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Saoshyant
Member
I actually appreciate you went and checked the numbers just to reply to my mostly ignorant comment about the situation. It's clear then that the current numbers aren't merely just apathy towards console gaming in Japan but also a week that is traditionally slow every year. That's good to know. Maybe it isn't all bad.
April 28.
The release date is listed as {2016.03.17}, so I'm guessing this is the budget re-release.
mrmickfran
Member
Mario & Sonic signed a deal with the devil confirmed.
ohyouagain
Member
When did Konami take over the franchise ?
Dark Souls is quite tilted to the West in general.
When they announced the 8 million figure, it had done 940K in Japan versus over 7 million in the West (3.25 million of which was on PC).
I imagine Dark Souls 3's decline is a continued representation of the declining state of console gaming in Japan along with the lowered interest in console games that goes hand in hand with that.
Japanese interest in the Dark Souls in particular may be dropping as well if the previous games didn't line up well with domestic tastes. Dark Souls 2 was already a decline from the first game and Bloodborne wasn't flying off shelves.
GifGafIsTheBestGaf
Member
it is up to us gaf, we gottta save the JRPG market
ULTROS!
People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
It'll be nice if SO5 pulled a Ni no Kuni, heh.
Don't underestimate the granny panties demographic!
Sectorseven
Member
Did Japan never even have a real core base, or was it always this small? I can understand the masses transitioning to mobile, but consoles are a fundamentally different experience and shouldn't be this much of a ghost town.
GhostTrick
Banned
twothunder
Member
pretty slow week
01./01. [3DS] Yo-Kai Sangokushi <SLG> (Level 5) {2016.04.02} (¥4.600) - 90.196 / 359.712 (-67%)
Yo-kai conquest doing pretty well
02./03. [3DS] Dragon Quest Monsters: Joker 3 <RPG> (Square Enix) {2016.03.24} (¥5.250) - 49.847 / 517.146 (-49%)
DQM3 still doing decent numbers but pretty low compared to earlier games
04./00. [3DS] Disney Art Academy <HOB> (Nintendo) {2016.04.07} (¥3.700) - 17.717 / NEW
pretty decent numbers I guess
06./02. [PS4] Star Ocean: Integrity and Faithlessness <RPG> (Square Enix) {2016.03.31} (¥7.980) - 10.386 / 123.408 (-91%)
I know big drops are expected but wow. 90% drop is really bad
07./05. [WIU] Pokken Tournament # <FTG> (Pokemon Co.) {2016.03.18} (¥7.200) - 8.065 / 120.366 (-44%)
Nice to see some legs. Reach 150K Pokken !
10./07. [3DS] Mario & Sonic at the Rio 2016 Olympic Games <SPT> (Nintendo) {2016.02.18} (¥4.700) - 6.666 / 136.148 (-35%)
Numbers for M&S stay pretty good
08./06. [PSV] Minecraft: PlayStation Vita Edition <ADV> (Sony Computer Entertainment) {2015.03.19} (¥2.400) - 7.374 / 730.853 (-31%)
09./11. [WIU] Splatoon # <ACT> (Nintendo) {2015.05.28} (¥5.700) - 6.902 / 1.325.502 (-15%)
11./16. [WIU] Super Mario Maker # <ACT> (Nintendo) {2015.09.10} (¥5.700) - 5.892 / 840.123 (+21%)
20./23. [3DS] Yo-Kai Watch Busters: Red Cat Team / White Dog Squad <ACT> (Level 5) {2015.07.11} (¥4.600) - 2.671 / 2.243.803
the legs brigade
SMM bundles help sell the game but Minecraft and Splatoon take a dip.
And busters is back for the week. those low numbers
3DS # | 24.115 | 29.807
PS4 | 23.889 | 30.081
PSV # | 13.278 | 17.153
best selling HW taking a pretty big dip
WIU | 4.963 | 3.541
Some extra SMM bundles but still sad
XB1 | 212 | 207
that great increase
01./01. [3DS] Yo-Kai Sangokushi <SLG> (Level 5) {2016.04.02} (¥4.600) - 90.196 / 359.712 (-67%)
Yo-kai conquest doing pretty well
02./03. [3DS] Dragon Quest Monsters: Joker 3 <RPG> (Square Enix) {2016.03.24} (¥5.250) - 49.847 / 517.146 (-49%)
DQM3 still doing decent numbers but pretty low compared to earlier games
04./00. [3DS] Disney Art Academy <HOB> (Nintendo) {2016.04.07} (¥3.700) - 17.717 / NEW
pretty decent numbers I guess
06./02. [PS4] Star Ocean: Integrity and Faithlessness <RPG> (Square Enix) {2016.03.31} (¥7.980) - 10.386 / 123.408 (-91%)
I know big drops are expected but wow. 90% drop is really bad
07./05. [WIU] Pokken Tournament # <FTG> (Pokemon Co.) {2016.03.18} (¥7.200) - 8.065 / 120.366 (-44%)
Nice to see some legs. Reach 150K Pokken !
10./07. [3DS] Mario & Sonic at the Rio 2016 Olympic Games <SPT> (Nintendo) {2016.02.18} (¥4.700) - 6.666 / 136.148 (-35%)
Numbers for M&S stay pretty good
08./06. [PSV] Minecraft: PlayStation Vita Edition <ADV> (Sony Computer Entertainment) {2015.03.19} (¥2.400) - 7.374 / 730.853 (-31%)
09./11. [WIU] Splatoon # <ACT> (Nintendo) {2015.05.28} (¥5.700) - 6.902 / 1.325.502 (-15%)
11./16. [WIU] Super Mario Maker # <ACT> (Nintendo) {2015.09.10} (¥5.700) - 5.892 / 840.123 (+21%)
20./23. [3DS] Yo-Kai Watch Busters: Red Cat Team / White Dog Squad <ACT> (Level 5) {2015.07.11} (¥4.600) - 2.671 / 2.243.803
the legs brigade
SMM bundles help sell the game but Minecraft and Splatoon take a dip.
And busters is back for the week. those low numbers
3DS # | 24.115 | 29.807
PS4 | 23.889 | 30.081
PSV # | 13.278 | 17.153
best selling HW taking a pretty big dip
WIU | 4.963 | 3.541
Some extra SMM bundles but still sad
XB1 | 212 | 207
that great increase
I bet these people are using SO5 JPN sales as evidence that their tactics/movement is winning against the SJW feminist illuminati: "see, "censorship" only worsens your sale".
SO5. On sale ~50%, and still no one will buy it. lol
People have said these drops will come for quite some time now, its a natural end to the quarter after the packed released schedule kept the hardware higher than normal. Last year it was, naturally, much more severe as the system was more expensive and had less of a library.
Dark Souls fatigue is a real thing. And the frame rate drops are making my desire to finish DS3 all the lower.
People have said these drops will come for quite some time now, its a natural end to the quarter after the packed released schedule kept the hardware higher than normal. Last year it was, naturally, much more severe as the system was more expensive and had less of a library.
Dark Souls fatigue is a real thing. And the frame rate drops are making my desire to finish DS3 all the lower.
Sammy Samusu
Member
[3DS] Attack on Titan: The Last Wings of Mankind - 309.477
[3DS] Attack on Titan: The Last Wings of Mankind CHAIN - 77.637
[PSV] Attack on Titan: Wings of Freedom - 1.980 / 107.896
[PS4] Attack on Titan: Wings of Freedom - Out / 105.044
[PS3] Attack on Titan: Wings of Freedom - Out / 45.868
= 258.808
[3DS] Attack on Titan: The Last Wings of Mankind CHAIN - 77.637
[PSV] Attack on Titan: Wings of Freedom - 1.980 / 107.896
[PS4] Attack on Titan: Wings of Freedom - Out / 105.044
[PS3] Attack on Titan: Wings of Freedom - Out / 45.868
= 258.808
DarkLordMalik
Member
Star Ocean 5 dropped way more than I expected. DAMN!
Low sales all around. The upcoming weeks will be only more depressing.
Low sales all around. The upcoming weeks will be only more depressing.
Possumowner
Member
Damn Star Ocean,damn.
QB in the charts,I'm guessing every single Xbox One owner in Japan bought it
QB in the charts,I'm guessing every single Xbox One owner in Japan bought it
Black Republican
Member
Delaying the PS3 ver seems stupid, poor TriAce, i love them guys 
90% is really bad
90% is really badSales used to be very strong in the region.
Here's a few example series from the PS2 era that did either quite well or absolutely great, yet have declined significantly or disappeared all together:
Hot Shots Golf 4 [All Versions]: 1,716,600
Gran Turismo 3: A-Spec [All Versions]: 1,513,700
Dynasty Warriors 4: 1,197,349
Onimusha 2: Samurai's Destiny: 1,003,874
Yakuza [All Versions]: 883,179
Tales of Destiny 2: 762,861
Star Ocean 3: Till the End of Time [All Versions]: 710,185
Devil May Cry [All Versions]: 648,173
Dragon Ball Z: Budokai 3: 642,424
Ridge Racer V: 611,507
Virtua Fighter 4: 541,973
Tekken Tag Tournament: 457,339
Romancing SaGa: Minstrel Song: 454,657
Xenosaga Episode I: Der Wille zur Macht: 453,853
Naruto: Ultimate Ninja 2: 403,157
Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria: 401,687
Rogue Galaxy: 385,649
Suikoden III: 377,729
These days we sit around debating whether or not 100-150K is a good result for things like JRPGs or fighting games.
It's crazy to think that the landscape has changed so drastically. But I don't blame publishers when they see numbers like this:
Japanese consumers sure love to spend money on mobile.
Sectorseven
Member
So where did all those gamers go? I just don't see that many core players seeing mobile and thinking "that's good enough for me." We tend to think of the Wii's install base as largely gaming "tourists." Was that the case for all platforms to a much larger extent than anyone realized?
Shouldn't? That's an assumption that society needs something like videogames. It really doesn't and entertainment exists for people to pass the time. The people who enjoy the very specific console experience above all else would be people who grew up with those experiences. They're a smaller minority now because most are much older, have jobs and family, and their interests might have shifted away from games. The younger generations are much more exposed to different types of entertainment these days and don't have that same fondness and connection with console games.
Right, it's basically a self feeding cycle.
Console sales went down as Japanese players grew older and could no longer conveniently use them due to lifestyle, and simultaneously the ones that still wanted to play games started spending a lot more time on handhelds and eventually mobile.
Investment followed, leading to less console games and more mobile games, which lead even more people toward mobile, and this kept going until we're at where we are today.
We've seen quite a few publishers whose businesses revolved around consoles (or at least a notable component of them) try and revive the scene, but this is kind of the action they needed to be taking a long time ago if they wanted to achieve anything.
Instead, we're seeing a series of games come out and do progressively less over time since the audience isn't there anymore.
The somewhat awkward situation that has dawned however is that Japanese mobile games don't do especially well overseas, whereas more core oriented consoles are doing quite well, leading to a split incentive for companies that actually had overseas success.
How each company has attempted to tackle that (ranging from doubling down to just not caring) has been varied and is still actively evolving. Probably one of the most interesting aspects of the market currently.
That's an interesting suggestion. Do you think the current state of affairs would have been avoided in some fashion? Were the Japanese market not always destined to go completely mobile? How could publishers have revived the scene a long time ago?
This must make it really difficult for executives and decision-makers, I imagine. How do you balance two contradictory markets? Is there some sort of compromise between the two?
GhostTrick
Banned
Well, truth to be told, I also think it might be related to a wrong platform and audience choice.
Star Ocean V was built around a smaller budget and was sent on PS4 because SE wish to focus on PS4 only to revitalize it in Japan.
Their mistake is to think that Japan and PS4 can carry these titles by itself. It cant. They need to realize that the audience for these titles in Japan has shrinked but still exist in West and shouldnt be considered an afterthought. They should think west and multiplatform. I'm also wondering how Nintendo's next handheld can perform there.
It's actually pretty easy for big multinational companies. You don't need to balance it. It's not either or. You can do both and market products differently. I think Bandai Namco is pretty successful on that front.
I think from a societal perspective, it was a very hard pitch to keep consoles.
I do think their behavior hastened the change however. I actually don't think there's anything wrong with that, mind, but for the companies that now seem to be regretting that, they probably do.
Outside of niche developers who don't need that many sales to survive, for people actually attempting to adjust, the trend has just been to make console games that have a reasonable chance to succeed in the West and make mobile games for the domestic market.
There are a few juggernauts who can just ignore market trends for now and then a large series of products that come out and do poorly, or at least notably worse than before.
duckroll's example of Namco is quite good. Naruto and Dragon Ball console games aren't being made for the domestic market, but Dragon Ball Z: Dokkan Battle on mobile certainly is (and is interestingly one of the only Japanese mobile games to succeed overseas, but that's a bit of a happenstance).
mejin
Member
Like Star Ocean and almost all other SE games.
Star Ocean's biggest problem is that it's not something that's an immediately obvious sell outside of Japan.
Dark Souls is a series that could actually sell zero copies in Japan and still be endlessly worth making.
Is Star Ocean something that can actually sell overseas in 2016 at sufficient volume? I don't think that's a clear yes.
Dark Souls is a series that could actually sell zero copies in Japan and still be endlessly worth making.
Is Star Ocean something that can actually sell overseas in 2016 at sufficient volume? I don't think that's a clear yes.
The junction came with the DS/Wii, and the spin of the games market into the "core" where it stands today. The take over of mobile was and is inevitable because it is simply with you at all times but there was a time when the Wii and DS also kept the attention of that audience and could have served as a crossing point between the "core" market and the "casual" market that moved on. But the industry pigeonholed itself into catering almost explicitly into the former, and the latter was under-served and... left.
And Nintendo screwed itself and that audience by its rocky transition into HD and the dearth of software on the tail-end of the Wii/DS cycles. Of course, that would have probably been avoidable if they weren't effectively the only part of the industry by then still catering to that audience with new experiences.
The change over was, however, inevitable barring some massive other reinvigoration of the market on the level of the Wii/DS.
They're about the only company left with consistently growing/strong IP in the market.
Thanks for the informative answers, duckroll and Nirolak.
I assume that some of the multinational companies have increasing profits in their interest, so I figured that they would want to have successful products both in Asian and NorthAmerican+European markets. That's why I thought that Japanese publishers would want to find a compromise between mobile and console/PC markets? But like you both say, compromise is not necessary and if only focusing on one thing works (or do what Bandai Namco does), then why take the risk?
Also, couldn't it be argued that before the dominance of mobile, that such a fertile situation was the case? I.e. that interest in platforms were congruent, thereby making it much easier to have domestic and international sales of the same product?
Sorry if this is a discussion and a conversation that was 5 years old and has been repeated over and over again. It's just a really interesting dilemma I think.
I assume that some of the multinational companies have increasing profits in their interest, so I figured that they would want to have successful products both in Asian and NorthAmerican+European markets. That's why I thought that Japanese publishers would want to find a compromise between mobile and console/PC markets? But like you both say, compromise is not necessary and if only focusing on one thing works (or do what Bandai Namco does), then why take the risk?
Also, couldn't it be argued that before the dominance of mobile, that such a fertile situation was the case? I.e. that interest in platforms were congruent, thereby making it much easier to have domestic and international sales of the same product?
Sorry if this is a discussion and a conversation that was 5 years old and has been repeated over and over again. It's just a really interesting dilemma I think.
There have been companies searching for the answer to this for quite some time, but it's largely failed since almost every series that's tried has either had declining sales in Japan, declining sales in the West, or declining sales everywhere.
Games like The Last Remnant and Nier are actually good examples of some of the first attempts at doing that. Square Enix is still trying to do that today with games like Final Fantasy XV, though they look like they're heading for at least a major dive in Japan, and I'm not convinced they're going up in the West versus FFXIII either.
The conclusion so far has been that it makes the most sense to just target one or the other due to the amount of cultural differences. Nintendo has the most success hitting both markets, but they're also not succeeding at that with things like older audience oriented JRPGs. Fire Emblem is probably the game with the most success in both markets that actually resembles something a third party publisher might make, but that's on a handheld, which is an increasingly limited platform overseas, and does cap out your sales lower than something like Dragon Ball: XenoVerse might hit.
DriftingSpirit
Member
Right.
Which is why I find the talk here amusing. Japan is a wasteland. These performances shouldn't be surprising and it shouldn't be the ultimate indicator of anything. It is the collective whole that matters.
Clearly they need to bring the Kenny family back to a prominent role. How prominent a member of the family is in a given Star Ocean is the most immediate measure of quality :V
DarkLordMalik
Member
Star Ocean 5 will sell more than 1 million worldwide. You guys just wait and see. It will bring Tri-ace back to the spotlight and greenlight Valkyria Chronicles 3 and Star Ocean 6, just as planned.
Japan is a dead market. Asia, Europe, Middle East and America will save Star Ocean 5.
Japan is a dead market. Asia, Europe, Middle East and America will save Star Ocean 5.
CrispyBoar
Banned
DriftingSpirit
Member
When are the Wii U stock issues expected to be resolved now?
Well, S-E keeps trying to appeal to audiences without really fully understanding who they are trying to appeal to. If they succeed, I feel it is in spite of their efforts rather than because of it. On the other hand, I would say something like Dark Souls is a great example of a developer and publisher partnership that recognizes the potential and appeal of a type of gameplay outside of Japan and maximizes that reach.
Here's my thoughts on Japan:
- IIRC they actually have a shrinking economy AND a shrinking population, which is crazy. There are literally fewer children being born each year than in the past.
- Ever since the Tsunami that took out Fukushima, it feels like everyone there has been in hardship. They appear to work long hours and have little time to spare on pasttimes or raising families.
- I totally understand why mobile is attractive. They play for half hour chunks while on the train or whatever.
- The PS3 -era decline in Japanese titles was partially the developers fault. I think there was a very real drop in quality in an absolute sense. I'm not sure if this was talent leaving companies, or problems with the toolsets used for PS3, or what. But there seriously were a lot of mediocre or straight up bad RPGs from that era that damaged the reputations of some series (and some series are straight up dead now).
- With all your favorite game series either disappearing or releasing disappointing entries, and you are now strapped for time and cash, it's only natural their interests would change.
- I still think that there's an audience for ambitious console JRPGs etc, but it might not be in Japan itself. I hope that the Japanese developers look outside their own country when thinking about these things. Just because something fails in your own country doesn't mean it won't work.
- I personally have no interest in mobile games, now or in the future. So any game there is basically non-existent to me.
- IIRC they actually have a shrinking economy AND a shrinking population, which is crazy. There are literally fewer children being born each year than in the past.
- Ever since the Tsunami that took out Fukushima, it feels like everyone there has been in hardship. They appear to work long hours and have little time to spare on pasttimes or raising families.
- I totally understand why mobile is attractive. They play for half hour chunks while on the train or whatever.
- The PS3 -era decline in Japanese titles was partially the developers fault. I think there was a very real drop in quality in an absolute sense. I'm not sure if this was talent leaving companies, or problems with the toolsets used for PS3, or what. But there seriously were a lot of mediocre or straight up bad RPGs from that era that damaged the reputations of some series (and some series are straight up dead now).
- With all your favorite game series either disappearing or releasing disappointing entries, and you are now strapped for time and cash, it's only natural their interests would change.
- I still think that there's an audience for ambitious console JRPGs etc, but it might not be in Japan itself. I hope that the Japanese developers look outside their own country when thinking about these things. Just because something fails in your own country doesn't mean it won't work.
- I personally have no interest in mobile games, now or in the future. So any game there is basically non-existent to me.