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[iconmaster]

I'm branching this from a Gaming topic because it's something I've felt myself and I want to get it aired out without derailing other useful discussions. I find these kinds of metadiscussions as annoying as you likely do, so feel free to Ignore Thread (or Ignore User, I don't judge).

Take a deep breath, and try not to have a knee-jerk reaction. I'm on your side, really.

Here's what B bigol said somewhere else:

Well, it seems like Neogaf is the right wing Resetera. Despite you guys claiming you just want to have fun with videogames, i can see politics and SJW related articles on gaming side growing at an alarming rate.

For a place that wants to be chill and just have fun you have quite the persecution complex and are obsessed with destroying progressives, just like the other forum is obsessed with destroying "nazis".

Here's the thing: I'm pretty right-wing. Probably more than most of you: I've seen the Political Compass thread where the results show we lean slightly left-of-center in general. However, for whatever reason -- it's drama that generates the most clicks and responses, or it's some process of self-selection among the most active users -- I think one can feasibly claim that there has grown up a certain degree of "persecution complex" in reaction against the most radical strains of leftism. (If you disagree, great.)

Sometimes persecutions actually happen! I'll be the first person to admit to a powerful amount of fear over the authoritarian tendencies of the most strident leftists. (I'm not saying you're afraid of anyone, mind.) We should always be quick to call those tendencies out. Please continue doing so.

I guess the question is whether it's possible to be reasonably and firmly opposed to bad ideas and trends without being consumed by our opposition. I like to think we can still be chill and fun even when fighting the good fight.

Well, that's that. Have at me.

 

[Birdo]

If this place was the right-wing Resetera, then left-wing people would be banned.

I haven't seen anyone banned for political views here, so it can't be that bad.

 

[Sub_Level]

Its pretty chill, the more intense discussions are confined to politics and a few gaming threads. Most people are able to go back to talking about VIDEOGAMES.

 

[Mista]

In general we’re pretty much chill until someone says everything is SJW and blah blah then a fight happens. But recently? No it isn’t chill and I understand where you’re coming from. But please point out to where anyone here tried to destroy anything ONCE? People might rant and go wild but nobody went and made campaigns or sent emails to whatever to change whatever. Thats the difference and thats what makes us pretty much chill. At least whatever happens here stays here, we don’t go outside rubbing it in everyones face and say “haha what a pathetic SJW CUNT, get destroyed” and then we start a war and all that shit. So no, we didn’t destroy anything like that member called bigot or whatever his name is claimed. If he says we’re destroying things then he better have proof to back it up. I’m here daily and haven’t seen anything from those claims. You have a good hair, cheers bruv.

 

[Captain Zyrain]

If this place was the right-wing Resetera, then left-wing people would be banned.

I haven't seen anyone banned for political views here, so it can't be that bad.

This ^

The prevailing culture WILL make places seem more right or left, but that's anywhere. When places start actively BANNING and stifling honest dissent, you're in trouble.

 

[Halo is Back]

The majority of users here are anti-sjw and it’s no secret. I mean really if you don’t like it then go post somewhere else. It’s the same reason why most here don’t post on rest era. The big difference is that you won’t get banned for speaking your mind which is a very good thing. It’s always good to have challenging opinions and we could probably use more of that because some threads are echo chambers . Honestly though, I think this is one of the best sites to post and I do think most of the people here are actually pretty chill. I don’t agree with everyone here obviously but we do have decent discussions from time to time.

 

[jufonuk]

Just don’t go making poop threads

 

[JordanN]

I'm anti-bullshit.

If anyone gets hanged up about going after SJW's in games, remind them that we also went after the Right when they pulled the same thing.

Jack Thompson = Proto-Anita Sarkeesian. Yet nobody defended him for being right-wing.

SJW's are the ones who are most vocal about censorship now, so of course they should expect to be battered for it.

 

[Cunth]

Show me this hair

 

[Whitesnake]

bigol has been bitching about the forum a lot lately. He bitched in the Persona 5 controversy thread, he bitches in the game journos clique thread, and he’s probably gonna bitch here too. He vaguely whines about “chill” and “persecution”, but what he’s actually mad about is that we clown on people who think like he does. He strawmans everyone who dislikes the Persona 5 localization’s censorship as “homophobic” and hates the idea that the far-left game journos that he uses to validate his views might not be great journalists/people. He’s a REEfugee, which I find incredibly funny. He doesn’t seem to realize that the reason ResetEra is so shitty and toxic is because it’s made up of people like him, who don’t care about discussion and see any differing opinion as a personal attack.

The comparison to REE is laughable. People here are not banned for having opinions. People here do not believe they are on a moral crusade to fight """nazis""". People here are not afraid of saying anything that hasn’t been pre-approved by mods. People here can be casual, raunchy, shitposty, etc.

When faced with unreasonable and aggressive opposition, what point is there is restricting your own arguments to only ones that you can express politely? I do not care to filter my speech through the sensibilities of someone who has no interest in doing the same for me. If someone’s take on something is stupid, and they say it with such conviction that they’re also claiming all other takes are wrong, them I’ll tell them that their take is stupid.

I do not care about being seen as “chill”. I say what I think regardless of topic, and there are some topics where having any opinion at all is in itself antithetical to being “chill”. Progressive authoritarianism is one of those topics.

 

[nush]

I checked that quoted posters history, he left during the great exodus then came back mid way through last year because he was fed up with Resetera. Seems like he wont find any public discussion place that suits him.

 

[jshackles]

Most people on the left seem to get the impression that whatever they disagree with is "alt-right".

As others have said, on NeoGAF any point of view is tolerated especially if it's a well put together argument. Because of that, places where free-think aren't allowed are always going to be able to find a viewpoint someone posts on NeoGAF that they disagree with and mistake it's lack of moderation as moralistic approval. In their minds, it's the same as if EviLore himself came out and said that thing. They like to pick and choose too - it's not like anyone on Resetera or elsewhere are going to come to GAF to see the counter-arguments and share those too.

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

I think you’ve written a very articulate and thoughtful post iconmaster

I have some pretty strong opinions on the subject but I’ve been trying to keep political leanings more to myself as opposed to my earlier “if this is a hoax I’ll eat my keyboard (Jussie Smollett)” days

Do I notice trends in the gaming section? Yeah, sometimes I think I do, but I also think I notice shit all the time that ends up turning out to be nothingburgers, so I try to take a step back and play devils advocate.

There are times I think I undertand “what’s going on,“ for the most part, and other times I realize I have no clue

 

[DKehoe]

It is what it is. A large portion of discussion here is focused on anti-sjw/woke stuff. It can really dominate things and leave a lot of subjects undiscussed. If I go see a new movie GAF is no longer somewhere I can go to find a bunch of people talking about it, unless people are discussing how woke its trying to be. But if people here want to talk more about that kind of stuff then that’s up to them. They should be able to do that. I’d rather the mods don’t crack down on it as used to be the case. I do wish the Resetera talk was kept within the community thread for that, as the thread title asks people to do. I don’t visit Resetera so having GAF constantly comparing itself to there gets pretty tiring because it’s not something I care about at all. I’d rather GAF define itself as something more than just not being Resetera.

 

[Captain Zyrain]

I think there is some cases where people kneejerk(off) hard when suddenly given the freedom to express themselves without the fear of being banned. So they shitpost (a lot). I feel like anything that was ACTUALLY questionable or offensive (to a reasonable person) gets moderated pretty fairly.

Fuck, having a little button down below where you can SEE all the bans, in detail, down to the post.. is fantastic. TRANSparency.

I think as the activity #s climb, it'll get more varied in posters, and everyone can stop pretending to be offended by left or right.

 

[iconmaster]

It's very true that speaking loudly against is one thing while banning/cancelling/deplatforming is another. Point well taken, GAF.

Edit: deplatforming

 

[JordanN]

It is what it is. A large portion of discussion here is focused on anti-sjw/woke stuff. It can really dominate things and leave a lot of subjects left undiscussed. If I go see a new movie GAF is no longer somewhere I can go to find a bunch of people talking about it, unless people are discussing how woke its trying to be. But if people here want to talk more about that kind of stuff then that’s up to them. They should be able to do that. I’d rather the mods don’t crack down on it as used to be the case. I do wish the Resetera talk was kept within the community thread for that, as the thread title asks people to do. I don’t visit Resetera so having GAF constantly comparing itself to there gets pretty tiring because it’s not something I care about at all. I’d rather GAF define itself as something more than just not being Resetera.

Can I see proof of this?

Here's what the front page of gaming looks like.

I don't see where the "not Resetera" threads are.

 

[Captain Zyrain]

Can I see proof of this?

Here's what the front page of gaming looks like.

I don't see where the "not Resetera" threads are.

I would guess it's more discussions in the threads, rather than the thread titles themselves, though I don't visit enough of them to confirm or deny myself.

 

[EviLore]

I’d like to see more general discussion and shooting the shit (figuratively, not literally, poop-gaf) too, but we’re getting there and things have improved massively year on year.

 

[The Cockatrice]

There's a huge difference between speaking your mind and getting perma-banned versus speaking your mind without a care. There's also a huge difference between far-left extremists which is resetera and right wing predominant gaf. We're nowhere near the extreme side of things unlike that other place. Common sense is.. well.. common here. Are there a lot of shitposts? Yeah, but I'd rather see people have fun than be oppressed by nazi regime thinking.

 

[triplestation]

i dont see no problem

 

[MiyazakiHatesKojima]

Show me this hair

Shut up, Papa .

 

[nush]

There's a huge difference between speaking your mind and getting perma-banned versus speaking your mind without a care. There's also a huge difference between far-left extremists which is resetera and right wing predominant gaf. We're nowhere near the extreme side of things unlike that other place. Common sense is.. well.. common here. Are there a lot of shitposts? Yeah, but I'd rather see people have fun than be oppressed by nazi regime thinking.

Gaf is actually left of center. This whole right wing narrative needs receipts or for it to just be dropped.

 

[DKehoe]

Can I see proof of this?

Here's what the front page of gaming looks like.

I don't see where the "not Resetera" threads are.

I meant more the OT side of things. I don’t usually post in Gaming but it’s still pretty decent to jump in and see what people’s opinions on various games are or keep up to date on news. I was more meaning people posting in threads on the OT side with replies speculating (or actually posting) what Resetera thinks about the subject. Or that the Resetera community thread is always the most popular one in that section. It would be like if people were always trying to tell me what GameFaqs posters thought about something. I don’t visit there so their opinions don’t matter to me.

I’d like to see more general discussion and shooting the shit (figuratively, not literally, poop-gaf) too, but we’re getting there and things have improved massively year on year.

Things are definitely on the right track. And personally speaking I know I should try and make more threads to try and spark more of the kinds of conversations I want to see. I shouldn’t just expect others to do it.

 

[iconmaster]

Show me this hair

My hair is always available for your inspection, sir.

hint: look left

 

[The Cockatrice]

Gaf is actually left of center. This whole right wing narrative needs receipts or for it to just be dropped.

I don't spend much time in the politics or off-topic side of gaf so I have no receipts just assumptions from the gaming side. You might be right, it doesn't really matter. Point is/was we're better.

 

[Paracelsus]

Any place with free speech is deemed far right by liberals, because liberalism itself can only exist in a tyrannical, heavily moderated space.
They do need censorship, and that's why they hate when someone says they "censored" things (this ties directly to videogames), because censorship is bad and they can do no wrong.
You probably completely suppressed what Neogaf was around 2012-2017.

 

[Captain Zyrain]

Gaf is actually left of center. This whole right wing narrative needs receipts or for it to just be dropped.

Anything right of FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR Left is now Far Right. Get with the times. The Center is 1939 Germany.

 

[JordanN]

I meant more the OT side of things. I don’t usually post in Gaming but it’s still pretty decent to jump in and see what people’s opinions on various games are or keep up to date on news. I was more meaning people posting in threads on the OT side with replies speculating (or actually posting) what Resetera thinks about the subject. Or that the Resetera community thread is always the most popular one in that section. It would be like if people were always trying to tell me what GameFaqs posters thought about something. I don’t visit there so their opinions don’t matter to me.

But no one is forcing you to look or go there. There are many other non-Resetera threads in the community section like the Anime Thread, Fate thread, Fitness Thread, Giant Bomb etc.

And the Reset thread itself cannot be divorced from context. Many times, you do have ex-users who left that site that do share their experiences with us. Or because the site does make it in the news. So of course it's going to be more updated than a thread about Gamefaqs or IGN etc.

 

[DKehoe]

But no one is forcing you to look or go there. There are many other non-Resetera threads in the community section like the Anime Thread, Fate thread, Fitness Thread, Giant Bomb etc.

Sure, and as I said I don’t think they should be forced to stop talking about there. That kind of moderation would be a very Resetera move after all. I just think the fixation some people on here have with there doesn’t reflect well on GAF as a whole.

 

[Son Tofu]

I find this place to be fairly agreeable. I mostly lurk as I'm still new and I don't know people well enough to joke too much. This place offers all sorts of stuff that isn't political. The butt thread alone makes this place special.

 

[jshackles]

I'd be curious to see how popular a similar thread about GAF would be on Resetera if they were allowed to even discuss NeoGAF.

 

[Captain Zyrain]

Sure, and as I said I don’t think they should be forced to stop talking about there. That kind of moderation would be a very Resetera move after all. I just think the fixation some people on here have with there doesn’t reflect well on GAF as a whole.

I wonder how you'd even reduce that problem? Increase the number of people who don't give a shit about anything?

"That place is full of SJW wackos!"
"That place if full of Alt-Right Shitheads!"
"That place is full of SonyPonies!"
"That place if full of M$ Xbots!"

A place (any place) will be a reflection of its members.. for better or worse, but usually the people who take the time to point that out will pick and choose posts/members/etc that fit their narrative. I could probably find posts/threads/members here on NeoGAF to make ALL of the above statements, and if you didn't know anything about NeoGAF, you'd probably believe me.

I think group think is bad, no matter how it's aligned. I hope we keep and nourish dissenting and diverse voices, without restoring to silencing others. I feel like the site is big enough for everyone to have a say.

 

[JordanN]

Sure, and as I said I don’t think they should be forced to stop talking about there. That kind of moderation would be a very Resetera move after all. I just think the fixation some people on here have with there doesn’t reflect well on GAF as a whole.

GAF's character has always been "a neutral ground where facts and evidence, presented within the confines of civil, inclusive discourse, prevail through careful moderation. "

Nothing about discussing Resetera contradicts this. If anything, it's proof that Neogaf is not beholden to any other power but ourselves.

Imagine if Microsoft, Sony or Nintendo complained that we had too many threads that didn't show them in positive light? Do you think we would comply when we have no reason to?

I'd be curious to see how popular a similar thread about GAF would be on Resetera if they were allowed to even discuss NeoGAF.

It will never happen. They already admitted that rational thought is the anti-thesis to their website.

 

[Southern Gentleman]

If this place was the right-wing Resetera, then left-wing people would be banned.

I haven't seen anyone banned for political views here, so it can't be that bad.

This is pretty much all that needs to be said.

 

[Shouta]

bigol's comment shouldn't be a big surprise? Most folks seem to be center-left but the tone of discussion is very anti-progressive. That combined with having actual right-leaning posters being active gives the illusion that this place is very right when it's probably closer to the middle in actuality. Having more measured discussion and basically chilling out would probably help with that perception but it can be hard with the internet as it is nowadays.

 

[iconmaster]

"A trashfire of freethinkers." Can we get that embroidered and framed?

 

[sol_bad]

This place is vastly better than ReeeeERA. But the topic of politics does creep in way too much imo. As others have mentioned, it can be very hard to discuss films sometimes. You see a film, you enjoy, you want to discuss, then you log into GAF and see 'IT'S FUCKING WOKE MAN, FUCK HYPOCRITE HOLLYWOOD. FUCK THERE ARE NO GOOD MOVIES".

Back in the 2000's, a movie could be about women or have a character and no one would blink an eye.

 

[Dr. Claus]

People here are not banned for being conservative. They are not banned for being liberal. They are not banned for being socialist. We do not doxx people. We do not insult them, promote their death, harass, or celebrate the misfortunes of others based on their immutable characteristics. We primarily talk about video games, with some forays into popular culture and politics, though both are completely optional and hidden in their own subforums.

The reality is, most people here are adults from all walks of life. LGBT, straight, white, black, asian, young adult, middle-aged, twilight years, muslim, christian, conservative, liberal, etc. We are all equally worthless here and we all have one thing in common: the love of video games. Most people here do not give a rat's arse about politics and especially don't like it when it is used to push political agendas. NOTE: This is not the same as games having politically inspired plots, such as the kind you would see in a Hideo Kojima release. This particular point is important to state as certain folks try to purposefully misconstrue the "no politics in gaming" as being the latter, when it has always been the former. Do things get heated? Of course they do. Put a group of people who are truly passionate about anything in a room and there will be heated arguments, debates, and discussions.

What B bigol has stated is partially true, but not for the reasons they so desperately want it to be. There is a primary target against "left-wing" and SJWs around here. The "left-wing" in this case being the authoritarian left, not the general left which many posters have been shown to be. There is an ongoing culture war in the medium and one that has caused strife and prevented the visions of developers from being shown. "Journalists" such as Kotaku, Eurogamer, Polygon, and others have doxxed, harassed, and promoted attacks against their opponents, not based on the games but based on their own political tribes. They promote and utilize forums known for REAL racism, sexism, transphobia and defend notable members of the industry that have pushed people to suicide. They have demanded and succeeded in forcing developers and directors to change their vision of their product over perceived slights or non-existent attacks (such as the non-homophobic jokes in Persona 5, or Erika in Catherine). These are not "progressives", but simply an authoritarian cult that has taken the name for themselves. Just as had happened in Feminism.

There are definitely issues with NeoGAF. The pathetic and childish attempts at console-warring (seriously, some of you folks should go look at Matt's console wars thread). The over exaggerative "it's shit" attitude that tends to pervade topics (though that can also be linked to the console-warring tribes). The lack of love for small breasted women. However, the push against authoritarians and ignorant children playing slacktivist at their keyboards, preventing developers from releasing their visions? That is not one of them.

 

[Nymphae]

Gaf is actually left of center. This whole right wing narrative needs receipts or for it to just be dropped.

It amazes me when people say this place is full of Nazis and far right wingers, I'm like, where exactly? This place is so incredibly tame compared to places that actually contain far right wingers and outspoken racists. Show me one person espousing this kind of stuff here, in the same manner that Era spouts far left nonsense. Doesn't happen.

 

[brap]

FUCK THERE ARE NO GOOD MOVIES".

This is literally true though.

Back in the 2000's, a movie could be about women or have a character and no one would blink an eye.

Yeah back when it wasn't shoved in your face and you weren't called a sexist misogynist gamergating alt right cheeto nazi for thinking the new terminator movie looks like a retarded pile of fucking garbage.

It amazes me when people say this place is full of Nazis and far right wingers, I'm like, where exactly?

Look in the mirror bro...

 

[Nymphae]

then you log into GAF and see 'IT'S FUCKING WOKE MAN, FUCK HYPOCRITE HOLLYWOOD. FUCK THERE ARE NO GOOD MOVIES".

That's bullshit, we have our fair share of threads in that vein, but I mean, you don't have to engage with every person and opinion here. We have a couple of good movie discussion threads where people are a bit more focused, try Kadayi 's Film Club thread. Or just start a thread to talk about a movie you like, and discuss it with those who show up to do so. I see you have created a few, and they had sincere replies talking about the subject you brought up. Do more of that if you want more of that, you do seem to like engaging with the "unwoke" threads as well though.

 

[sol_bad]

That's bullshit, we have our fair share of threads in that vein, but I mean, you don't have to engage with every person and opinion here. Start a thread to talk about a movie you like, and discuss it with those who show up to do so. I see you have created a few, and they had sincere replies talking about the subject you brought up. Do more of that if you want more of that, you do seem to like engaging with the "unwoke" threads as well though.

I can't help myself, I don't know why.
^_^

 

[Southern Gentleman]

This is literally true though.


Yeah back when it wasn't shoved in your face and you weren't called a sexist misogynist gamergating alt right cheeto nazi for thinking the new terminator movie looks like a retarded pile of fucking garbage.


Look in the mirror bro...

Welcome back, breppe

 

[LegendOfKage]

Here's the thing: I'm pretty right-wing. Probably more than most of you: I've seen the Political Compass thread where the results show we lean slightly left-of-center in general. However, for whatever reason -- it's drama that generates the most clicks and responses, or it's some process of self-selection among the most active users -- I think one can feasibly claim that there has grown up a certain degree of "persecution complex" in reaction against the most radical strains of leftism. (If you disagree, great.)

I've wondered about this, and if any changes would make things better or worse. Perhaps any "game journalist person said this divisive political thing" type posts could be encouraged to be posted in the politics forum, rather than the gaming forum. Because that's not news. Journalists are to cover the news, not create the news. Maybe the actions and comments from actual game companies should be the only political topics in the gaming forum. Honestly, I'm not sure about that one.

The other thing is how often this forum rewards "game journalist person said this divisive political thing" with clicks and promotion. It would be nice to see more people using archive links, or at least not including clickable links to these articles.

 

[Tesseract]

don't coom yourself into a zoom

 

[Fushitsusha]

don't coom yourself into a zoom

dont coom yourself into doom

 

[Son Tofu]

Does coom mean ejaculation?

 

[Fushitsusha]

Does coom mean ejaculation?

yes, son.

 

[Son Tofu]

yes, son.

I'm just getting old I guess. People use lingo I've never heard of.