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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen

Lethal01

Member
They have the same face i had when i discovered that it wasn't an actual remake but a turd kh rendition.

Knowing you hate it makes me further enjoy them injecting the greatness that is kingdom Hearts and its combat system .
Remake is already far better than the original ever was, now Rebirth is gonna make it just a sad memory.

FINAL-FANTASY-VII-REBIRTH-DEMO_20230914131522.webm_snapshot_24.17_2023.09.20_20.44.46-scaled.jpg


Shoot it on my face Nomura, I'm ready
 
Elden Ring graphically is such an underwhelming game. Like how is this getting so much hype? That trailer was atrocious from visual standpoint. Bad textures, choppy(unfinished) animations, shitty particle effects, unimpressive cinematography.
Technically the visuals aren’t great - artistically they might be the best ever though
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Took some comparison shots. Im not seeing these built from ground up on PS5 improvements on character models. Everything else has been improved yes. DF says the flashback sequence with Sephiroth is still trash in the final game with bad lighting and extremely low poly rocks so maybe that level was given to interns or the Forspoken team.

FF7 Remake PS5 performance mode
FF7 Rebirth PS5 Quality mode

GG6qx8CW0AApNBj

GG6qSNRXwAA2tev


GG6qcqRXAAAMe8g

GG6qo34WIAAK3ok


I think the camera is pulled too far back during gameplay but even when i zoom in, it doesnt look much better than the last game.
 

Hunnybun

Member
Can someone who's not a complete simpleton about this stuff please explain why 1080p on a 4k screen doesn't just perfectly upscale with 4 pixels for every 1 pixel in the original image?

I'm presuming it's more complicated, because otherwise why not just target performance modes at that exact resolution - at least you'd have a sharp image even if you lose detail close to the screen. I mean there's nothing actually wrong with a native 1080p image. Thanks.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
DF confirms that the issues in the flashback demo do not occur in the main game which has very high level of detail in every object and great lighting.

However, there are still some issues like poor shadows coverage which makes the game look flat on rare occasions. Thats it. Fucking shadows. You know what game had great shadows? FF16. You know why? Because they didnt waste the GPU on rendering 8.2 million native 4k pixels. This is so silly. FF16 drops from 1440p down to 1080p at times using fucking FSR1 no less and it looks stunning because of those fucking shadows.

This game has so much better art direction and some gorgeous environments but let down by shadows of all things. Come on.

j7xSSNF.jpg
VOlyjFu.jpg


Other than that, the game looks stunning. The level of detail in cities is incredible. It's so dense and brimming with detail. Complete opposite of that bizarre town in the flashback demo.
 

GymWolf

Member
DF confirms that the issues in the flashback demo do not occur in the main game which has very high level of detail in every object and great lighting.

However, there are still some issues like poor shadows coverage which makes the game look flat on rare occasions. Thats it. Fucking shadows. You know what game had great shadows? FF16. You know why? Because they didnt waste the GPU on rendering 8.2 million native 4k pixels. This is so silly. FF16 drops from 1440p down to 1080p at times using fucking FSR1 no less and it looks stunning because of those fucking shadows.

This game has so much better art direction and some gorgeous environments but let down by shadows of all things. Come on.

j7xSSNF.jpg
VOlyjFu.jpg


Other than that, the game looks stunning. The level of detail in cities is incredible. It's so dense and brimming with detail. Complete opposite of that bizarre town in the flashback demo.
So the game look completely different from that piece of shit pics were shadows are the last problem?
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Did df offered you a job or what?

Imagine writing the bolded part and also posting that pic...
Basing it on the footage included in the video. Look at the distant buildings and how detailed they look without any fog or blurring. the number of NPCs is also very impressive. The open world area looks gorgeous too.

VTMwd8G.gif


UBuCzp7.gif

KmTgDMu.gif
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
So the game look completely different from that piece of shit pics were shadows are the last problem?
yes. the low res assets are gone. those ps3 era low polygon rocks are now replaced by really high quality rocks. they might still be ps4 era but its impressive when you realize that there are so many of them and the ground level rock detail is very high as well.

the character models are better as well. the lighting is vastly superior and the cities have way more detail than that town which felt like a ps3.5 town at best due to flat lighting, low poly models and just terrible art direction.
 

GymWolf

Member
Basing it on the footage included in the video. Look at the distant buildings and how detailed they look without any fog or blurring. the number of NPCs is also very impressive. The open world area looks gorgeous too.

VTMwd8G.gif


UBuCzp7.gif

KmTgDMu.gif
I edited the post because i thought your pics were the final game.

It looks decent, still worse than crossgen horizon by a mile tho.
 
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Represent.

Represent(ative) of bad opinions
Would give it a shot but its way too waifu anime for me. Would be a waste of my $100 bucks.

This year is trash for games. Meanwhile, there are like 15 banger Hollywood movies I am hella pumped to see
 
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rofif

Banned
Basing it on the footage included in the video. Look at the distant buildings and how detailed they look without any fog or blurring. the number of NPCs is also very impressive. The open world area looks gorgeous too.

VTMwd8G.gif


UBuCzp7.gif

KmTgDMu.gif
Looks great. IMO next (this) gen detail and complexity.
Again, just like with ff16, the soft lighting and shadowing on tifa's bra is immaculate. Looks like a render. Look at the straps and the fabric. That's ff16 quality at the very least:

nEGHTOD.jpg

Compared to original it's night and day
rVJ6V13.jpeg

And my fav 7 remake screenshot (also ps5)
bUwofVD.jpeg


and compared to some ff16 amazing showcase of soft cgi-like light/shadow
HvC4xTk.jpeg

jcu1395.jpeg

wd9irZ1.jpeg

vWtyGhQ.jpeg
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
I edited the post because i thought your pics were the final game.

It looks decent, still worse than crossgen horizon by a mile tho.
They are from the final game lol. The game does look like that at its worst due to poor AO and shadow coverage.

Lets hope the PC release has better shadows options. But i doubt they will add RT shadows to this game. Maybe if Sony pays them to add RT for the PS5 pro version.
 
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GymWolf

Member
They are from the final game lol. The game does look like that at its worst due to poor AO and shadow coverage.

Lets hope the PC release has better shadows options. But i doubt they will add RT shadows to this game. Maybe if Sony pays them to add RT for the PS5 pro version.
Oh ok, now that i know that i can pretend to see the incredibly detailed city.

Incredible and nextgen(tm)
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
I stopped having faith in japanese devs when it comes to graphic many years ago, and that also include the big like capcom and square.

Ronin look like absolute shit and the disgusting remilk part 2 is not gonna fall off too far from the shit tree aswell.

Koreans are our new hope.
Yeah, I still remember the start of the PS3 era when everyone was struggling with the cell while Xbox focused western developers were having a grand old time. I didnt pay much attention to it because kojima still produced a stunner, and FF13 looked fairly comparable to other early gen titles, but they were soon left in the dust by developers like Naughty Dog, Guerrilla Games, SSM, Epic, Rockstar, and even mid tier western devs at the time like Rocksteady, Insomniac, Crystal Dyanmics, 343i and Sucker Punch who all produced some stunners towards the end of the PS3 cycle and graduated to A tier in a span of a generation.

Whereas the japanese industry just felt stagnated in general. Deep Down gave me hope and then took it away. Since then only the RE team and Kojima have produced some excellent looking games. Platinum just produced probably the worst looking game ive ever played. Nitnendo studios are stuck making games on 15 watt hardware. And other previously top end devs like Capcom and Square Enix have simply given up on pushing graphics. Now we have them a generation behind the big A tier studios like GG, but also behind B tier studios like Massive, Bethesda and Remedy who were able to take that next big leap and join the big boys while Japanese studios are still acting like a mom and pop shop owner.

maybe all the graphics talent is over in the west and Japan is just lagging.

At least their gameplay designers are still exceptional and better than the trash these A tier western devs put out. I put in 150 hours into Zelda and couldnt even beat Avatar. I beat RE4 8 times in a month, and took 4 months to beat Alan Wake once. Maybe they should contract out their graphics programming to western devs. Their artists are still able to push exceptional visual design.
 
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ckstine

Member
Yeah, I still remember the start of the PS3 era when everyone was struggling with the cell while Xbox focused western developers were having a grand old time. I didnt pay much attention to it because kojima still produced a stunner, and FF13 looked fairly comparable to other early gen titles, but they were soon left in the dust by developers like Naughty Dog, Guerrilla Games, SSM, Epic, Rockstar, and even mid tier western devs at the time like Rocksteady, Insomniac, Crystal Dyanmics, 343i and Sucker Punch who all produced some stunners towards the end of the PS3 cycle and graduated to A tier in a span of a generation.

Whereas the japanese industry just felt stagnated in general. Deep Down gave me hope and then took it away. Since then only the RE team and Kojima have produced some excellent looking games. Platinum just produced probably the worst looking game ive ever played. Nitnendo studios are stuck making games on 15 watt hardware. And other previously top end devs like Capcom and Square Enix have simply given up on pushing graphics. Now we have them a generation behind the big A tier studios like GG, but also behind B tier studios like Massive, Bethesda and Remedy who were able to take that next big leap and join the big boys while Japanese studios are still acting like a mom and pop shop owner.

maybe all the graphics talent is over in the west and Japan is just lagging.

At least their gameplay designers are still exceptional and better than the trash these A tier western devs put out. I put in 150 hours into Zelda and couldnt even beat Avatar. I beat RE4 8 times in a month, and took 4 months to beat Alan Wake once. Maybe they should contract out their graphics programming to western devs. Their artists are still able to push exceptional visual design.
man I still think about Killzone 2 all the goddamn time. the fact that it's not too far off the e3 trailer and ran at a mostly solid 30 was nuts when that came out, and it definitely felt a generation ahead of halo3 on launch. the detail mapped textures were great as well.
 

HighPoly

Banned
Looks great. IMO next (this) gen detail and complexity.
Again, just like with ff16, the soft lighting and shadowing on tifa's bra is immaculate. Looks like a render. Look at the straps and the fabric. That's ff16 quality at the very least:

nEGHTOD.jpg

Compared to original it's night and day
rVJ6V13.jpeg

And my fav 7 remake screenshot (also ps5)
bUwofVD.jpeg


and compared to some ff16 amazing showcase of soft cgi-like light/shadow
HvC4xTk.jpeg

jcu1395.jpeg

wd9irZ1.jpeg

vWtyGhQ.jpeg
I forgot how beautiful PSONE CGi looks like
 

Audiophile

Member
Basing it on the footage included in the video. Look at the distant buildings and how detailed they look without any fog or blurring. the number of NPCs is also very impressive. The open world area looks gorgeous too.

VTMwd8G.gif


...

The smooth lighting paired with the assets and the colour palette on the distant buildings is giving me major vibes from mid 2000s animated movies. Just something really pleasing about the way it comes together.
 

Lethal01

Member
GG6qx8CW0AApNBj



GG6qcqRXAAAMe8g

GG6qo34WIAAK3ok

I think the camera is pulled too far back during gameplay but even when i zoom in, it doesnt look much better than the last game.

Just to be clear I'm not saying the models are amazing, however they are very clearly new models and that's obvious.
Again not saying "these are mindblowing models", just saying that they are objectively new and objectively all upgraded something you keep trying to deny.

I have criticisms of these new models, but its silly to go "these devs are cheap, they just reused the old models"
Again its very clear that they atleast doubled the geo in the pants, the PS4 models were ridiculously flat with a mediocre normal map thrown on, same goes for a lot of clothes in the other characters.

Anyway the whole "built for PS5" stuff is just dumb marketing. The models square made are far beyond what PS5 is actually capable of and you only see their full quality in the pre rendered CGI, its more like these models are downgraded for PS5, this is standard practice.

Basing it on the footage included in the video. Look at the distant buildings and how detailed they look without any fog or blurring. the number of NPCs is also very impressive. The open world area looks gorgeous too.

VTMwd8G.gif


UBuCzp7.gif

KmTgDMu.gif


Ive been saying how much better this would be with better shadows for months, actually got banned from a discord for it, not to brag.
 
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Is this the kind of horror you are talking about?

image.png


If so this is definitely an example of a failure of lighting rather than a bad model.
This isnt making excuses for the game, it needs better lighting, just pointing out where the actual flaws are
I hope this was fixed in the final version because Cloud looks way better in Remake Intergrade.
 

SimTourist

Member
DF confirms that the issues in the flashback demo do not occur in the main game which has very high level of detail in every object and great lighting.

However, there are still some issues like poor shadows coverage which makes the game look flat on rare occasions. Thats it. Fucking shadows. You know what game had great shadows? FF16. You know why? Because they didnt waste the GPU on rendering 8.2 million native 4k pixels. This is so silly. FF16 drops from 1440p down to 1080p at times using fucking FSR1 no less and it looks stunning because of those fucking shadows.

This game has so much better art direction and some gorgeous environments but let down by shadows of all things. Come on.

j7xSSNF.jpg
VOlyjFu.jpg


Other than that, the game looks stunning. The level of detail in cities is incredible. It's so dense and brimming with detail. Complete opposite of that bizarre town in the flashback demo.
Even some basic 2007 SSAO would make it look better. Devs are just forgetting previous tech.
 

paolo11

Member
Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth is a beautiful game. Sure it looks like Remake and performance mode is blurry but Remake is extremely beautiful for ps4. It’s more beautiful than most of the ps5 games out there let’s be honest however….


Rebirth can use improvements. I just don’t think the developers know how to optimize the engine.
 

GymWolf

Member
I don't know what you are trying to say but games looked way better than that for years now.
Would love PE1 remake
I signaled people to mods for less.

They are already violating the memory of ff7, let's keep PE far away from nomura's handa and the other hacks at square.
 

Neilg

Member
It was. That comparison is made from the flashback sequence which looks like shit.
Looks like the GI probes for faking bounce light on characters are missing in that section
If not hit by direct light they're turning that dark in the shadows - but only in that part of the game - and only when outside? it's a technical issue or conflict between systems.
 

Lethal01

Member
Having Red XIII riding a chocobo trumps any graphical improvement they could make.
Look at him holding the reins with his little paws :messenger_smiling_hearts:

You can have both, infact them having good character and world design makes it an even bigger shame when the technology causes it to look worse
 

Lethal01

Member
It was. That comparison is made from the flashback sequence which looks like shit. the main game is a completely different game.

He looks much closer to the FF7 Remake model. Maybe slightly better. But roughly the same.


GG6qxZAWsAAGoTE

If his model looked closer to the remake model then it would be a downgrade, since the remake model is just worse in every way than the Nibleheim model.
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
If his model looked closer to the remake model then it would be a downgrade, since the remake model is just worse in every way than the Nibleheim model.
Im not seeing what you are seeing but i will boot up the game and take some shots in photo mode.

i did notice that the team character models look far more detailed during gameplay.
 

Lethal01

Member
Im not seeing what you are seeing but i will boot up the game and take some shots in photo mode.

i did notice that the team character models look far more detailed during gameplay.


Here is a screenshot of Remake PS4
FINAL_FANTASY_VII_REMAKE_20240219013149.png


It has the same lighting issues that you saw in Rebirth, its these lighting issues that you are interpreting as a lack of model quality.
But I am not talkin about the lighting, I am talking about the model itself, the amount of vertices, the texture quality, the shaders, all of which are upgraded in Rebirth.

image.png

Here is Rebirth, you can actually see the thick folds on his baggy pants, they are made of real geometry.
now compare Remake


image.png


His pants are much flatter and much less dense geometry wise and the simply use a very ugly texture to fake the wrinkles.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
From PS2 level water to PS3 level, come on man, it's a joke. The water reaction in the second pic even looks worse than the previous game.
This an Unreal 3 demo from 2008 and it has better water rendering.
Resistance 2

Come on man. both games have really trashy looking water. maybe better simulations but they both look like trash in comparison. where is the color? do they not believe in reflections? they do a good job with the ripples when you are walking but other than that there are no ripples and the water feels static.
 
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