kiphalfton
Member
... So when is twitter going to permanently go down again.
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God of War Ragnarök music production intern Jessica Mao says she wasn't credited for contribution to the game
Kamina
Golden Boy
People are posting sexual harassment and rape allegations on twitter rather than picking it up with the police, so a case like this is just small potatoes of the same idiotic mentality to wash your dirty laundry in public.
Yoda
Member
(Not in the games industry) It'll obviously be on her resume, does anyone actually watch the credits? I highly doubt someone would call her a liar during an interview because her name doesn't show up in the credits (assuming they run a standard background check to confirm her prior employment).
crunchyBiscuits
Member
From the sounds of it, she did ask for it to be added before going to Twitter - unless I'm reading wrong?
In any case, credit her it's one extra line in a long list of credits
In any case, credit her it's one extra line in a long list of credits
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Holy shit, is this true?
You'd think she would be in the credits by how much of a big deal was being made that she was writing for the game.
ResilientBanana
Member
Interns surely think highly of themselves these days. I think the minimum requirements would be being a paid, full time, employee.
MasterCornholio
Member
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TheInfamousKira
Reseterror Resettler
A fair trade. No credit in GoW:R, but eternal credit on the interwebz as the chick who tried to get her #bayonutters moment. Are you happy Mao, Jessica?
Nah, but seriously this is kind of fucked.
Kind of.
There are certainly things in this industry that have been and will be in the future, substantially more fucked than this. But this one is strong enough to register on the charts, at least.
Nah, but seriously this is kind of fucked.
Kind of.
There are certainly things in this industry that have been and will be in the future, substantially more fucked than this. But this one is strong enough to register on the charts, at least.
STARSBarry
Gold Member
You can put it in your CV as uncredited and then give them a contact details of someone to vouch for you like normal.
This is hardly unique to gaming but TV and Movies too, I swear this is not even the first time this has been discussed on GAF. It depends on the studio for the specific rules but it's actually in your contract what is required to be credited, normally its a specific % of time on project or a minimum level of hours. They can make special allowances if they feel it's warranted of course and often do, the fact they haven't is well... they can also wipe you from the credits if you do something to breach a list of T&C to avoid brand damage.
It won't be an informal agreement it will be written down somewhere on a document she will have signed and is normal in the creative industry. It sucks but that's how it is.
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01011001
Banned
it's almost like he's a voice actor... almost...
gaming_again
Member
Lol what is it with people in games airing their dirty laundry all over the internet? So professional…
And lol at all the white knights AGAIN. doesn’t anybody ever learn? The instigators of stuff like this always turn out to be bozos/insane.
And lol at all the white knights AGAIN. doesn’t anybody ever learn? The instigators of stuff like this always turn out to be bozos/insane.
phaedrus
Member
justiceiro
Marlboro: Other M
This is not the first time a Sony studio did something like that, if I'm not mistaken, right?
I understand not getting credit if your work didn't made the cut or had to be redone by someone else, but since her work is literally in the final product, she should have get credited.
I understand not getting credit if your work didn't made the cut or had to be redone by someone else, but since her work is literally in the final product, she should have get credited.
crackajack
Member
Do I need to be credited to make it count? Weird procedure.
Working for years as a design engineer and yet not a single piece leaving our production ever had my name on it.
She worked there, did not get fired, so probably did actually contribute something in those months. Should suffice to put it in a resume.
Credits were okay when they were a bunch of people/ friends creating a game but very much like movie credits they should have stopped making them altogether once they reached more than 10 people involved and require endless, very slow scrolling, sometimes even unskippable texts.
Painters sign their paintings, okay, but does every "artist" with minuscule contribution to a team effort really need that?
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Topher
Gold Member
what asshats are you referring to?
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
Anyone defending a company not putting folks in credits is an idiot
Amish Prince
Member
Exporting stems isn't even composition. It's literally checking a couple boxes on your DAW and clicking export.
Although making derivative assets might be important but sounds like busy intern work. Who would of thought.
I'm gonna be that guy for a second. As a producer this person based on their own linked in didn't do any composition of their own, they did busy work and such that the sound engineer didn't want to bother with. Then again work is still valuable no matter how trivial.
Tldr she shouldn't be kicking up a shit storm over this, but they probably should've just put her in the special thanks portion of game. But she certainly didn't compose anything.
Cyberpunkd
Member
This is what growing up with social media does to you - you cannot even imagine why you would NOT post this on Twitter.
Cyberpunkd
Member
Depends on how they are structured, this could've been as well end-of-uni placement in order to validate her 'internship' part of the curriculum. Also LOL on 'if she was hot shit she would've gotten the job' - you don't work, do you?
Shh
Member
Anyone that had anything to do with the game should be in the credits. I don't care if someone's job was just bringing a box of Kleenex to the game director, they should still be credited for their work.
Also, patching someone's name into the credits is not a monumental task. I'm sure it will take months for the dev team to add a line of text to the credits.
Also, patching someone's name into the credits is not a monumental task. I'm sure it will take months for the dev team to add a line of text to the credits.
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diffusionx
Gold Member
I don’t understand why this is my, or anyone else’s problem. Or why I should spend 8 seconds thinking about who was or was not listed in credits I will never read. This is why social media drives people nuts, it goads them into caring about whatever stupidity rises from the morass.
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BusierDonkey
Member
I'm going to the big bank building downtown and I'm telling everyone in the building I painted the window coverings on the building's face. The company I worked for has their logo on a plaque outside, but I don't see my name anywhere which isn't fair.
Shh
Member
Literally not even remotely the same thing whatsoever in any way, shape, form, dimension, and or being.
TheGodfather07
Member
I can't fathom why people use twitter at all. It's nothing but trash.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Projecting little kitten war angst.
Topher
Gold Member
Bizarre how many people start lashing out when a successful exclusive is released.
TheGodfather07
Member
A certain crowd has been particularly volatile recently...
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
You do get that SSM is one of the most prestigious studios in the US right?
A stint there is going to be a career highlight on almost anyone's resume, as is a credit on a GoW title.
This being the case, landing a job there is really fucking hard. Ergo the applicant needs to be exceptional, as demonstrated by their portfolio or their track-record in the industry
So no, it was never likely that she'd get picked up, but obviously from both the studio and intern's standpoint, discovering a tremendous (if raw) talent is the IDEAL outcome.
On the other hand if they proved not to be up to the desired standard...
For real, if somebody works for 3 months on something, only to have it wholly discarded in the final product, do they actually deserve credit? Don't you think that takes away from other people working in the same role who were on the job longer, and actually contributed to the published work?
Can you not see how ME ME ME all this stuff is?
Listen, for many years credits on games were a courtesy. At a lot of places if you left before the title was shipped, you'd find your name removed and credit for your contribution assigned to someone else. Happened to me on more than one occasion. Dick move, obviously, but we weren't that precious about it because at the end of the day we always had receipts and proofs for what we'd done were we ever to be challenged on it irrespective of what was in the scroller.
Dr. Wilkinson
Member
I feel like she answers her own question in her own tweets. "In order to be credited you have to meet a minimum criteria, and I did not meet that". Like, what else is there to say? How is this even news-worthy? And why would someone risk making the company you work/worked for look bad, when they themselves don't even know if something was actually done wrong or not?
That is wild to me.
What is the standard for getting your name in the credits, does anyone here know? And doesn't each developer/ publisher have different standards? Do interns normally get to be in the credits? Maybe it's a matter of standard practice that interns aren't in the credits. Maybe she signed something when she joined with language that says that. Gosh, wouldn't actual information be nice to know?
That is wild to me.
What is the standard for getting your name in the credits, does anyone here know? And doesn't each developer/ publisher have different standards? Do interns normally get to be in the credits? Maybe it's a matter of standard practice that interns aren't in the credits. Maybe she signed something when she joined with language that says that. Gosh, wouldn't actual information be nice to know?
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Topher
Gold Member
Yeah, some more than others have been emotionally traumatized by this game. But I'm not going to name any names.
On an unrelated note, what happened here, I wonder.....
TheDreadBaron
Member
Some people are confused about game internships, my understanding is that it’s often a several month stint then it’s over and there’s no possibility of getting hired. We don’t know if she got paid at all, and seeing her own name in the credits might be the only tangible thing she gets to take away from the experience. Since it’s completely free for a company to credit every little contribution, there’s no reason not to, except that they probably just forgot. I don’t think going to twitter is a bad move, it seems like it actually got someone’s attention and got something done about it. It’s not like she was throwing a fit, she just wants credit for her work, which is really the minimum anyone deserves.
Cyberpunkd
Member
Here’s the deal about interns - they are slave labour, working at a much lower wage than the regular employees. If SM is not hiring then it will be dumb not to take an intern, make her work for a few month and then let go, no problem whatsoever.
FBeeEye
Banned
Is that her real name?
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
Yeah, some more than others have been emotionally traumatized by this game. But I'm not going to name any names.
On an unrelated note, what happened here, I wonder.....
At least he can spend more time with his sister now
Gamerdude123
Banned
What a travesty. The game should be pulled from the PS store while they fix this mess. Sony should also refund anyone who already beat the game.
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Dr. Wilkinson
Member
I tend to agree, but would also like to know the full context. Is it standard practice that interns are not included in credits? I would like to know, because right or wrong, it's the difference between this being something done wrong to her, or something no different than any other intern who's ever worked on a videogame in the last 35 years, and why would she get the visibility vs all those who have come before her, etc. I'd really like to know. Regardless of whether "interns should be in the credits" or not, her tweet does not have the full context.
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Gamerdude123
Banned
gotta love the double standard though. If this was a male intern literally nobody would care.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
If it's that important to her, just put the intern experience on her resume and if a future employee doubts her, just give details what she did there to convince them and ask for a manager reference to vouch for her.
That kind of process is only done by every other worker on Earth. It cant be that hard.
Having one's name publicly addressed on a product is pretty self centred to begin with. It might be the norm in most media, but if they forgot or if they thought her contribution isn't worth putting in the credits, then that's life.
I dont see at my work the VP of Marketing or Marketing Managers in charge of a product line forcing their credits in the About Us section of the brand's website. Nor have I ever saw R&D guys who are the ones who invented it in a lab asking either. That can be easily uploaded by the webmaster in 30 seconds at zero cost. Nor do I see any low level Marketing Assistants ask for public recognition either even though they are tasked with doing crappy admin and gopher jobs. Who gives a shit.
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TheDreadBaron
Member
Yeah there’s conflicting info, there’s an ad for santa monica interns claiming you get your name in the credits, but she may have been working for a subcontractor/satellite studio, and she says she was told she didn’t meet the minimum criteria. What exactly are those criteria? I would like to know as well.
Dr. Wilkinson
Member
I agree. And don't whine and complain that you're not included in something, despite acknowledging you don't even know for sure if you are supposed to be or not. Do something about it! Change it if you don't like it.
TheDreadBaron
Member
People working on creative media products give a shit, why have credits at all? Why not just say “sony” made it? Most industrys don’t have a credits roll as standard, this one does, so it’s silly that people keep comparing their job to this situation. Most people also get paid to perform their job, in this case the credit is far more valuable than the pay. It’s true her name probably doesn’t need to be in the actual credits in order to benefit from the experience, but I know I would want that credit and get the experience of being up there with the rest of the team and feeling like a real game developer instead of a throwaway intern.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
I dont know. You tell me why media is the only industry in the world that has credits roll. And depending on the tv show, movie or game the list can be super long that goes on for 10 minutes or it can be a short snippet of only the key people.
A game will have an artist make cover art. Every other company has a person or team that designs the packaging art. Not just the artwork, but also within dimensions which are important. Along with that, the company has advertising that goes along with it that is creative too.
How come nobody gives a shit about having their name working on something, unless it's a media employee?
TheDreadBaron
Member
Maybe they should
Edit: I mean honestly it’s sad all the people exclaiming “I never get credit for my work, why should anyone else?” You should, we all should.
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Maybe. If enough employees cry about it. But likely not needed as nobody gives a shit.
A media employee's mindset is if Pepsi or Dominos pizza came out with a brand new product, the first thing you should see is the Senior Marketing Manager and Senior R&D Manager's names plastered on the home page along with the 100s other employees that helped launch it. Or even better, their names are stamped on the pizza box or tin can. And if it wasnt for them it wouldnt be available to buy. Who cares.
Everyone loves the slick design of Apple products. Does anyone know which team of people come out with this snazzy stuff? Who knows. Who cares.
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