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India's Daughter - A Documentary About Rape In India

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-31698154

In 2012 an Indian student was violently raped on a moving bus in Delhi and died of horrific internal injuries. Leslee Udwin spoke to one of the rapists on death row while spending two years making a film about the case. She came away shocked by India's treatment of women - but inspired by those seeking change.

The horrifying details of the rape had led me to expect deranged monsters. Psychopaths. The truth was far more chilling. These were ordinary, apparently normal and certainly unremarkable men.

On 16 December 2012, the 23-year-old woman had been to see a film, the Life of Pi, with a male friend. At 8.30pm they boarded an off-duty bus, with six men on board, five adults and a juvenile. The men beat the friend and each raped the woman in turn, before assaulting her viciously with an iron instrument.

Mukesh Singh, the driver of the bus, described to me every detail of what happened during and after the incident. While prosecutors say the men took turns to drive the bus, and all took part in the rape, Singh says he stayed at the wheel throughout.

Along with three of the other attackers, Singh is now appealing against his death sentence. In 16 hours of interviews, Singh showed no remorse and kept expressing bewilderment that such a fuss was being made about this rape, when everyone was at it.

"A decent girl won't roam around at nine o'clock at night. A girl is far more responsible for rape than a boy," he said.

"Housework and housekeeping is for girls, not roaming in discos and bars at night doing wrong things, wearing wrong clothes. About 20% of girls are good."

People "had a right to teach them a lesson" he suggested - and he said the woman should have put up with it.

"When being raped, she shouldn't fight back. She should just be silent and allow the rape. Then they'd have dropped her off after 'doing her', and only hit the boy," he said.

Chillingly, he went on: "The death penalty will make things even more dangerous for girls. Now when they rape, they won't leave the girl like we did. They will kill her. Before, they would rape and say, 'Leave her, she won't tell anyone.' Now when they rape, especially the criminal types, they will just kill the girl. Death."

I had the long and shocking list of injuries the young woman had sustained, read out to him. I tried, really hard, to search for a glimmer of regret. There was none.

It would be easier to process this heinous crime if the perpetrators were monsters, and just the rotten apples in the barrel, aberrant in nature. Perhaps then, those of us who believe that capital punishment serves a purpose, and I am not among them, could wring their hands in relief when they hang.

For me the truth couldn't be further from this - and perhaps their hanging will even mask the real problem, which is that these men are not the disease, they are the symptoms.

My encounter with Singh and four other rapists left me feeling like my soul had been dipped in tar, and there were no cleaning agents in the world that could remove the indelible stain.

One of the men I interviewed, Gaurav, had raped a five-year-old girl. I spent three hours filming his interview as he recounted in explicit detail how he had pulled her knickers off but left her dress on, muffled her screams with his big hand, but left her nose free to breathe.

He described, in vivid detail, the child's huge terrified eyes and casually pointed out that "she didn't even know what was being inserted".

He was sitting throughout the interview and had a half-smile playing on his lips throughout - his nervousness in the presence of a camera, perhaps. At one point I asked him to tell me how tall she was. He stood up, and with his eerie half-smile indicated a height around his knees.

When I asked him how he could cross the line from imagining what he wanted to do, to actually doing it - given her height, her eyes, her screams - he looked at me as though I was crazy for even asking the question and said: "She was beggar girl. Her life was of no value."


These offences against women and girls are a part of the story, but the full story starts with a girl not being as welcome as a boy, from birth. When sweets are distributed at the birth of a boy, not of a girl. When the boy child is nourished more than the girl, when a girl's movements are restricted and her freedoms and choices are curtailed, when she is sent as a domestic slave to her husband's home… If a girl is accorded no value, if a girl is worth less than boy, then it stands to reason there will be men who believe they can do what they like with them.

I spoke to two lawyers who had defended the murderers of the 23-year-old student at their trial, and what they said was extremely revealing.

"In our society, we never allow our girls to come out from the house after 6:30 or 7:30 or 8:30 in the evening with any unknown person," said one of the lawyers, ML Sharma.

"You are talking about man and woman as friends. Sorry, that doesn't have any place in our society. We have the best culture. In our culture, there is no place for a woman."

The other lawyer, AP Singh, had said in a previous televised interview: "If my daughter or sister engaged in pre-marital activities and disgraced herself and allowed herself to lose face and character by doing such things, I would most certainly take this sort of sister or daughter to my farmhouse, and in front of my entire family, I would put petrol on her and set her alight."

He did not disown that comment when I put it to him. "This is my stand," he said. "I still today stand on that reply."

Gender-inequality is the primary tumour and rape, trafficking, child marriage, female feticide, honour killings and so on, are the metastases. And in India the problem is not lack of laws - after all, India is a democracy and a civilised, rapidly developing country. The problem is implementation of them.

Article 14 of the Indian Constitution confers absolute equal rights on women. The giving of dowry is a legal offence, but all families maintain the custom nonetheless. Until and unless the mindset changes, the cancer will thrive and continue to spread.

But what compelled me to leave my family and go to Delhi to make this film was not the rape itself, nor the horror of it. It was what followed.

Starting on the day after the rape, and for over a month, ordinary men and women came out on to the streets of India's cities in unprecedented numbers to protest. They braved a freezing December and a ferocious government crackdown of water cannons, baton charges, and teargas shells. Their courage and determination to be heard was extraordinarily inspiring.
Sign saying "This is not Hindustan this is Rapistan"

There was something momentous about their presence and perseverance - reminiscent to me of the crowds that had thronged Tahrir Square in Cairo - a gathering of civil society that demanded a conversation that was long overdue.

It occurred to me that, for all its appalling record of violence against women and relentless rapes, here was India leading the world by example. I couldn't recall another country, in my lifetime, standing up with such tenacity for women, for me. And I knew at once that I simply had to use whatever talents and skills I had, to amplify their cries of "enough is enough!" which were reverberating across the whole world.

As is often the case with extremely challenging endeavours where the human stakes are high, the main struggle for me was the emotional and psychological toll the work imposed.

When you look into the blackest recesses of the human heart, you cannot but be depressed and deeply disappointed. I woke one morning on the shoot, wet from head to toe, bathed in sweat and fear and my heart knocking against my ribcage. This was a panic attack. I phoned home thinking my husband would answer, but my 13-year-old daughter, Maya, did.

She immediately sensed I was in trouble. And when I told her, in tears, that I was coming home because this was too big for me, the mountain was just too high to scale, she said: "Mummy, you can't come home because I and my generation of girls is relying on you."

What carried me through, apart from Maya, was what had inspired me in the first place: the new-thinkers, especially among the youth, in India who want change and are clamouring for it. And I am absolutely optimistic that we are now on the cusp of change.

Obviously this was a horrific act committed by horrible people but I wanted to highlight the fact that this Sunday on BBC4 (and in India on NDTV) there will be a documentary by a British female film-maker interviewing both the rapists themselves and protesting women:

“I began this film with a narrow focus,” Israeli-born Udwin, 57, says. “‘Why do men rape?’ I discovered that the disease is a lack of respect for gender. It’s not just about a few rotten apples, it’s the barrel itself that is rotten.” Udwin was an actress before becoming an award-winning producer. Her work includes Who Bombed Birmingham?, about the miscarriage of justice that imprisoned the Birmingham Six, and East is East. For India’s Daughter she spent 30 hours interviewing rapists including Gaurav, a 34-year-old man serving 10 years for raping a five-year-old. “He told me in minute detail what he had done. How he had taken off her knickers. How her eyes were wide with fear. How he had done it front and back. I asked him how tall she was. He stood up and put his hand above his knee. I asked him, ‘How could you do something so terrible that would ruin a child’s life?’ He said, ‘She was a beggar girl, her life was of no value.’” Udwin found the girl, Neeta, now aged 10, and plans to make a film about her family’s resilience and resistance. “She is doing OK. Her mother is a beggar and has put Neeta and two other children through school.”

Central to India’s Daughter is an interview in Tahir jail, Delhi, with Mukesh Singh, driver of the bus. His brother, Ram, was found hanging in his cell months after the trial. The two lived in a Delhi slum. Also involved was Pawan Gupta, a fruit seller; Vinay Sharma, a gym assistant; unemployed Akshay Thakur; and “the juvenile”, living on the streets since he was 11. They had all been drinking before going out where “wrong things are done”.

Mukesh Singh says: “You can’t clap with one hand – it takes two hands. A decent girl won’t roam around at night. A girl is more responsible for rape than a boy … about 20% of girls are good.”

Edit: New Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUvlwmIfyx0
 

Lamel

Banned
This is...disgusting. This whole concept of honor/purity is bizarre to me. As well as life having no value if you're from a lower class. If your daughter got raped you'd burn her alive?

I refuse to believe this is common thought in India. I know there is a big problem but it can't be this bad. The dude being interviewed shows no remorse...as if he actually believes that he did nothing wrong. Good god.
 

Frog-fu

Banned
The depressing thing about this is that cutting foreign aid and sanctions will accomplish next to nothing. India severely lacks education. That needs to be fixed in order to combat such heinous crimes and rape culture.
 
Those rapists should rape the shit-filled corpses in the Ganges, catch the plague and die like dogs.

I'm surprised you didn't preface this with "I'm usually against the death penalty but".

The depressing thing about this is that cutting foreign aid and sanctions will accomplish next to nothing. India severely lacks education. That needs to be fixed in order to combat such heinous crimes and rape culture.

She describes the men as being a symptom, not the disease.
 
This is really depressing to read. Changing laws can be done relatively fast, but changing a culture? This crap is going to keep going on for decades...
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
The depressing thing about this is that cutting foreign aid and sanctions will accomplish next to nothing. India severely lacks education. That needs to be fixed in order to combat such heinous crimes and rape culture.

You're confusing me. You're talking about India like it's a rogue state. Obviously this is an issue that they have to change in their own culture.
 
Fucking hell

The interview with the rapist of that five year old...I can't even imagine a human here. It must be like looking into an abyss.
The depressing thing about this is that cutting foreign aid and sanctions will accomplish next to nothing. India severely lacks education. That needs to be fixed in order to combat such heinous crimes and rape culture.
Education AND economic mobility

All the education in the world isn't going to change what kids go back to after school (if they have anything to go back to, that is).
 
Thanks for the heads up, will watch when it airs.

These people ain't getting off death row.

The horrifying details of the rape had led me to expect deranged monsters. Psychopaths. The truth was far more chilling. These were ordinary, apparently normal and certainly unremarkable men.​

People who rape are often just regular men, and people who know the victim closely.

Chillingly, he went on: "The death penalty will make things even more dangerous for girls. Now when they rape, they won't leave the girl like we did. They will kill her. Before, they would rape and say, 'Leave her, she won't tell anyone.' Now when they rape, especially the criminal types, they will just kill the girl. Death."​

So, murderers. Wow.

For me the truth couldn't be further from this - and perhaps their hanging will even mask the real problem, which is that these men are not the disease, they are the symptoms.

Yup, their disgusting beliefs don't just come out of nowhere as if they're some mentally deranged person set out from birth to be a rapist. There's not enough education, knowledge, and empathy taught for victims of rape in society for them to realise how messed up their thinking is.

When I asked him how he could cross the line from imagining what he wanted to do, to actually doing it - given her height, her eyes, her screams - he looked at me as though I was crazy for even asking the question and said: "She was beggar girl. Her life was of no value."

There's an essential documentary called Pakistan's Hidden Shame (use hotspot shield if not in UK to watch) that is all about sexual exploitation of poor children, and interviews with the rapists. Usually happens where truck drivers hang around. Since there is no respect given to the poor, raping them is not seen as a problem.

Hope the change in beliefs in society comes soon. That last bit is some form of inspiration, at least.
 
What. The. Fuck. Utterly despicable.
Their statements are one of the most degrading sentences that I've read. Be raped and just go along, then they will just dump her + beat the accompanying man? What kind of family brought up these men?
 

nampad

Member
I hate it when people talk shit about other cultures but the things that are reported here show there are some serious issues over there.
 

Shaanyboi

Banned
Those quotes are absolutely deplorable. People want to know what evil really is - it's that. The complete detachment from all humanity to view someone as so little and disposable as you allow their complete mutilation...

The interviewer's own testament, breaking down to her daughter over the phone, is absolutely heartbreaking. I don't know how someone could have the strength to walk away from an interview like that and still be able to get out of bed the next day.
 
I'm always curious about the women who are relatives/spouses of the men who committed this act i.e. like in the case of FGM. More from the lawyer mentioned

In the interview on Sunday, Mr. Singh said that while his comments had been taken out of context and manipulated to link them to the December gang rape, he stood by his belief that premarital sex was wrong.

“I never said the woman was engaging in premarital sex or that she had a boyfriend. What happened with her was very, very unfortunate. I was specifically asked what I would do if my own daughter or sister had engaged in premarital sex,” Mr. Singh said. “There was no need to link my remarks to the gang-rape victim. I didn’t refer to her at all,” he added.

“Which father or brother would want women of their house to have premarital sex?” Mr. Singh asked. “There is nothing wrong with what I have said, which is that I will not welcome it. In fact, no Indian household in the right frame of mind would welcome this, that is reality,” Mr. Singh said Sunday.

Speaking to reporters outside a New Delhi court following the sentencing on Friday, Mr. Singh said, “if my daughter was having premarital sex and moving around at night with her boyfriend, I would have burnt her alive.”

I wonder how his daughter/sister/mother/wife feel about these comments and the cognitive dissonance if they believe in what he says.
 
India is a place full of contrasts, it's an... experience to go there I'll tell you that. They still have a lot of leftovers from British colonialism, the classism is very, very strong in there.
 

UrbanRats

Member
That is some really revolting shit, though not surprising, since we had a couple of threads on the subject in the past.

I would argue that, any time you deal with large scale atrocities, the main cultural culprit, will always be the dehumanization of a pocket of society.
It was true for the holocaust, it was true for slavery, and it is true for rape in India.
So yeah, the only clear way to fight this, is by removing that inequality, like the article points out.
 

Chuckie

Member
India is a place full of contrasts, it's an... experience to go there I'll tell you that. They still have a lot of leftovers from British colonialism, the classism is very, very strong in there.

You think classism in India is a leftover from British colonialism? It was already there before the British came, they just institutionalised it
 

wachie

Member
Chillingly, he went on: "The death penalty will make things even more dangerous for girls. Now when they rape, they won't leave the girl like we did. They will kill her. Before, they would rape and say, 'Leave her, she won't tell anyone.' Now when they rape, especially the criminal types, they will just kill the girl. Death."
Fuck.
 
India is a place full of contrasts, it's an... experience to go there I'll tell you that. They still have a lot of leftovers from British colonialism, the classism is very, very strong in there.

You think classism in India is a leftover from British colonialism? It was already there before the British came, they just institutionalised it

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the British didn't introduce the caste system.

Correct me if I'm wrong though.
 
Some concerns about this documentary, taking umbrage with the title as being patriarchial, feeling like "white saviour", and localising this issue as if it's just for India. Found this interesting food for thought.

Daily O - Nirbhaya film: Solidarity is what we want, not a civilising mission (Kavita Krishnan)

The film is to be released on March 8, and we can discuss it after we have seen it. But I would like to flag some concerns about the "Daughters of India" campaign that is due to be launched in the wake of the film, and about the response to the film in India.
Framing, "white saviour", "daughter" implies "patriarchal protectionism", global problem than just India, civilised world gets to look down
Two articles about the film in the Guardian of March 1, 2015 ("UK director gets star backing for 'daughters of India' campaign", and "India's Daughter: 'I made a film on rape in India. Men's brutal attitudes truly shocked me") tell us something about this campaign.

First, the campaign's name is intriguing.

Why refer to India's girls and women as "daughters"?

Anyone who was paying attention to the movement that flooded India's streets after December 16, would have noticed the anger of the women protesters against being identified as "daughters", "mothers", "sisters" instead of as individual women in their own right. One of the most important things about that campaign was the rejection of patriarchal protectionism that offered "daughters" protection but only by denying daughters freedom. Since then, we have also seen political campaigns (in Muzaffarnagar, for instance, and also the "love jihad" bogey) unleashing hatred and violence against the minority community in the name of "saving daughters". Hailing Indian women as "India's daughters" is something India's patriarchs including Indian government's and the most anti-feminist forces in India have always done. Why does a global campaign against gender violence do the same?

Moreover, why should a global campaign against gender violence be called "Daughters of India"? Though the articles do cite statistics of gender violence from other countries too including England and Wales and Denmark, it does seem that the focus of the campaign is India. Does it seek to convey the impression that "India's daughters" are in need of a rescue mission?

The Guardian stories do in fact convey the "white saviour" impression rather strongly.

One of the articles says "India's Daughter, a powerful, brave and heart-wrenching documentary made by Leslee Udwin, provokes grief and anger but also pity for the ignorance".

In its title, one of the articles quotes Leslee Udwin saying, "I made a film on rape in India. Men's brutal attitudes truly shocked me".

Referring to the film's interviews of convicted rapists and their defenders justifying rape (more on these later), actress Meryl Streep, one of those backing the campaign, is quoted as saying that the film "forces a look at the mindset that must be made to know it has no place in the civilised world".

One article describes "Nirbhaya" as "speaking excellent English".

What comes through, then, is a sense of India as a place of ignorance and brutality towards women, that inspires both shock and pity, but also call for a rap on the knuckles from the "civilised world" for its "brutal attitudes". Nirbhaya, described patronisingly as a speaker of "excellent English" is marked approvingly as a good subject for the global rescue mission.

I have encountered such attitudes a lot from many interlocutors (journalists, media and researchers too). Every time, I have taken great care in framing my responses.

Not just India's problem
I have tried to convey that while we in India are in fact engaged in confronting the violence and discrimination against women here, it does not help for people in other countries to imagine that such brutality is India's "cultural" problem; that India's "backwardness" is the problem; or that gender violence is "worse out there in India". I have tried to point out that rating gender violence as "worse and better" in this or that part of the world does not help very much. I point out that in India, too, it is tempting to tell ourselves that women in "Muslim countries" or the Muslim community are "worse off" than Hindu women. Likewise, it is reassuring for someone in the UK or the US or France to feel pity and horror at the gender violence and brutal attitudes in India. Doing so, however, helps prevent one from recognising the "brutal attitudes" that abound in our own comfort zone, our own "culture". For each of us, whether we are in India or any other country, the most important, useful - and tough - thing to do is to recognise the "brutal attitudes" that have achieved normalcy in our own culture. To feel shocked by those attitudes when they are far away, located in the exotic other, is easy; to recognise and confront them in our own comfort zone, is much harder.

I point out that in fact, like the movement in India, there has been a global upsurge in movements against victim-blaming - the slutwalk protests, for instance, that began in Canada. Politicians in many countries - not only India - have faced protests and anger for their victim-blaming and rape culture remarks.

In response to questions about "what can we do to help", I suggest solidarity with each others' campaigns and protests and sharing of experiences, rather than "aid". There is much we can learn from struggles in each of our countries, but we will find it much harder to learn, if we imagine ourselves in the role of "rescuers". Above all, it is crucial for people in the UK or US and so on to recognise the ways in which their own country's government and corporations collude in gender violence in India today. Actions in solidarity with movements in India, would help expose and resist those ties of collusion.
Focusing on the trees and not the forest
Mukesh Singh's and Sharma's words are instances of rape culture - rape culture that is widespread, in India and all over the globe. But the stories that focus on Singh's and Sharma's interviews are framed to take away from that realisation. Instead, the responses they invoke are about how these men are brutes, animals, vile beasts and so on. Our efforts during the December 2012 movement and since were to widen the frame away from just a few "beasts" and towards the more systemic rape culture and denial of autonomy to women in homes, schools, by the state machinery, by the caste system, by communal violence.
Filming convicts in jail
One question that feminist activists in India are asking is, how was the filmmaker allowed access to convicts inside jail? Indian jail authorities otherwise prevent most human rights campaigners in India from speaking to, let alone filming, prisoners in Indian jails. Custodial torture and killings are therefore very hard to document. What was the impulse that led Tihar jail authorities to allow Udwin to interview Mukesh Singh? Could it be the same impulse that let them allow Ram Singh to be killed in the same jail?
Possible racism
I am concerned at seeing responses on social media to the interviews, vilifying "Indian men" as brutes. If solidarity with Indian struggles against misogyny and violence are overshadowed by racist profiling of Indian men, it is most disturbing. Leslee Udwin is quoted as saying that she sought to "amplify" the voices that said "enough is enough" during India's "Arab Spring" moment against rape. That is a laudable objective. But the danger is that what gets disproportionately amplified instead, is the voice and image of the "Indian man" with the "brutal mindset". Also, it is a matter of concern when the voices of the Indian movements for gender equality, cannot themselves decide or control what they wish to amplify globally; instead, the gaze of a single filmmaker (however well-meaning) and a bunch of "stars" decides what gets global amplification and what does not.

In some parts, I'm agreed on the framing but we'll have to see how it's conveyed when the docu comes out.
 
In some parts, I'm agreed on the framing but we'll have to see how it's conveyed when the docu comes out.

The reason I think it could be called India's Daughter is that one of the most common questions that you ask yourself after hearing of the attack is what if it was my daughter? The answers ranging from killing the rapists to setting her on fire.

I don't think focusing a documentary on one country absolves the western countries attitudes and behaviour towards women but it would be disingenuous to say that it isn't a larger problem in India.
 
The depressing thing about this is that cutting foreign aid and sanctions will accomplish next to nothing. India severely lacks education. That needs to be fixed in order to combat such heinous crimes and rape culture.

What a dumb fucking statement about a country that educates the vast majority of IT workforce to the western part of the world. I guess IIT means nothing these days.
 
What a dumb fucking statement about a country that educates the vast majority of IT workforce to the western part of the world. I guess IIT means nothing these days.

same as IIM. Their schools are actually really full and ultra competitive which is why so many have to travel abroad for education. I believe the person means the lower class workers but painted India as a whole, which is just ridiculous.

India may have a lot of problems, but education is not one of them.
 

UrbanRats

Member
In some parts, I'm agreed on the framing but we'll have to see how it's conveyed when the docu comes out.

Yeah some points i understand, like the problem with the title (though you are a daughter to your mother, too, and the obvious connection the author had with her daughter could be a factor).

Other points, especially coming as a critique before the doc is even out, come off as bit too defensive, like the "NotOnlyIndia" thing.
Yeah Rape Culture is a global problem, and so is gender inequality, but you can tackle the problem one pocket at a time, as long as you don't completely lose the larger context.
Seems almost like those deflecting criticism of gender representation in gaming, by going on about how it's a widespread problem, and not just gaming's.
 
Not just the brutal rapes but the systems violent oppression of women is on a whole other level. Honour killings, The dowry, Acid attacks, fire attacks. Domestic violence, Child abuse. Nightmare situation over there. The police and justice systems doesn't work for the women at all if they even come forward at all.
 
What a dumb fucking statement about a country that educates the vast majority of IT workforce to the western part of the world. I guess IIT means nothing these days.

Education means two things. Degrees do not mean anything when basic social skills are not taught in schools.

Just because kids know how to multiply does not mean they have learned social skills and manners in school.Indian schools are bad at it. No degree can solve it. Most of the religious politician who are one of the worst ever ( both hindu and muslims) are doctors and engineers.

India still has huge education problem if you just look at it black and white.
 
Education means two things. Degrees do not mean anything when basic social skills are not taught in schools.

Just because kids know how to multiply does not mean they have learned social skills and manners in school.Indian schools are bad at it. No degree can solve it. Most of the religious politician who are one of the worst ever ( both hindu and muslims) are doctors and engineers.

India still has huge education problem if you just look at it black and white.

Exactly, people from prestigious institutes can have backwards beliefs. Friggin engineers from IIT believe in shit like astrology
Sitting in New Delhi I sometimes feel like a citizen of the first world, all it takes is a look at the news reports of how this nation treats women to bring me back to reality.
At the very least most politicians agree this is a real problem in the country, now whether they do something about it is another matter
 
There's an essential documentary called Pakistan's Hidden Shame (use hotspot shield if not in UK to watch) that is all about sexual exploitation of poor children, and interviews with the rapists. Usually happens where truck drivers hang around. Since there is no respect given to the poor, raping them is not seen as a problem.

Hope the change in beliefs in society comes soon. That last bit is some form of inspiration, at least.

I saw that doco, here in Australia. I cant imagine living in an environment where sleeping with little boys is so common.
 

Skyzard

Banned
Reading statements from the lawyer of the 2012 bus gang rape and murder, the things they would say as their DEFENSE was all just victim blaming bullshit. And that's the legal defense attempt.
 
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