP. That's what your entire argument centres around. FF is a high production narrative driven adventure game and experience. Emphasising the journey of a certain set of characters, focusing on themes of heroism/friendship in a changing world.

If the new series visionaries/developers and new hardware tech available means they can produce new gameplay ideas within that framework, then let them instead of holding them back to these archaic whims of what FF is.

Couldn't say it better myself. I would also like to add that these people created Final fantasy so they can do what the hell they want. It's not up to the player to tell them what to do with their future games. There are plenty of traditional RPGs littered throughout the PS store. Old and new. Play those games and shut the hell up and stop crying. I will not allow you to stop growth, inspiration, and evolution.
 
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Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
Imagine if the turn based fanatics got their wish, all these glorious Eikon clashes rendered in real-time would just be the two models statically standing there throwing spells at each other in repetitve fashion, rather than glorious high intensity visual splender they are about to deliver.
Even if they did turn based there will people complain why its turn based and its was more like Nomura game people would complain its "weeby trash", no matter what SE dose people will complain.

Devs doesn't need list to so called "fans" and instead make the games they want to make.

All this thread comes down to the same stupid old tiring argument of "old games good and new games bad"
 

KingT731

Member
This is why people don't take these "Final Fantasy Fans" seriously. Series change/evolve and FF has been on the frontline doing just that. Tons of turn based games out there if that's what they want but...I don't see them buying/playing those games....
 

Fuz

Banned
Imagine if the turn based fanatics got their wish, all these glorious Eikon clashes rendered in real-time would just be the two models statically standing there throwing spells at each other in repetitve fashion, rather than glorious high and dynamic intensity visual splender they are about to deliver. Not to forget that each battle will be unique.
They're QTE.
Not sure you've been informed, but apparently you can hve QTE and animations in turn based.
 

Nautilus

Banned
They're QTE.
Not sure you've been informed, but apparently you can hve QTE and animations in turn based.
Yeah. As if these Eikons battles are super complex and have deep gameplay, and not a glorified cutscene with a few button prompts.
 

kiphalfton

Member
How many turn based games are there in the series. How many other series have that many entries.

Those are both rhetorical questions.

You got enough games that were turn based. Don't like it, too bad so sad.
 
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TheInfamousKira

Reseterror Resettler
ATB, you can’t attack until your timer runs out.

Now tell me which FF since 3 doesn’t go by that formula?

Lightning Returns
Probably the MMOs, I can't be arsed to play them
FFVIIR does away with it largely, too, resigning it to solely special abilities/healing. You can attack until you're blue in the face.
 

ByWatterson

Member
Going through? It's been 14 years since Final Fantasy was even arguably turn-based, and 17 years since it was definitely turn-based.

Ship has sailed.
 

TheAssist

Member
Final Fantasy I: A dungeon and dragons inspired turn based RPG hold together by hopes and dreams. Hardly any story, absolutely no character development (in terms of story). Basic, but decent for the time of release.

Final Fantasy II: Realized they had people who can actually come up with some of their own monster designs. Completely threw away the old progression system in favor of...something...different. Established a lot of the now recognized Final Fantasy tropes like certain recurring characters and items. Tried some character writing.

Final Fantasy III: Got rid of most of the remaining D&D stuff. Again changed the progression completely to a job system. Bit half baked and very grindy, but decent for the time. Character writer seemed to be on holiday for that one though.

Final Fantasy IV: New combat system. New focus on story. Character writer had one hell of a holiday and wrote a huge script. They then threw away 80% of it because the wasnt enough space on the cartridge.

Final Fantasy V: Again...new progression system, similar to III but on steroids. Also it just has a completely different vibe from any of the other games.

Final Fantasy VI: Basically a greatest hits album, writing staff got a raise. Went all out. Changed progression system again.

Final Fantasy VII: Unrecognizable as a Final Fantasy game. Changed everything except for the general combat system. Did introduce a lot of new stuff in the progression system though.

Final Fantasy VIII: Again, unrecognizable as a Final Fantasy game. Being different then what came before cemented itself as part of the series by now. I mean have you seen the progression system in this game?

Final Fantasy IX: Greatest hit album part II. Wanted to go back to the roots of the series for a bit to please old fans. Didnt sell as well as VII and VIII though.

Final Fantasy X: New combat and progression system (again, one might feel like there is a pattern to this), though still turn based. Again very atypical setting for an FF game. Ditched world maps.

Final Fantasy XI: Online...that was a change

Final Fantasy XII: Kinda like XI, but offline. Completely new combat system...again. Very different kind of story for being within the main series. Also, hunts.

Final Fantasy XIII. New combat system...jesus stop it already. Introduction of one of the worst characters in video game history (imho). But lets not lose HOPE. No, actually, lets.

Final Fantasy XIV: Bad until it was one of the best.

Final Fantasy XV: New combat system. Only one permanent party. Bromance. Lots of potential but capitalism seemed to happen somewhere along the line.

Final Fantasy VIIR: New...combat...system... fml.

What combat system are we nostalgic for exactly?
Like the true turn based one, the ATB turn based ones, CTB, gambits, whatever XIII was doing? I'm so lost. Seems like changing stuff, going with the times and adapting to new trends is kinda what made this series stay relevant for 30 fucking years in the first place.

It might seem like they changed combat systems more often towards the second half, but remember that in the early days there was a new FF game almost every year, so the industry didn't change as much between games. Later on the gaps became much bigger and therefore the changes between games grew.
 

ByWatterson

Member
It's also important to point out that the audience for turn-based is today nowhere near big enough to support the production values we've come to expect from Final Fantasy.
 
Can you show me something better ingame than this from a different game? Because this is ace
You are joking, right?

Listen, I’m happy for the people that are 100% hyped but it’s another to pretend that it’s the bestest ever in everything that ever was.

Plus, I remember you wrote a comment here months ago sounding excited over the game having CG cutscenes, but now that it’s not exactly likely that the game will have any, you’re trying to act like it has such amazing character models that CG cutscenes won’t make a difference?


I would be incredibly hyped for this game if CG cutscenes were confirmed. But if the best we’re getting in XVI is smoke-and-mirrors cutscenes where there’s a bunch of “background pre-rendered elements” mixed with the honestly meh character models, I’m extremely disappointed. I want my eye candy.
 
I grew up with Final Fantasy on the NES so turn-based is my jam but I'm extremely optimistic about XVI because I also like reflex based games when done right.
 

MagiusNecros

Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
FF started the transition with Type 0 more or less. ARPG route is the future. If you don't like that then games like Dragon Quest, Octopath exist for you.

I have no doubt the game will be great but it very much looks like a high end DMC/Bayonetta game with a a narrative.
 
Final Fantasy I: A dungeon and dragons inspired turn based RPG hold together by hopes and dreams. Hardly any story, absolutely no character development (in terms of story). Basic, but decent for the time of release.

Final Fantasy II: Realized they had people who can actually come up with some of their own monster designs. Completely threw away the old progression system in favor of...something...different. Established a lot of the now recognized Final Fantasy tropes like certain recurring characters and items. Tried some character writing.

Final Fantasy III: Got rid of most of the remaining D&D stuff. Again changed the progression completely to a job system. Bit half baked and very grindy, but decent for the time. Character writer seemed to be on holiday for that one though.

Final Fantasy IV: New combat system. New focus on story. Character writer had one hell of a holiday and wrote a huge script. They then threw away 80% of it because the wasnt enough space on the cartridge.

Final Fantasy V: Again...new progression system, similar to III but on steroids. Also it just has a completely different vibe from any of the other games.

Final Fantasy VI: Basically a greatest hits album, writing staff got a raise. Went all out. Changed progression system again.

Final Fantasy VII: Unrecognizable as a Final Fantasy game. Changed everything except for the general combat system. Did introduce a lot of new stuff in the progression system though.

Final Fantasy VIII: Again, unrecognizable as a Final Fantasy game. Being different then what came before cemented itself as part of the series by now. I mean have you seen the progression system in this game?

Final Fantasy IX: Greatest hit album part II. Wanted to go back to the roots of the series for a bit to please old fans. Didnt sell as well as VII and VIII though.

Final Fantasy X: New combat and progression system (again, one might feel like there is a pattern to this), though still turn based. Again very atypical setting for an FF game. Ditched world maps.

Final Fantasy XI: Online...that was a change

Final Fantasy XII: Kinda like XI, but offline. Completely new combat system...again. Very different kind of story for being within the main series. Also, hunts.

Final Fantasy XIII. New combat system...jesus stop it already. Introduction of one of the worst characters in video game history (imho). But lets not lose HOPE. No, actually, lets.

Final Fantasy XIV: Bad until it was one of the best.

Final Fantasy XV: New combat system. Only one permanent party. Bromance. Lots of potential but capitalism seemed to happen somewhere along the line.

Final Fantasy VIIR: New...combat...system... fml.

What combat system are we nostalgic for exactly?
Like the true turn based one, the ATB turn based ones, CTB, gambits, whatever XIII was doing? I'm so lost. Seems like changing stuff, going with the times and adapting to new trends is kinda what made this series stay relevant for 30 fucking years in the first place.

It might seem like they changed combat systems more often towards the second half, but remember that in the early days there was a new FF game almost every year, so the industry didn't change as much between games. Later on the gaps became much bigger and therefore the changes between games grew.
Wait what?!

Is any of it known to the public?
 
You are joking, right?

Listen, I’m happy for the people that are 100% hyped but it’s another to pretend that it’s the bestest ever in everything that ever was.

Plus, I remember you wrote a comment here months ago sounding excited over the game having CG cutscenes, but now that it’s not exactly likely that the game will have any, you’re trying to act like it has such amazing character models that CG cutscenes won’t make a difference?


I would be incredibly hyped for this game if CG cutscenes were confirmed. But if the best we’re getting in XVI is smoke-and-mirrors cutscenes where there’s a bunch of “background pre-rendered elements” mixed with the honestly meh character models, I’m extremely disappointed. I want my eye candy.
The game looks very good and the combat is a 10. Im happy, can’t speak for you my guy. I still would love to see a comparable game with better graphics tbh
 

TheAssist

Member
Wait what?!

Is any of it known to the public?

Yeah I read the interview years ago. Dont know if it was 80%. Cant find the interview now, but here is what chat gpt had to say:

"Yes, it is known that the script for Final Fantasy IV (released as Final Fantasy II in North America) had to be shortened during development due to technical limitations. The game was released for the Super Nintendo Entertainment System (SNES) in 1991, and at the time, there were limitations on the amount of memory that could be used for text in the game.

According to various interviews with the game's developers, including director and scenario writer Hironobu Sakaguchi and lead programmer Nasir Gebelli, the team had originally planned a longer story with more dialogue and cutscenes. However, they had to cut down the script and simplify the story in order to fit within the memory constraints of the SNES cartridge."
 

Skelterz

Member
What I find incredible is I’ve been saying this for months on this forum and everybody usually shits on it, but in long form it seems more agreeable to most people 😂 interesting great write up.
 

Fredrik

Member
Yeah, just program a turned based game within it for those who choose, all the assets are there. I don't want to play Kingdom Hearts.

VII at least had character switches, this is just gaem.
Would love a high budget AAA turn-based spin-off. There is so much they could do in that space if they want to be experimental. Just tried Loop Hero today, ended up playing for 3 hours. Extremely unique game, can barely describe it.
 

Shifty1897

Member
Final Fantasy is a JRPG series hell bent on reinventing itself in some way with each entry. Unfortunately, that reinvention hasn't worked at the GOTY level in 22 years. XVI is making a strong prerelease showing right now, but it has to compete with RE4 Remake, Zelda, Star Wars Jedi Fallen Order, and who knows what else this Fall for GOTY, so it's a tough year to compete.
 

StueyDuck

Member
Weird thread since FF7 remake just released basically and it beautifully married both old and new in its combat.

Nothing wrong with a game with SIXTEEN In its title to try something different or new.

Rather that then the hot shit we got in 12 and 13.

Also the franchise already jumped ship with 15 so this concern and upset also makes no sense, the series has already changed 🤷‍♂️

ATB and TBC are both great but require the combat encounters to be perfect, else it becomes brainless like persona 5.

FFX is the last time we really got a good 3D turn based combat title..

Also lol at shameless self promotion of channel
 
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Skelterz

Member
Jesus H Christ. The last turn based mainline FF game came out over 20 years ago. Time for you dipshits to begin the healing process and move on to something else.

The old turn based FF games are completely mindless and repetitive as hell. The only reason they are playable nowadays is because of auto battle + fast forward.

Good riddance. FF XVI looks fucking awesome.

If turnbased video games are completely mindless and repetitive then how is it Persona 5 was up for GOTY? Mindless and repetitive to me is spamming buttons over and over without thinking.
 

Synless

Member
If turnbased video games are completely mindless and repetitive then how is it Persona 5 was up for GOTY? Mindless and repetitive to me is spamming buttons over and over without thinking.
Persona 5 was mostly liked because of its story. The game is not special, dungeons were uninspired, graphics were ps3 level, and the gameplay was ok. In other words it’s truly overrated.

Now, I love turn based games but final fantasy does not need and hasn’t been one in years. It’s moving in the right direction.
 
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Hugare

Member
It’s a very okay character model. Nowhere near good enough to omit CG cutscenes
Nowhere near as good as CG cutscenes

But spending millions of budget in those cutscenes that would look entirely different than ingame cutscenes would be worth it? Not to mention +50gb for the game's size.

Worst cutscene in FF 7 Remake was the CG one in the Shinra building where Cloud and crew saw the future with the meteor.
Looked great, but it was jarring to see characters and etc. at a different fidelity just for 2 minutes of cutscene.

I would rather have had the cutscene be ingame like the others in the game.

We are not in the PS1 era anymore. Ingame cutscenes are good enough
 
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