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Has Any Character Been Ruined More Than Jin Kazama (Tekken)?

SOLDIER

Member
People tend to bring up the same examples when it comes to videogame characters who have gotten worse overtime (such as Cloud being a sad sack from Advent Children and onward or Samus "The Baby The Baby The Baby" Samuson).

But I think Tekken's Jin Kazama beats everyone else to the punch (hur hur):

jin_kazama_by_kaollachan.jpg


For much of his Tekken career, Jin has fought against his Mishima bloodline: he unlearned the fighting style Heihachi taught him, he gained friends who supported him (Xiaoyu, who is also a potential love interest, and Hwoarang, who started as a rival but also showed signs of respect, re his Tekken 4 ending), and in a pivotal moment he managed to repress his Devil gene thanks to his memories of his mother Jun (Tekken 4's ending, which even showed a brief image of an angel feather, hinting at Jin's cleansing of the evil within).

The message had been clear: Jin was the hero who fought against his own cursed bloodline. He was the one Mishima who wouldn't become a world-conquering asshole.

Then in Tekken 6, he became a world-conquering asshole:

2165397-t6jinprologue02.png


Overnight, he becomes head of the Mishima Zaibatsu and proceeds to cause World War III times a million, killing countless people everywhere and shutting off all ties with his former allies, as well as gaining a ton of new enemies.

Only (Tekken 6 spoilers) it turned out he was only "pretending" to be evil, because he had to do all the bad stuff to awaken the stupid-looking ancient evil we all already forgot about so that he could kill it while he was weak.

It was a dumb twist everyone already saw coming, and it pretty much permanently ruined the character. There's really no sensible way anyone could say he's absolved of his actions considering all the devastation he was responsible for (plus there are still characters who still want to super-kill him, and they are entirely justified to do so).

And, much like post-AC Cloud, all the spinoffs and games following Tekken 6 still portray Jin as an evil businessman. I was hoping Tekken 7 would give them the chance to roll things back so that we could get Jin back to how he used to be, but so far it looks like his role will be minimal at best, as his asshole father and even bigger asshole grandfather look to be the main focus of that game's story mode.

Some people think that Jin didn't get interesting until he went the (semi) heel route, but I disagree: the Tekken series already had a bunch of morally dubious characters, including the aforementioned Mishimas. Jin balanced things out by being one of the few purely good fighters, and his continued backstory of fighting against fate and family made him one of the few fighting game characters whose backstory I felt invested in. They basically took the Evil Ryu concept and made it much more interesting, in my opinion.

Maybe I'm wrong and it turns out my boy will get better representation, as I'm very behind on what they're actually doing with Tekken 7, but so far it isn't looking that way. Don't even get me started on how they seem more commited to focusing on Lars, aka "We really didn't need another Mishima, especially one designed by the fucking Naruto creator".

At least have him hook up with Xiaoyu already. The two are adorable together. Give my boy some happiness.
 

emag

Member
Cast of Chrono Trigger in Chrono Cross.

Jin was bland and directionless after his debut in T3. Clearly Namco didn't know where to take him even in T4.
 
He's been featured as core storyline and an important player in every Tekken since 3.

His personality really hasn't changed.

Really if anything you should be more bummed of how Paul Phoenix was a major player but has slowly turned into a joke character.
 

SOLDIER

Member
Samus in Other M.

(Although, I like to just pretend that game isn't cannon.)

People can keep citing this forever, but all it takes is to make a new Metroid game that never references Other M. It is super easy to write that one out of canon.

Not so much for Jin Luther.
 
Samus in Other M.

(Although, I like to just pretend that game isn't cannon.)

Sakamoto ruined Samus Aran.

The fact that Nintendo has not extracted him from the series is disheartening, but they usually don't divorce producers from their franchises (although Sakamoto inherited it from Gunpei Yokoi) so it is what it is.
 

mindsale

Member
Uncharted 4 Nathan Drake.

Goes from gifted-but-everyman plunderer to fated hero from family of renown archaeologists whose mother orchestrated all his past adventures.
 

dugdug

Banned
Frank West went from out-of-shape journalist dropkicks zombies and covered wars to your fucking dad.
 
Jin Kazama was so fucking awesome in Tekken 4. Then for some reason they decided they wanted nothing to do with him anymore and downgraded him from the hero of the game to a side character :/
 

SOLDIER

Member
He's been featured as core storyline and an important player in every Tekken since 3.

His personality really hasn't changed.

Really if anything you should be more bummed of how Paul Phoenix was a major player but has slowly turned into a joke character.

In my opinion Paul got more interesting as a joke character (who is still a competent fighter).

I feel more sorry for Forest Law: he's shown to be more skilled than his father, but pretty much got passed over while his old man continues to be the Bruce Lee rep in most games following Tekken 3.
 

fhqwhgads

Member
Capcom did a pretty good job of ruining most of the Resident Evil characters, though out of all of them Jill got ruined the most.
 

Mistouze

user-friendly man-cashews
I'd argue that he wasn't that good in the first place but heh, I'm not a Tekken fan so I don't have a strong case for it.

What gets me is what Sega did to Vanessa in the Virtua Fighters games. Started as a buff black woman in VF4 and they kept on giving her a lighter skin tone and less muscles in each of the sequels. She went from being a unique character in fighting games to hot chick #561
vf_vanessa.jpg
 

Marcel

Member
Cloud in FFVII went from a goofball who is only pretending to be cool to a boring, joyless loser in all future depictions of him.
 

Rambler

Member
I'd argue that he wasn't that good in the first place but heh, I'm not a Tekken fan so I don't have a strong case for it.

What gets me is what Sega did to Vanessa in the Virtua Fighters games. Started as a buff black woman in VF4 and they kept on giving her a lighter skin tone and less muscles in each of the sequels. She went from being a unique character in fighting games to hot chick #561
vf_vanessa.jpg
I hate what VF5 did to Goh more.
 

Mifec

Member
Uncharted 4 Nathan Drake.

Goes from gifted-but-everyman plunderer to fated hero from family of renown archaeologists whose mother orchestrated all his past adventures.

There was never anything to ruin about him. He was always a badly written amalgamation of tropes.
 

Burbeting

Banned
Uncharted 4 Nathan Drake.

Goes from gifted-but-everyman plunderer to fated hero from family of renown archaeologists whose mother orchestrated all his past adventures.

I really don't agree with this one.
Sure, his mother was an archeologist, but it had been implied from the start that he had some extremely good skills not an every-man should have, like casually knowing ancient spanish in the first game. The explanation in the fourth game gives the character more context, without making him a fated hero like you are implying.

---

For something other, I'd say Ratchet and Clank both in their series. They have very slowly lost all of their personality over the games, and turned into just... boring hero templates. And both of them were turned into chosen fated heroes quite literally.
 
(although Sakamoto inherited it from Gunpei Yokoi) so it is what it is.

Wow, no. Sakamoto was the director on Metroid and Super Metroid.

From Retro Gamer:
Sakamoto remembers how his superior viewed Super Metroid: "Yokoi-san, who at the time was my section chief and who always had fresh ideas, was always angry when he saw us all completely absorbed and working crazy overtime on Super Metroid. He came in and said, 'Are you lot trying to produce a work of art or something?' [laughs] But this was an epic and we were already way past our deadline, and it seemed we were getting progressively further from our objectives - Yokoi-san was becoming angrier with us day by day during that period.
 

Synth

Member
What gets me is what Sega did to Vanessa in the Virtua Fighters games. Started as a buff black woman in VF4 and they kept on giving her a lighter skin tone and less muscles in each of the sequels. She went from being a unique character in fighting games to hot chick #561
vf_vanessa.jpg

This is what I was coming here to say.
 
Cloud in FFVII went from a goofball who is only pretending to be cool to a boring, joyless loser in all future depictions of him.
One can only hope the remake lets square enix become familiar with the personality they seem to have forgotten existed.
I'm going to say the entire persona 3&4 cast. They were written well enough in their respective mainline game but the spinoffs makes all the characters defined by one trope. Worst offenders being chie and Akihiko. Still love the cast however. Would share the same sentiment about Jin but I only care about king in that franchise and he's still great.
 
Solid Snake, MGS2 to MGS4. Went from an inspiring, idealistic hero, changing the world for the better with his best bud by his side to a totally apathetic grunt, following orders with no opinions or motivation of his own.
 
Cloud in FFVII went from a goofball who is only pretending to be cool to a boring, joyless loser in all future depictions of him.

Pretty much. Square-Enix doesn't get what Squaresoft was about at all in general actually let alone Final Fantasy or its characters. But I think most of the original staff is gone by now anyways? So it's no surprise they completely ruined him.
 

SOLDIER

Member
One can only hope the remake lets square enix become familiar with the personality they seem to have forgotten existed.
I'm going to say the entire persona 3&4 cast. They were written well enough in their respective mainline game but the spinoffs makes all the characters defined by one trope. Worst offenders being chie and Akihiko. Still love the cast however. Would share the same sentiment about Jin but I only care about king in that franchise and he's still great.

They already said that Cloud in Remake wouldn't share his AC personality. They even referred to him as "Prime Cloud".

AC Cloud was perfectly fine...in AC. He had a justification for his personality, and the movie showed that he had overcome it.

The problem is everything afterwards were spinoffs and crossovers, and since AC Cloud was the most familiar at the time, that's what they went with.

I suspect there's going to be a lot of grumbling when Remake comes out, where people will insist "That's not how that character is supposed to act!" when in fact it's nostalgia (and a bad translation) that hinders their memories.
 

Northeastmonk

Gold Member
I gave up on Jin when they killed him off and only gave Devil Jin his fighting style. He was awesome in T3 and TTT.

Devil Jin is too much sometimes.

I thought he was a good guy in Tekken 3/TTT. He shined above his father and grandfather if you ask me.

Jin Kazama was once a well grounded character. I remember seeing him in Tekken 4 thinking it was a cool look, but after 4 it got a bit old. I wanted the old Jin back.

It's like his beef with his father and grandfather is overshadowed by his Devil gene and who cares he's fighting his father without his mother's influence in his fighting style.
 

BadWolf

Member
Solid Snake, MGS2 to MGS4. Went from an inspiring, idealistic hero, changing the world for the better with his best bud by his side to a totally apathetic grunt, following orders with no opinions or motivation of his own.

Nah, his and Raiden's re-imaginings in MGS4 were fantastic.
 

SOLDIER

Member
Jin is the Gohan of Tekken.

Except Gohan got a happy ending.

I'd be all over a timeskip that showed Jin and Xiaoyu's child as the new main character.

Except, judging by Namco's past fighting games, that would mean both characters would have had to die horribly and Xiaoyu would come back as a half-naked deity.

.....I still kind of want to see that.
 

Atolm

Member
I had completely forgotten that Tekken had a storyline. In my mind, everything is a mumbo jumbo to keep making games.
 
Tekken 6 kind ruined Tekken lore in general. I think the team knows this, which is why they're wrapping up the saga and making Akuma canon because yolo.

Hopefully the next game will be a full reboot.
 
Except Gohan got a happy ending.

I'd be all over a timeskip that showed Jin and Xiaoyu's child as the new main character.

Except, judging by Namco's past fighting games, that would mean both characters would have had to die horribly and Xiaoyu would come back as a half-naked deity.

.....I still kind of want to see that.

Real shame because Jin was the rare case of being the face of a new cast in a franchise and actually pulling it off. Hope he reclaims the throne as the face of the franchise in the future.
 

cordy

Banned
Tbh, the only game to damage Jin was T6. There's many characters in other series (hell in Tekken) that are more damaged in numerous games. You mention Jin but you didn't even mutter Paul and what happened to him.
 

Skronk

Banned
Jin follows the cliche anime edgelord trajectory perfectly. I don't know why you expected anything different.

Good thing about fighting games is the fighting part barely makes any sense and story is secondary. So when you're playing as Jin he can be fighting whatever person, for whatever reason you want.
 

SOLDIER

Member
Real shame because Jin was the rare case of being the face of a new cast in a franchise and actually pulling it off. Hope he reclaims the throne as the face of the franchise in the future.

Not when they want to keep pushing Lars and Alisa.

Like I seriously can't believe those two are still getting top-billing. At least they're not as bad as the twins in Soul Calibur.
 
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