LectureMaster
Member
Not that tried to ditch the context but the title didn't allow enough words. He was mainly defending the accusation that average development team at BGS lacks passion for their game.
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Larian Director of Publishing on Starfield criticism when compared to Baldur's Gate 3 : "It's a leadership problem.... "
- Thread starter LectureMaster
- Start date
- Clickbait
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
James Sawyer Ford
Member
Leadership problem numero uno
Agent_4Seven
Tears of Nintendo
BGS is a shitshow, not matter how and from which angle you look at them and what they're doing. They've managed to almost beat F76 with this one as being one of the worst games they ever made. Don't even get me started on the very basic things that should be in the game and yet there's none. But hey, modders will fix everything for us and make our games playable and they'll do that for free, well, as in they won't get payed but we'll get paid instead for allowing them to make our work for us. How in the world they're still getting away with this?
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A Most Virtuous Cat
Banned
Yea I dont think the development team "pour their hearts into the project". Most of the devs just work to make a paycheck and feed their families. Only some may truly "care".
Pejo
Member
Isn't that any job though? I don't see a reason to be extra hard on game developers because of it. I think expectations should be in place. You have smaller development studios that put their heart into their modest projects and then you have AAA bi-yearly release sports games and shooters etc where I imagine there's very little room for individual developer creativity. It's building assets, building animations, models, etc.
I actually agree that specifically decision makers and project managers should take the brunt of the shit. It's their fault that poor quality games release with huge delays and questionable decisions. I feel like everyone just hugs each other and has free cake for the first 4.75 years of a 5 year dev cycle, then suddenly realize that the game is in serious shit. That should happen far far less than we see it happen.
A Most Virtuous Cat
Banned
Agree; Im just pointing out the stupidity in the Larian Director's.reply to the tweet. Essentially, he is also making a gross oversimplification by saying that low level team members pour their heart. The original tweet is talking about a general lack of passion in AAA studios (management + devs) which does appear to be the case. This just appears to be a case of a kind of virtue signalling on part of the Larian Director.
supernova8
Banned
Yeah his tweet about the "leadership problem" seems to be aimed at AAA in general, not Starfield.
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
Mark Kern seems to be putting his foot in his mouth quite a bit lately.
Cyberpunkd
Member
I find it bizarre that people think developers should somehow be immune to what happens in every other industry.
There are people doing work that are passionate, and those that do bare minimum and don’t care. It’s a fact, no need to colour the reality.
There are people doing work that are passionate, and those that do bare minimum and don’t care. It’s a fact, no need to colour the reality.
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CoreyFlawless
Member
Dude. Like why even care what Grummz. Hell for the fact he even responded to him and responded thru that. I wonder bout his leadership then. Dude made a great game and think he something now.
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
Yeah, he hasn't exactly been that popular lately with his opinions whether you agree with him or not.
vaibhavpisal
Member
Huh, weird thing to say.
I will let this pass cause I am looking forward to playing Baldurs Gate 3.
It better have Planescape Torment level writing, Wasteland 3 level quest design, Horizon Forbidden West level graphics ....
if developers are going to act smug like this.
I will let this pass cause I am looking forward to playing Baldurs Gate 3.
It better have Planescape Torment level writing, Wasteland 3 level quest design, Horizon Forbidden West level graphics ....
if developers are going to act smug like this.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
What the fuck is this thread title. And that Grummz guy exposed himself as a proper Sony warrior, huh?
The guy never once said it had anything to do with leadership unless I'm missing something.
Thread title change in 3....2...
The guy never once said it had anything to do with leadership unless I'm missing something.
Thread title change in 3....2...
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
AV
We ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space
Honestly, I like Cromwelp but calling it a "leadership problem" is also a disingenuous oversimplification. There's been a growing trend in the last few years of shifting any and all blame away from developers for making a poor product and while leadership definitely has a big hand in that, leadership aren't making every single tiny decision about a game that could improve it.
I don't make games, but I am a software dev, and I've made plenty of poor choices in my career that led to a worse product. Thankfully in my field this rarely matters too much and I can just patch it up over time based on feedback, because my sector isn't full of rabid gamers out for blood. But I just don't believe the myriad tiny issues in Starfield were all OK'd by a suit who refused to listen to any developer backlash. Did Todd, or any other bigwig at Bethesda really look at Starfield's inventory menu and say "you're not allowed to make this any better, it's perfect as it is"? StarUI is the #1 mod on NexusMods, it took one guy a few days to drastically improve it. That's a guy who identified a problem and solved it. That's a developer's job, too.
I don't make games, but I am a software dev, and I've made plenty of poor choices in my career that led to a worse product. Thankfully in my field this rarely matters too much and I can just patch it up over time based on feedback, because my sector isn't full of rabid gamers out for blood. But I just don't believe the myriad tiny issues in Starfield were all OK'd by a suit who refused to listen to any developer backlash. Did Todd, or any other bigwig at Bethesda really look at Starfield's inventory menu and say "you're not allowed to make this any better, it's perfect as it is"? StarUI is the #1 mod on NexusMods, it took one guy a few days to drastically improve it. That's a guy who identified a problem and solved it. That's a developer's job, too.
mansoor1980
Gold Member
kuncol02
Banned
And finished third act. And after so many years in EA it also shouldn't have content cut from game months before launch.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Yeah, from reading that post it looks like he is doing a larian is above all other studios smoke up the ass comment while also shipping a product with a terribly performing third act and performance issues.
They are definitely the love story of the year, so nothing wrong with feeling yourself a bit.
They are definitely the love story of the year, so nothing wrong with feeling yourself a bit.
BbMajor7th
Member
I think the 'devs can be lazy too' argument misses the fact that leadership is responsible for managing their staff, keeping folks motivated, ensuring teams are working together rather than in silos and outlining a crystal clear vision that everyone can drive towards. It's no easy task to do any of these things, but it's why leadership positions get paid so much more.
What seems to have dominated this industry in the past decade is a responsive kind of management that is constantly chopping and changing its vision in response to developments in the wider industry, or attempting to offset risk by making the same things over and again, copying others and stifling new IP and innovation. If it's boring for gamers who are already thinking 'been there done that' after a couple of hours, I can only imagine it's much worse for devs. Pair this with the pushback from both players and the industry against this type of thing - where five or six years developing a new game is rewarded by watching it get panned into the dust by critics and players - and I can see why morale would be running low.
What seems to have dominated this industry in the past decade is a responsive kind of management that is constantly chopping and changing its vision in response to developments in the wider industry, or attempting to offset risk by making the same things over and again, copying others and stifling new IP and innovation. If it's boring for gamers who are already thinking 'been there done that' after a couple of hours, I can only imagine it's much worse for devs. Pair this with the pushback from both players and the industry against this type of thing - where five or six years developing a new game is rewarded by watching it get panned into the dust by critics and players - and I can see why morale would be running low.
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Physiognomonics
Member
Well, the leadership usually take those decisions.
Wildebeest
Member
With so many people working on a game, it is just pure Hail Mary luck if so many are able to come together and create a great game. It is not like they can just freely all do what they want and each work to make the title their own dream game.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Isn't this the guy that cried about the title screen being bland? Can't say I care about his bias for Divinity 3.
Punished Miku
Gold Member
Lately?
I guess its fine to just assume Todd Howard has no passion for his dream game for 25 years. Both of these people sound like clowns.
I guess we'll see what Larian is doing in 20 years and if they're still using the same game template.
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ShaiKhulud1989
Gold Member
Larian reinvented themselves from the gound-up 3 times in recent 25+ years of their existence. If anything, Sven is a stellar leader who've been through a lot to see his RPG passion finally realizied.
In fact, I personally think that Larian is one of a few devs who can judge a two trillion company that released a game without a brightness/gamma slider, but poured hundreds of millions into marketing. Especially since BG3 is self-published.
Clintizzle
Lord of Edge.
Starfield is not a bad game.
Punished Miku
Gold Member
What were the 3 reinventions?
I think its unbelievably arrogant to judge the passion of any other game director working on a new IP. Why do it? It just sounds ridiculous to me. Starfield is literally exploding with examples of attention to detail in art and world design. I am sure they all cared a lot about the game they made.
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ShaiKhulud1989
Gold Member
1. Sven saved money and established Larian as a cRPG dev with Divine Divinity
2. After major misfires (remember that this is a Belgian studio without any major pub backing) Larian retreated to Casino games and edutainment to release a moderate success Dragon Commander and get back into the serious gaming.
3. Larian pivoted to crowdfunding with Divinity OS and OS2 and finally found their success and stability.
To make BG3, their leadership and the studio itslef been through a lot of shit. And they have first-hand experience with bad calls too. And yeah, they have a right to at least point at the source of the problem because they were there a few times already.
Passion is good, but I would take at least proper HDR features instead of tons of ads on launch lol.
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Punished Miku
Gold Member
I thought you meant game design reinventions. I dont need this guy's life story. I can see I'm wasting my time in this thread.
ShaiKhulud1989
Gold Member
We're talking about the leadership and not game desing. But ok. Divine Divinity is nothing alike of BG3, my dude.
The Cockatrice
Member
I knew it was grummz even before clicking on this thread. That dude is a massive idiot.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
The simple truth is that CORPORATE leadership typically has different priorities than those who are more focussed on the creative, or their individualistic desires for how the work is going to turn out.
Corporate is always going to be about the bottom line. Which is why even if they hand over a lot of control to an auteur figure, there's always tension. Konami versus Kojima being a perfect example.
Corporate is always going to be about the bottom line. Which is why even if they hand over a lot of control to an auteur figure, there's always tension. Konami versus Kojima being a perfect example.
SirTerry-T
Member
Isn't this the same useless c@nt that had a breakdown over Starfield's start screen.
Total knobhead.
Total knobhead.
Guilty_AI
Member
I'd say the issue isn't so much prioritizing the bottom line, but rather when leadership is completely out-of-touch with reality and especially from their own products, team and field.
The recent case with Unity is a clear example, sure they need to increase their revenue somehow but the way they choose to do so was ridiculously bad and showcased a complete disconnect with the current market and the medium.
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GHG
Member
What not to do when you get proven wrong.
Would have just been easier for you to take it on the chin and say you were unaware.
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