Oh please. Advent Children is a glorified tech demo that barely gives any character a moment to breathe when they're not fighting some Diet Sephiroth concept art castoff. Pretending that anyone has to respect that version of Cloud (or anything from that movie) is laughable.
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Has Any Character Been Ruined More Than Jin Kazama (Tekken)?
- Thread starter SOLDIER
- Start date
Oh please. Advent Children is a glorified tech demo that barely gives any character a moment to breathe when they're not fighting some Diet Sephiroth concept art castoff. Pretending that anyone has to respect that version of Cloud (or anything from that movie) is laughable.
Dragonsushi
Member
Gonna slide this in riiiight here.
Tekken 6 seriously trashed the Tekken story line.
I can't believe that they thought it was a good idea to basically ruin Jin and his role in the Mishima saga.
He's ok not to kill both Mishimas when he had the chance because he thought his mother would be against it but it's fine to start WW3?
And then we have Lars who is completely unnecessary and plain boring and his sidekick Alisa who is obviously a fanservice android (and a badly designed one too) and does not fit at all in this and they somehow focused the story mode around those two...
And Azrael was one of the worst endboss bullshit characters ever in a fighting game.
And that thing was the main motivation for Jin to start the war?
Like the Tekken 3D movie they ruin the good aspects of Tekken with boring, uninteresting characters and completely bullshit which has nothing to do with the actual games. I personal only really liked the last part where the three Mishimas beat up themselves but that didn't last too long and they had to transform everyone into ugly demons and monsters.
Who's really in to that stuff?
The best part of Tekken is the fist to fist combat.
And Tekken 7 seems to go that route.
Tekken 4 might be the best Tekken story, it's serious, has some good ideas how to develop characters and the new ones are great too!
I can't believe that they thought it was a good idea to basically ruin Jin and his role in the Mishima saga.
He's ok not to kill both Mishimas when he had the chance because he thought his mother would be against it but it's fine to start WW3?
And then we have Lars who is completely unnecessary and plain boring and his sidekick Alisa who is obviously a fanservice android (and a badly designed one too) and does not fit at all in this and they somehow focused the story mode around those two...
And Azrael was one of the worst endboss bullshit characters ever in a fighting game.
And that thing was the main motivation for Jin to start the war?
Like the Tekken 3D movie they ruin the good aspects of Tekken with boring, uninteresting characters and completely bullshit which has nothing to do with the actual games. I personal only really liked the last part where the three Mishimas beat up themselves but that didn't last too long and they had to transform everyone into ugly demons and monsters.
Who's really in to that stuff?
The best part of Tekken is the fist to fist combat.
And Tekken 7 seems to go that route.
Tekken 4 might be the best Tekken story, it's serious, has some good ideas how to develop characters and the new ones are great too!
King, Armour King and Marduk have the best story and they didn't ruin them yet. Hopefully we can get more of that soon
Tekken's WWIII attract mode cinematics are really hype. Making sense of it can only make it worse.
Well, he's got more personality in his moveset than ever.
Well, he's got more personality in his moveset than ever.
The Horror the horror
Banned
Makoto Kanō, under GY, was more responsible for Metroid's birth as he was the creator of Samus Aran and Metroid. Together, those two would make Metroid II, of which Sakamoto played no part. Sakamoto deserves all the credit in the world for Super Metroid but he's not the father (mother?) of the series.
sixteen-bit
Member
Vanessa fell into a vat of bleach between VF4 and VF5
nelsonroyale
Member
Completely agreed OP. I thought his design was the right kind of badass when I was younger...and I liked his backstory. But they royally mucked it up with a poorly written and completely unnecessary twist to his character.
I lost interest in Tekken long ago, unfortunately. Tekken Tag was the last one I really enjoyed...
I lost interest in Tekken long ago, unfortunately. Tekken Tag was the last one I really enjoyed...
Counterpoint: GOAT version of Tifa.
Speaking of which, I remain (mostly) confident they won't ruin the character anymore than the fans have: there's a common mindset between fan-artists and doujin writers that consider the character to be significantly more timid and airheaded than how she was portrayed in the games (as well as exaggerating certain features where she wouldn't be able to even stand properly, let alone perform martial arts). Basically, full-on waifu.
Which is why I was totally on board with her depiction in World of Final Fantasy, where she's essentially Female Goku ("I want to go around the world and randomly fight things to improve my training!").
LordKasual
Banned
This is a simple answer but I honestly think Sonic the Hedgheog is as bad as it gets
They are so directionless with the character that they literally made "Classic" and "Modern" sonic two completely different entities.
The character doesn't even exist as a character anymore....He's now some meta, self-aware reminder that his past is full of dumpster fires, in games that have completely given up trying to be good on their own merits.
It's tragic man...I don't know any game series more pathetic than Sonic.
Tizoc
Member
Nah i'd say Jin got it worst
That is more your view of the character than SEGA's approach, or at least how the internet cnditioned you to see the character.
True but she's still very cool though, especially her fighting style.
Jimnymebob
Member
My problem with AC Cloud was the fact that the original version didn't explain what Geostigma was, aside from it made people's arms a bit dirty, and was apparently contagious.
So, he spent the entire film moping around about something that isn't explained at all.
The Blu-Ray version fixed that at least by showing that it was an illness, and showing people falling ill from it, but it still annoyed me that they used that version of Cloud for his subsequent appearances.
However, the problem with Cloud started with KH. I know he was clearly meant to be Vincent early in development, but no matter who he was supposed to be there, his character was awful.
Eh better than being a pastiche of Jun and Kazuya, Devil Jin got that covered anyways.
They also added like twenty more Mishimas.
And they still haven't even touched on Asuka's blood ties to Jin from his mother's side. I don't think they ever even met aside from her ending in Tekken 5.
Where's my story mode that focuses on Asuka and Lili? That'd be a heck of a lot more interesting (plus lots more boob groping).
He has his three prior adventures outlined in his mother's binder he finds as a youth. It completely retconned out any agency he had in setting up the other games and has him following a pre-destined path.
Edit: His casual knowledge of Ancient Spanish in the first game -
he was an urchin in Cartagena as an adolescent hunting Spanish antiquities.
WhateverItTakes
Banned
Huey Emmerich went from Otacon but in the past to an irredeemable piece of shit. Dunno if he was 'ruined' considering it kinda made the narrative more interesting. And somehow made the Emmerich revelations in MGS2 somehow justified.
I absolutely loved that heel turn
and it improves MGSV's narrative significantly if you consider Huey the true villain and Skull Face the "White Whale"
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Liquid Snake/Ocelot from MGS2 to MGS4.
MGS4 spoilers.
MGS4 spoilers.
It's implied that in MGS2 it really is Liquid controlling him, and in between games he gets rid of the arm and replaces it, hypnotizing himself into thinking he's still Liquid. wat. This still gets me years later as the most unnecessary plot twist in gaming, adding in a layer to Ocelot's schemes that's not only ultimately completely extraneous but also completely ridiculous and unbelievable. It especially makes me angry because they went out of their way to explain the possession in MGS3, with Ocelot's father being The Sorrow. It also retroactively takes a lot of the "bang" out of the story, as you know it wasn't actually Liquid serving as the main antagonist.
There's so much more to having Liquid circumvent his aging and fight against his now-old brother than there is to Ocelot concocting some quadruple-layered plan because he reveres Big Boss.
There's so much more to having Liquid circumvent his aging and fight against his now-old brother than there is to Ocelot concocting some quadruple-layered plan because he reveres Big Boss.
LordKasual
Banned
This is how I view the character as a life-long fan. Every other Sonic game is practically a complete reboot of the franchise and universe that pretends to be canon for some reason.
Advent Children Complete did a MUUUUUUUCH better job of explaining Cloud's issues. But glaring problem with AC cloud is almost the exact same problem with Samus in Other M -- There was no indication in the previous material that he was ever struggling as severely with these issues as AC led everyone to believe.
It was too sudden...way too sudden. You can't come fresh off the heels of Cloud banging his hot childhood crush, defeating his life nemesis, and saving the world....and then dive headfirst into a tale of crippling depression with little to no build up or context as to what was causing the issue. The reason was definitely there, it's just that it was there for Cloud and ONLY Cloud, and so the whole movie it just feels like they retconned his personality.
And it was only made worse when every single depiction of the character afterwards was this brooding, monotone, boring guy pretending to be Cloud
NO
Who even IS this character?
Because he isn't Ocelot.
I'm sure nanomachines were floating through Liquid's blood. What if they retained traces of his psyche and imposed them onto their host?
Metal Gear's fuckin' nuts.
I thought everyone loves Zodd. He has his old costume in anyway
The Case of Tifa short story was absolutely essential reading and perfectly shows the transition from post-game Cloud to AC Cloud.
That was probably the biggest problem about AC: the required backstories to understand all the character changes and motivations.
Complete corrected this with additional scenes as well as animating Case of Denzel, but they really needed to reference Case of Tifa as well. I would have given anything for that to have been animated.
It doubly hurts that it's also where you see Cloud and Tifa in their most romantic depiction in any canon material.
LordKasual
Banned
I...don't even know what you're talking about lol. Case of Tifa? Case of Denzel?
Somewhere around that time period Square Enix got the bright idea of crafting stories where nothing makes sense unless you go well out of the scope of whatever you're playing/watching to understand it
Kingdom Hearts, FFXIII, Advent Children, FFXV....
Since XV was written back during that age, hopefully that is the last Square title that suffers from this blunder.
Interfectum
Member
Ocelot in MGS5 and emo-Cloud.
Err... no.
The whole point was to dupe the Patriots system by throwing something completely left field at them. This also triggered their predicted response of trying to use foxdie again because they believed he was in fact Liquid.
It's basically the exact kind of scheme that I would expect someone like Ocelot to come up with, messing with everyone till the end.
TeamLeftMatch
Member
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
This is very common in Japanese media. Westerners are very averse to supplemental material being important whereas it seems to be a popular method of world building in Japan. The problem is when the stories are hidden away or not translated... usually they're advertised in some way in Japan, where companies in the west think they won't catch on with their audience or aren't important. I can't even recall if all of the stories for AC were translated or not.
I know why he did it, it has an in-universe justification. But it could have easily been written another way and the creative decision to make Liquid Ocelot
not Liquid
Teuoxton
Member
The word you meant to use was canon I presume.
Other M is a complete wreck. The manga did more for Ridley's, Samus' and Adam's personalities than M:OM
DerZuhälter
Member
They brought back the GOAT outfit in T7 so it's okay.
I feel like Tekken 4 ruined Jin more to me than his story in Tekken 6.
Changing his complete fight style from 3 to 4 was terrible.
Shadow Ranger
Member
Yep, they threw Jin into a volcano.
I don't even recall him pretending, actually. Guess it was that bloody bad.
Anyway, I feel Kazuya is the one that has a chance at redemption these days.
I don't even recall him pretending, actually. Guess it was that bloody bad.
Anyway, I feel Kazuya is the one that has a chance at redemption these days.
Who would have ever guessed that the characters from Killer Instinct would end up in better shape than Banjo and Conker.
I never got this. Old and new Dante are both cringy Edgelords, only that one is younger. Do people really think that Dante has become more of an Emo because he lost his grey hair and red coat? It doesn't make any sense.
Not at all, it makes way more sense.
Most people would think that you have no idea what you are talking about if the only differences between them that you see are the coat and hair.
Kor of Memory
Member
I remember reading them. What never did make it over here was "Before Crisis" The chapter-based cell phone game that involved the Turks and a newly started AVALANCHE.
I think it took place about 5 years before the main game. IIRC it has a lot of interesting things about Rufus and the entire ShinRa dynamic.
Agreed wholeheartedly. I loved Jin and his story introduction in 3. His love for his mother and him not willing to kill. All of the sudden out of nowhere be starts a war in tekken 6 and kills millions of fucking people. Like what the fuck. And plot twist. Its to get rid of the devil gene. Its all okay because its for me me me. I don't recall yo mama raising you that way. Then again, daddy did bail on you, and mama was raising you in a forest apparently or something. And we get the best duo in gaming history, Lars and Alisa. /s
I have no faith in tekken 7 story.
I have no faith in tekken 7 story.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Cloud is a good choice, but I feel like Squall gets it even worse. Most people only remember him for his standoffish persona in disc 1 and that photoshopped "whatever" picture. The translation made him seem more uncaring than he was supposed to, as well. Nobody ever seems to remember his development into a caring leader, his internal thoughts, or his romance with Rinoa. He wasn't even flanderized in supplemental material - his "Leon" persona in KH was exactly what I imagined his older self becoming. People still remember him falsely, though.
It's a matter of opinion, I suppose.
Eh, we'll have to agree to disagree, then. It makes sense, sure, but it's still overly convoluted (IMO) and
would have worked better if Ocelot factored the possession into his plan somehow. I just don't like the idea of writing off a concept introduced and teased so extensively at the end of a previous game so easily, and I also like Liquid a lot as a character and was very psyched to see him take center stage again in 4.
BC is great. It has my favorite extended FFVII universe story. It ties in directly with Crisis Core, too, with events happening concurrently and even overlapping at times.
5million times better than what we got in MGS4.