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[Maxim726X]

I mean, if its because she's a woman, then yeah. But, then there's this:
https://youtu.be/l-TCsrec3w4

Umm ok then. History really shows a lot of her right leaning choices. It is what it is.

Hahaha. How many times does this need to be said??

She aligns with him on over 90% of bills/issues.

That's apparently enough to swing from socialist savior to warhawking Reganist?

What planet are we living on?

I don't... I don't get it.

If he doesn't utilize the party system in any way, shape or form and doesn't support other liberals, what exactly do you think a Bernie Sanders presidency will accomplish?

Guess what? A lot of his supporters don't get it either. So, no need to feel lonely on that.

 

[Fenderputty]

A new democratic party needs to happen. I don't want to see Bernie's ideals go away.

I really wish the U.S elections were left wing (Hillary) vs Socialism (Bernie). Not left wing vs extreme right wing (Drumpf/Cruz).

I wish reality wasn't reality sometimes to.

As they say though, "wish in one hand shit in the other, see which fills up first"

 

[ItWillGetBetter]

Well DUH.

 

[LCGeek]

It worked for Obama, but then he was a big Democratic supporter long before his Presidential run.

There's a reason he's POTUS and she's trying to be. She really should've upped her game after 2k8 I feel it only got slightly better while she is horrid on PR or getting people interested.

I still think she is the candidate with the best win chances on any side.

 

[Good Job Bob]

Taking the focus off of him, he has millions of supporters who are certainly Democrats and given how so many of them are young those are the people who will be shaping the party in years to come.

 

[marrec]

He's laid out parts of his plans, and if he ever got in to office he'd have an army of the world's best advisors and experts available to him to work these things out. It's utterly defeatist and spectacularly anti progressive to just automatically assume these things can't be done, or can't be improved, especially when a huge chunk of the world already does. Of course the anti progressive scaremongers will then tell you America is different to Europe and other countries, and that the same rules and maths don't apply, that instead you ought to buckle down and accept a perpetual cycle of shit, or instead accept pathetically incremental improvements that really don't make much difference in the grand scheme of things.

The "perpetual cycle of shit" has led to our country slowly moving to the left year after year.

The idea that within a single 4 year presidential cycle we could somehow match european socialism is childish.

 

[ivysaur12]

Seriously. Her 17th birthday was shortly before election day. At age 16 I would've called myself a Republican. She campaigned for George McGovern for crying out loud.

When you attack her with "lol she was a Goldwater girl!" it really calls into question if you actually care about these issues in the election or just want to use uninformed hyperbole because you're convinced that Hillary is a secret Republican no matter what.

 

[hawk2025]

He's laid out parts of his plans, and if he ever got in to office he'd have an army of the world's best advisors and experts available to him to work these things out. It's utterly defeatist and spectacularly anti progressive to just automatically assume these things can't be done, or can't be improved, especially when a huge chunk of the world already does. Of course the anti progressive scaremongers will then tell you America is different to Europe and other countries, and that the same rules and maths don't apply, that instead you ought to buckle down and accept a perpetual cycle of shit, or instead accept pathetically incremental improvements that really don't make much difference in the grand scheme of things.

He already lambasted the world's best advisors and experts and rallied behind someone that produced a now proven to be flawed study in how the economy could grow over the next eight years.

That's not a good sign.

 

[UltimaPooh]

Well duh.

 

[Flo_Evans]

His whole plan revolves around retaking the House and the Senate. How else are smaller name candidates going to break through big Republican states and names if they can't get the funding?

His whole plan revolves around removing money for favors from politics.

 

[Armaros]

I think he will remain a Democrat after the election.

Taking the focus off of him, he has millions of supporters who are certainly Democrats and given how so many of them are young those are the people who will be shaping the party in years to come.

He already signed up for reelection in Vermont as an Independant.

 

[Abounder]

If Dems really cared about downticket votes they wouldn't be parading around Debbie Wasserman Schultz. Bernie is the kick in the ass that the DNC needs

Does this mean you think that the Repubs will be better for Bernie and his beliefs/progressive views?

No but it does showcase the 2 party system and all of its strengths and weaknesses

 

[B-Dubs]

His whole plan revolves around removing money for favors from politics.

Bribery is already illegal. Campaign finance reform is different than bribery.

 

[Mael]

A new democratic party needs to happen. I don't want to see Bernie's ideals go away.

I really wish the U.S elections were left wing (Hillary) vs Socialism (Bernie). Not left wing vs extreme right wing (Drumpf/Cruz).

His ideals wouldn't be getting away if he was campaigning for likeminded individuals in local elections?
It's not Clinton's job to make sure people who support Sanders platform get to be elected.

 

[ivysaur12]

His whole plan revolves around removing money for favors from politics.

It's not about favors. It's about electing like-minded people to politics and raising money for them, one of the most important aspects of being president.

If he's not willing to do that, that's personally disqualifying.

 

[Josh5890]

I don't... I don't get it.

If he doesn't utilize the party system in any way, shape or form and doesn't support other liberals, what exactly do you think a Bernie Sanders presidency will accomplish?

Something.....Something..... free college and debt forgiveness

 

[Sianos]

Ah yes. Nearly identical voting records... Yet one is moderately left, the other a centrist.

Sorry, that doesn't make any goddamn sense.

And a significant difference between the two is their voting record on gun control as well...

Snark in light of his recent dissapointments aside, I appreciate Bernie attempting to help drag the center of discourse over to the left on most issues, but what I would really appreciate is if his "political revolution" would actually manifest in downticket races.

Supporting one charismatic dude for president and ignoring down ticket races - such as an important Wisconsin Supreme Court election, for one - isn't a revolution at all: it's business as usual.

 

[legacyzero]

And your history shows you have no idea what you're talking about. But please share your mountains of evidence. They will barely fill a cabinet compared to the library showing you're wrong.

YouTube has A LOT of example. I spent a lot of time catching uo. Sure she has a lot of left leaning stuff too. Thats awesome. Not taking that away from her.

But when she FLIPS from a previous view that is clearly right leaning to suit the race she's in now (because Bernie pushed her that direction) is it suddenly ok now?

 

[phanphare]

is that supposed to be a bad thing or something?

 

[FelixOrion]

Of course not, he's of the socialist party.

Lol

If anything, he's most closely associated with the Vermont Progressive Party, a third party in Vermont that has a handful of seats in the Vermont legislature and originated during Bernie's run for mayor of Burlington (though he's never been a member with them either; he was before his mayorship leader of the far-left Liberty Union Party).

 

[Josh5890]

Bribery is already illegal.

So is recreational marijuana in most states but happens daily.

 

[Maxim726X]

I think he will remain a Democrat after the election.

Taking the focus off of him, he has millions of supporters who are certainly Democrats and given how so many of them are young those are the people who will be shaping the party in years to come.

Well, you'd be wrong.

He's running as independent again.

He's laid out parts of his plans, and if he ever got in to office he'd have an army of the world's best advisors and experts available to him to work these things out. It's utterly defeatist and spectacularly anti progressive to just automatically assume these things can't be done, or can't be improved, especially when a huge chunk of the world already does. Of course the anti progressive scaremongers will then tell you America is different to Europe and other countries, and that the same rules and maths don't apply, that instead you ought to buckle down and accept a perpetual cycle of shit, or instead accept pathetically incremental improvements that really don't make nearly enough of a difference in the grand scheme of things.

Oh, okay. So he has a team. Can this team get bills through Congress? Hopefully they're Wizards or some shit, because I don't know how he's going to pass a fucking thing without a majority.

 

[Mael]

Bribery is already illegal. Campaign finance reform is different than bribery.

He's going to make it super illegal, give mariage to gay people as well as free college and free healthcare.

 

[FrontalMonk]

His whole plan revolves around removing money for favors from politics.

...it's not money for favors though. It's making it so people who already agree with you and want to support your ideas don't lose their congressional seats to people who do not agree with you.

how is he supposed to actually accomplish anything legislatively if none of his bills get any traction in congress?

 

[Steel]

He wants a full blown middle east invasion to stomp out ISIS as well as war with Iran.

So...

War against ISIS in Syria and Iraq. War with Iran. Likely additional fragmented conflicts stemming from these wars in Israel. High potential for additional conflicts in northern Africa, Pakistan, re-intervention into Afghanistan, etc. basically anywhere with Islamic governance.

The only thing keeping it from full evangelical crusade time is the fact that U.S. allies hold Jerusalem, so "Capture the Holy City" can't be used as a rallying cry.

As bad as that, and a slew of his other policies, and as abhorrent as he is on social issues is he's not in favor of full torture and killing everyone in the country that's not christian(well, at least not on a policy level even if I think he'd enjoy it on a personal level).

Now, I'm starting to feel like gagging even vaguely defending Cruz, so could we drop this?

 

[Box of Kittens]

Bernie's ideals die at the hands of the GOP judiciary for at least a few decades if things go awry this November.

What part of this do folks not comprehend?

The argument I'm now seeing is that talking about the importance of the Supreme Court is just "hyperbole" and "fearmongering."

As though the Supreme Court isn't responsible for Citizens United, gutting the Voting Rights Act, etc.

 

[JesseEwiak]

YouTube has A LOT of example. I spent a lot of time catching uo. Sure she has a lot of left leaning stuff too. Thats awesome. Not taking that away from her.

But when she FLIPS from a previous view that is clearly right leaning to suit the race she's in now (because Bernie pushed her that direction) is it suddenly ok now?

LBJ went from a Dixiecrat that other Civil Rights Democrat's were scared of being on the ticket w/ JFK to making MLK cry within a decade. People change. That's not a bad thing. Not everybody can be right from day one like Saint Bernard of Burlington.

 

[Good Job Bob]

He already signed up for reelection in Vermont as an Independant.

Well, you'd be wrong.

He's running as independent again.

Thanks for the heads up.

 

[semisonic]

YouTube has A LOT of example.

I think I found your problem.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

is that supposed to be a bad thing or something?

Yes. Bernie is DOA without strong down ticket support.

 

[Balphon]

Clinton has been a Democratic Party operative for decades and obviously has a vested interest in its structure and operation that Sanders wouldn't.

Though correct, I'm not sure if it's a smart thing for her to say, since I don't know if it does anything other than make a bad headline.

 

[Meowster]

LBJ went from a Dixiecrat that other Civil Rights Democrat's were scared of being on the ticket w/ JFK to making MLK cry within a decade. People change. That's not a bad thing. Not everybody can be right from day one like Saint Bernard of Burlington.

People adapting and changing has become a negative it seems. That has always been a net positive to me.

 

[kirblar]

And in return taking away full-time jobs that people used to rely on to live and support their families, and now they have to work two or three part time jobs? It has happened to a few people that I know of at least.

This is a problem with the US's employment-linked health insurance system, not the law, which is a first step towards severing that link.

 

[nitekrawlwer]

He's laid out parts of his plans, and if he ever got in to office he'd have an army of the world's best advisors and experts available to him to work these things out. It's utterly defeatist and spectacularly anti progressive to just automatically assume these things can't be done, or can't be improved, especially when a huge chunk of the world already does. Of course the anti progressive scaremongers will then tell you America is different to Europe and other countries, and that the same rules and maths don't apply, that instead you ought to buckle down and accept a perpetual cycle of shit, or instead accept pathetically incremental improvements that really don't make nearly enough of a difference in the grand scheme of things.

You know nothing has prevented him from reaching out and receiving such help already. That doesn't require being POTUS to do. I mean look at his opponent.

 

[lenovox1]

He's laid out parts of his plans, and if he ever got in to office he'd have an army of the world's best advisors and experts available to him to work these things out. It's utterly defeatist and spectacularly anti progressive to just automatically assume these things can't be done, or can't be improved, especially when a huge chunk of the world already does. Of course the anti progressive scaremongers will then tell you America is different to Europe and other countries, and that the same rules and maths don't apply, that instead you ought to buckle down and accept a perpetual cycle of shit, or instead accept pathetically incremental improvements that really don't make nearly enough of a difference in the grand scheme of things.

When you can copy and paste something that can be used as a defense for Trump, you need to take a step back on that position and examine it. You have to vet and place the candidate you support on a standard much, much higher standard than this.

But that's going beyond the point. The point is how is he going to get anything done when he is doing absolutely nothing for the down ticket races.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

The argument I'm now seeing is that talking about the importance of the Supreme Court is just "hyperbole" and "fearmongering."

As though the Supreme Court isn't responsible for Citizens United, gutting the Voting Rights Act, etc.

Liberals are often their own worst enemies when it comes to this stuff.

 

[Battersea Power Station]

Edit: I always get sucked into this nonsense. I am a weak man.

 

[User1608]

I wish they'd own it.

Come out and say it, Busters: "if I don't get my way in 2016, I'm happy with flushing 2020, 2024, and beyond down the shitter."

I'd have more respect if they'd own it.

They've really beeen unable to answer your statements.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

People adapting and changing has become a negative it seems. That has always been a net positive to me.

Obviously the best politicians are stubborn and double down even when faced with new information that might prove they are wrong.

If you don't hold the same beliefs for at least 50 years you might as well not even bother running for president.

 

[HylianTom]

The argument I'm now seeing is that talking about the importance of the Supreme Court is just "hyperbole" and "fearmongering."

As though the Supreme Court isn't responsible for Citizens United, gutting the Voting Rights Act, etc.

Did these folks all sleep through civic class on the day that checks & balances and judicial review were covered? These are fundamental governmental concepts, vital to the long-term viability of Bernie's proposals.. and yet they're met with shrugs? Amazing.

I really question whether folks are more about the man or more about what he's advocating. These aren't controversial or difficult to understand concepts; they're usually covered in middle school.

But in the meantime, we can enjoy the usual crickets.

 

[legacyzero]

I think I found your problem.

Headaches and vertigo galaore!

 

[kirblar]

The argument I'm now seeing is that talking about the importance of the Supreme Court is just "hyperbole" and "fearmongering."

As though the Supreme Court isn't responsible for Citizens United, gutting the Voting Rights Act, etc.

The people who see it this way are probably not personally getting disenfranchised by the Voting Rights act. Well, not yet, unless they're in Arizona.

 

[CrazyDude]

I wish they'd own it.

Come out and say it, Busters: "if I don't get my way in 2016, I'm happy with flushing 2020, 2024, and beyond down the shitter."

I'd have more respect if they'd own it.

I am betting these same people would turn on Bernie if did win the election after they figure out the he won't be able to do any of the things he promised. Two years in to his presidency they will call him a hack and a sell out because we still won't have universal health care, free college, and broken up banks.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

The people who see it this way are probably not personally getting disenfranchised by the Voting Rights act. Well, not yet, unless they're in Arizona.

Yea, but we all know Arizona's problems were the DNC trying to screw Bernie, those monsters!! It's all Hillary's fault!

 

[marrec]

Did these folks all sleep through civic class on the day that checks & balances and judicial review were covered? These are fundamental governmental concepts, vital to the long-term viability of Bernie's proposals.. and yet they're met with shrugs? Amazing.

I really question whether folks are more about the man or more about what he's advocating. These aren't controversial or difficult to understand concepts; they're usually covered in middle school.

But in the meantime, we can enjoy the usual crickets.

I'm not trying to be rude here, but I imagine most of these people haven't gotten to Civics class yet in their High School.

(when I say that, I mean people who brush off fears of a republican stacked Supreme Court)

 

[ISOM]

A Dem Presidential candidate concerns herself/himself of helping the downticket elect as many Dem Representatives as possible

Bernie doesn't care

Which is weird and ironic because he needs those democrats to enact his policies.

 

[Cipherr]

But that's going beyond the point. The point is how is he going to get anything done when he is doing absolutely nothing for the down ticket races.

The eternal questions that is always met with crickets and conveniently changed subjects when discussing this issue.

I'm just about at my wits end man.

I am betting these same people would turn on Bernie if did win the election after they figure out the he won't be able to do any of the things he promised. Two years in to his presidency they will call him a hack and a sell out because we still won't have universal health care, free college, and broken up banks.

Happened with Obama for sure. There were a lot of Obama voters that also didn't understand what it would take to do some of those things he wanted to do. Midterms came, noone showed up, then it was "Fuck Obama for not doing what he told me he would". /shrug

 

[NoblesseOblige]

YouTube has A LOT of example. I spent a lot of time catching uo. Sure she has a lot of left leaning stuff too. Thats awesome. Not taking that away from her.

But when she FLIPS from a previous view that is clearly right leaning to suit the race she's in now (because Bernie pushed her that direction) is it suddenly ok now?

Youtube. Proprietor of accuracy.

 

[seat]

But everyone else wonders the same of her.

Another spot on Count Dookkake post. I assume Hillary thinks she doesn't have to act like a Democrat anymore because Trump is so far out there and she thinks she has a solid lock on the nomination.

YAS QUEEN is slowly becoming OH NOES QUEEN!

 

[Quonny]

I never understood the flip-flop argument.

Against any candidate.

Don't people WANT a leader who is willing to listen and possibly change his/her mind on a topic after learning more about it?