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[MatrixReloaded101]

Guess people don't believe that devs will getting better with the ps5 hardware, So instead they want the hardware to brute force stuff like on PC. Like games still won't come out jank on a pro console too. But because people want to throw money instead of being patient we will likely see consoles become like cellphones, and you just hope the console you bought this year will be supported for more then two years.


Got to love consumerism.

They don’t understand that it’s not the hardware that’s the issue. PC has 4090 GPU’s and some games are still running like crap because publishers are shipping broken and unoptimized games.

A pro console feels like a cop out and it sets a bad precedent. Having to drop more money on a new “pro” console just to get the performance you were supposed to get with the base console is ridiculous.

But these same people will complain about Sony increasing prices without adding much value…. They will continue to increase prices and not increase the value because people will buy no matter what.

 

[Drizzlehell]

Sometimes it just comes down to because I have the means and I want it

If that’s not a good enough answer for some then the discussion ends

Well, you do you. But I am going to call this out as short-sighted regardless. Not to antagonise you but because it is what it is.

 

[Sethbacca]

They love giving companies money, their dream is all consoles get yearly updates like phones so they can buy them up like Apples. But also they're too dumb to use a PC where components do get yearly updates and will pretend there's something wrong with the platform/its users instead there


Half your post is about how easy it is in an attempt to put me down (I never said it's hard so good job agreeing by arguing mate) and yet you still can't "deal with it" so who's the "tard"? Also I'm not pcmr and never suggested such, just talking facts & truths that offend your very being apparently...

Maybe you should play on a treadmill because you sit all day at work apparently so it must suck to do the same thing on your off time, lmao. what a stupid fucking argument, oh no I use a PC at work so it can't possibly be used for entertainment, oh no, I can't connect/stream to TV and play, no!

My dude, you're the one who implied anyone who isn't PCMR is too stupid to begin with. You can act like you didn't, but it's literally there, in the quote.

To your second point, even if you connect your pc to your tv via hdmi, moonlight, whatever, you're still stuck maintaining and upgrading a pc, fucking with settings, and having to do shit other than simply sitting down to play. Convenience is a major selling point of consoles, the tradeoff of that is pure power. Stop trying to sell people PCMR when they want convenience.

 

[saintjules]

A few hundred bucks every 4-5 years is nothing lol.

It's also an optional upgrade. Either get it or don't it's that simple.

Those who want the best tech will upgrade.

Agreed. I don't hear this complaint when new GPUs are released every year.

 

[jroc74]

What I find fascinating is with the PS3, 360 getting a revision that just added a bigger hard drive was considered fine.

Even the new PS5...some may sell their current PS5 to get one. No issues.

But a Pro console....and some ppl start losing their minds...

I cannot wait for threads when the new Series X launches....let's see how that goes.

 

[Toots]

Because we're always one upgrade away from making the bullshots in engine gameplay trailers devs show us to sell us their games true.
Tragically, we'll always be one upgrade away.

 

[killatopak]

The real question is why are people bothered by its existence.

 

[Humdinger]

I'm not obsessed with Pro versions. I'm not even interested in them.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I don't think that there are many that truly are against it, but rather don't see a need for it.

For me it's simple, just like PS Portal, I wouldn't miss it if it wouldn't be released, but if it's there, I buy it.

You're a strange dude.

"I don't see a need, but I'll buy it."

Clearly, you do see a need if you'd buy it yourself. Just stop it.

 

[Bond007]

People like to get milked, always have. Especially in this industry.

 

[gooner4life_uk]

The 4090 is struggling to run new games at those sorts of settings, and nobody thinks the PS5 Pro is going to be more powerful than a $1600 GPU. You need to be realistic here.

Sorry what? the 4090 isn't struggling to run anything.

 

[Drizzlehell]

I'm not obsessed with Pro versions. I'm not even interested in them.

 

[diffusionx]

Sorry what? the 4090 isn't struggling to run anything.

The 4090 can’t run UE5 games natively at those settings, look it up. Of course you can turn on DLSS.

Immortals of Aveum cannot run at Native 4K/60fps on NVIDIA RTX 4090, even on Low Settings

Even the mighty NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 is unable to run Immortals of Aveum with 60fps at Native 4K... on LOW SETTINGS.

www.dsogaming.com

 

[Drizzlehell]

Sorry what? the 4090 isn't struggling to run anything.

I remember people complaining about Immortals of Aveum but then it could've just been those weirdos who consider anything that runs below 200 frames as literally unplayable because the game ran just fine on my 3070.

 

[gooner4life_uk]

The 4090 can’t run UE5 games natively at those settings, look it up. Of course you can turn on DLSS.

Immortals of Aveum cannot run at Native 4K/60fps on NVIDIA RTX 4090, even on Low Settings

Even the mighty NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 is unable to run Immortals of Aveum with 60fps at Native 4K... on LOW SETTINGS.

www.dsogaming.com

Don't just believe these websites who run benchmarks, my 4090 outperforms every benchmark I've seen and it's not even paired with DDR5 or the latest CPU.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Well, you do you. But I am going to call this out as short-sighted regardless. Not to antagonise you but because it is what it is.

So just so we are crystal clear you want others basing their buying decisions on how its going to affect you and if we don't its short sighted?

Got it

 

[Dream-Knife]

People like buying things.

Honestly since everything since x86, they need to make generations shorter. Release new standards back to 4-5 years like it used to be.

Pro consoles are still shackled to AMD, so don't expect great RT performance.

 

[Kindela]

Just because I don't like to flush money down the toilet doesn't mean that I can't afford things.

Didn't mean you can't afford the pro console, just that you don't want to buy it. Neither do I to be clear.
But your OT makes it sound like you don't want them to exist because you won't buy one and so no one should be able to.

Releasing them 3+ years into the console's cycle means the base version will most likely outsell the pro versions during the console's generation. Which means they will be the development base for all future games. The pro versions will most likely run them with higher resolutions, or have a performance mode where the base versions won't, that's pretty much it. Thinking devs will go out of their way to fully utilise yet another console is a bit optimistic. They can't be bothered to optimise for the consoles already out, and no one's going to pay them more to have additional features in the pro versions.

 

[Roxkis_ii]

If dev time is limited, having to optimize for two consoles means less optimization for each, compared to if a dev only has to for one console. So having a pro console will negatively affect base console owners.

Plus if devs have to keep the base console in mind, your not going to even get the best of a pro console anyhow.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

You're a strange dude.

"I don't see a need, but I'll buy it."

Clearly, you do see a need if you'd buy it yourself. Just stop it.

Nothing weird about it.

Not seeing a need for it doesn't exclude the fact that I would welcome a more powerful PS5 if Sony does decide to release one.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Nothing weird about it.

Not seeing a need for it doesn't exclude the fact that I would welcome a more powerful PS5 if Sony does decide to release one.

It actually does.

You would welcome a more powerful PS5, as would millions of others. It serves a need in delivering on what consumers want and generates my revenue and operating income for them.

That's literally the definition of meeting demand.

 

[Sethbacca]

People like buying things.

Honestly since everything since x86, they need to make generations shorter. Release new standards back to 4-5 years like it used to be.

Pro consoles are still shackled to AMD, so don't expect great RT performance.

The 8(ish) year console cycle was established when CPU releases were on a 3-5 year cycle and before GPUs. CPUs and GPUs are now on a cycle measured in months rather than years, so it makes sense console gens should be shorter. Honestly we should move away from the 4/4 Pro/5/5 Pro naming scheme and just start numbering based on year of release.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

It actually does.

You would welcome a more powerful PS5, as would millions of others. It serves a need in delivering on what consumers want and generates my revenue and operating income for them.

That's literally the definition of meeting demand.

How so?

Already said I wouldn't miss it if Sony decides to stick with just the regular PS5.
I also don't need an extra pair of sneakers, but if Nike releases a new pair of Air Max 90s that I like, why not buy them?

What's not to get about that? It's not complicated.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

How so?

Already said I wouldn't miss it if Sony decides to stick with just the regular PS5.
I also don't need an extra pair of sneakers, but if Nike releases a new pair of Air Max 90s that I like, why not buy them?

What's not to get about that? It's not complicated.

It sounds like you don't have any self-control. It's a you problem.

 

[WoJ]

Eh, I'm not the biggest fan of pro consoles only because I hate the idea that a "better" version of the hardware launched after the one I bought. But I'm not offended by it When this gen started lots of folks around here kept saying we'd have no need for pro versions this time around and I kind of bought into that and went ahead and got a PS5.

If there does end up being a pro version I may upgrade. As long as there is the option of a detachable disc drive I'll consider it.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

It sounds like you don't have any self-control. It's a you problem.

I actually have a lot of self-control, that's why I can casually buy a potential Pro.

What's weird is your inability to comprehend such simple concepts.
In fact, that makes me think you're someone who has more trouble to afford a Pro, since you it up in the first place.

 

[Drizzlehell]

So just so we are crystal clear you want others basing their buying decisions on how its going to affect you and if we don't its short sighted?

Got it

Just do what I say and you'll be good.

 

[RJMacready73]

people update their $1000+ phones every year/2yrs and y'all complainin about an updated $500 console that came out 3yrs ago, i have no issue with it, ill still stick with my PS5 but if i see the Pro offering a significant visual advantage over my base console then ill jump on but ifs just gonna run more games at 60fps or offer more Rays then nah

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I actually have a lot of self-control, that's why I can casually buy a potential Pro.

What's weird is your inability to comprehend such simple concepts.
In fact, that makes me think you're someone who has more trouble to afford a Pro, since you it up in the first place.

I'm Day 1, even if it costs 1200 (assuming it's a sufficient enough upgrade).

 

[Drizzlehell]

people update their $1000+ phones every year/2yrs

I don't think those people need anyone to follow their example, though. What they need is professional help.

 

[Efren is G.O.A.T.]

More options is rarely a bad thing but I prefer going from one generation to the next without the pro consoles in the middle

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I don't think those people need anyone to follow their example, though. What they need is professional help.

Or or or... some people like to be on the cutting edge and know their old phone has the highest trade-in value the following year?

I skipped the iPhone 14 Pro and got an iPhone 15 Pro... I probably won't buy a 16 or 17 unless they do something groundbreaking. All I wanted was usb-c. That it's a bit snappier and lighter weight was just a bonus.

 

[Drizzlehell]

Or or or... some people like to be on the cutting edge and know their old phone has the highest trade-in value the following year?

Ok, let me just don my hat here for a second first...

Now.

I know how this will sound but if we are really going to get off on a deep end here, I genuinely think that the kind of behavior that makes you obsessed with buying the latest hardware is some kind of late stage capitalism brain rot, and society really needs a shake up in order to wake up from this idiocy. It's bad for your psyche, it's bad for your livelihood, and it's bad for the environment. Period.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Ok, let me just don my hat here for a second first...

Now.

I know how this will sound but if we are really going to get off on a deep end here, I genuinely think that the kind of behavior that makes you obsessed with buying the latest hardware is some kind of late stage capitalism brain rot, and society really needs a shake up in order to wake up from this idiocy. It's bad for your psyche, it's bad for your livelihood, and it's bad for the environment. Period.

You and your friend buy a phone in year 0, you both pay 1000 dollars for it

your friend trades in their phone in year 1 for the new model and gets 800 dollars for the trade-in

year friend trades in their phone again in year 2 for the new model and gets 800 dollars for it. They've spent 1400 dollars.

both you and your friend trade your phones in year 3. Your phone is worth 200 dollars and theirs is worth 800. The new phone is once again 1000 dollars.

Ultimately, you spent 1800 dollars and your friend spent 1600 dollars and has had fewer problems and a better phone experience for 3 years.

Or it could just be brain rot...

 

[asdasdasdbb]

More options is rarely a bad thing but I prefer going from one generation to the next without the pro consoles in the middle

There's a reason why this gen (should) last a long time. This gen is really only getting started this year. But for 60 fps you will need the mid gen refresh soon enough. How much do you care about 60 fps?

If MS actually does release a 'new gen' console before 28, it'd be treated like a mid gen refresh anyway for most of it's life.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

There's a reason why this gen (should) last a long time. This gen is really only getting started this year. But for 60 fps you will need the mid gen refresh soon enough. How much do you care about 60 fps?

If MS actually does release a 'new gen' console before 28, it'd be treated like a mid gen refresh anyway for most of it's life.

The biggest myth is that this generation is just getting started... it's not.

Will we get more games running UE5? Sure, but the reality is games are already maxing out the hardware and while techniques and tools will improve performance and efficiency, we're not going to get much more than we've already seen. That's not how the systems are built anymore. Developers aren't "figuring" out the architecture.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

If MS actually does release a 'new gen' console before 28, it'd be treated like a mid gen refresh anyway for most of it's life.

That's where Microsoft is caught between a rock and a hard place. Where they've Sega'd themselves.

Release too late and the PS5 will create a massive userbase that will be difficult and expensive to pull back from.

Release too early and the system will only get cross platform games built largely on the existing hardware with userbase and the PS6 will kick things off at a level which it is again hard to compete for the next 5-7 years.

The Dreamcast couldn't compete with the PS2 and it created a vicious cycle.

The 360 was one of the most perfectly timed consoles in history.

 

[Jigsaah]

I can't speak for everyone, but since I missed out on the original launch and the console was unavailable or near impossible to get for a while, if im gonna buy the console I don't want it to be outdated in a year or so. Given the price of the PS5 has remained at its original price, it does make me wonder if they are actually going to release a pro, but I hold out hope.

PC has given me enough to play but I still would like to play some games on my TV. Also while I'm willing to wait for some Sony exclusives on PC, there are others I would like to play day one. That's all

 

[Drizzlehell]

You and your friend buy a phone in year 0, you both pay 1000 dollars for it

your friend trades in their phone in year 1 for the new model and gets 800 dollars for the trade-in

year friend trades in their phone again in year 2 for the new model and gets 800 dollars for it. They've spent 1400 dollars.

both you and your friend trade your phones in year 3. Your phone is worth 200 dollars and theirs is worth 800. The new phone is once again 1000 dollars.

Ultimately, you spent 1800 dollars and your friend spent 1600 dollars and has had fewer problems and a better phone experience for 3 years.

Or it could just be brain rot...

Now the question is - why do you need that new phone every year? In what way this "better phone experience" is enriching your life? Is it going to give me an orgasm whenever I make a phone call? Or maybe it will make my Uber driver arrive faster? I NEED TO KNOW!

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Now the question is - why do you need that new phone every year? In what way this "better phone experience" is enriching your life? Is it going to give me an orgasm whenever I make a phone call? Or maybe it will make my Uber driver arrive faster? I NEED TO KNOW!

Better battery life, better camera, better audio quality, better interaction with ecosystem, smoother/faster performance, brighter screen, less sunglare... there's always a reason why the next iteration is a better phone, but the point you ignored, is that waiting to upgrade after 3 years or so or even longer can be MORE expensive, so you might as well upgrade while your existing phone has more value.

 

[Setsuna Mudou]

Once again, you're just repeating the same BS about letting you enjoy what you want and ignoring the potential drawbacks. The mobile phone argument is also nonsensical because trends that rule that market are completely different from the console market. Also, mobile market is a cesspool so even providing it as an example to support your argument is ridiculous. What are you even suggesting, that it's okay if consoles become the same kind of consumerist wasteland as mobile market as long as you can satiate your thirst for buying new things?

Also, 8+ years? What are you even talking about? Current gen started in late 2020 in case you didn't know.

It's not bullshit, it's facts, independently of any opinions here I will still enjoy what I want (and you'll do the same). I'm contesting your perceived drawbacks, please address the point being made.

Last gen we had pro versions of the consoles and games kept coming out for the base versions. Even after the PS5 and Series consoles, we had games for several years being released on those old consoles, so what exactly are you complaining about?

As a counter argument, the vast majority of the games are also releasing on PC, where devs have to take into account orders of magnitude more architectural complexity. So unless your argument supports games not being released on PC, I'm not sure you have a leg to stand on to flag these downsides of the pro consoles.

This is pretty simple, not sure what you're not grasping.

A game releasing on PS5 and on PC creates much more complexity than taking the same game and allowing better raytracing/higher framerates/better shadows/higher res on a potential PS5 Pro, so your concerns are mute.

edit: almost forgot, ps4 released in nov 2013, ps4 in nov 2020 (that's already 7 years) and only now in 2023 we finally have some high profile games skipping the ps4, that's almost 10 years with the same old ass hardware which was already old when it came out.
for comparison, the ps1 released in 1995 in the west, with the ps2 releasing at the start of 2000, that's 5 years. So my point is these gens are extending much longer than they used to, so it completely justifies the pro models existing

 

[Drizzlehell]

Better battery life, better camera, better audio quality, better interaction with ecosystem, smoother/faster performance, brighter screen, less sunglare... there's always a reason why the next iteration is a better phone, but the point you ignored, is that waiting to upgrade after 3 years or so or even longer can be MORE expensive, so you might as well upgrade while your existing phone has more value.

Sorry, I just saw maths and started thinking about breasts instead.

But overall, it looks like you'd just be spending more money over the course of 3 years than just buying the phone once and holding on to it. Because those marginal upgrades won't make any difference overall. They just won't. Not in practical terms. A phone from a year ago will do exactly the same things that I want it to do as its successor from this year.

Bottom line, I will hold on to mine for the foreseeable future and there's literally nothing that could convince me that it's necessary to swap it for a newer model every year.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

The biggest myth is that this generation is just getting started... it's not.

Will we get more games running UE5? Sure, but the reality is games are already maxing out the hardware and while techniques and tools will improve performance and efficiency, we're not going to get much more than we've already seen. That's not how the systems are built anymore. Developers aren't "figuring" out the architecture.

Cool story.

It wasn't until this year that Sony managed to solve their supply issues, so PS5 is only readily available since earlier this year.

The start of this gen is very different from a typical generational transition.

 

[BlackTron]

Well I didn't have a vanilla PS4 for a very long time having given it to somebody. I was much better off buying back in with PS4 Pro when Ghost came out than yet another base PS4.

Which made it easy to just leapfrog and wait till the next pro console comes out now that we know they're a thing.

Actually with all the PC ports now and meh VR, PS4 might end up being my last Playstation anyway, you bet I'm happy they made a pro version lol.

 

[Drizzlehell]

It's not bullshit, it's facts, independently of any opinions here I will still enjoy what I want (and you'll do the same). I'm contesting your perceived drawbacks, please address the point being made.

Last gen we had pro versions of the consoles and games kept coming out for the base versions. Even after the PS5 and Series consoles, we had games for several years being released on those old consoles, so what exactly are you complaining about?

As a counter argument, the vast majority of the games are also releasing on PC, where devs have to take into account orders of magnitude more architectural complexity. So unless your argument supports games not being released on PC, I'm not sure you have a leg to stand on to flag these downsides of the pro consoles.

This is pretty simple, not sure what you're not grasping.

A game releasing on PS5 and on PC creates much more complexity than taking the same game and allowing better raytracing/higher framerates/better shadows/higher res on a potential PS5 Pro, so your concerns are mute.

edit: almost forgot, ps4 released in nov 2013, ps4 in nov 2020 (that's already 7 years) and only now in 2023 we finally have some high profile games skipping the ps4, that's almost 10 years with the same old ass hardware which was already old when it came out.
for comparison, the ps1 released in 1995 in the west, with the ps2 releasing at the start of 2000, that's 5 years. So my point is these gens are extending much longer than they used to, so it completely justifies the pro models existing

It's not "perceived", examples of why mid-gen upgrades would be a terrible practice have been already provided in this thread a number of times. Both by yours truly and other users as well. If you really wanna contest anything then you should at least have the courtesy of browsing through the discussion first.

 

[8BiTw0LF]

The real question is why are people bothered by its existence.

Poor people..

 

[Fbh]

The real question is why are people bothered by its existence.

As someone who was initially against the Ps4 pro (and then ended up buying one lol) it was this sort of paradoxical thinking of "I don't want to buy another console already" but also "It bothers me knowing there's a better version of this big exclusive game I could be playing if I bought the Pro model". That mixed with the fear that games on base Ps4 would start sucking because devs would focus on the pro (which never happened).

But ultimately it all just seemed dumb to me. Most games I played were third party anyway so there was always a better version on PC and it never bothered me, so why should I be bothered by a better version on Playstation? If anything having the option to get a hardware refresh every 2-3 years is good. And if you sell or trade in your current console the upgrade wasn't even that expensive.

 

[Setsuna Mudou]

It's not "perceived", examples of why mid-gen upgrades would be a terrible practice have been already provided in this thread a number of times. Both by yours truly and other users as well. If you really wanna contest anything then you should at least have the courtesy of browsing through the discussion first.

Can you address the points that I made directly?

If the same game is being released on console and PC, where is the issue if having a pro version with higher level of detail, etc?
If you're going to obfuscate and say it was already responded but not provide an example indeed I guess we're done.

 

[Drizzlehell]

Can you address the points that I made directly?

If the same game is being released on console and PC, where is the issue if having a pro version with higher level of detail, etc?
If you're going to obfuscate and say it was already responded but not provide an example indeed I guess we're done.

What makes you think you deserve special treatment? It's a public discussion. Keep up.

Nothing is obfuscated if previous responses are right there for everyone to see.

 

[Zuzu]

.