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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen

SlimySnake

Member
All made out of rigid nanite Meshes which are unusable for a lot of very common objects in game worlds like Foliage or Hair f.e.
And as previously mentioned, Lumen`s costs rise exponentially the moment you`re not strictly using Nanite. The UE Demos are marketing material trying to show off the strengths of the tech, not the issues, that should never be forgotten.
I said this in a different thread but I think whats going to happen is that devs will simply switch to more urban areas and ditch the foliage heavy open worlds we saw this gen. And TBH, the main reason for this foliage heavy open world trend for because of the VRAM and GPU got a massive upgrade while the CPU did not. We had a distinct lack of urban open world games this gen. Spiderman and Watch Dogs are the only ones i can think of. We didnt even get a GTA game this gen.

Next gen with the CPU finally getting a big upgrade, and nanite offering near photorealistic visuals, I think devs will simply ditch these medieval wilderness settings and opt for more sci-fi games with big populated cities.
 
I don't think Hellblade 2 will get downgraded. It's running on Unreal 5 and backed by MS resources. Also, God of War 2018 was downgraded from its gameplay premiere? I thought that one didn't.
 

Neilg

Member
I think the RT reflections are a mistake in the Matrix demo. They look shit

It's not using proper RT - nanite/lumen comes with a very soft approximation of raytracing in software. you can activate this on a gtx1070.
It doesnt look good, and it smears like mad, but it's very light as it is using the nanite meshes that are being used for GI as the reflected objects.

Proper well optimized raytracing wouldve taken longer to implement - and one of the key things with the matric demo being free was that they had to find the quickest way to do a lot of things. Will take more time for developers to find the sweet spot of when to use different approaches in engine to get the best out of it all.
 
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Lethal01

Member
It's not using proper RT - nanite/lumen comes with a very soft approximation of raytracing in software. you can activate this on a gtx1070.
It doesnt look good, and it smears like mad, but it's very light as it is using the nanite meshes that are being used for GI as the reflected objects.

Proper well optimized raytracing wouldve taken longer to implement - and one of the key things with the matric demo being free was that they had to find the quickest way to do a lot of things. Will take more time for developers to find the sweet spot of when to use different approaches in engine to get the best out of it all.
Sounds like you're talking about the old non hardware accelerated raytracing on the low preset.
The Matrix demo uses "normal" raytracing that is being hardware accelerated.
 

Hunnybun

Member
It's not using proper RT - nanite/lumen comes with a very soft approximation of raytracing in software. you can activate this on a gtx1070.
It doesnt look good, and it smears like mad, but it's very light as it is using the nanite meshes that are being used for GI as the reflected objects.

Proper well optimized raytracing wouldve taken longer to implement - and one of the key things with the matric demo being free was that they had to find the quickest way to do a lot of things. Will take more time for developers to find the sweet spot of when to use different approaches in engine to get the best out of it all.

Oh interesting, I didn't know that.
 

ZywyPL

Gold Member
And so did the Infiltrator demo.

What a coincidence, I rewatched that demo literally yesterday and I thought man, it's 8 years old and we're still not there despite the fact that the whole PS4/XB1 generation passed by that time. The Samaritan demo is 10 years old and we'vw started to get this kind of visuals just recently. So yeah, if UE is any indicator, it's always a gen ahead of the actual hardware - UE3 was widely used on PS3/X360, but it the first half of PS4/XB1 gen where it could spread its wings, then UE4 took over but just in the recent year since PS5/XSX launched it started to show what it's really capable of. So I have little to no doubts what UE5 will as well become the base of many many games in 2nd half of this generation, with again games barely holding 30FPS, and it'll be the PS6/next XB where we will actually start seeing all those amazing looking games, at 60FPS, and much higher res than that 1080p we get today.
 

Lethal01

Member
What a coincidence, I rewatched that demo literally yesterday and I thought man, it's 8 years old and we're still not there despite the fact that the whole PS4/XB1 generation passed by that time. The Samaritan demo is 10 years old and we'vw started to get this kind of visuals just recently. So yeah, if UE is any indicator, it's always a gen ahead of the actual hardware - UE3 was widely used on PS3/X360, but it the first half of PS4/XB1 gen where it could spread its wings, then UE4 took over but just in the recent year since PS5/XSX launched it started to show what it's really capable of. So I have little to no doubts what UE5 will as well become the base of many many games in 2nd half of this generation, with again games barely holding 30FPS, and it'll be the PS6/next XB where we will actually start seeing all those amazing looking games, at 60FPS, and much higher res than that 1080p we get today.

The difference is that those demos were done on PC and weren't even playable. The Matrix demo is a totally different situation and you can expect to see it in games several times faster. It's more along the lines of the elemental demo, which was surpassed by far in a couple years.
 
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VFXVeteran

PlayStation Fanclub
What a coincidence, I rewatched that demo literally yesterday and I thought man, it's 8 years old and we're still not there despite the fact that the whole PS4/XB1 generation passed by that time. The Samaritan demo is 10 years old and we'vw started to get this kind of visuals just recently. So yeah, if UE is any indicator, it's always a gen ahead of the actual hardware - UE3 was widely used on PS3/X360, but it the first half of PS4/XB1 gen where it could spread its wings, then UE4 took over but just in the recent year since PS5/XSX launched it started to show what it's really capable of. So I have little to no doubts what UE5 will as well become the base of many many games in 2nd half of this generation, with again games barely holding 30FPS, and it'll be the PS6/next XB where we will actually start seeing all those amazing looking games, at 60FPS, and much higher res than that 1080p we get today.
Yup. That's why these future console-hardware-expectation threads frustrate me. People dream up totally unrealistic expectations when in reality, developers take a long time to adjust their engine to support these new demo features. I cringe reading "if this demo looks like this only 2yrs into the generation, *imagine* what we will be seeing in 2-3 more years....." We imagine too much.
 

Neilg

Member
Sounds like you're talking about the old non hardware accelerated raytracing on the low preset.
The Matrix demo uses "normal" raytracing that is being hardware accelerated.

I work in UE5 for my day job. it looks exactly like lumens software based raytracing. ('software based' meaning you dont need an RTX card)
 
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SlimySnake

Member
What a coincidence, I rewatched that demo literally yesterday and I thought man, it's 8 years old and we're still not there despite the fact that the whole PS4/XB1 generation passed by that time. The Samaritan demo is 10 years old and we'vw started to get this kind of visuals just recently. So yeah, if UE is any indicator, it's always a gen ahead of the actual hardware - UE3 was widely used on PS3/X360, but it the first half of PS4/XB1 gen where it could spread its wings, then UE4 took over but just in the recent year since PS5/XSX launched it started to show what it's really capable of. So I have little to no doubts what UE5 will as well become the base of many many games in 2nd half of this generation, with again games barely holding 30FPS, and it'll be the PS6/next XB where we will actually start seeing all those amazing looking games, at 60FPS, and much higher res than that 1080p we get today.
The infiltrator demo was not running on a PS4. In fact, the Samaritan demo was running on THREE GTX 580s. A GPU that was way better than the HD 7850 that went into the PS4.

They eventually managed to get it running on a single GTX 680, but even that is a 3.3 tflops GPU.

The one demo that did run on the PS4 was the medieval demo and that demo has easily been topped.

I think people dont realize that the UE5 Matrix demo not only runs on the PS5 and XSX, but also is a fully PLAYABLE open world with AI logic. They arent even fully maxing out the CPU because they want devs to have CPU resources left for game logic. I just watched the Samaritan demo and i basically takes place in a one city block. There is literally nothing else to render. Matrix is rendering the entire city AND is making it completely playable. Hell, you can even fly around in it. Why wont games that are linear like say TLOU or Hellblade or Quantic Dream style games like Detroit look better than an open world game?

In fact, Detroit comes very close to looking as good as the Samaritan demo. At least when it comes to character models. And thats the most fair comparison to the Samaritan demo because its also a linear game that only renders tiny levels and spends its entire rendering budget on making them look incredible just like the Samaritan demo.









 
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The foliage not reacting to her movements is very bad for a supposed next generation game. Other than that it's great but certainly not next generation, I'd wager next year we will see games significantly better than this for both consoles.
In the first Gif, just after she takedown the first guard, you can see the foliage reacting at the mouvement of her leg at 6:00.
 

SlimySnake

Member
I work in UE5 for my day job. it looks exactly like lumens software based raytracing. ('software based' meaning you dont need an RTX card)
So Epic said that the resolution target for Software Lumens is 1440p 30 fps (in the valley of the ancient demo at least) for the XSX and PS5 while the target for Hardware Accelerated Lumens is 1080p 30 fps. So if it looks identical then why would anyone pick hardware accelerated over the much higher resolution software based solution?
 

SlimySnake

Member
I don't think Hellblade 2 will get downgraded. It's running on Unreal 5 and backed by MS resources. Also, God of War 2018 was downgraded from its gameplay premiere? I thought that one didn't.
GOW had some lighting downgrades. Character model looks better though.

Hellblade 2 already got downgrade. Phil went up there and told everyone it was in engine footage, well turns out it was just a target render. As they continue to make the game, they will run into areas that are far more expensive to render than a cave and a simple beach area. They will then have to downgrade the lighting. Thats exactly what happened with Days Gone, TLOU 2 and Ghost of Tsushima. It might be minor, but it will be there. If it happened to the best looking games last gen, it will happen to Hellblade 2.
 

Neilg

Member
So Epic said that the resolution target for Software Lumens is 1440p 30 fps (in the valley of the ancient demo at least) for the XSX and PS5 while the target for Hardware Accelerated Lumens is 1080p 30 fps. So if it looks identical then why would anyone pick hardware accelerated over the much higher resolution software based solution?

I dont know what you mean by looks identical. Is the matrix demo using full hardware raytracing?

I said it looks like it's using the software version, because with that I have seen the same degree of smearing and delay in cleaning it up. Hardware based seems to clean up quicker. They dont look identical.
 
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Sosokrates

Founder of western console warring.
GOW had some lighting downgrades. Character model looks better though.

Hellblade 2 already got downgrade. Phil went up there and told everyone it was in engine footage, well turns out it was just a target render. As they continue to make the game, they will run into areas that are far more expensive to render than a cave and a simple beach area. They will then have to downgrade the lighting. Thats exactly what happened with Days Gone, TLOU 2 and Ghost of Tsushima. It might be minor, but it will be there. If it happened to the best looking games last gen, it will happen to Hellblade 2.

In engine footage is different to a game trailer.
It was essentially a tech demo.
Im glad we got a tech demo, I miss tech demos when a new gen starts.
I suppose we got the sorcerer demo at the PS4 launch, which sony said was PS4 graphics.
 

UnNamed

18+ Member
Matrix is a demo. It does look awesome though. But Deep Down looked awesome too back then. And so did the Infiltrator demo.
Matrix have code running in background, it's basically a game itself. You "can" make that game. Not a complex game, of course.

Deep Down and Infiltrator are just tech demos like anyone else, no code running under them. When they have shown some footage of DD some years ago, it wasn't THAT GOOD.
 

Lethal01

Member
I work in UE5 for my day job. it looks exactly like lumens software based raytracing. ('software based' meaning you dont need an RTX card)

It really doesn't, Quality is totally different and Matrix actually includes skinned meshes.

So Epic said that the resolution target for Software Lumens is 1440p 30 fps (in the valley of the ancient demo at least) for the XSX and PS5 while the target for Hardware Accelerated Lumens is 1080p 30 fps. So if it looks identical then why would anyone pick hardware accelerated over the much higher resolution software based solution?

They also said they've now managed to make hardware accelerated route faster than the software route.
 

VFXVeteran

PlayStation Fanclub
The infiltrator demo was not running on a PS4. In fact, the Samaritan demo was running on THREE GTX 580s. A GPU that was way better than the HD 7850 that went into the PS4.

They eventually managed to get it running on a single GTX 680, but even that is a 3.3 tflops GPU.

The one demo that did run on the PS4 was the medieval demo and that demo has easily been topped.

I think people dont realize that the UE5 Matrix demo not only runs on the PS5 and XSX, but also is a fully PLAYABLE open world with AI logic. They arent even fully maxing out the CPU because they want devs to have CPU resources left for game logic. I just watched the Samaritan demo and i basically takes place in a one city block. There is literally nothing else to render. Matrix is rendering the entire city AND is making it completely playable. Hell, you can even fly around in it. Why wont games that are linear like say TLOU or Hellblade or Quantic Dream style games like Detroit look better than an open world game?

In fact, Detroit comes very close to looking as good as the Samaritan demo. At least when it comes to character models. And thats the most fair comparison to the Samaritan demo because its also a linear game that only renders tiny levels and spends its entire rendering budget on making them look incredible just like the Samaritan demo.









While the UE5 Matrix demo was running on the consoles, the demo was missing several key additions that go into the game loop, like character UI and ray-cast collision detection, AI for NPCs, and several other factors that go into a full game. On top of that the render is at a low unacceptable FPS and resolution for a full game. And I don't want to get into "optimization" that many people here try to claim there is a lot of room for. These consoles just don't have enough bandwidth this generation so I would again, leave expectations on the low side instead of on the high side given what we've seen already with games released so far.
 
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kyliethicc

Member
While the UE5 Matrix demo was running on the consoles, the demo was missing several key additions that go into the game loop, like character UI and ray-cast collision detection, AI for NPCs, and several other factors that go into a full game. On top of that the render is at a low unacceptable FPS and resolution for a full game. And I don't want to get into "optimization" that many people here try to claim there is a lot of room for. These consoles just don't have enough bandwidth this generation so I would again, leave expectations on the low side instead of on the high side given what we've seen already with games released so far.
Terrible fur in the Matrix demo too.
 

SlimySnake

Member
While the UE5 Matrix demo was running on the consoles, the demo was missing several key additions that go into the game loop, like character UI and ray-cast collision detection, AI for NPCs, and several other factors that go into a full game. On top of that the render is at a low unacceptable FPS and resolution for a full game. And I don't want to get into "optimization" that many people here try to claim there is a lot of room for. These consoles just don't have enough bandwidth this generation so I would again, leave expectations on the low side instead of on the high side given what we've seen already with games released so far.
I have posted this several times but Epic specifically stated that they didnt max out the CPU to ensure devs had enough CPU resources to implement game logic. They wanted this to be a realistic rendering target. Not some BS target render like the Samaritan demo that took 3 high end GPUs to render.
 

SlimySnake

Member
I dont know what you mean by looks identical. Is the matrix demo using full hardware raytracing?

I said it looks like it's using the software version, because with that I have seen the same degree of smearing and delay in cleaning it up. Hardware based seems to clean up quicker. They dont look identical.
They are using the hardware accelerated Lumens. It's been confirmed by Epic themselves.

In addition to delivering the open world hinted at by prior Unreal Engine 5 demos, the Lumen real-time global illumination system is also significantly improved. Previously using an impressive, if limited software implementation, Epic has moved the system on a hardware-accelerated ray tracing solution - providing performance and extra fidelity in indirect and diffuse lighting. Hardware RT also opens the doors to realistic reflections and area light shadows. Just like a movie's Director of Photography would place a light card next to an actor for improved lighting in a scene, Epic does this with its characters in The Matrix Awakens. "For example, when Trinity is in the car, and when you know the light doesn't bounce because the seats are a bit too dark, we just add a white card [off-screen]. Lumen analyses the white card and you see that light bouncing back," explains Jerome Platteux.
 

Azurro

Member
While the UE5 Matrix demo was running on the consoles, the demo was missing several key additions that go into the game loop, like character UI and ray-cast collision detection, AI for NPCs, and several other factors that go into a full game. On top of that the render is at a low unacceptable FPS and resolution for a full game. And I don't want to get into "optimization" that many people here try to claim there is a lot of room for. These consoles just don't have enough bandwidth this generation so I would again, leave expectations on the low side instead of on the high side given what we've seen already with games released so far.

It's ok Mr veteran clown, the next few games will draw a whole bunch of ultra detailed furry faces that you can't see and you'll find them very impressive. ;)
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
I said this in a different thread but I think whats going to happen is that devs will simply switch to more urban areas and ditch the foliage heavy open worlds we saw this gen. And TBH, the main reason for this foliage heavy open world trend for because of the VRAM and GPU got a massive upgrade while the CPU did not. We had a distinct lack of urban open world games this gen. Spiderman and Watch Dogs are the only ones i can think of. We didnt even get a GTA game this gen.

Next gen with the CPU finally getting a big upgrade, and nanite offering near photorealistic visuals, I think devs will simply ditch these medieval wilderness settings and opt for more sci-fi games with big populated cities.
How is this a good thing??

So they ditch out any fantasy or just outdoor open world games because the engine is no good for them??!


This is why i told you people that taking the matrix tech demo as an example for future open worlds was a big mistake in terms of expectations.

On the other hand i don't think that hellblade 2 is gonna be downgraded IF the scope remain super duper small like in the first one.
 
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Neilg

Member
They are using the hardware accelerated Lumens. It's been confirmed by Epic themselves.

Fair enough! Sorry for being kind of stubborn with that, i was totally convinced. there's a lot more smearing in the road reflections while wandering around the open world than i'd expect to see with hardware.
I wonder if it's possible to control that per-shader and they dialed it back in the road to get better performance.
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
I don't think Hellblade 2 will get downgraded. It's running on Unreal 5 and backed by MS resources. Also, God of War 2018 was downgraded from its gameplay premiere? I thought that one didn't.
Sony games had both downgrades and upgrades for any major game, people who only talk about downgrade or upgrade have short memory.

Horizon had multiple tallnecks on screen at the same time, other than that, the game was upgraded in everything compared to the first demo, days gone had more realistic horde ia in the reveal, but the rest of the graphic was updated, spiderman didn't had the super fluid in and out of building bit of gamepay but was improved in other areas, unchy4 was worse than the scene with nate waking up on the sand but it was better than the first real gameplay in the jungle, etc.

The only games that only had downgrades in every aspect and no visible upgrades were tlou 2 and tsushima, the only upgrade in tsushima was jin's face\model, everything else was a bit worse.
 
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SlimySnake

Member
Looks like DF stealth edited their article to update the Series S pixel counts int he Matrix Awakens Demo. They had said 720p in the original video with Alex sheepishly saying lower. Well, the updated article says it is SIGNIFICANTLY BELOW 533p.

At the entry level, it's incredible to see Xbox Series S deliver this at all but it does so fairly effectively, albeit with some very chunky artefacts. Here, the reconstruction target is 1080p, but 1555x648 looks to be the max native rendering resolution in letterboxed content with some pixel counts significantly below 533p too.

They go on to say that TSR makes it look better than 533p, but in the video they said it had macro blocking artifacts everywhere. Richard had even made a joke about VCDs vs Blurays. I remember modding my PS1 to play VCDs and I know exactly what hes talking about. They all had a very pixelated look. I swear most VHSs looked better than my Matrix VCD.

I also dont know how a pixel counting site can just say pixel counts are significantly below 533p. They are in the business of counting pixel numbers, you cant just give a rough estimate. Imagine going on dates and telling women you make significantly less than a billion dollars. P.S my dick is significantly below 20 inches. This the same guy who went out of his way to compare the worst case scenarios in every game from Hitman to Watch Dogs and AC pixel counting it like his life depended on it. He didnt say pixel counts in AC and Watch Dogs were significantly below native 4k. He simply said the minimum resolution was 1440p at the worst case scenarios he found.

I am just going to say I told you so. I remember saying this back when Series S was first announced. That it will be fine when cross gen games are trying to do native 4k 60 fps on the series S but the moment you go to 1440p 30 fps or 1080p 30 fps on the XSX, the smaller console will have to go down to 560p. Even I was wrong about how it actually goes lower than that with some other graphical downgrades.
 

Hunnybun

Member
How is this a good thing??

So they ditch out any fantasy or just outdoor open world games because the engine is no good for them??!


This is why i told you people that taking the matrix tech demo as an example for future open worlds was a big mistake in terms of expectations.

On the other hand i don't think that hellblade 2 is gonna be downgraded IF the scope remain super duper small like in the first one.

Yeah this is why I'm still kind of on the fence with Unreal 5.

Seems like it can do certain environments in spectacularly high fidelity but at a crap frame rate and relatively low resolutions.

I'm not sure what to make of that, honestly. I don't want to go back to mandatory 30fps. 1440p isn't a bad resolution, but I'm less convinced about 1080p.

Do we want games all designed around city or desert/mountain environments? If not, do we want them with diverse environments that vary wildly in quality?

And that's before you even consider the question of whether hugely increased geometric complexity is even anything like a priority this gen. Ratchet, e.g., already looks extremely dense. Tbh I'd even say cross gen stuff like Forza and HFW look much much more complex than last gen. I think we're definitely into diminishing returns territory here.

It may turn out to be worth all the hype, but I'm unconvinced so far.
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
The infiltrator demo was not running on a PS4. In fact, the Samaritan demo was running on THREE GTX 580s. A GPU that was way better than the HD 7850 that went into the PS4.

They eventually managed to get it running on a single GTX 680, but even that is a 3.3 tflops GPU.

The one demo that did run on the PS4 was the medieval demo and that demo has easily been topped.

I think people dont realize that the UE5 Matrix demo not only runs on the PS5 and XSX, but also is a fully PLAYABLE open world with AI logic. They arent even fully maxing out the CPU because they want devs to have CPU resources left for game logic. I just watched the Samaritan demo and i basically takes place in a one city block. There is literally nothing else to render. Matrix is rendering the entire city AND is making it completely playable. Hell, you can even fly around in it. Why wont games that are linear like say TLOU or Hellblade or Quantic Dream style games like Detroit look better than an open world game?

In fact, Detroit comes very close to looking as good as the Samaritan demo. At least when it comes to character models. And thats the most fair comparison to the Samaritan demo because its also a linear game that only renders tiny levels and spends its entire rendering budget on making them look incredible just like the Samaritan demo.









Lol the models look much better, the first pic looks like a ue3 character...even joel on ps3 looks more like a real person...
 
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SlimySnake

Member
How is this a good thing??

So they ditch out any fantasy or just outdoor open world games because the engine is no good for them??!


This is why i told you people that taking the matrix tech demo as an example for future open worlds was a big mistake in terms of expectations.

On the other hand i don't think that hellblade 2 is gonna be downgraded IF the scope remain super duper small like in the first one.
I mean most devs ditched Sci Fi and urban settings this gen so maybe its time to go back, no? Witcher 3, Horizon, Zelda, Ghost, Far Cry, Mass Effect, Anthem, RDR2, GOW, TLOU 2, Halo Infinite, Death Stranding, Days Gone, Uncharted, Ass Creed, Fallout, I feel like every dev decided to go for barren open worlds last gen. I am done tbh, and I still have this year to go through. Horizon, Elder Rings, GOW Ragnorak. Soon we will be begging for Cyberpunk DLC lol

Also, Nanite foliage might be a thing in the future. Epic said its a work in progress. It's just not there yet, doesnt mean it will never be there.

One of the key reasons that The Matrix Awakens can handle such a dense city is that detail supplied by the Nanite system is as close to 'free' as you're going to get. One of the concerns about the system is that it may be limited to static geometry but the inclusion of traffic shows it is more dynamic. However, deformable meshes are still on the 'to do' list, meaning that the solution for crash damage on vehicles is somewhat sub-optimal and can cause performance dips - essentially, affected vehicles become standard rasterised objects. "This is a result of the current limitations of Nanite, which only works on rigid objects. So this was a solution, which is very clever. The future is going to be Nanite, obviously, that's where we are heading [but] at this time slice, we're not there yet," says Michal Valient.

Also Avatar is using ray traced foliage in Ubisoft's Snowdrop engine. Ray tracing allows them to have light go through leaves and illuminate the area under the trees and even under ground foliage. So it's not like everyone has to use Nanite.
Stefanov gives some examples of what that can mean to the game: "In terms of a new generation of consoles, the improved [hardware] just gives us so much opportunity to make sure that the game's as immersive as possible. So a couple of examples, we have a completely new lighting system that is based on ray tracing, and I think it is a dramatic step up in quality that makes you feel like it's a real place. One tiny example is that it can actually handle the translucency of the leaves [...] so it can figure out how much of the light is reflected through the leaves, how tinted it is with the colors and everything else. You get lovely reflections and sights for the water, even down to the volumetric clouds up in the sky – they actually receive the correct lighting as well."

Id be happy with this level of graphical fidelity next gen.

 

GymWolf

Gold Member
I mean most devs ditched Sci Fi and urban settings this gen so maybe its time to go back, no? Witcher 3, Horizon, Zelda, Ghost, Far Cry, Mass Effect, Anthem, RDR2, GOW, TLOU 2, Halo Infinite, Death Stranding, Days Gone, Uncharted, Ass Creed, Fallout, I feel like every dev decided to go for barren open worlds last gen. I am done tbh, and I still have this year to go through. Horizon, Elder Rings, GOW Ragnorak. Soon we will be begging for Cyberpunk DLC lol

Also, Nanite foliage might be a thing in the future. Epic said its a work in progress. It's just not there yet, doesnt mean it will never be there.



Also Avatar is using ray traced foliage in Ubisoft's Snowdrop engine. Ray tracing allows them to have light go through leaves and illuminate the area under the trees and even under ground foliage. So it's not like everyone has to use Nanite.


Id be happy with this level of graphical fidelity next gen.

What about having all the locations without ditching nothing?!

Tbh avatar doesn't look much better than horizon 2...i expect more during the entire gen from the usual suspects, if ubisoft can do that graphic for an open world, sony teams can do even better.

That gif you posted doesn't look much better than this



P.s. like the other guy said, devs didn't really ditched city based open world games in the past gen, outdoors centric open world seems more common because you have the usual far cry\ac games that are always outdoorsy and ubisoft make a lot of them during a gen.
 
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SlimySnake

Member
Lol the models look much better, the first pic looks like a ue3 character...
Speaking of UE3, I think Batman comes very close to that Smaritan demo despite being an Open World game. Had it been a linear closed off game like the Samaritan demo, it wouldve looked fairly similar.



What about having all the locations without ditching nothing?!

Tbh avatar doesn't look much better than horizon 2...i expect more during the entire gen from the usual suspects, if ubisoft can do that graphic for an open world, sony teams can do even better.

That gif you posted doesn't look much better than this



P.s. like the other guy said, devs didn't really ditched city based open world games in the past gen, outdoors centric open world seems more common because you have the usual far cry\ac games that are always outdoorsy and ubisoft make a lot of them during a gen.
Lol didnt we talk about that trailer yesterday. That gif is from the reveal trailer, and nothing shown since looks as good as that. Probably pre-rendered.

But even then I think the avatar gif looks far more photorealistic than Horizon. They are also going to have fast traversal (note: NOT fast travel) that they couldnt do on last gen.

Flying​

Much of Frontiers of Pandora's reveal trailer takes place with Na'vi heroes riding their Banshee companions. As it turns out, this isn't just for show – the game will let you take to the skies and travel across them at high speed, and only new hardware allowed the team to couple that mechanic with the detailed world it wanted to present.

"[New consoles allowed] us to have much better object detail up close to you," explains Stefanove, "but also when you're flying high up in the air – to have a lovely vista and far-distance rendering, where we can even use the ray tracing to do shadows super far away, you know, three or four kilometers away from you."

It's not just that the world needs to look good as you lazily soar over it – it's that it needs to stay looking good while you travel very, very quickly, as Jansén explains: "You're flying at enormous high speeds on a Banshee over this very, very detailed landscape. It doesn't matter how much we can render, unless we can stream it in as fast when we're moving very fast from one place to another. So just this shift to these newer hard drives, it can't be underestimated because, and it really has a lot of implications."
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
Speaking of UE3, I think Batman comes very close to that Smaritan demo despite being an Open World game. Had it been a linear closed off game like the Samaritan demo, it wouldve looked fairly similar.




Lol didnt we talk about that trailer yesterday. That gif is from the reveal trailer, and nothing shown since looks as good as that. Probably pre-rendered.

But even then I think the avatar gif looks far more photorealistic than Horizon. They are also going to have fast traversal (note: NOT fast travel) that they couldnt do on last gen.
Until the game is out, i don't wanna judge horizon downgrade, but to me it was never incredible or super impressive to begin with, not even the reveal except the crab scene or the bubbly effect when she enter into the water, it looked great but not nextgen great.

Like i said, if ubisoft can do that you don't need to have a single doubt that sony\rockstar\M studios are gonna do better when nextgen is gonna begin for real.

P.s. maybe i wasn't clear enough, i think that the first pic you posted looks way worse than the other.
 
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VFXVeteran

PlayStation Fanclub
I have posted this several times but Epic specifically stated that they didnt max out the CPU to ensure devs had enough CPU resources to implement game logic. They wanted this to be a realistic rendering target. Not some BS target render like the Samaritan demo that took 3 high end GPUs to render.
CPU or GPU? Today's scene performance is weighted more on the GPU side of things. The low resolution with everything (i.e. ray calls, primitive setup, texture sizes, main framebuffer) is a key indicator of GPU limitation.
 

VFXVeteran

PlayStation Fanclub
It's ok Mr veteran clown, the next few games will draw a whole bunch of ultra detailed furry faces that you can't see and you'll find them very impressive. ;)
So let me get this straight - you come out of a horrible thread where @wherewolfgrandma and @bernd get banned for coming in and making snide remarks but you have no fear of getting banned by Mod of War Mod of War , Bill O'Rights Bill O'Rights or DGrayson DGrayson because it's ME that you are trolling?
 

bargeparty

Member
The infiltrator demo was not running on a PS4. In fact, the Samaritan demo was running on THREE GTX 580s. A GPU that was way better than the HD 7850 that went into the PS4.

They eventually managed to get it running on a single GTX 680, but even that is a 3.3 tflops GPU.

The one demo that did run on the PS4 was the medieval demo and that demo has easily been topped.

I think people dont realize that the UE5 Matrix demo not only runs on the PS5 and XSX, but also is a fully PLAYABLE open world with AI logic. They arent even fully maxing out the CPU because they want devs to have CPU resources left for game logic. I just watched the Samaritan demo and i basically takes place in a one city block. There is literally nothing else to render. Matrix is rendering the entire city AND is making it completely playable. Hell, you can even fly around in it. Why wont games that are linear like say TLOU or Hellblade or Quantic Dream style games like Detroit look better than an open world game?

In fact, Detroit comes very close to looking as good as the Samaritan demo. At least when it comes to character models. And thats the most fair comparison to the Samaritan demo because its also a linear game that only renders tiny levels and spends its entire rendering budget on making them look incredible just like the Samaritan demo.










I feel like people just look at the visual art style and claim we've not met or exceeded those old demos. Anyone have an actual technical explanation? Because I don't see anything particular impressive about them, especially the very old Samaritan demo.
 
I feel like people just look at the visual art style and claim we've not met or exceeded those old demos. Anyone have an actual technical explanation? Because I don't see anything particular impressive about them, especially the very old Samaritan demo.
Same. I just watched the original demo and we've definitely surpassed it easily.
 

VFXVeteran

PlayStation Fanclub
I feel like people just look at the visual art style and claim we've not met or exceeded those old demos. Anyone have an actual technical explanation? Because I don't see anything particular impressive about them, especially the very old Samaritan demo.
I could go into it but I'm exhausted with the bashing when my analysis doesn't align with the top 1% privileged gamers here on these boards. Oh well..
 
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Arioco

Member
The Samaritan demo required 2.5 Tflops of computational performance for 1080p and 30 fps according to Epic.




Despite the fact that no last gen console met those requirement until the mid-gen refresh (Xbox One was particularly far from it) I think we could see thing that looked actually better than the demo running in real time on our consoles.


I don't see how you can come on here and throw in a troll remark and not get banned like the other guys in that other thread.. the inconsistency here is ridiculous.

Because it's obviously just a joke, dude, no need to get triggered. 🤷‍♂️

I mean, the thanks to you the fur has become a meme on GAF, I don't think we'll be seeing the end of it anytime soon, so we better get used to it, we'll be hearing about fur for a loooong time. 🙄
 

VFXVeteran

PlayStation Fanclub
Because it's obviously just a joke, dude, no need to get triggered. 🤷‍♂️

I can go over every single ban last year where someone made a "joke" about a console or person and got banned if you like, but I think you understand what I'm saying. Just recently someone trolled Alex, yet again, and got banned for it. Jokes have become toxic on these boards.

I mean, the thanks to you the fur has become a meme on GAF, I don't think we'll be seeing the end of it anytime soon, so we better get used to it, we'll be hearing about fur for a loooong time. 🙄
What's idiotic is that those guys took a hyperbolic comment and removed it to declare I said there is no fur at all. It's not even an honest meme. Tells there's a lot of kids on these boards that will do anything to troll me.
 

Arioco

Member
I can go over every single ban last year where someone made a "joke" about a console or person and got banned if you like, but I think you understand what I'm saying. Just recently someone trolled Alex, yet again, and got banned for it. Jokes have become toxic on these boards.


What's idiotic is that those guys took a hyperbolic comment and removed it to declare I said there is no fur at all. It's not even an honest meme. Tells there's a lot of kids on these boards that will do anything to troll me.


If I'm honest I don't think anyone is taking seriously all these jokes about fur, anyone but maybe you. This is GAF, you know, people like to make jokes and laugh at literally anything. Which is kind of a good think, if you ask me.

I'd find it really sad if someone got banned over a joke, TBH. A stupid joke? Maybe, but it'd be sad anyway.

I think we should relax a bit. Things are getting a bit intense lately on GAF.
 
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