Insane Metal
Member
That's so fucking sad.
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How BioWare's Anthem Went Wrong [article by J. Schreier, Kotaku]
Handy Fake
Member
It was aimed at those who think that severe mental stress can only affect those in certain immediately identifiable "high stress" jobs. Which I'm sure you'll agree is an awful stance to take considering those affected are essentially being told that what they're going through is a nonsense.
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Insane Metal
Member
As someone who has fought depression for more than a decade, I understand you bro. Take care of yourself first and foremost. Do whatever it takes to get better. I wish you the best, love the work you do.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Dude......EA literally followed up Jason's story acknowledging they had issues and hired a new person in 2017 to fix the past issues. Why are you acting like there were no issues with BioWare?
I hate reading Dark's post, because it just goes to show how shitty humans are to others. There's no reason why Dark should be told to "MAN UP" or stop being a victim. Why do some people always throw the "victimhood" term around to make others feel guilty or weak?
When will the average person realize that most of us are going through something and that's okay? Some people treat mental stress and mental health as if it's a joke and not a serious thing. It's so frusrating. You can see it ALL through this thread. People shitting on BioWare developers because the leadership and software tools they had were terrible and made the quality of their life worse to deal with. That's a real thing. But to be told basically, "SHUT UP and DEAL WITH IT" seems like the dumbest\worst\ignorant\saddest thing ever to me.
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I blame alone on Bioware for this. Also for hiring unskilled people. When you have a product with Andromeda that has worse animations and faes than Mass Effect which was released in 2007 than you really have not only untalented but also very unskilled people. But they cared more for being diverse than for actual skilled people. No wonder these untrained unskilled people break down after that much pressure. What Epic should have done is to say STOP hiring based on skill but as such a huge company that would probably also difficult to realize in the end.
At this point I think it is better to close this studio and let the legecy be a legacy. They are done for. And it is time these employees seek for a better suited career. Maybe some help desk or customer support job. Or in the End if this does not work out. There is still McDonalds.
KonradLaw
Member
Well..it sure as hell isn't the fault of rank and file devs. They're not the ones making decissions. The team leads are. So it's their fault, as well as the fault of BioWare's bosses since they allowed it and in turn also EA's fault for allowing them to do it.
When it's yet another project that didn't take any real shape for years and then was rushed in less than two years...that's failure of managment.
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
This didn't happen due to diversity. Stop with your anti-diversity stance. It's super clear the many reasons why BioWare are making bad to average games now. And EA forcing all teams to use the FrostBite engine is clearly one of them.
The moment they announced and marketed this stance Andromeda did happen. People like racist Manveer advocated for it etc. I think it has something to do with it and honestly it would be difficult to prove me otherwise since it really aligns with the downfall of Bioware and their statements.
iconmaster
Banned
That's so fucking sad.
I look forward to all of Schreier's investigative works. Again, you don't have to agree with the guy's views on anything to recognize that he knows how to put a story together.
KonradLaw
Member
This doesn't make any sense. Because Anthem and Andromeda are rushed games, thin on content, unpolished and with weak gameplay systems. How is pro-diversity responsible for any of those. At most their SJW-ness has caused lack of attactive romance partners for Andromeda, but even that was just small part of the entire game.
The errors from this is not because of a rushed job. Many of the failures are not bugs or rushed they were designed that way.
We are talking here about worse animations and faces than a 2007 game. We are talking about a destiny like game that that has scalable equipment which makes Loot in this game totally worthless. We are talking about so many design errors that clearly show ANY sign of skill or knowledge. And this was a t a time when they advertised for diversity rather than skill. And this is when all skilled people and leader have left the company
recma12
Member
Correlation =!= causality.
If Andromeda and Anthem would have been good, nobody would even talk about political stuff. DA:Inquisition was FULL of LGBT, diversity and acceptance themes and IIRC the game sold well/won GOTY awards.
UbiSoft gave us the option to play AC Odyssey as a lesbian protagonist and they are fine.
Not a big fan of the "woke SJW" stuff myself, but come on. The problems with ME:A and Anthem are not based on the political opinions of some devs.
It is not about the diversity in the game....
IT is choosing diversity over skill. And this is what also did happen at Bioware.
TheDreadLord
Gold Member
BioWare had like 7 years to deliver something. It is not only EA fault.
ruvikx
Banned
Just to answer this post: when Bioware released Mass Effect Andromeda, the character creator didn't contain any white character presets whatsoever. https://www.oneangrygamer.net/2017/...inally-lets-you-make-pale-white-people/29468/
A patch later fixed the issue, but it was remarkable in its blatant in-our-face militant diversity (gone wrong) nonetheless. Bioware has been plagued by this sort of militant politics since Paragon Shepard response options induced Cortez in Mass Effect 3 to assume our Shepard was a homosexual. Fortunately for me, I played as a Renegade.
But seriously, how on earth can you claim Anthem & Andromeda were "rushed" when EA funded their development for 5+ years? I (for what it's worth) absolutely blame EA because they're beyond incompetent & greedy with regards to their embarrassing attempts to maximize profits from games like a capitalistic stereotype from a Hollywood movie. But Bioware's current roster is also embarrassing. A lot of errors in Andromeda & Anthem are literally the little details & basic stuff which EA is not responsible for. The vision & ideas might be sh*t (EA's fault), but when the core gameplay, glitches & barebones useless stuff drags the (already) bad concept down, that's also Bioware's fault. These devs were paid for 6 years to deliver a product... & failed.
I bet a whole bunch of unemployed & other desperate Americans/Canadians wished they'd been in their shoes for over half a decade. Also, the Kotaku article which features reported "complaints" from certain Bioware staff regarding Dragon Age Inquisition's work conditions is a bit funny (& ironic) considering it's an extremely liberal, progressive "SJW" product in which homosexuals, multiple colors & women who look like men (number one romance option Cassandra) are at the forefront of the game. Well gee whiz, it doesn't matter what someone makes (whether it's propaganda or harmless fun), whatever the product is, it requires a shit load of hard work. That's how the real world works.
Fuz
Banned
https://venturebeat.com/2019/04/02/bioware-went-rogue-on-ea-with-its-dragon-age-4-announcement/
It gets better and better.
Basically, they announced DA4 despite EA because they knew Anthem was going to be a piece of shit.
EDIT: This has been retracted for some reason.
It gets better and better.
Basically, they announced DA4 despite EA because they knew Anthem was going to be a piece of shit.
EDIT: This has been retracted for some reason.
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Why assume the people calling out the report of "cry closets" and months of paid leave over work stress lead cushy existences and don't understand stress, suffering, and mental health issues themselves?
Handy Fake
Member
I can't see anyone saying that?
I do see the dismissal of others' problems though.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Looks like the author of that article has retracted it for some reason. The article got updated.
I'm not saying those people don't understand mental health issues. I'm saying their reaction to people having mental breakdowns is terrible. It'll be like reading someone convey a story about how they broke their leg at work, cried about it, and had to go through physical therapy. And then someone on a message board comes by in response saying, "get a grip I broke 2 legs at work and I still pushed through".
Like........is it that hard to be emphatic and understand that it sucks going through a sucky time in your life? People don't need to be viewed as soft\weak for having a mental breakdown. They just need help. Just like a doctor would help someone with a physical injury.
Alebrije
Member
In resume :
Big companies like EA and Bioware justs care about the money.
Developers /workers care more abut the dream of make reality thier ideas on a videogame so they "survive" stressed working hours and family time to deliver the "dream" ( this happens in most of works btw).
Company decides that your work wont be included in the final product because : They can, after all you are just a worker that received payment no matter of your work is on the final product.
Game bombs on release thanks to bad management ( developing process). Devevolpers feel dissapointed after all those years of dedicated time and blame the big bosses. They feel like wasted 5-6 years of their life developing "nothing". at the same time they got payed.
So basically if you like to make your dream becoming true do not work for big gaming companies because you wont have control of your dream , basically your are giving your dream to them and they can do anything. with it, even excluding your from the final product. At the same time they payed you during all this time. Do not blame EA or Bioware for making your dream a piece of crap , blame you for giving it to them in exchange for a payment.
But if you care about working on a big company it order to recieve a decent income just be ready to the outcome, because big companies will always search the money no matter the industry.
Big companies like EA and Bioware justs care about the money.
Developers /workers care more abut the dream of make reality thier ideas on a videogame so they "survive" stressed working hours and family time to deliver the "dream" ( this happens in most of works btw).
Company decides that your work wont be included in the final product because : They can, after all you are just a worker that received payment no matter of your work is on the final product.
Game bombs on release thanks to bad management ( developing process). Devevolpers feel dissapointed after all those years of dedicated time and blame the big bosses. They feel like wasted 5-6 years of their life developing "nothing". at the same time they got payed.
So basically if you like to make your dream becoming true do not work for big gaming companies because you wont have control of your dream , basically your are giving your dream to them and they can do anything. with it, even excluding your from the final product. At the same time they payed you during all this time. Do not blame EA or Bioware for making your dream a piece of crap , blame you for giving it to them in exchange for a payment.
But if you care about working on a big company it order to recieve a decent income just be ready to the outcome, because big companies will always search the money no matter the industry.
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wipeout364
Member
Just wanted to say I've been here forever and always appreciated your input into the threads and your digital Foundry stuff. Also really appreciated you not bailing on GAF during the split. Hang in there, work life balance can be really hard to control -> work, marriage, kids and gaming is a brutal balancing act.
SurprisedPikachu
Member
I logged in last night to 10,000+ players playing Titanfall 2.. the franchise might not be seeing a third entry, but TF2 is definitely alive.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
How do you even prove something like that? You sound like you're inserting your own narrative to prove a preconceived notion.
#We are talking here about almost 10 year old technology at that point. They used the same engine as Inquisition and the differences are staggering. You can not put this on the time pressure they had. If we would talk about time bugs and glitches sure. But even the design choices were at most on an amateur level. Fact is that there is NO talent left at Bioware and fact is also that this all did happen after Bioware was advertising their diverse teams and one of their director went on an anti white rant on twitter and got later fired for it.
These are the facts and I draw my conclusions around it. It also shows that these people according to Kotaku were totally not holding up to the pressure normal development brings. Millennial especially have lost most of their capabilities to endure stress and pressure at work. Here is the thing. I bet it was not even Biwoares fault that they suddendly were crying like that. They probably just did the same thing they always did. But these people did not endure the normal working environment.,
There was just en Study in Germany recently which showed that young people today can not withstand any form of pressure anymore.
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Krappadizzle
Member
Not a Kotaku fan but Schreier knocked it out of the park with that write up. Thorough, cited, and we'll constructed. I really liked the whole read and would love to see more examples of that kind of journalism in gaming. Great job Jason.
Halo is Back
Member
He has shit opinions but I have to admit he is the only actual journalist working within the gaming industry.
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Halo is Back
Member
Bioware had just as much to do with this as EA hell I would even go as far as to say Bioware is MORE at fault here. EA gave them 7 fucking years to make the game. EA was more than fair to Bioware here as far at giving them the time to complete the game and remember this was a game Bioware wanted to make not EA. EA should have just cancelled the game after 4 years of Bioware sticking thumbs up their asses
The problem is the article is a couple of thousand words, and none of it, not a single word, can be attributed to a named source. When your story is a laundry list of anonymous quotes, there's no way to weigh any of the statements.
Halo is Back
Member
If someone has to walk in a closet to cry onw the job. That's a problem with work environment, not the person. Remember, depression and anxiety were wide spread in the studio. That should never happen. It all makes sense now. I remember reading before the game came out bioware employees were terrified of loosing their jobs and were under high stress. Its amazing this game even came out in the state it did.
Halo is Back
Member
Sitting on a computer for 10 to 12 hours a day coding sounds fucking depressing to me. I dabbled in it in college, and I found out quickly that shit ain't for me.
joe_zazen
Member
It is a common response, especially to things not understood. Cancer victims used to be blamed for having cancer, obesity is still this way mostly.
We all have our internal fiction of how the world and other people are and how they work. It is necessary because it allows us to function. Most don’t understand that it is a fiction, like identity. So when the fiction heavily skews towards individualism and individual responsibility, you get victim blaming and ice cold responses and judgementalism. Having said that, it may work for that individual, although maybe not for those in his life.
Dr. Claus
Vincit qui se vincit
Obesity is entirely on the person. Cancer isn't. You can't control if you get cancer, but you can control if you get fat.
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joe_zazen
Member
You believe you know this, those who devote their lives to researching it disagree. I side with the research community.
Edit: and it wasnt that long ago that people didnt understand cancer and therefore blamed the cancer patient. People default to blaming the victim when something they dont understand happens. Susan Sontag wrote a good meditation on this.
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Dr. Claus
Vincit qui se vincit
Please post the peer reviewed research from high impact journals that corroborate your claims. As far as I am aware, genetics only plays a small part in how quickly a person can gain/lose adipose tissue - but it is still on the person on whether it reaches a point where it becomes a problem.
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ramuh
Member
Obesity is not always on the person. Certain people are genetically predisposed to keeping the pounds on and vise versa. I fall in the vise versa, can eat anything I want and not suffer the effects of obesity. And cancer also has a environmental factor, like choosing to work in environments that induce cancer rates (Even though its a personal choice).
On topic, man what a shitshow. Just understanding that Bioware we remember is mostly lost (shoutout to Bioware Austin) due to the attrition is so sad.
Abriael_GN
RSI Employee of the Year
The positive reactions to this article smell a lot like confirmation bias to me.
Personally, I feel that it's very easy to bash people from behind the shield of anonymity, and it's even easier to build a narrative when you can cherry pick your anonymous sources and have no need whatsoever to prove that they actually represent a common feeling within a studio.
Bioware is formed by hundreds of people, and large gaming studios are like a society. No matter how well or badly things go, you'll always find several people that are happy, and several people who are unhappy. No management makes everyone happy.
By interviewing a few anonymous sources among multiple teams of hundreds, you can assemble literally any narrative, and it's not like Kotaku doesn't have an agenda that they actively push all the time (and very conveniently is supported by this article).
Should never, ever take anonymous sources at face value. I have no doubts that Bioware has many problem areas, like all large studios, but I am quite positive that this article simply paints the picture its author wants to paint.
Personally, I feel that it's very easy to bash people from behind the shield of anonymity, and it's even easier to build a narrative when you can cherry pick your anonymous sources and have no need whatsoever to prove that they actually represent a common feeling within a studio.
Bioware is formed by hundreds of people, and large gaming studios are like a society. No matter how well or badly things go, you'll always find several people that are happy, and several people who are unhappy. No management makes everyone happy.
By interviewing a few anonymous sources among multiple teams of hundreds, you can assemble literally any narrative, and it's not like Kotaku doesn't have an agenda that they actively push all the time (and very conveniently is supported by this article).
Should never, ever take anonymous sources at face value. I have no doubts that Bioware has many problem areas, like all large studios, but I am quite positive that this article simply paints the picture its author wants to paint.
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Hellblueboy
Member
He may be SJW but his works is worth reading.
Despite his SJW worldview, this guy is a talent journalist .
Dr. Claus
Vincit qui se vincit
He is not talented. He does the basics of his job. If he was a journalist in literally any other field, he would be doing the bare minimum expected.
Abriael_GN
RSI Employee of the Year
Not really. The basics of a journalist's job are to report facts.
I don't see many facts here.
Halo is Back
Member
. And yet this article creates much light on all of the red flags of Anthem coming out before the game shipped and after. I don't possibly see how you can't connect the dots on this. Journalism isn't science. Sometimes you can't get all the facts. Regardless he carries a lot of respect and weight in this industry. Its smart not to take everything at face value but the writing is on the wall here man.
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Abriael_GN
RSI Employee of the Year
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Halo is Back
Member
Uhhh no. The game speaks for its self. Confirmation bias would be me blaming EA for everything since I hate them. There were hints of this going on even before the game came out. I’m just observing and connecting the dots as the story unfolds. Bioware is In shambles. Anthem proves it and so dose ME:A
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Ozymandias013
Banned
In short Bioware from old doesn't exists anymore because they all left,and the fact that the team who made Old Republic online came to help you and because you saw yourself better than them refusing their help,shows how fucked up everything is there,so for me its the end of buying their games,Bioware is done.
Fox Mulder
Member
The Bioware that made the games I enjoyed doesn't exist anymore. I wonder how much longer this one will.
Screamer-RSA
Member
So now we know why they quickly glossed over all those armours, materials etc they showed on the live streams before launch, because 90% of it wasn't ready. They literally had nothing and all that was to make people think there was content.
All that's left of Bioware is deceptive marketing and management that can't lead teams to make a finished game in 6 years.
All that's left of Bioware is deceptive marketing and management that can't lead teams to make a finished game in 6 years.
GenericUser
Member
If you look at the final product, especially in comparison to old-biowares' work back in the day, it doesn't take an expert to see what went wrong imo. It looks like contract labor, nothing anyone in the team really identified with. Just a triple A game, the ticks all the right checkboxes (so they thought) and was shat out to squeeze money out of the crowds. For the office suits, the bombing of this game might came as a surprise, to me, it was well expected.
MMaRsu
Banned
Actually Apex brought a lot of players back to TF2, over 7000 on xbox last time I checked!