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JezC:EU may also force console companies to open up their platforms. Microsoft would be there day one. But Sony isn't just going to let them do that.

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This is what you call the Overton window of gaming: say some unthinkable like "We want game pass on our competitor / get the government involved to let is become acceptable to the consumer later. stay focus ppl

They are trying real hard to make gaming into a platform service, a digital market place which allows them to suggest such a idea

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all Nintendo and Sony have to do is double down on their software / OS / and hardware in a way where a game pass- like services are not compatible.
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
You don't buy a console if that's what you want. It's ludicrous to expect gamepass on Sony.
It's absolutely mind boggling that we're at a point where xbox fans are wanting laws to be passed that help their favourite brand, what the fuck is happening here.
When there were posts saying Bethesda/ABK games would be on PS you and others laughed, yet here you are begging for the exact same thing in the opposite direction.
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Why is everyone melting down over "game pass on Sony".

My first post in this topic was about more reseller options on consoles like how PC's have different storeronts.

Sony are currently in a lawsuit about a similar thing.

Many people have talked about how it'll be better if there are more content buying options for people on the console eco-systems on this very forum.

Let's not pretend this is suddenly a toxic subject just because Jizz said it.
 
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Why is everyone melting down over "game pass on Sony".

My first post in this topic was about more reseller options on consoles like how PC's have different storeronts.

Sony are currently in a lawsuit about a similar thing.

Many people have talked about how it'll be better if there are more content buying options for people on the console eco-systems on this very forum.

Let's not pretend this is suddenly a toxic subject just because Jizz said it.

Keep your resellers and whores off my console
 

WitchHunter

Member
This is literally a similar nonsense argument as the ‘Xbox should buy Nintendo’…When the fuck will people realise that what the US wants, or the EU wants is irrelevant, JAPAN is its own country, with its own laws and interests and they DO NOT have to bow to American or European whims…
Sure, but if they wanna sell their shit in the EU, they must oblige the rules or face exorbitant fines. I agree with a lot of the regulation going on in the EU, but this feels a bit strange. Who will playtest the game and for what price? How will Sony protect the underlying freebsd operating system, in order to avoid exploits and the like when all kinds of canopy monkeys are allowed free roam in the ecosystem?
 
Phil already laid out how making great games wouldn't change their 3rd place position he also expressed having a plan to win before the generation started so of course they'll resort to changing the industry if it means they'll be on top damn the consequences they'd rather see the industry crash and burn if they can't be number 1 they have enough money to build it back up

That's the scary part. The scarier part is there are legions of fans who can't see the obvious, or want to conveniently ignore it, simply so their plastic of choice can finally get a W over another piece of plastic.

Scorched earth policy, in a nutshell.

Why is everyone melting down over "game pass on Sony".

My first post in this topic was about more reseller options on consoles like how PC's have different storeronts.

Sony are currently in a lawsuit about a similar thing.

Many people have talked about how it'll be better if there are more content buying options for people on the console eco-systems on this very forum.

Let's not pretend this is suddenly a toxic subject just because Jizz said it.

Consoles are not PCs. Simple as that.

Plus that lawsuit IMO is a gateway for a broader push to classify consoles as PCs and force open the ecosystems, get rid of platform licensing cuts, so on and so forth.
 
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Kataploom

Gold Member
Consoles are closed platforms, they're sold like closed platforms, not general purpose computers so they shouldn't be removed from that benefit. Phones and computers are different in my opinion, even then I don't like when states get their hands in well functioning business "just because".

What I'd support is they not allowing companies to prohibit people fixing their own devices, but operative systems in a close environment shouldn't be open to everyone, I remember some switch stuff mining crypto a while ago and Nintendo stopped them by removing it from the store. Stuff like that are some of the reasons why people WANT close environment.
 
Really BAD 3p games.
But I noticed it's not crashing the Nintendo Switch. That store is chock full of bad 3p games and the market isn't crashing this time.
1980's was a different way of living.

Apple and European laws have set the precedent for this happening on console.
Razorblade model is a concept that now has to be fought to exist rather than something consumers actively want.
Only the console warriors are vocal on this matter. Protect the device at all costs mentality.

I would hope that gamers would look at their wallets instead of a logo. Makes the world a more friendly place to interact with.

And you get to keep your precious device either way.

The razorblade model isn't about protecting consoles at all costs. It's about understanding how that model actually benefits customers. Our consoles would be costing $800 or even up to $1000 if that model didn't exist, there is no way most companies can realistically subsidize the hardware R&D, production & manufacturing costs at a scale of millions without running themselves into the ground...

...except companies like Microsoft, due to how much revenue they regularly pull in. And even they don't want to really do away with that business model.

You're just repeating altruistic messages that ignore a simple fact: the only way to reach that point in the market as it currently exists, is if one particular company happens to massively benefit from it, at the expense of others. It's one thing when it happens through fair competition and the customers themselves choose which product wins and which looses. This is a whole different thing altogether.

The main reason the shovelware on Switch hasn't dragged that platform down is because Nintendo barely promotes it for starters, and it's all digital. So brick & mortar stores aren't being saddled with tons of useless crap that isn't selling, and aren't dealing with companies who won't buy back their unsold stock. I think that's the biggest reason for the crash, so when you remove physical from the equation it's mostly mitigated.

But physical is still a big part of the market, at least on PlayStation and Nintendo platforms, for many reasons. So if what happens (likely) with smartphones ends up happening with consoles, the problems that happened in the early '80s would risk happening to some degree again since Sony & Nintendo make up the majority of console market share.

I was referring to Azure and Office. Anticompetitive practices for both is rather thin on the ground.

You don't become a multi trillion dollar company if nobody wanted what you sell.

Oh there were definitely anticompetitive practices involved with growing Office. Lotus 123 and the company that made the .zip compression standard among them. At the very least Office proliferation was bolstered by money made in Windows, which grew its market share through various anticompetitive practices (back when regulators didn't care because the tech industry itself was so massive and booming at the time).

Of course there are people who want to use their products but like someone else said ITT, that's mainly driven by businesses and industry, in a lot of cases due to legacy support and just out of long-term habits. Regular customers don't really have much a choice with PC, it's either Windows or Linux and Linux is still seen as the harder OS to use (a lot easier to work with today vs. decades ago however). In other markets like gaming, smartphones etc. where there is ample competition, Microsoft is one of the last choices.
 
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EU, a market of hundreds of millions of people and the richest in the world:

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Do you thinks Nintendo will succeed where Apple, Google, Meta didn’t (GDPR)?

Nintendo (and SIE) are different companies compared to them. They aren't Big Tech, for starters. And their products are non-essential, non-general computing devices.

Some of you seem to keep forgetting those points. They're important for distinguishing key differences.
 

ZoukGalaxy

Gold Member
I really don't want this on a Nintendo or Sony platform, just look at the Google Play ultra mega giga deluxe mess.
Microsoft is already a mess in every aspect so it won't change anything for them 😹
 

diffusionx

Gold Member
This stuff isn't arbitrary. I'm not European but I don't see how the regulations they set up that are forcing companies to act as gatekeepers apply to consoles, and I don't see Jez explaining it either. Until proven otherwise, he's talking out his ass.
 
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Fabieter

Member
What state?

If the EU tells Apple to get rid of their lightning port, what can they do but comply?

Do you know how apple did that? Its not worth it to use non apple port on an iphone. This won't go anywhere and seriously it also shouldn't.
 
Microsoft spend millions (or do you think it billions?)building the Windows ecosystem and that is wide open for anyone to release whatever they want and reach their whole install base.

Everyone goes to some really creative mental gymnastics to say how this is somehow different, but fundamentally it really isn’t.
It's lovely watching them suffer from the idea that their beloved corpos would do something consumer-friendly. I think this is more sad than having the consoles locked. Adults (I hope they aren't) are feeling bad because consumers might have more rights over their beloved corpos. Truly depressing.
 

Crayon

Member
Not gonna lie, being able to sideload a bespoke version of Steam OS into my Series X to use as a reasonable gaming rig would be fucking awesome.

If I could load an os of choice on consoles, I would replace at least one PC with a future gen when the time comes. The devices would sort of have to morph and surely be more expensive but you would still get some very well engineered hardware for the price. The flip side being that you can't upgrade aside from replacing it wholesale.
 

twilo99

Member
Do you know how apple did that? Its not worth it to use non apple port on an iphone. This won't go anywhere and seriously it also shouldn't.

Apple was told to switch the iPhone to USB-C and they did.
Apple is told to allow 3rd party stores on iOS and they will comply.

The EU have nerfed Microsoft and Google mutliple times, and they comply.

Not sure how Sony or Nintendo wouldn't comply with the EU, unless of course they don't want to sell their hardware there...
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Or get emulation back on the Series consoles.

It's still there with dev model which essentially is the same as sideloading like Pork said.

Edit: dev mode isn't t free though so I guess not the same thing exactly.

I use the PS2 emulator on it a lot more than on my laptop, cause the lappy is pretty old now.
 
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T-0800

Member
Imgagine if Sony and Nintendo's response was to only sell physical games. Retailers would be over the moon.
 
Not gonna lie, being able to sideload a bespoke version of Steam OS into my Series X to use as a reasonable gaming rig would be fucking awesome.

Then tell Microsoft to make Xbox consoles into Xbox PCs and you could get that and a whole lot more.

This is on them; they're the ones who want to impose a business model for one type of product onto a completely different type of product. Or at least, they have no problem with trying to muddy those waters, since they would stand to benefit more than anyone else.

Apple was told to switch the iPhone to USB-C and they did.
Apple is told to allow 3rd party stores on iOS and they will comply.

The EU have nerfed Microsoft and Google mutliple times, and they comply.

Not sure how Sony or Nintendo wouldn't comply with the EU, unless of course they don't want to sell their hardware there...

If the EU forced those conditions it could only be done on fraudulent grounds and I'd 100% support Nintendo and Sony removing their products out of that territory.

Like it's been mentioned countless times, Apple, Microsoft, Google...they are all Big Tech companies and products like the iPhone are in completely different markets not to mention much more of a requirement to function in modern society, as general-purpose computing devices. Consoles are purpose-built for gaming and have a business model suited for that, which has served the market well for decades.

The only ones who want to change that are those who failed to successfully compete on that business model of their own hubris, and fans of those companies blindly going along just to show support. Or, people who are blinded by "pro-consumerism" messages mistaking any such changes for something other than enabling specific companies to obtain even more power through redefining entire markets to worm away market share from competitors.

If I could load an os of choice on consoles, I would replace at least one PC with a future gen when the time comes. The devices would sort of have to morph and surely be more expensive but you would still get some very well engineered hardware for the price. The flip side being that you can't upgrade aside from replacing it wholesale.

Again, the company best in position to do that right now, Microsoft, doesn't want to do it with their own consoles because what you want isn't what they want. They want to siphon users from other platform ecosystems to their own, via opening up more backdoors and using trojan horse tactics, even if that destabilizes the entire business model console gaming has successfully used for decades.

And again, I'm sure Microsoft aren't the only company that would like this type of thing to happen, but they are one of the loudest voices in support of it and one of the biggest by far in favor. None of this is for pro-consumerism, especially not long-term. You are letting your own desires distract you from the bigger play and what's at stake.
 
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reinking

Gold Member
It's still there with dev model which essentially is the same as sideloading like Pork said.

Edit: dev mode isn't t free though so I guess not the same thing exactly.

I use the PS2 emulator on it a lot more than on my laptop, cause the lappy is pretty old now.
With additional markets it could go back to what it was before without having to use dev mode since it seemed that it was basically acting as a different "store front."

With dev mode, once installed do you have to phone home or anything? I don't play my Series X a lot because I have been playing those games on PC out of convenience (Series X is in a backroom, PC is not). I need to look into dev mode emulation since I would not be switching from dev to retail mode a lot.
 
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adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
With dev mode, once installed do you have to phone home or anything? I don't play my Series X a lot because I have been playing those games on PC out of convenience (Series X is in a backroom, PC is not). I need to look into dev mode emulation since I would not be switching from dev to retail mode a lot.

Once you install dev mode, you may as well keep it in that mode indefinitely. There's no check ins required and it's only a one time license purchase. US price for the license is $20 but if you use Turkey or Argentina region, it's equivalent of $2.
 

SHA

Member
I don't really understand what they say, did fanboys started the console exclusivity or grown-ups?
 
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Crayon

Member
Again, the company best in position to do that right now, Microsoft, doesn't want to do it with their own consoles because what you want isn't what they want. They want to siphon users from other platform ecosystems to their own, via opening up more backdoors and using trojan horse tactics, even if that destabilizes the entire business model console gaming has successfully used for decades.

And again, I'm sure Microsoft aren't the only company that would like this type of thing to happen, but they are one of the loudest voices in support of it and one of the biggest by far in favor. None of this is for pro-consumerism, especially not long-term. You are letting your own desires distract you from the bigger play and what's at stake.

Didn't say it was a good idea for the health of the he market. Just that I might enjoy some things about it till the wheels fall off. I agree with you. It's a farce and fucking up the console market is not a bug but a feature.
 

diffusionx

Gold Member
Apple was told to switch the iPhone to USB-C and they did.
Apple is told to allow 3rd party stores on iOS and they will comply.

The EU have nerfed Microsoft and Google mutliple times, and they comply.

Not sure how Sony or Nintendo wouldn't comply with the EU, unless of course they don't want to sell their hardware there...
Sure. Except. There's a whole process in place to allow the EU to apply these regulations. That process determined that Apple was subject to it... but NOT Sony and NOT Nintendo. Microsoft is subject to it, but I am pretty sure that Windows is already in compliance.

Isn't the fact that Sony and Nintendo not subject to this kind of important? Jez is just really irresponsible here. If anyone has any indication that EU is planning to designate these companies as gatekeepers subject to this regulation please post it in this thread.
 
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NEbeast

Member
Why is everyone melting down over "game pass on Sony".

My first post in this topic was about more reseller options on consoles like how PC's have different storeronts.

Sony are currently in a lawsuit about a similar thing.

Many people have talked about how it'll be better if there are more content buying options for people on the console eco-systems on this very forum.

Let's not pretend this is suddenly a toxic subject just because Jizz said it.
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