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[hyperbertha]

can't wait for the jessica mao patch where they add her name to the credits.

 

[TheDreadBaron]

Maybe. If enough employees cry about it. But likely not needed as nobody gives a shit.

A media employee's mindset is if Pepsi or Dominos pizza came out with a brand new product, the first thing you should see is the Senior Marketing Manager and Senior R&D Manager's names plastered on the home page along with the 100s other employees that helped launch it. Or even better, their names are stamped on the pizza box or tin can. And if it wasnt for them it wouldnt be available to buy. Who cares.

Everyone loves the slick design of Apple products. Does anyone know which team of people come out with this snazzy stuff? Who knows. Who cares.

You’re a pretty thoughtful person, so I’m pretty sure you can understand the value of being credited for your work. It’s most valuable to the person being credited, not to an end user of a product. I’m interested in people being credited for their own sake, and so that when it’s my turn to be credited the standard isn’t “nobody cares” Personally I think the credits should be unobtrusive, but easily accessible, like a special menu option or subsection of a website, not plastered in your face and unskippable.

 

[hyperbertha]

Seriously?

Well, thats embarassing. She made a lot of videos talking about the experience of working there, how proud she was, showed herself wearing a hoodie with "staff" on it or something like that

I wonder how long before she makes an essay about it on twitter too. This just screams attention getting. It sucks that you were not credited, but twitter is not the place.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

You’re a pretty thoughtful person, so I’m pretty sure you can understand the value of being credited for your work. It’s most valuable to the person being credited, not to an end user of a product. I’m interested in people being credited for their own sake, and so that when it’s my turn to be credited the standard isn’t “nobody cares” Personally I think the credits should be unobtrusive, but easily accessible, like a special menu option or subsection of a website, not plastered in your face and unskippable.

If its not valuable to the end user, why have it on public display? If it's that important do an internal memo with people's names on it.

Every person at my company (different job roles), all do our own part to make the wheel turn. Why do I (or anyone else) need to have our name somewhere to know we work? Everyone internally vested in the project already knows who is and isnt part of the team. And even if someone doesn't know who that person is (I highly doubt the warehouse guys know what I do, and vice versa), who really cares.

Why do media employees care a lot about public recognition with credit rolls, when nobody else care about having their name somewhere on the product or website?

 

[hyperbertha]

Yeah, some more than others have been emotionally traumatized by this game. But I'm not going to name any names.

On an unrelated note, what happened here, I wonder.....

 

[TheDreadBaron]

If its not valuable to the end user, why have it on public display? If it's that important do an internal memo with people's names on it.

Every person at my company (different job roles), all do our own part to make the wheel turn. Why do I (or anyone else) need to have our name somewhere to know we work? Everyone internally vested in the project already knows who is and isnt part of the team. And even if someone doesn't know who that person is (I highly doubt the warehouse guys know what I do, and vice versa), who really cares.

Why do media employees care a lot about public recognition with credit rolls, when nobody else care about having their name somewhere on the product or website?

Okay, because that’s the only way you can get a new job when the company you work for throws you away. They claim ownership of all your work, and the deal is that in return you get credited so that you can prove your work got used on a real project, see your name is right there in the credits. Sometimes they confiscate hard drives and everything so you can’t even put that work into your portfolio. It’s one of the most valuable things you can take away from a game job, a credit on a completed project. I can see how it doesn’t make as much sense in other contexts, but in creative media people are hired on at one studio for one project and often move on afterwards, so that credit is part of the record of their work that is totally invaluable to advancing their career.

 

[BusierDonkey]

Literally not even remotely the same thing whatsoever in any way, shape, form, dimension, and or being.

We both didn't meet the criteria required to be credited for the project.

 

[K' Dash]

If its not valuable to the end user, why have it on public display? If it's that important do an internal memo with people's names on it.

Every person at my company (different job roles), all do our own part to make the wheel turn. Why do I (or anyone else) need to have our name somewhere to know we work? Everyone internally vested in the project already knows who is and isnt part of the team. And even if someone doesn't know who that person is (I highly doubt the warehouse guys know what I do, and vice versa), who really cares.

Why do media employees care a lot about public recognition with credit rolls, when nobody else care about having their name somewhere on the product or website?

Yeah, she still can put it on her resume, nobody is going to check the games credits to find her name there.

 

[Clear]

Here’s the deal about interns - they are slave labour, working at a much lower wage than the regular employees. If SM is not hiring then it will be dumb not to take an intern, make her work for a few month and then let go, no problem whatsoever.

This is irrelevant. Do Janitors get credited even though building maintenance is actually way more practical and useful than raw newbies in technical/artistic roles who not only do not contribute meaningfully to the project but in actuality need to be constantly babysat and mentored.

People need to know their roles. If you're an intern you should keep your head down, absorb as much as possible, and at the end of your time be thankful for the opportunity of getting some industry experience.

Fucking hell! Do you not see how entitled it is to try and put yourself on the level of time-served professionals despite basically just walking in off of a liberal arts campus?

 

[StreetsofBeige]

This is irrelevant. Do Janitors get credited even though building maintenance is actually way more practical and useful than raw newbies in technical/artistic roles who not only do not contribute meaningfully to the project but in actuality need to be constantly babysat and mentored.

People need to know their roles. If you're an intern you should keep your head down, absorb as much as possible, and at the end of your time be thankful for the opportunity of getting some industry experience.

Fucking hell! Do you not see how entitled it is to try and put yourself on the level of time-served professionals despite basically just walking in off of a liberal arts campus?

Our company did summer interns for 10 years. Some got offered a job after they graduated. Most didn't get a job offer. Looking at their linkedin or either of one us connecting with each other, every one of them put their 6-12 month tenure on their resume, most connected with a lot of us, and all still found jobs elsewhere. You wont find their names on any product or webpage.

I dont think recruiters from any industry are looking for absolute genius level proof of content from interns in order to be hired. At this stage in their career (which is technically zero since they havent even got their first FT job yet), a good resume, attitude and answering questions with the hiring manager are more important.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Here’s the deal about interns - they are slave labour, working at a much lower wage than the regular employees. If SM is not hiring then it will be dumb not to take an intern, make her work for a few month and then let go, no problem whatsoever.

No, they are not. They get credits for courses, as well as learn some valuable experience more often than not. It's also a good way they can start networking, as well as good resume filler if they aren't offered full time work after.

Not to mention, they're as green as it gets in the industry. Far from servitude or on the backs of slavery.

Standouts with valuable contributions will be offered a job full time, seen it my self in a development studio, a lot do start off as interns. Less valuable have minimal contributions to the project.

For some perspective, Phil Spencer started off as an intern at Microsoft in 1988.

 

[TheDreadBaron]

Yeah, she still can put it on her resume, nobody is going to check the games credits to find her name there.

There’s value in there being a public record of who worked on a project directly attached to the work itself, especially when game studios are so ephemeral.

 

[ReBurn]

Anyone defending a company not putting folks in credits is an idiot

Credits don't mean anything. Do you think other developers watch credits and say "wow, we really need to get the 14th animator in this list on out team!"

Nobody cares about video game credits except the people in them. Just kill credits in video games and problem solved.

 

[sankt-Antonio]

Obligatory: “please refrain from hot takes” until we get more info, but it’s not looking good for Santa Monica - putting anyone that worked on the game for even 5 minutes doesn’t cost anything. “Minimum criteria” lol.

If bonus payments to people on the credit list are a possibility, minimum criteria becomes a thing very fast. Some companies have stuff like "one year of employment" etc. So yeah, an intern who edited a stem could not be enough here.

 

[TLZ]

This is irrelevant. Do Janitors get credited even though building maintenance is actually way more practical and useful than raw newbies in technical/artistic roles who not only do not contribute meaningfully to the project but in actuality need to be constantly babysat and mentored.

People need to know their roles. If you're an intern you should keep your head down, absorb as much as possible, and at the end of your time be thankful for the opportunity of getting some industry experience.

Fucking hell! Do you not see how entitled it is to try and put yourself on the level of time-served professionals despite basically just walking in off of a liberal arts campus?

Makes sense.

Although it's still all up to the company. Like someone else here said, there are no rules to this. I was credited in a Konami game for being a data editor and I hardly did much, compared to the Devs work of course.

 

[Clear]

Makes sense.

Although it's still all up to the company. Like someone else here said, there are no rules to this. I was credited in a Konami game for being a data editor and I hardly did much, compared to the Devs work of course.

Exactly, and that being the case expectation is the key thing.

I'd never begrudge anyone getting due credit, but at the end of the day if you are only on a project for a sliver of its entire duration -and in a minor position.... I don't think it reflects well to make demands. If nothing else it throws shade on the entire team effort and allows drama-farmers an in to pearl-clutch about. Noone comes out of it looking good, which is unfair because not everyone gets a say on the precise formulation of the in-game credits.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Exactly, and that being the case expectation is the key thing.

I'd never begrudge anyone getting due credit, but at the end of the day if you are only on a project for a sliver of its entire duration -and in a minor position.... I don't think it reflects well to make demands. If nothing else it throws shade on the entire team effort and allows drama-farmers an in to pearl-clutch about. Noone comes out of it looking good, which is unfair because not everyone gets a say on the precise formulation of the in-game credits.

I think what's happened is some games are so big with a million employees going on for 20 minutes, they've set a precedent in having giant credit rolls. So if the UBER guy who delivered food gets on the list as well as Culligan dude who refills the water coolers, everyone wants their 15 minutes of fame.

Now if video game credits were modest only having the key people on it, then all the underlings and interns cant grill them on who is and isnt included.

I've said this before on GAF regarding things.... give people too much money or leniency in life and it becomes an entitlement or expectation because a precedent has been set. It then becomes hard to scrape it back in the future because someone will say "but but but.... last year you did it this way".

Here's a good example of employee dumbassery. During covid, we all got told at work to pack up your stuff and dont come back to the office. We literally had 24 hours notice. Take home whatever you can carry out even the LCD monitors. If you need stuff buy and it and expense it. You arent allowed back in the building until TBD.

The entire office had a conference call to go over what happened and answer any questions best as possible. Youd think everyone asking questions would asking about ETA to return back, or what do I do if I left something important in my desk, and for people not accustomed to logging in from home (not everyone has a laptop), what do they do? They didn't carry out a tower. Is there a website based log in?

All reasonable questions.

You know what one fucktard asked? No joke.

"Hi, our company gives out free samples every 6 months. How do we get the free stuff if we are WFH?"

The exec's answer: "You dont"

 

[M1chl]

I mean it's few characters

But again if the credits are like a movie, which has 10GB, then I understand that it's not worth it.

However for finding another gig, this shit is really really important

 

[TLZ]

Exactly, and that being the case expectation is the key thing.

I'd never begrudge anyone getting due credit, but at the end of the day if you are only on a project for a sliver of its entire duration -and in a minor position.... I don't think it reflects well to make demands. If nothing else it throws shade on the entire team effort and allows drama-farmers an in to pearl-clutch about. Noone comes out of it looking good, which is unfair because not everyone gets a say on the precise formulation of the in-game credits.

I actually never cared, or more precisely didn't expect it. So I was pleasantly surprised when I saw my name there. Tbh though, what's more important is having their name (popular company) and that experience on your CV. But drama queens are drama queens. And Twitter is their home.

 

[TLZ]

You know what one fucktard asked? No joke.

"Hi, our company gives out free samples every 6 months. How do we get the free stuff if we are WFH?"

The exec's answer: "You dont"

Dude is hooked! Must be something in those free samples.

 

[Secret of Evolution]

Well that's a crock of shit. Minimum contribution? The fuck does that even mean? They contributed to the game, pop their name in the credits, why would this even be an issue?

They really didn’t have the space to add an extra name to the list of 500 others.

 

[Macattk15]

Lol. Does anyone know how often work by interns goes uncredited or is claimed as someone else's in the working world ..... ?

Not saying it's right, but what a nothingburger.

 

[Pegasus Actual]

Guys I toiled in QA on ATV Offroad Fury 4 for months and I did not make the credits. Basically I never recovered from this slight.

And like... if you played this game... and you were like "hey why is this blade of grass free-floating in the air above instead of sprouting out of the ground", well let me tell you it ain't my fault. I typed them coordinates into one of the shared computers and for all I know it even made it into a rudimentary database. And who knows maybe some of them blades of grass I found actually got removed from the game so you're fucking welcome!

What I'm saying, Jessica Andromeda Mao and Alanis Pearce, I feel ya. Let's commiserate over some Korean BBQ.

Is that her real name?

I believe her birth certificate says "Boobies McVirtue"

 

[Xaero Gravity]

we need AI COMPOSERS in the gaming industry ..................

they always work and never complain

Would bang/10

 

[gaming_again]

Okay, because that’s the only way you can get a new job when the company you work for throws you away. They claim ownership of all your work, and the deal is that in return you get credited so that you can prove your work got used on a real project, see your name is right there in the credits. Sometimes they confiscate hard drives and everything so you can’t even put that work into your portfolio. It’s one of the most valuable things you can take away from a game job, a credit on a completed project. I can see how it doesn’t make as much sense in other contexts, but in creative media people are hired on at one studio for one project and often move on afterwards, so that credit is part of the record of their work that is totally invaluable to advancing their career.

The next company she works for will phone SMS’ HR department to confirm she worked there if want to double check.

That’s if any company wants to hire somebody who is unprofessional enough to air their drama over Twitter lmao.

 

[IFireflyl]

I know this is old and (likely) forgotten news, but apparently they added her in the credits.

 

[Topher]

Oh.....I remember this thread. First two pages were entertaining to say the least.

I know this is old and (likely) forgotten news, but apparently they added her in the credits.

Good to hear they were able to get that addressed.

 

[Jennings]

Congrats, Jessica Mao. The game wouldn't have been half of what it is without you.

 

[Balducci30]

She was an intern?

 

[IFireflyl]

Oh.....I remember this thread. First two pages were entertaining to say the least.

I think this thread proved that most people don't care about causes or issues they keyboard warrior about. We just want to take a side and get up on our pedestals. Nobody that posted in this thread remembered this lady after a week.

 

[McCarth]

Jfc millennials… who gives a shit? Freakin intern work? Put it on your damn CV, use your references and get a real job.

 

[Topher]

She was an intern?

Yes, SMS hires interns with the promise of being in the credits.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Jfc millennials… who gives a shit? Freakin intern work? Put it on your damn CV, use your references and get a real job.

She should be licking the toes of whomever got her name in the credits.

Going by that page, her name is even above the people conducting the London session orchestra. Her internship must had been gigantic contributions.

Fuck, maybe on Monday I'll ask the VP to add my name to the home page of our internal database tool which IT implemented years ago. I was one of the people who was there day one giving feedback what should be included and how it should be laid out. I hopped on a plane and flew to head office. And when the coders had prototypes to test over the years, I even field tested it to make sure it works and the metric calculations looked accurate. It then launched companywide after about 3 years.

I want to make sure every employee knows I was part of it.

 

[NickFire]

I went exactly as far as this post. If she is responsible for the music in the posted vid my opinion is she should be credited.

 

[NikuNashi]

She should count herself lucky to intern at one of the most famous devs in the world and on one of the industries biggest franchises. She should have kept her grievances to herself and moved on, that shows maturity and understanding of your position. This behavior by an intern screams problem employee with no self awareness and a future minefield of problems ahead. I imagine many potential doors just closed on her.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

She should count herself lucky to intern at one of the most famous devs in the world and on one of the industries biggest franchises. She should have kept her grievances to herself and moved on, that shows maturity and understanding of your position. This behavior by an intern screams problem employee with no self awareness and a future minefield of problems ahead. I imagine many potential doors just closed on her.

She's going to be one of those employees who types her name into every Excel form or PPT presentation to make sure people knows it's her file.

At my company when the Walmart Team presents something, the first slide will say:

Sales Forecasts
Walmart Team
Jan 22, 2023

If she worked here, her file will say:

Sales Forecasts
Walmart Team
Jan 22, 2023

By Jessica Mao

 

[Sentenza]

“Anyone who worked on a game even for five minutes should be credited. It costs nothing”.

Ok. How do you guys feel about fifteen hours of ending credits, though?

 

[dottme]

“Anyone who worked on a game even for five minutes should be credited. It costs nothing”.

Ok. How do you guys feel about fifteen hours of ending credits, though?

I dont care. However, unskippable credit is a pain. 5 minutes or 15 hours.

 

[gow3isben]

I wish they didn’t entertain this attention seeker

 

[Johnny Concrete]

I wish they didn’t entertain this attention seeker

But she exported music files in Pro Tools!

In fact, one time she made an export mistake where she didn’t include all tracks and only the percussion and vocals were exported during a boss fight and they kept it in the game.

 

[Kilau]

Cool that she got credited, hopefully next patch credits Topher for research assistance.

 

[Imtjnotu]

I've beat the game twice. I deserve to be in the credits for being a day 1 supporter

 

[Kerotan]

Well that's a crock of shit. Minimum contribution? The fuck does that even mean? They contributed to the game, pop their name in the credits, why would this even be an issue?

You mad Brock?

 

[ShadowLag]

the stem i'm proudest of is one where i removed all instruments and left just the percussion and vocals.

So her contribution to the game was... exporting some music out of a Pro Tools project that someone else already created, except she clicked the Solo button on two of the tracks before exporting? She probably should've just said "Hey I was an intern on GoW and didn't get credited like the other intern(s), please add me" and stopped there.

 

[SLB1904]

Coffee dude

 

[Barakov]

Yes, SMS hires interns with the promise of being in the credits.

That's one way to motivate interns.

 

[Orta]

Hopefully the game will receive a future update with her name watermarked into the middle of the screen in 10" flashing rainbow coloured lettering from beginning to end.

Its the only solution.

 

[Drizzlehell]

Lol, I knew she was just an intern.

Way to go SMS, now you've encouraged more snowflakes to stomp their feet on Twitter and feeling entitled to shit they didn't earn.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

So you guys attacking her for wanting to be credited? That's her right.

 

[TonyK]

I can't speak about if she deserves to be in the credits because I don't know exactly her contribution for the game, so I don't want to center the comment in this specific case. But what I don't like is this modern trend of making public these complaints in Twitter to force companies to do what anyone want.