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[Men_in_Boxes]

Pay 2 win is one of the most universally despised concepts in gaming. I, like many of you, hissed at it for most of my gaming life.

I was wrong.

The problem with Pay 2 win has always been in its implementation, not in it's concept.

Our favorite movies, TV shows, and books abide by Pay 2 Win rules. Darth Vader spends trillions building his Death Star. He has billions of white helmeted soldiers. He's bribing (I think) politicians across the galaxy. Luke Skywalker enters as a F2P player. Darth Vader has numerous advantages over Luke Skywalker but Luke still has "fun" fighting the empire. All of our favorite stories are asymmetrical. That's Pay 2 Win.

The problem with Pay 2 Win is that it's implementation has been garbage. Up until this point, pay to win has made not paying, unenjoyable. The asymmetry of going against a whale is miserable. So much so that it leaves a bad taste in the mouths of the majority of the player base. The correction is simply making the experience fun for the player who doesn't pay anything. Star Wars becomes a much less enjoyable movie if the cheapo Rebel Alliance quite and go play another game. When developers figure out how to make the asymmetry fun...BOOM, there's your industry growth.

 

[kazuyamishima]

 

[DAHGAMING]

What a load of old bollocks.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Honey wake up Men in Boxes just created another dumbass thread

 

[Damigos]

OP you re weird or drunk
Or both
F pay 2 win

 

[Guilty_AI]

Nah, lets just go back to the arcade days. Don't charge players for the game, charge them 50 cents per round.

...crap, they're gonna do it now won't they?

 

[Topher]

 

[Aenima]

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

I want you to know that you're swimming in a pool. A pool where all the people think the correction to the industries stagnation...is to make shorter, AA games. Stop swimming in that pool. Those people don't understand how markets evolve. Swim in my pool. Swim in the pool of inevitability.

I swear to God someone will unearth this thread in 1,000 years and people will start worshipping me.

 

[Ozzie666]

I’m offended as a Star Wars fan by the inaccuracy of the OP. I think the Emperor would be too.

 

[Topher]

I swear to God someone will unearth this thread in 1,000 years and people will start worshipping me.

There is a movie about that.....

 

[Kiya's Guard]

Lmao this thread can cure boredom or sadness

 

[Three]

After this thread I think they should create Pay to Post.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

There is a movie about that.....

Are you suggesting that "Brondo, it's got what plants crave!" is the same thing as "The games industry should just make shorter AA games to drive growth!"

 

[FoxMcChief]

Pay to win sounds great.

 

[Faust]

 

[Damigos]

I want you to know that you're swimming in a pool. A pool where all the people think the correction to the industries stagnation...is to make shorter, AA games. Stop swimming in that pool. Those people don't understand how markets evolve. Swim in my pool. Swim in the pool of inevitability.

I swear to God someone will unearth this thread in 1,000 years and people will start worshipping me.

In 1000 years i will also worship you

 

[Topher]

Are you suggesting that "Brondo, it's got what plants crave!" is the same thing as this thread.

ftfy.....and yes

 

[Phase]

You got some dumbass takes, but I still love you.

 

[RaZoR No1]

Can we pay to lock up this thread?

 

[skyfall]

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

I present my theory seeking interesting and valid criticism from like minded gamers.

I receive none.

Can we pay to lock up this thread?

Too late. I emailed this thread to every multinational videogame publisher on the planet. The wheels are set in motion.

Insane Metal your support means more than you know.

 

[Doom85]

 

[Lupin3]

 

[SHA]

What's the Difference between lag wins and pay 2 win? They both sucks, you knew someone is grinding cause he gives a shit while others win and not giving a shit cause they paid for it, that part I don't understand how gen z got used to it, but thanks, I don't want to.

 

[ungalo]

Our favorite movies, TV shows, and books abide by Pay 2 Win rules. Darth Vader spends trillions building his Death Star. He has billions of white helmeted soldiers. He's bribing (I think) politicians across the galaxy. Luke Skywalker enters as a F2P player. Darth Vader has numerous advantages over Luke Skywalker but Luke still has "fun" fighting the empire. All of our favorite stories are asymmetrical. That's Pay 2 Win.

???

 

[Krieger]

I hope your internet is forever throttled at 5kb/s.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

One thing that is interesting about the responses in this thread.

I am, far and away, the biggest champion of multiplayer on this lovely site. If that's the case, perhaps my love of the medium should carry a little more weight than normal. I'm still waiting for the first single, valid criticism or potential problem. If the industry wants to grow, we need to start moving past the "Make shorter games" idea. We've all heard it a hundred times already and it doesn't work. Think outside the box.

What's the Difference between lag wins and pay 2 win? They both sucks, you knew someone is grinding cause he gives a shit while others win and not giving a shit cause they paid for it, that part I don't understand how gen z got used to it, but thanks, I don't want to.

Winning isn't the objective. Rocky didn't win at the end of Rocky. Brad Pitt doesn't win at the end of Seven. Thelma and Louise don't win at the end of Thelma and Louise. Hell, Joel doesn't win at the end of The Last of Us.

Fun is the objective. We play games for fun. We play games to experience a story.

That all jives with the concept posed in the OP.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

I hope your internet is forever throttled at 5kb/s.

Reported for hate speech.

EDIT: This needs to be added here. Don't find yourselves on the wrong side of history NeoGAF. I offer the industry a lifeboat! Take it damn you! Take it!

 

[Danjin44]

 

[Insane Metal]

I present my theory seeking interesting and valid criticism from like minded gamers.

I receive none.



Too late. I emailed this thread to every multinational videogame publisher on the planet. The wheels are set in motion.

Insane Metal your support means more than you know.

I'm sorry but I only chose that option because I felt bad to let you be the only one who voted for it.

 

[ManaByte]

 

[Chastten]

Why would this industry need to grow anymore though? We've got more games coming out than any person could ever hope to play and most publishers are generating record profits.

Even if I kinda, somewhat, understand what you're saying, it's absolutely not the kind of direction I want the industry to move towards. I rarely play online or multiplayer games, if the industry expands in that direction, it wouldn't benefit me as a gamer. It would only benefit huge megacorporations that are already making billions.

 

[Arsic]

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Why would this industry need to grow anymore though? We've got more games coming out than any person could ever hope to play and most publishers are generating record profits.

Even if I kinda, somewhat, understand what you're saying, it's absolutely not the kind of direction I want the industry to move towards. I rarely play online or multiplayer games, if the industry expands in that direction, it wouldn't benefit me as a gamer. It would only benefit huge megacorporations that are already making billions.

Fun, interesting, and rewarding gameplay always benefits the gamer. It's the core reason we play games.

What's the Difference between lag wins and pay 2 win? They both sucks, you knew someone is grinding cause he gives a shit while others win and not giving a shit cause they paid for it, that part I don't understand how gen z got used to it, but thanks, I don't want to.

This is ancient type thinking. Winning isn't the end goal. Fun is the end goal. There isn't a person posting in this thread who would rather win and have a bad time over losing and have a good time. That person doesn't exist.

 

[BaldingAshCrimson]

I'm not familiar with OP's past posts.

Is this genuine, or just rage bait?

 

[Danjin44]

I dont get how can someone actively wants to make gaming miserable.....If you truly believe your own bullshit then there is no one who can help you.

Thats "nicest" way I can put it.

 

[Chastten]

Fun, interesting, and rewarding gameplay always benefits the gamer. It's the core reason we play games.


This is ancient type thinking. Winning isn't the end goal. Fun is the end goal. There isn't a person posting in this thread who would rather win and have a bad time over losing and have a good time. That person doesn't exist.

Yeah, but I generally don't find multiplayer games 'fun', 'interesting' or 'rewarding' so unless some company has a brilliant plan to get me invested in those it'll be a hard sell.

 

[Pallas]

I want you to know that you're swimming in a pool. A pool where all the people think the correction to the industries stagnation...is to make shorter, AA games. Stop swimming in that pool. Those people don't understand how markets evolve. Swim in my pool. Swim in the pool of inevitability.

I swear to God someone will unearth this thread in 1,000 years and people will start worshipping me.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

I'm not familiar with OP's past posts.

Is this genuine, or just rage bait?

It's genuine. I prefer listening to opposing viewpoints and challenging my beliefs...certainly when it comes to gaming. I'm super open to new ideas and out of the box thinking when it comes to a hobby that is all too often stale.

 

[Vick]

How many more Threads we have to endure before some high up realizes Men_in_Boxes is a corporate mole whose sole purpose is to persuade this community to embrace all that's beneficial to corporations?

If it was up to him we'd have no single player games, no physical, and all the best studios on the planet would be forced to waste decades supporting pay 2 win games that few years later would be forever lost in the ether anyway..

Always benefits the gamer.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Yeah, but I generally don't find multiplayer games 'fun', 'interesting' or 'rewarding' so unless some company has a brilliant plan to get me invested in those it'll be a hard sell.

I think this medium is constantly progressing and the reasons why you dislike multiplayer today may be solved sometime in the future. Certainly there are areas of your life where you did not like THING until you experienced a certain variation of THING.

 

[jroc74]

OP, did you just wake up from an 11-12 year old deep sleep?

Also...

 

[Danjin44]

It's genuine. I prefer listening to opposing viewpoints and challenging my beliefs...certainly when it comes to gaming. I'm super open to new ideas and out of the box thinking when it comes to a hobby that is all too often stale.

This not “out of the box” thinking, you just post really, really stupid ideas and see how other people react to it.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

It's genuine. I prefer listening to opposing viewpoints and challenging my beliefs...certainly when it comes to gaming. I'm super open to new ideas and out of the box thinking when it comes to a hobby that is all too often stale.

I'd rather just insult you

 

[near]

The most fitting tag.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

This not “out of the box” thinking, you just post really, really stupid ideas and see how other people react to it.

I genuinely believe, if you talked to game developers like Ken Levine, Jonathan Blow, Hideo Kojima etc...and asked them to look into the future of their medium and discuss how F2P could be implemented in a healthy way, they would be able to engage in an intellectually stimulating conversation. Concepts and ideas aren't a threat to creators. It's fun to brainstorm about topics we rarely discuss...or at least it is for some.

 

[Arsic]

It's genuine. I prefer listening to opposing viewpoints and challenging my beliefs...certainly when it comes to gaming. I'm super open to new ideas and out of the box thinking when it comes to a hobby that is all too often stale.

Your original post is devoid of thought or examples. I think you just wanted to shit on Luke and the Rebels to sound smart in some abstract delusional way.

Here’s an idea: Take a game we have right now, that isn’t pay to win, and show us what pay to win you would add and how it objectively makes the game better.

Which you can’t do because it’s impossible. An even playing field is the point of MP games. The second you ignore skill by making it who has the biggest bank account, you no longer have a game. You just have a funnel of money for a greedy scum bag fueled by retards.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

I'd rather just insult you

 

[Arsic]

I genuinely believe, if you talked to game developers like Ken Levine, Jonathan Blow, Hideo Kojima etc...and asked them to look into the future of their medium and discuss how F2P could be implemented in a healthy way, they would be able to engage in an intellectually stimulating conversation. Concepts and ideas aren't a threat to creators. It's fun to brainstorm about topics we rarely discuss...or at least it is for some.

Wait are you confusing pay to win with free to play?