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Is this recent generational jump, the lowest ever(PS5/XSX/XSS)?

Elder Legend

Elder Legend

Banned
Killjoy-NL said:
Yeah, I hadn't thought about it in that way.

I said realistic AI would just be like turning everything into "online multiplayer", but just the fact that everything would feel like actual multiplayer would also be a big leap.

I do think that would still take years to work properly, yet we already have proper VR.
But this too is an irrelevant argument, the same way as I argued it's irrelevant to say VR won't go mainstream for a long time.

So maybe we're both right (if we should call it that). Lol
Click to expand...
My issue with VR is that it would be very challenging it to make it mainstream because of motion sickness as I said previously. Sure it's a leap in its own way but right now there are too many factors that are blocking it from become a standard including cost, setting it up, additonal space requirement and so on.

However, on the flip side I could see where the tech gets a lot cheaper and advanced enough that buying a PS6/Next Xbox or whatever future console the VR would already be implemented internally as part of the package out of the box. No additional devices needed or separate boxes. The visor would also come in packaged and be A LOT less bulkier than they are. That is another issue I have with VR, I do not feel like wearing a headset all the time in my room. I want to let my head breath and just feel normal. A Combo of VR tech mixed with advanced AI tech could prove for a very interesting experience overall. If you have motion sickness then you just wouldn't use it, or maybe they can create something that would not cause motion sickness. But these are questions to things we won't know until the time comes for an answer to be given.
 
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Killjoy-NL

Killjoy-NL

Member
Elder Legend said:
My issue with VR is that it would be very challenging it to make it mainstream because of motion sickness as I said previously. Sure it's a leap in its own way but right now there are too many factors that are blocking it from become a standard including cost, setting it up, additonal space requirement and so on.

However, on the flip side I could see where the tech gets a lot cheaper and advanced enough that buying a PS6/Next Xbox or whatever future console the VR would already be implemented internally as part of the package out of the box. No additional devices needed or separate boxes. The visor would also come in packaged and be A LOT less bulkier than they are. That is another issue I have with VR, I do not feel like wearing a headset all the time in my room. I want to let my head breath and just feel normal. A Combo of VR tech mixed with advanced AI tech could prove for a very interesting experience overall. If you have motion sickness then you just wouldn't use it, or maybe they can create something that would not cause motion sickness. But these are questions to things we won't know until the time comes for an answer to be given.
Click to expand...
Honestly, I don't see VR ever becoming mainstream, just for the mere fact that it completely cuts you off from the real world (that's why I can't wait until PS Portal releases, as PSVR2 is now my main means of gaming in cinema mode since my gf wants to watch soaps...).

But I don't think that's relevant to the discussion.
Other than that, I do agree with you on what you just said.
 
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Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
So far I'm generally satisfied with current gen, but as we progress things tend to be less revolutionary. I think by 2025-2027 (end of the gen) we might see something interesting from PS Studios like ND or the upcoming Death Stranding 2 that to me was the best looking game of last gen that still surpasses the vast majority of current gen games.
 
ReBurn

ReBurn

Gold Member
Killjoy-NL said:
Honestly, I don't see VR ever becoming mainstream, just for the mere fact that it completely cuts you off from the real world (that's why I can't wait until PS Portal releases, as PSVR2 is now my main means of gaming in cinema mode since my gf wants to watch soaps...).

But I don't think that's relevant to the discussion.
Other than that, I do agree with you on what you just said.
Click to expand...
As much as I like VR gaming I have a hard time seeing it becoming the primary way people play. I hesitate to speculate about whether it will be mainstream because I kind of feel like in many ways it already is. Oculus Rift kickstarted 11 years ago. There were 14 million VR headsets shipped in 2021 alone. New models are being developed and released. So I feel like it is mainstream.

The reason that I think it won't be the primary way people play is that, in spite of all of its benefits, it concentrates the negatives of modern console gaming. People used to be able to come together in social settings to play games. Couch co-op and LAN parties were the way people played together. Now multiplayer games are online where only one person can play, somewhat forcing people to be alone. VR takes that and further isolates you by completely blocking out your surroundings and preventing other people from passively participating. Some people will no doubt want that but I fear that it could make people even more socially awkward and anxious.

Personally I'd rather mobile gaming get better so people could at least play together in the same physical space, even if they on different devices. PS Portal at least lets someone be present in the same space and allow for casual interaction.
 
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VulcanRaven

VulcanRaven

Member
Maybe we just haven't got that game yet that really shows the next-gen graphics. Some big studio needs to make a linear 30fps game.
 
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S

SABRE220

Member
Gojiira said:
Nope, I knew people would lol or whut, but seriously look at the fidelity of games like God of War 3, Kratos in particular looks incredible, Tlou goes without saying etc etc and they were PS3 games punching way above their weight. Remastering them was as simple as changing the resolution because the assets were THAT good already.
I stand by what I said, jumping from 720p to 1080p, frame rates and load times staying the same, asset quality being comparable, is not as big of a jump as going to full 4K/60, with possibility of 120fps, instant loading, ray tracing and every other graphical technique present on PS5.
Granted the Pro allowed for ‘4k’ resolution but that wasnt the baseline which is how a generation is defined.
Click to expand...
I think you might be playing these ps3 games on emulators but even then youre argument isnt very strong. Instead of looking at the character models you might want to compare the iq levels, consistent framerate levels and fidelity on scale. Tlou ran at 720p with aa that broke down in high contrast and it was routinely dropping down to low 20 fps and down to 18 fps in some areas and was littered with low res textures compared to uncharted 3 since it was trying to improve lighting.

The ps3 gen was absolutely atrocious in terms of framerate consistency, you had several top profile games dropping frames consistently and massively from their targets even in high profile games. Cryis2 for e.g routinely fell below 20fps as did skyrim and fallout while not even hitting 720p, hell even the premier shooter that prides itself on responsiveness cod routinely dropped to 40fps while targeting 60fps.


www.google.com

Call of Duty: Black Ops - Xbox 360/PS3 Gameplay Frame-Rate Comparison

Frame-rate analysis of the PS3 and Xbox 360 versions of Black Ops in similar gameplay situations. This shows how the tech operates across the run of play.Dig...
www.google.com www.google.com

You say asset quality is comparable between ps3 to ps4 with a straight face and then claim that there is a consistent jump to 4k/60 on the ps5? The jump in asset quality from ps3 to ps4 was massive and easily trumps the jump from ps4 to ps5, not to mention that a large portion of next gen games that are actually using the new techniques like you mentioned raytracing gi etc are running at 900p or even below with significantly worse image quality then the top tier ps4 titles.

Lets compare your first example tlou now keep in mind this pushed the ps3 to the point it was falling to as low as 20fps and not even close to a consistent 30fps.


Heres tlou2 at a locked 30fps.




This is killzone2 a graphics beast on the ps3 (amazing graphics for its time albeit low res textures)

This is killzone shadow fall a launch title on the ps4 at locked 30fps and with 60fps multiplayer.

This is call of duty on the ps3 running at like 560/600p at 40ish fps with an absolutely butchered fov.

This is the ps4 cod at solid 60fps.

Lets not even get into the open world games where the difference becomes absolutely massive, Im not sure what youve been seeing but the jump from ps3 to ps4 absolutely trumps the graphics jump this gen.
 
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_Ex_

_Ex_

Member
Rickyiez said:
True next gen jump for me is OLED
Click to expand...

Then I was playing next gen 12 years ago.

1280px-PlayStation-Vita-1101-FL.jpg
 
Gojiira

Gojiira

Member
SABRE220 said:
I think you might be playing these ps3 games on emulators but even then youre argument isnt very strong. Instead of looking at the character models you might want to compare the iq levels, consistent framerate levels and fidelity on scale. Tlou ran at 720p with aa that broke down in high contrast and it was routinely dropping down to low 20 fps and down to 18 fps in some areas and was littered with low res textures compared to uncharted 3 since it was trying to improve lighting.

The ps3 gen was absolutely atrocious in terms of framerate consistency, you had several top profile games dropping frames consistently and massively from their targets even in high profile games. Cryis2 for e.g routinely fell below 20fps as did skyrim and fallout while not even hitting 720p, hell even the premier shooter that prides itself on responsiveness cod reoutinely dropped to 40fps while targeting 60fps.


www.google.com

Call of Duty: Black Ops - Xbox 360/PS3 Gameplay Frame-Rate Comparison

Frame-rate analysis of the PS3 and Xbox 360 versions of Black Ops in similar gameplay situations. This shows how the tech operates across the run of play.Dig...
www.google.com www.google.com

You say asset quality is comparable between ps3 to ps4 with a straight face and then claim that there is a consistent jump to 4k/60 on the ps5? The jump in asset quality from ps3 to ps4 was massive and easily trumps the jump from ps4 to ps5, not to mention the majority of the games that a large portion of next gen games that are actually using the new techniques like you mentioned raytracing gi etc are running at 900p or even below with significantly worse image quality then the top tier ps4 titles.

Lets compare your first example tlou now keep in mind this pushed the ps3 to the point it was falling to as low as 20fps and not even close to a consistent 30fps.


Heres tlou2 at a locked 30fps.




This is killzone2 a graphics beast on the ps3 (amazing graphics for its time albeit low res textures)

This is killzone shadow fall a launch title on the ps4 at locked 30fps and with 60fps multiplayer.

This is call of duty on the ps3 running at like 560/600p at 40ish fps with an abolutely butchered fov.

This is the ps4 cod at solid 60fps.

Lets not even get into the open world games where the difference becomes absolutely massive, Im not sure what youve been seeing but the jump from ps3 to ps4 absolutely trumps the graphics jump this gen.
Click to expand...

Opinions ☺️
Sorry you have such a hard time grasping the concept but you arent going to convince me that games like Demons Souls arent significant leaps ahead compared to last gen.
Cross gen games granted blur the line and usually hold back the ‘next gen version’ but everything made solely for PS5 has been leagues ahead.
 
M

Madserb2023

Member
This might be an unpopular opinion but I would prefer it if minimum standards regarding resolution and framerates were inforced. For example 4k/30, 1440p/40, 1080p/60 and that's before upscaling and frame generation. This would slow the rate of graphical improvement but at the same time ensure a level of polish. It is ridiculous that we are getting 720p/60 games. It doesn't matter how demanding the game is. This had always been the case. You could have no doubt made a game with ray tracing on the PS4, hell even the PS3 but it would have ran at 240p.
 
Raven77

Raven77

Member
Killjoy-NL said:
What does this have to do with VR being a big leap?
Click to expand...

Simply read what I was responding to. They said the biggest hurdle is entry price, thus referring to adoption / mass adoption.

That simply isn't true at all. The biggest hurdle to VR adoption is that the majority of people quickly get sick when character movement isn't teleporting around.

Personally I agree that the next big leap is VR / AR. But VR will never achieve mass adoption because of the aforementioned issue, unless they can fix it somehow. AR will though.
 
S

SABRE220

Member
Gojiira said:
Opinions ☺️
Sorry you have such a hard time grasping the concept but you arent going to convince me that games like Demons Souls arent significant leaps ahead compared to last gen.
Cross gen games granted blur the line and usually hold back the ‘next gen version’ but everything made solely for PS5 has been leagues ahead.
Click to expand...
Sure if we bring subjectivity into the equation in place of objectivity, but then one can claim that stuff like demons souls looks better than its remake etc because that's his opinion so the discussion becomes moot.
 
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Salty Popsicle

Salty Popsicle

Banned
Is there anything on the current consoles that even approaches the quality of the Infiltrator demo from 2013 and running at 60fps? I really don't think so.
 
Kataploom

Kataploom

Gold Member
Klik said:
It seems we're gonna have to wait for PS6/Xbox to get true UE5 games. I assume around year 2028.

RX 6800XT had 20TF in 2020.
RX 7800XT has around 37TF in 2023.

So in 2028 PS6 could be around 60-80TF? Thats gonna be enough for amazing graphics unless someone doesn't get stupid idea to make games at 8k res
Click to expand...
Let's just lock it at 4K and call it a day, even 1440p is amazing these days so we don't really need more pixels.

Let 8k for those people with 100" TVs that are still not satisfied but tell them to get a new a PC with top of the line GPU or GTFO.

I'm happy with how games look these days tho. Just give me great performance back and I'm ok forever.
 
Kataploom

Kataploom

Gold Member
Feel Like I'm On 42 said:
Well . .we've had 3 years and hundreds of games to see whats "happened". The obvious answer is everyone was taken in by the hype prior to launch and that the consoles were never as powerful as we thought.

I also think people didn't take into account how much more demanding the latest graphical advancements would be. Unreal Engine 5 games that are trickling in show this well, with devs having to drop resolution to insanely small numbers. Finally, Sony and MS fucked up by not developing a true DLSS counterpart because FSR2 looks like shit most of the time at low native resolutions.

Crazy how last gen with the pro consoles we had better image quality than a lot of games using upscaling this gen. We're about to see a couple disappointments coming to console in October: Lord's of the Fallen and Alan Wake 2. Lord's has already been confirmed to only be outputting at 1080p/60. Alan Wake 2 is also going to be very demanding and the devs confirmed it'll have a performance mode but that it targeted 30 fps. I'm afraid the image quality will be ROUGH for both these games.

We have hundreds of examples to gage the general capabilities of these consoles by now though.
Click to expand...
Say whatever but it's actually about "the tools"... Specially on MS side, they have some specific features to take more from their hardware that nobody use, but it's not even exclusive to them, we've seen games with kinda long loading times on PS5 like BG3 so current engines definitely need to take advantage of the tech available.

That and time/budget constraints compared to the scale devs want to manage aren't just logical imo. Maybe some devs should go back to more linear experience (not all of them, of course), see how Remedy is making AW2 so visually pleasing because they don't fall in the open world fad.
 
Muffdraul

Muffdraul

Member
SlimySnake said:
Dimishing returns wont be a thing until we hit photorealism and we are simply not there yet.
Click to expand...
Diminishing returns has been a thing since day 1. It gradually becomes more and more noticeable over time. We have reached the point where it's really fucking noticeable and obvious to anyone who doesn't stick their head in the sand and willfully deny it's existence.
 
Minsc

Minsc

Gold Member
It certainly looks weak compared to the recent handheld generational jump from 3DS > Switch.
 
F

Feel Like I'm On 42

Member
ReBurn said:
As much as I like VR gaming I have a hard time seeing it becoming the primary way people play. I hesitate to speculate about whether it will be mainstream because I kind of feel like in many ways it already is. Oculus Rift kickstarted 11 years ago. There were 14 million VR headsets shipped in 2021 alone. New models are being developed and released. So I feel like it is mainstream.

The reason that I think it won't be the primary way people play is that, in spite of all of its benefits, it concentrates the negatives of modern console gaming. People used to be able to come together in social settings to play games. Couch co-op and LAN parties were the way people played together. Now multiplayer games are online where only one person can play, somewhat forcing people to be alone. VR takes that and further isolates you by completely blocking out your surroundings and preventing other people from passively participating. Some people will no doubt want that but I fear that it could make people even more socially awkward and anxious.

Personally I'd rather mobile gaming get better so people could at least play together in the same physical space, even if they on different devices. PS Portal at least lets someone be present in the same space and allow for casual interaction.
Click to expand...

Did you just write an essay about single player gaming being inherently worse than multiplayer? Single player gaming has been around since the beginning and has always been the largest sector
 
F

Feel Like I'm On 42

Member
Killjoy-NL said:
That's how you interpret the question. I'm talking about the tech/experience.

Being a big leap has nothing to do with the tech becoming mainstream.
Nor was it the question of the OP.


Sure, AI can be a big leap as well, but VR virtually put you IN the game.

That's as transformative as going from 2D to 3D.

Edit:

And tbh, if AI in games would be at least as smart as us, it would be like playing online multiplayer.
We've done that for years, so I wouldn't consider that as big of a leap as AI in that sense...

Same goes for something like dialogue, it's just an improved version of randomly generated content.
We've already had that for years as well.
It wouldn't be as big of a change for experience as VR is.
Click to expand...

I havnt even bought a PSVR, have never even tried it but ever since I was a little kid i thought VR was the end goal. It would be such a shame if for whatever reason it never takes off and we have to wait another 20-30 years before some company gives it another try.

I'm still waiting for the games library to improve before getting a psvr 2
 
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