64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
they probably think shes justified in being pissed for being paid so low
just because someone else has it harder doesnt mean they cant sympathize.
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Hellena Taylor (Voice of Bayonetta) Describes How She was Offered only $4,000 USD to Voice Her Again in Bayonetta 3.
just because someone else has it harder doesnt mean they cant sympathize.
Majima Everywhere System
Member
We are all doing it, bite your tongue. The new bayo music is garbage as well. Hold on tight, 7.5 incoming.
A successful boycott could lead to budget cuts which could lead to layoffs. The company loses money: the point of boycotting in the first place. This is almost common sense.
... yeah? That's literally what she's saying.
schaft0620
Member
Platinum is not going to survive a successful full boycott of Bayonetta without help from China, Saudi Arabia, Xbox or PlayStation.
If this + Babylon's Fall makes them undesirable for Xbox they will be gone for sure.
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jigglet
Banned
Not much. It’s a niche game that was effectively dumped by the original publisher and picked up by a new publisher more to satiate hardcore gamers than as a revenue driver. It’s a portfolio diversity tick box rather than a serious trophy game for the current publisher.
That’s not to disparage the game. I bet it’s tier 1 level quality. But I’m just being honest about how and why it exists.
Labolas
Member
I can't really side with her over what is seemingly dispute over money. Sure, she has a right to pissed about it. But at the end of the day, it's over money. If they were disparaging her character or made scathing remarks about her, then Nintendo should be given shit over this. If this boycott is successful in any way this could spell the end of Platinum and Bayonetta. I hope getting sympathy on twitter is worth it.
But I'm still getting the game regardless. I'm not huge in VAs to begin with, and it isn't a determining factor of buying and playing a videogame.
But I'm still getting the game regardless. I'm not huge in VAs to begin with, and it isn't a determining factor of buying and playing a videogame.
Hardensoul
Gold Member
This is what I’ve been reading about the story, multiple Bayonettas’.
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
also there's an easy way to boycott bayo 3 while still getting to play the game.... it's called a used copy.
I don't care if the programmers, artists, director etc work harder, everyone should get paid because it's a video game they're making. It's the hardest form of media you have to make and people are out here downplaying the work just to whiteknight for fucking Nintendo and Platinum.
God, the rampant fanboyism here at times genuinely pisses me the fuck off. Why can't we all just agree on SOMETHING?
I don't care if the programmers, artists, director etc work harder, everyone should get paid because it's a video game they're making. It's the hardest form of media you have to make and people are out here downplaying the work just to whiteknight for fucking Nintendo and Platinum.
God, the rampant fanboyism here at times genuinely pisses me the fuck off. Why can't we all just agree on SOMETHING?
daveonezero
Banned
She was going to get paid. She decided it wasn’t worth her time.
It’s not like they forced her to do the work and no pay her. She is the one that denied the offer.
Hardensoul
Gold Member
Does not compute! You would rather simp for 1 VA bit fuck all the others who worked on this game?
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
Nope, I'm fan of Bayonetta series, I'm not gonna boycott or get it used over voice acting.
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
that's not even close to what i said. i said EVERYONE should get paid. 4000 dollars for a specific specialized voice that made the character in a series that's SELF TITLED AFTER THE CHARACTER is fucking pennies.
do yall not see the current economy we're living in? 4000 dollars would hardly be able to pay for rent in gigantic cities like Los Angeles. and that's not even counting how much they'd lose from taxes.
no disadvantage to getting it used, you get the game for cheaper and its the exact same experience. you just don't support platinum for lowballing their VAs.
it could have been worse, i could have mentioned the 'other' method
Hardensoul
Gold Member
Had had special edition preorder at both GameStop and Bestbuy. Was going to return one later but I’ll just give it to my nephew now!
Megatron
Member
Lol. Then why did you mention that you also wouldn’t take a job for less than market value? You weren’t in her situation then either so why did you comment on that? Can’t have it both way.
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
What about devs who worked their ass for this game and has nothing to do with this controversy? Fuck them?
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64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
like the money you paid for the game would go to them and not the executives up top who had nothing to do with the game anyways
Hardensoul
Gold Member
Then you shouldn’t have put this in “I don't care if the programmers, artists, director etc work harder”
Not all of us are white knighting Platinum/Nintendo. We take issues on what she said in all her 3 videos. Did you watch all of them?
She called for boycott which hurts the other workers and also her VA colleague. Also took aim at her replacement Jennifer Hale.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
I can't comment without knowing how much work was required or if there are multiple bayinettas but if their isn't and she is literally the voice actor for such an iconic character she should be getting a serious chunk in my opinion. 4 grand should be what you get paid for a little cameo appearance in something.
You can't compare a voice actor of the main protagonist vs the developers etc. Its completely different.
It's like saying how come these animators aren't getting paid as much Steve carrel in this new despicable me movie.
Sure it's not Hollywood but bayonetta is a stand out character in gaming. She helped build that character and make it as iconic as it is today.
She should get like half a years wage or a years wage in my opinion. Maybe some tiny royalties on the back end or something. I dunno.
You can't compare a voice actor of the main protagonist vs the developers etc. Its completely different.
It's like saying how come these animators aren't getting paid as much Steve carrel in this new despicable me movie.
Sure it's not Hollywood but bayonetta is a stand out character in gaming. She helped build that character and make it as iconic as it is today.
She should get like half a years wage or a years wage in my opinion. Maybe some tiny royalties on the back end or something. I dunno.
Mibu no ookami
Member
She's opened herself up to serious damages, not only did she break her NDA but by calling for a boycott, Nintendo et all can seek compensation for damages for reduced sales/canceled pre-orders and she has no leg to stand on that she didn't intend for her comments to damage their sales, when that is specifically what she asked for.
As I've said this reeks of mental illness to me.
She's destroyed her career AND left herself open to financial damages. Not a great combination after not working for 8 years, which could in and of itself be related to mental illness. Definitely a red flag.
As I've said this reeks of mental illness to me.
She's destroyed her career AND left herself open to financial damages. Not a great combination after not working for 8 years, which could in and of itself be related to mental illness. Definitely a red flag.
nikolino840
Member
Doesn't matter how many hours....i bet that i work more hours then her but she is a professionist and i don't qualify a professionist in my work
https://m.imdb.com/name/nm0773321/
itsjustJEFF
Member
Is that the market rate... if so, that's ROUGH! She's been a part of two of some of the biggest games. At this point, she should get a "royalty" for contributing to the identity of this game, at least I feel so. At least MORE than 4K especially with how much shes been a part of the success of the first two games. Yes, you can make the argument that everyone else connected to the development of the game SHOULD get paid a lot more of working on such a SUCCESSFUL game, as they should... but this is the real world, those ppl don't get the credit. A lot of times the ppl in the "spotlight" do... as such, she should get paid more than 4K. How much more? I have no ideal. Maybe check in with Troy Baker and Nolan North LOL
Jsisto
Member
She’s not entitled to shit and doesn’t own the character. I’m sure she can get other work. It was not at all certain this game would ever even be made in the first place. Her shot at the new VA about not being able to claim she’s the voice of Bayonetta is petty and literally not true. Jennifer Hale IS now the voice of Bayonetta, whether you like it or not. It’s also entirely possible based on what we’ve seen that the Bayonetta we play as is not the same one and it was an entirely creative decision. Perhaps they offered her a smaller role as the original Bayonetta. We don’t know at this point but it’s entirely possible and she’ll have egg on her face if it turns out to be true.
papersleeves
Member
I absolutely wouldn't take a job for less than market value so I perfectly understand her reasoning. Now, I wouldn't complain on social media but then again this comment is based on my personal experience. I didn't have to face her situation, you know, working for a company for a couple of contracts, suddenly getting lowballed for a third contract, refusing, keeping my mouth shut about it and then having said company apparently lies to the media about the reason I am not working with them anymore. How is this so hard to understand?
TLZ
Banned
No?
Rhazer Fusion
Member
Yeah, that’s an insultingly a low offer. In all fairness, if people decide to boycott Bayonetta 3 over this situation, shouldn’t they boycott SF6 as well? Didn’t the voice actor for Ken and Dante get fired for some tweets or something?
LegendOfKage
Gold Member
I just know, as a customer, her value in regards to my interest in Bayonetta sequels is worth a lot more than $4,000. Perhaps that's actually a typical price in this industry for someone in her situation, but just because it's accepted as the norm doesn't mean it should be, and it doesn't mean that's actually what she's worth to the project.
I will give you that Bayonetta is a niche title that generally doesn't sell a lot of copies when compared to many games, but especially as a protagonist in a sequel, that strikes me as absurdly low.
You're also right that we can't make judgements without knowing the details, but that's a two way street. Maybe they didn't want to work with her again for whatever reason, but if that was the case they shouldn't have pretended otherwise. And I'm not going to just assume that she was difficult to work with, because that would just be bad faith in the opposite direction. The only real piece of objective information we have is $4000, and I think that sounds way too low for the third game in a series.
Robb
Gold Member
Not even that. She got the deal offered, declined, and Platinum went with someone else instead.
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OldBoyGamer
Banned
My takeaway from this is that whoever is responsible for the vo wanted to go in a different direction. For whatever reason.
That decision may or may not be supported by devs lower down the chain. But I assume it was the GD who made this call.
They knew the offer would be turned down and they get to use a new VA - the one they want.
Exclosure
I am not a huge Bayonetta fan. I like the games. But I’m not married to the actress. So I’ma little biased terms of I don’t care.
Edit. Just to add. The $4000 offer might - MIGHT - have been a cultural thing. Seems to me they wanted a different VA. But didn’t want to tell her ‘we don’t like the way you do it’. So they offered a nominal amount knowing she would turn it down.
If my understanding of that culture is correct. That would have been the way of doing it so that everyone comes out of it with good face.
Nintendo: we made her an offer but she turned it down. Which is absolutely her right to do so.
VA: they made me an offer but I turned it down. Which is absolutely my right to do so.
That my take anyway.
Unfortunately the devs didn’t take into account the hurt feelings of an actress who loved the role, put everything she had into it and believes she is the soul of the characters voice.
Edit 2: the press release from the devs supports my hypothesis - ‘we ‘REALLY’ wanted her to play the role. But she couldn’t do it for various reasons’.
That decision may or may not be supported by devs lower down the chain. But I assume it was the GD who made this call.
They knew the offer would be turned down and they get to use a new VA - the one they want.
Exclosure
I am not a huge Bayonetta fan. I like the games. But I’m not married to the actress. So I’ma little biased terms of I don’t care.
Edit. Just to add. The $4000 offer might - MIGHT - have been a cultural thing. Seems to me they wanted a different VA. But didn’t want to tell her ‘we don’t like the way you do it’. So they offered a nominal amount knowing she would turn it down.
If my understanding of that culture is correct. That would have been the way of doing it so that everyone comes out of it with good face.
Nintendo: we made her an offer but she turned it down. Which is absolutely her right to do so.
VA: they made me an offer but I turned it down. Which is absolutely my right to do so.
That my take anyway.
Unfortunately the devs didn’t take into account the hurt feelings of an actress who loved the role, put everything she had into it and believes she is the soul of the characters voice.
Edit 2: the press release from the devs supports my hypothesis - ‘we ‘REALLY’ wanted her to play the role. But she couldn’t do it for various reasons’.
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Slothbeing1209
Member
The situations are a bit incomparable. But it makes the entire 4000$ offer to Taylor even more ridiculous.
nikolino840
Member
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Kenpachii
Member
And that's the reason she got offered 4k, she's simple not worth more to them.
This isn't Nintendo. Nintendo doesn't interfere with whoever is doing the VO for a third party game.
I do understand that 4000 dollar isnt much however (and i can be wrong about this)
1. Most vocals are been paid about that much kind of money from what i have seen. Its not a nintendo thing.
2. How long would it take to vocal everything? May 10 full workdays? Not even a month.
While devs have worked years and years on this game. So from that perspective, 4000 is a lot.
3. Praktisch something isnt something that should taken into account. Its the same for hired singers who are even less paid. Or when im looking to my job as an ITer, i did learn everything myself.
Its not fair the say: this game brings that amount of money, so i ecpect to be payed more. Its not like she would deliver a part of her money if the game would be a distaster in sales.
Im just looking this compared to other developers working on the game how it would be fair to them...
Please correct me if im wrong on this. Just a though.
1. Most vocals are been paid about that much kind of money from what i have seen. Its not a nintendo thing.
2. How long would it take to vocal everything? May 10 full workdays? Not even a month.
While devs have worked years and years on this game. So from that perspective, 4000 is a lot.
3. Praktisch something isnt something that should taken into account. Its the same for hired singers who are even less paid. Or when im looking to my job as an ITer, i did learn everything myself.
Its not fair the say: this game brings that amount of money, so i ecpect to be payed more. Its not like she would deliver a part of her money if the game would be a distaster in sales.
Im just looking this compared to other developers working on the game how it would be fair to them...
Please correct me if im wrong on this. Just a though.
Gambit2483
Member
Certain production teams value their Japanese voice actors way more than their English ones which is why they can do Hayter and Taylor so dirty despite playing long established highly acclaimed roles.
She was intentionally lowballed so they could get a "more famous" voice actor, or so it seems. That's the real problem here. Good to see the Bayonetta haters and shit kickers are still in salty form on Gaf tho.
LegendOfKage
Gold Member
I didn't even think about the fact that YongYea would of course want to cover this story. His video should be especially interesting, considering he has experience with both voice acting and criticizing game publishers.
TheGecko
Banned
I'd rather stick a hot metal rod up my arse than listen to that monotone boring bastard.
MrTentakel
Member
It would be so nice to give a reference to us normalos. I have no idea what 4.000US$ means.
How many lines of dialogue, how much recording time?
Or in layman terms: What´s the hourly wage?
How many lines of dialogue, how much recording time?
Or in layman terms: What´s the hourly wage?
Gambit2483
Member
Which is insanely disrespectful considering she brought that character to life and sustained its image ad popularity over a span of 10 years.
That's like offering RDJ to play the Ironman 3 only 100k and telling him they'll just get someone else to replace him no big deal.
They don't pull this shit with their Japanese voice actors.
Kamina
Golden Boy
I feel like we are tapping too much in the dark here.
-How many lines did she speak in Bayo 1 and 2?
-What is the average time needed to record these lines?
-What is her average rate expected to be?
To me this smells like maybe she wanted so much more that they decided to cast someone else.
-How many lines did she speak in Bayo 1 and 2?
-What is the average time needed to record these lines?
-What is her average rate expected to be?
To me this smells like maybe she wanted so much more that they decided to cast someone else.
It’s an exclusive on their platform …
Sakura
Member
Saying she is the protagonist of the game doesn't mean anything to me.
How many hours of work? How many lines?
What is the typical going rate for this?
Without that information how can I possibly know whether 4k is insultingly low or not?
How much did she make for the other games? How much voice work was required in those games versus Bayo 3?
If it was truly so incredibly low, then why would other VA's have no problem accepting?
There is way too little information.
So how could a lowball offer for Bayo 3 make you think you would be on the streets? What were you doing up until now?
What if they never made a Bayo 3?
Sounds all like nonsense to me. Trying to make a fuss on Twitter to get more money.
How many hours of work? How many lines?
What is the typical going rate for this?
Without that information how can I possibly know whether 4k is insultingly low or not?
How much did she make for the other games? How much voice work was required in those games versus Bayo 3?
If it was truly so incredibly low, then why would other VA's have no problem accepting?
There is way too little information.
All they did was make you an offer. X amount of money for Y amount of work. How can this possibly be immoral? If you don't like the offer then... just say no? Which you did?
Yet you are going to shit on the voice actor who replaced you?
You haven't been doing any work the last 8 years (for voice acting as far as I can tell).
So how could a lowball offer for Bayo 3 make you think you would be on the streets? What were you doing up until now?
What if they never made a Bayo 3?
Sounds all like nonsense to me. Trying to make a fuss on Twitter to get more money.
Gambit2483
Member
Their initial offer was LESS than $4k (flat rate)...
As an established actor your worth does not boil down to a freaking time sheet. In an MCU movie, RDJ can be paid more for just doing 2 scenes than an actor who's in the ENTIRE film.
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LegendOfKage
Gold Member
If that's the case, it needs to be made very clear to those certain production teams that English speaking customers do not find the replacement of established voice actors to be remotely acceptable. I believe I saw somewhere that Hallena Taylor's video already has more views than the game's official trailer, and that's a start.
This needs to be the closest thing to a Cyberpunk 2077 situation that the voice acting world will ever see. Not that they're even close to comparable otherwise. I just mean when someone suggests not hiring the established voice actor, someone else should be able to say "oh no, we don't want another Bayonetta 3 on our hands!"
And even going beyond the issue of what is and isn't fair to pay a voice actor for their time, people need to also think of what this means as a customer. We're essentially being told "You're not getting the original voice for Bayonetta in this new game, because we didn't think it was worth anything more than 4000 dollars to try to secure her performance."
Rykan
Member
Yes we do. Nobody made a big deal about the changing of voice actors until they found the "controversial" reasoning behind it. Changing of voice actors is both common and its rarely met with controversy. I'd also hardly consider two games an established voice actor.
gradient
Resident Cheap Arse
No she didn't. The creatives, developers and marketers at Platinum created that character, built all of the world and lore around her, built every facet of her character including defining the mannerisms and accent for which they then went out and cast a contractor to speak the lines that the writers at platinum had written.
She brought a voicing style that they decided upon and sought out. What she brought was a contracted skill that, unfortunately for her and most voice actors, is not unique nor irreplacable. Don't be so blind and/or disprespectful to the people who actually did the creative work, made the character and worked hard to keep the series going by attributing their work to someone who did nothing more than speak the lines that were given to her.
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