Senua
Gold Member
Atmosphere was amazing in the first game and this looks to push that significantly further. It looks much darker too which is a bonus. Gives Robert Eggers vibes
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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen
- Thread starter ResetEraVetVIP
- Start date
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
Yeah. They absolutely took inspiration from The Northman
Clear, clear vision that they are going for. Cant wait
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GymWolf
Member
This is why i always tell you that gimmicky, boss fights against giant enemies are usually dogshit mechanically, now you are starting to see the light finally
Nah, mh looks decent and the models of the big dragons are every bit as good as the dragon in that pic if not better
A fully nextgen game after 6 years should absolutely smash an old gen multiplatform game, sorry but you can't win this one, no matter how much you try.
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Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
This seems like a very significant jump?
GTA6 is gonna be disgustingly sexy on this thing
amigastar
Member
So it's better than my I7 11700k with my RTX 4070? Fuck.
GymWolf
Member
That sound sexy, not gonna lie.
What do we know about spectral upscaling and sony machine learning stuff?
Aren't they still locked to whatever tech amd has available?
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
lmao. I am not trying to win. I just think GOW is fucking dated in comparison and its not a good comparison to an open world game where the dragon can probably fly around the map with you on its back stabbing it. GOW had you in a loading area when you were fighting baldur on top of the dragon. in a grey fog while it loaded midgard. come on, how is this even a fair comparison.This is why i always tell you that gimmicky, boss fights against giant enemies are usually dogshit mechanically, now you are starting to see the light finally
Nah, mh looks decent and the models of the big dragons are every bit as good as the dragon in that pic if not better
A fully nextgen game after 6 years should absolutely smash an old gen multiplatform game, sorry but you can't win this one, no matter how much you try.
And monster hunter looks like shit. no amount of bullshots will convince me it doesnt. it is legit one of the worst looking games ive seen on PS4. But even i understood that it looked a generation behind gow because it was far more dynamic. I am simply applying that same logic to Dragons Dogma 2. I even said it looks last gen several times while praising only the animations and you took offense to that for some reason.
GymWolf
Member
Nah.
Cpu is gonna be much worse, total ram is gonna be worse and series 4000 has framegen that is much better than amd fsr3.
Bojji
Member
In normal raster it's not a big jump at all, PS4 pro was much bigger jump.
1.62x in teraflop power increase (33.5 is 16.75 in reality) while PS4 pro was ~2.3x.
Senua
Gold Member
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
how is less than 50% more powerful significant? PS4 Pro was 2x more powerful at the minimum.
The ray tracing performance being better is only going to help ray traced games and most games that are struggling to run 60 fps have it disabled in 60 fps modes anyway. So something like AW2 which drops to 720p will now only improve to 900p. very shitty if you ask me.
They need a minimum of 70% better GPU + way higher CPU clocks + DLSS + nvidia quality ray tracing otherwise they are not going to get the 720p to 1080p upgrade for 60 fps modes, and those 1440p 30 fps modes arent even going to hit 1800p.
GymWolf
Member
Of course it looks bad in the grand scheme of things, but the monsters are very very nice and some locations have some nice effects like lava and snow that other better looking games don't have, we were talking about dragon rendering and the big dragons look as good if not better than the dragons in dogma 2 except maybe the main villain.
these are the smaller dragons, tell me how the dogma 2 pic look better (and my pic is absolutely terrible)
The fact that i can even make a comparison is absurd, there is a gen and 6 years behind these games.
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Senua
Gold Member
It's a shame, but at least upscaling tech should be a significant jump
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Like i said, it looks like a last gen game. I was just taking issue with your GOW dragon because that fight sucked ass.Of course it looks bad in the grand scheme of things, but the monsters are very very nice and some locations have some nice effects like lava and snow that other better looking games don't have, we were talking about dragon rendering and the big dragons look as good if not better than the dragons in dogma 2 except maybe the main villain.
these are the smaller dragons, tell me how the dogma 2 pic look better (and my pic is absolutely terrible)
The fact that i can even make a comparison is absurd, there is a gen and 6 years behind these games.
mrqs
Member
Isn't the PS5 10TF? 33TF would be 3x more powerful. Maybe the "45% faster" means the internal speed between CPU/GPU etc?
Anyway, I'd love a super expensive console experience that really push things forward. I'm totally fine if the PS5 Pro and next Xbox have a high-end $999 usd version.
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ResetEraVetVIP
Member
Greedy companies, underpaid lazy devs, old engines. I think the “elites” are holding back gaming tech purposely to have more generations and to keep games from advancing too fast. All games should look way better this generation. 3 and a half years into PS5 generation and not one game looks like The Matrix Awakens demo.Of course it looks bad in the grand scheme of things, but the monsters are very very nice and some locations have some nice effects like lava and snow that other better looking games don't have, we were talking about dragon rendering and the big dragons look as good if not better than the dragons in dogma 2 except maybe the main villain.
these are the smaller dragons, tell me how the dogma 2 pic look better (and my pic is absolutely terrible)
The fact that i can even make a comparison is absurd, there is a gen and 6 years behind these games.
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GymWolf
Member
But i was not talking about the boss fight, just the dragon rendering and it's not like we have so many dragons in AAA games so i can't really make many examples.
Let's keep it real dude
Bojji
Member
Tf numbers for rdna3 are "bullshit" so if you want to do direct comparison it's not 33.5tf but 16.75tf in "PS5 power level".
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
upscaling has a cost too. so you will just get 1440p dlss quality modes. Avatar, Star Wars, Starfield and most games use 1440p internal res for their FSR2 30 fps modes anyway. So all you are getting for the extra $600 is a slightly more stable image.
i was hoping for performance modes to use 4k DLSS performance and i dont think a 45% performance lift gets them there. My 3080 is basically around 70% more powerful and even i had to settle for dlss 4k performance in some games to get 60 fps. I dont care what secret cerny sauce they use, but anything they upscale from sub 1080p wont look as good.
mrqs
Member
Got it. Either way, I'd love anything that helps with RTGI to run better and less noise on movement because of poor FSR tech.
yamaci17
Member
tflops do not scale meaningfully across generations and hardware
AMD Radeon RX 7800 XT Specs
AMD Navi 32, 2430 MHz, 3840 Cores, 240 TMUs, 96 ROPs, 16384 MB GDDR6, 2438 MHz, 256 bit
37 tflops monster
AMD Radeon RX 6800 XT Specs
AMD Navi 21, 2250 MHz, 4608 Cores, 288 TMUs, 128 ROPs, 16384 MB GDDR6, 2000 MHz, 256 bit
20 tflops monstrosity
this is what it amounts to,
lol
to be fair NVIDIA started the Tflops bullshit with Kepler. then returned back to norm with Pascal. then AMD rekindled the bullshit with some of their GCN and Vega GPUs. NVIDIA doubled down on it with Ampere. AMD returned to norm with rdna1/2. then they doubled down on it with rdna 3. and cycle goes on.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
you brought up 6 years when discussing the dragon dogma 2 graphics. well, nvidia's ray tracing solution is now 6 years old having debut in 2018. If AMD and Cerny cant match RTX 2000 series performance 6 years later then they might as well retire and go third party. its not like its some super secret tech we dont know about. everyone knows how nvidia is doing ray tracing. fuck em if they cant get parity in 2024.But i was not talking about the boss fight, just the dragon rendering and it's not like we have so many dragons in AAA games so i can't really make many examples.
Let's keep it real dude
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
Is that new Assassins Creed with destructible environments supposed to launch this year???
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
they said this fiscal year. so if it misses this holiday season, expect jan-march launch next year.
GymWolf
Member
I was more talking about the whole machine learning things (you know how much fucks i give about rtx
), nvidia just trained his IA before it was cool to do it so they have an enourmous advantage over everyone, especially amd.If they get on parity with dlss3 in 2025 it's gonna be an absolute miracle, and nvidia cards are huge and have hardware components for IA and rtx, i'm not sure if you can squeeze all the tech into an small api for console.
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yamaci17
Member
if you want better ray tracing compatibility, you should be on the look out for cpu upgrades
problem is even if you run ray tracing with extremely beefy cpus, some games are simply optimized so horribly for ray tracing that there's no way of getting stable frametimes with it, no matter the GPU or the configuration
for example there exists no CPU that can hit 60 fps %1 lows in koboh and hogsmeade with ray tracing
these games manage ray tracing CPU load so bad on consoles that it also has an effect on how it is perceived on PC. you literally can't bruteforce it if you want to stay above certain levels of performance. even looking at averages, 5800x 3d barely gets you to 60 fps in non-Hogsmeade portion of the game, so you are looking at below 60 fps avg. in hogsmeade too with such a CPU
so at some point problem needs to be fixed at its core: optimization. and that's about it. if they can't do that, I'd say PS5 pro should focus on rasterization jumps instead of ray tracing jumps. unless they fully believe in their own studios. it is true that ratchet clank and spiderman can hit 80+ fps with ray tracing as long as you reduce the resolution. but it is clear that dragon dogma, hogwarts legacy and jedi survivor didn't get the memo as to how to do it.
it is clear that this is a core issue that cannot be resolved with more GPU grunt
if developers keep optimizing their cpu bound code like dragon dogma, hogwarts or jedi survivor with ray tracing, there's no sensible cpu upgrade that console can have to allow better ray tracing stability/performance. even zen 3 is not enough for this bullshit. and even zen 3 will be pushing the limits of the budget of the pro. so it is not a problem that console can fix with bruteforcing unless they go out their way to somehow put a zen 5 cpu there which is impossible.
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Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
ill say next year then. 2025 is EASILY shaping up to be the best year of the gen for me
this one by far the worst, too many ugly japanese games.
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JCreasy
Member
Well, ok, this is absolutely incredible.
Looks like a pretty nice The Order 1886 of this generation, and I love it.
Are these from cutscenes or actual gameplay?
What's separating this from what we're seeing in Death Stranding 2? The skin textures seem a step above. Is it merely lighting? Can Lumen elevate the character model fidelity even if Nanite doesn't work on skeletal meshes yet?
DS2 still looks superior from an art perspective. But things like the grimy dirt, sweat and pores add density details that DS2 could benefit from.
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yamaci17
Member
lighting can be really important too. it is probably lumen doing heavy lifting. I've tried Jusant on game pass and that game looks incredible to me despite simple geometry/texture
amigastar
Member
Those eyes actually having life in them, something not every game does. Amazing.Well, ok, this is absolutely incredible.
Looks like a pretty nice The Order 1886 of this generation, and I love it.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
but sony cant even get their existing studios to make games in decima. lol
this is true, but if they are reporting 2-4x ray tracing improvements then that will bring them up to par with nvidia. the AI accelerators dont take that much space on the GPU from what i understand. the numbers are apparently from sonys official documentation so i highly doubt that they are lying about their own benchmarks.
JCreasy
Member
I can imagine Square being intrigued for the same reason Kojima was. All of PlayStation’s western devs are too cocky to admit how good Decima is. I think the Japanese recognize the apparent gaps in capability between their tech and western devs more broadly.
Plus, in this fantasy scenario, there wouldn’t be the need to pay licensing fees to Epic for Unreal.
GymWolf
Member
They start from the bottom, i hardly think they can get on pair with nvidia...
2-4x times better than now, but now rtx is kinda dogshit on console...
Like, you think cyberpunk on pro is gonna run with full pathtracing?
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
If they are on par with nvidia then yes. I can run cyberpunk PT at 4k dlss performance and get 25-33 fps on my 3080. This thing looks more like a 3070 so just drop the resolution to 720p and upscale to 1440p like avatar does for its 60 fps mode and it should be possible at 30 fps. I can run cyberpunk pt at roughly 60 fps at that resolution but i have a way better CPU and GpU.
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
So the Pro is going to be a scam pretty much and this gen is doomed to remain as shitty as it is now
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yamaci17
Member
its really hard to beat dlss at absurdly low internal resolutions like 480p/720p/1080p
people who mock dlss being unusable at 1080p or 1440p/4kultra performance modes being bad are just entitled actually. 1440p dlss performance (720p) will often look better than regular upscalers that upscale from 1080p. it is rather insane how good DLSS is the lower you go. if Sony can match that somehow all good. but PS5 users will feel scammed then so I will feel bad for suggesting one of my friends to get a PS5 (first console of his life). if they can't make it software based and backwards compatible, that will be a big kick in the gut to an entire userbase. because DLSS is present on rtx 2070 from 2018 and will keep being a performance and image quality enhancer at the same time for such cards
I can safely say 4k dlss performance in last of us part 1, moving or not, looks better than native 1440p on PS5. even ratchet and clank at 1440p dlss performance looks equal to the ps5's ray traced performance mode that is supposed to be running around 1000-1200p and upscale to 1440p. and that was with IGTI, probably best upscaler sony studios have
it was even more funny when I tried 1080p dlss quality versus 1440p ray tracing performance mode on PS5 and 1080p dlss quality still ended up having better temporal stability and presentation than PS5, lol (but of course 1080p output was noticably blurrier). IGTI, FSR and all of that is a joke. only xess is decent but it is still far cry from DLSS.
people mock 1440p dlss perf or 1080p dlss quality because of 720p internals but actually most end users are super fine with it and these modes being "presentably" good gives insane longevity to older cards and gives some possibilities to some cards that would otherwise be impossible (such as being able to run ray traced alan wake 2 at above 30 fps with 1440p output)
this 1440p dlss quality output looks damn near 1440p and GPU retains 30+ fps with ray tracing.
PS5 and Xbox Series X in Quality Mode render at a resolution of approximately 2259x1270 and appear to use FSR 2 to reconstruct a 3840x2160 resolution.
with regular FSR, 1270p and alike does not really look that much above 1440p actually. so while 1440p dlss quality presents a 1440p-like image, FSR is the opposite and barely improves the image quality compared to its internal resolution.
this creates a situation where 3070 can get similar resolution image quality but with ray tracing at similar framerate targets. which potentially makes the effective power difference between them more than %100 (considering how heavy ray tracing is in this game compared to raster). despite rasterization results would show you 3070 is barely above %30-40 compared to ps5. but if you factor in how good DLSS is doing of a job at lower resolutions, and add ray tracing into the mix, and have the same 30-40 fps target, voila, you get insanely effective ray tracing render over consoles.
with cyberpunk you can easily shoot above 40 fps with 1440p dlss performance, and it looks good (but not with ray reconstruction in cyberpunk.) it also saves a lot of VRAM which helps these VRAM limited GPUs immensely. but that is another topic... (and clarification: dogtown is much harder to run than base game with path tracing)
(another clarification is that my encoding is low quality and bitrate is not that high, and youtube is not helping either. so take image quality on these videos with a grain of salt. it looks much better in person)
Now: you may question why I'm obsessed with low input dlss resolutions. because to me, it makes it more worthwhile to get even more performance and use higher fidelity settings. to me, using 4k dlss quality and 4k fsr quality or regular upscalers, they all look presentable/decent with dlss having nice advantages. the REAL big advantages really start when you go to 1080p and below. so I feel like I get more mileage out of DLSS by targeting 720-1080p as much as possible. but that is just me.
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ResetEraVetVIP
Member
Exactly.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
lol you always go to the extreme. It will be fine. You wanted a 60 fps machine with good image quality and this thing will give you that in RT games. Less so in non RT games but the big games like gta6, death stranding 2 and Star Wars outlaws are all going for RT so if you want 60 fps in those games at higher resolutions than the 720p you have had to settle for this Gen then this thing is perfect for you.
Negotiator101
Member
In a comparison with the PS4 Pro to the PS4 and this to the PS5 how does it compare?
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Ps4 pro was 2.3x more powerful.
Ps5 pro is 1.45x more powerful.
However, ps5 pro is 2-4x more powerful in ray tracing. And has 4x machine learning capabilities.
Ps4 pro relied on the 2.3x gpu to take ps4 1080p games to 1512p or from 2.1 million pixels to 4.1 million pixels. Then it used the checkerboard hardware to take games from 4.1 million pixels to 8.2 million pixels. Ps5 pro will not be able to take games from 2.1 million pixels to 4.1 million pixels but it can use AI to get better 4k upscaling from that 1080p 2.1 million pixel base.
its not a huge leap but it will improve ray traced games and finally offer a decent upscaling solution to console gamers. But i will need to see some actual benchmarks of ray traced games to see just what kind of resolution upgrade we are looking at.
The initial deepdown trailer reminds me of the new Netflix movie Damsel (2024), the intro scene, especially the dragon fire effects. Heck it might be better than the movie. (literally 1:25 to 3:25 in the movie)
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sankt-Antonio
:^)--?-<
Imo the lower TF bump compared to PS4 to PS4pro is more than compensated with their hopefully competent DLSS like implementation (hard- and software) and additional ray tracing hardware that is offloading the GPU somewhat.
At the end of the day i think the perceived jump is going to be the same, just not achieved by raw TF numbers.
At the end of the day i think the perceived jump is going to be the same, just not achieved by raw TF numbers.
The upsclaing has a cost of its own, it is not going to be a magical pill that will turn the measly 45 percent translatable compute gains into a 80 percent increase. Even an improved reconstruction would need a reasonable resolution to start as a base if the console doesn't have enough horsepower to run a 720p mode into atleast 1080pbase resolution for the reconstruction pipleline than its still not great.
I still cant believe that they managed to only achieve a pathetic 45percent increase in standard workloads a lot of games don't even have comprehensive rt modes to leverage the major rt efficiency gains. To make things worse its bottleneck probably bandwidth means its not even able to achieve the full use of its tflops and is only going to be around 3070 levels instead of a 4070/3080.
GymWolf
Member
A dude on reeee was commenting about the leaked stream of dd2 on twitch:
That said, he killed all guards in the capital easily with no consequences.
There seems to be no prison and NPCs and guards just spawn again and go on with their life as like nothing has happened.
he also just picked up NPCs and threw them around at first and nothing really happened accept some screaming. Guards didnt react to it.
Also when he attacked guards the other guards just slowly walked towards before drawing their weapon 1m infront of him.
But the underlying systemssssssss tho, this thing looks less evolved than the last 3 ac games simulation wise...let alone skyrim, rdr2 and many others (japanese devs are usually not famous for their npcs ia)
Slimy you better hope this game does some secret stuff that nobody has seen yet or this is gonna be another tekken 8 reveal trailer for you my brotha
Edit: well the gameplay link doesn't work anymore but i watched some of it and yeah...it doesn't look advanced in the slightest.
That said, he killed all guards in the capital easily with no consequences.
There seems to be no prison and NPCs and guards just spawn again and go on with their life as like nothing has happened.
he also just picked up NPCs and threw them around at first and nothing really happened accept some screaming. Guards didnt react to it.
Also when he attacked guards the other guards just slowly walked towards before drawing their weapon 1m infront of him.
But the underlying systemssssssss tho, this thing looks less evolved than the last 3 ac games simulation wise...let alone skyrim, rdr2 and many others (japanese devs are usually not famous for their npcs ia)
Slimy you better hope this game does some secret stuff that nobody has seen yet or this is gonna be another tekken 8 reveal trailer for you my brotha
Edit: well the gameplay link doesn't work anymore but i watched some of it and yeah...it doesn't look advanced in the slightest.
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yamaci17
Member
replaying Control after alan wake 2 and it still looks great for a 5 year old title. gameplay is amazing and physics are top notch
on the negative side, textures are outdated and the game is too grainy with ray tracing even at native 1440p rendering. I wish they added ray reconstruction to this game retroactively. would help a lot
still surprisingly heavy on the 3070 at native 1440p with all ray traced effects enabled.
1440p dlss quality helps a lot but game becomes even more grainy. I think I will keep playing this one at native 1440p. I even updated the DLL but it didn't help much
on the negative side, textures are outdated and the game is too grainy with ray tracing even at native 1440p rendering. I wish they added ray reconstruction to this game retroactively. would help a lot
still surprisingly heavy on the 3070 at native 1440p with all ray traced effects enabled.
1440p dlss quality helps a lot but game becomes even more grainy. I think I will keep playing this one at native 1440p. I even updated the DLL but it didn't help much