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Microsoft Accidentally reveals 21 million Xbox Series S/X and 58 million Xbox one sold.

Nydius

Member
More interested in S and X splits than total sales. Such an unprecedented move for launching a console.

Same. It’s the first time in my 46 years that I can ever recall a console maker purposely releasing a lower spec budget version of their next gen home system.

The fact that they’ve offered a budget model at almost half the price of their premium model and it has only nominally moved the sales needle compared to the previous generation has to sting for Microsoft.

What I’d like to see is split data between X and S sales, and I’d like to see a split data set between PS5 Disk and PS5 Digital Only sales. The only true like-for-like comparison we have this generation is XSX to PS5 Disk, but, unfortunately, both sales figures are obfuscated.
 
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twilo99

Member
I don't think the price is great right now. 349 for the 1TB is insanely high and 260 for the 500GB is too much too, because prices were already down to 199 Euros last year for a few weeks.

$260 is a great price .. what are you comparing it against?
 
For some reason I thought og xbox was like 20 odd million lifetime.:/

Nah, it did a bit better than that. I think 20 million were the Gamecube's numbers (could be wrong; apparently a bit north 21 million by Luminoth-4545 Luminoth-4545 's post); OG Xbox edged it out to get around 25 million

I did not realize this....

Same.

I think ...for know....this puts things in perspective. Obviously its gonna sell more than the og Xbox.

Kinda makes sense why MS isnt really open to sharing console sales.

Even so, it says a lot considering Nintendo were still willing to share Wii U's numbers, and that system performed horribly.

The Xbox One number is going to be adjusted up to 58 million and it is almost one million per year short but at least the Series S/X are spot on. However we shouldn't even have to estimate though because Sony have shown quarterly sales since 2007 and Nintendo have shown quarterly sales since 2001. Still i am really surprised that Xbox One hit 58 million, historically that is pretty good and only 4 million short of the NES.

It's also higher than the SNES by about 10 million. But honestly, I think it shows more how much bigger the market is today compared to say 4th gen. If the XBO were a system released at that time, it would have likely done at best 1/3 of what it actually ended up doing, or ~19 million.

Now that we know the Xbox One total sales then i think it will be a struggle for Xbox Series to match it.

Yep, and that's the worrying part. If the trend continues, if XBS maintains even OG Xbox 3rd year rate for the next 4 years, and assuming this generation ends in 2027, total XBS sales would reach 45.8 million. If the gen ends in 2028, I wouldn't expect XBS to retain 3rd year OG Xbox sales rate, but even if it did, it'd only reach 52 million.

If they can't get the system to start tracking at XBO levels again, expect a sharp decline in lifetime unit sales. If it drops below even a 6.2 million/average, it'll easily drop below 50 million lifetime.
 
So how much for just XBSX?
12-14 million?

Lower. I always assumed the split was 60:40 favoring the S. So with 21 million, that'd make 8.4 million for the X :/

Same. It’s the first time in my 46 years that I can ever recall a console maker purposely releasing a lower spec budget version of their next gen home system.

The fact that they’ve offered a budget model at almost half the price of their premium model and it has only nominally moved the sales needle compared to the previous generation has to sting for Microsoft.

What I’d like to see is split data between X and S sales, and I’d like to see a split data set between PS5 Disk and PS5 Digital Only sales. The only true like-for-like comparison we have this generation is XSX to PS5 Disk, but, unfortunately, both sales figures are obfuscated.

Dunno the splits, but for a while PS5 Digital was so elusive that it was basically a meme. Like Sony "technically" made it, but just to win bragging points on a lower price when in reality you could only find PS5 Disc for 2020-2021 realistically.

I'd imagine the splits are better now. Maybe not 50:50, probably 60:40 in favor of PS5 Disc (prior to that it was probably closer to 80:20, maybe even 85:15...just guessing here).
 

gothmog

Gold Member
Mods changed the thread title based on the post above yours, which was only speculation but who knows if this was by accident or intentional. At least we have numbers now.
I work for a FAANG or whatever they're called these days. Your slide deck goes nowhere near an event without going through a full media team of lawyers, marketers, and PR people dedicated to speaker events. There's almost no way this was an accident.
 

Akuji

Member
took me a minute that my brain understood that they have only sold 21m of the current gen.
i was under the impression they pushed hard to sell many xbox consoles while playstation was unable to keep stock.

no wonder they didnt communicate these numbers. PS5 was at 38.5m in april.
that also explains why its so hard for xbox to get some titles. If your expected customer base isnt America or GB then the 2/1 will most likely turn to 4/1 or worse.
Making a console port for 20% potential customer base that may also have a ps5 as well isnt the smartest move if the game still has problems and your team is better spent at optimizing the competing plattform version.

Hope xbox can turn it around. The more competition the better for the customer.
 

yurinka

Member
Is Series S/X tracking to sell more than xbox one? Or is it the same or less?
Series performs worse than XBO, which performed worse than 360.

PS5 improves PS4, which improved PS3.

Since the 360+PS3 gen the trend is that PS keeps improving while XB keeps decreasing.

The tracking is PS5>PS4>PS3>360>XBO>Series.

I assume shifting their focus to release day one all their games to PC and GP, plus having cloud gaming even in mobile is helping them to slowly reduce their console userbase.
 
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mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
took me a minute that my brain understood that they have only sold 21m of the current gen.
i was under the impression they pushed hard to sell many xbox consoles while playstation was unable to keep stock.

no wonder they didnt communicate these numbers. PS5 was at 38.5m in april.
that also explains why its so hard for xbox to get some titles. If your expected customer base isnt America or GB then the 2/1 will most likely turn to 4/1 or worse.
Making a console port for 20% potential customer base that may also have a ps5 as well isnt the smartest move if the game still has problems and your team is better spent at optimizing the competing plattform version.

Hope xbox can turn it around. The more competition the better for the customer.

Now consider the split between all PS5 vs. the Xbox Series X. Nowadays it's probably 43 million to 9 million.
 

demigod

Member
VGChartz was not accurate. What you're seeing is updated data that they corrected after other (more reliable) sources shared significantly different data.

They were advertising more than 20 million at the start of December 2022.



If Xbox is now at 21 million, does this mean that Microsoft has sold only 1 million units in the last 7 months? That's obviously incorrect.

Microsoft reports shipped numbers. Vgchartz reports sold to consumers. Consoles sold to consumers are probably under 21mil.
 

Nubulax

Member
Now consider the split between all PS5 vs. the Xbox Series X. Nowadays it's probably 43 million to 9 million.
Ya which is why im always a bit....im not sure of the word.... questioning...on how Xbox specific games run on the Actual Series S for future games. The game can look great on Series X but what does it run like on the S...dont hide it now... half (or majority) of your playerbase has an S
 
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I work for a FAANG or whatever they're called these days. Your slide deck goes nowhere near an event without going through a full media team of lawyers, marketers, and PR people dedicated to speaker events. There's almost no way this was an accident.

It may have been done to put closure on the one, and showcase that that's a decent amount of consoles that have been sold to go along with that announcement that they are releasing a new 1TB model and Starfield+Forza is coming soon to finally remove the cobwebs in the game library.

It's a good strategy to make devs feel like there's confidence. If it was an accident I wouldn't know what Microsoft Brazils reason would be since it was a low key event originally. I find it very hard to believe that this was a mistake and Microsoft hasn't as far as I've seen even commented on the presentation yet.
 
21 million and PS5 is around 38 million or so. Sony has gained a substantial lead and is ahead nearly two to one already in this gen. This is what happens when you have Phil Spencer pushing gamepass and putting exclusive games everywhere else. Your console becomes less relevant by the day. Phil needs to be replaced with someone who can hopefully turn things around by believing in making great AAA exclusives and selling consoles. It can be done but Phil has to go first. As long as he remains in charge, the console sales will continue to decline for Xbox as they are clearly not his focus.
 
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SF Kosmo

Al Jazeera Special Reporter
That's... Respectable, I guess you would say, given their market share last gen. We'll see how it plays out now that bigger titles are on the horizon on both sides
 

MarkMe2525

Member
They put it in a presentation... what about this is accidental?

VGChartz was not accurate. What you're seeing is updated data that they corrected after other (more reliable) sources shared significantly different data.

They were advertising more than 20 million at the start of December 2022.



If Xbox is now at 21 million, does this mean that Microsoft has sold only 1 million units in the last 7 months? That's obviously incorrect.

It looks like they were way off.
 
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The worse news is that series s/x has been in decline yoy in only its 3rd year on the market. This shouldn't be happening so early.
SFZaNoD.jpg

it seems Xbox is gearing up for round 2.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
That's... Respectable, I guess you would say, given their market share last gen. We'll see how it plays out now that bigger titles are on the horizon on both sides

I'm surprised people say this as MS is on their way to sell less than the Xbox One generation, whereas Sony is projecting to sell more than the PS4 generation.
 

Mr.Phoenix

Member
Hold on.. am I in the twilight zone or something?

  1. We have all guesstimated that the XB1 did over 50M lifetime. Or better put, was outsold by the PS4 by 2 to 1. That would mean if the PS4 did 120M, then our projections were that the XB1 did 60M. So why is this 58M surprising anyone when its been the common consensus that the PS4 won by 2 to 1.

  2. Am I the only one that notices that 58M in 7 years, averages out to around 8M consoles sold per year? And that's impressive?

  3. Or that at its current 21M sales, it tracking at around the same 8M sales per year from the previous generation.

I don't know..I am trying to see how any of this is good. I mean, for me, coming from the OG Xbox to the 360... now that was good. They gained market share. Went from selling 24M consoles to selling 85M+ in the 360. But going from the 360 to the XB1, they lost market share... and now they are tracking similarly... how is this a good thing? Is this like giving someone an also participated trophy? A celebration in mediocrity? Or like that gif where that guy that comes third celebrates harder than first and second.

What am I missing here? So basically, if the XSX consoles do like 50-60M... it would be considered a success?
 
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The Fuzz damn you!

Gold Member
This update makes PS4 + XBO more sucessful than PS3 + XB360.
PS3 + XB360: 87.40m + 85.40m = 172.80m
PS4 + XBO: 117.20m + 58.00m = 175.20m
…and, again, we see that the total potential market is not increasing in size.

IMO, MS is right to chase the market outside of just gaming. The potential there is huge, while there is simply no room for growth as it stands beyond raising prices and achieving a greater attach rate, which seem to be Sony’s strategies.
 

Vognerful

Member
Hold on.. am I in the twilight zone or something?

  1. We have all guesstimated that the XB1 did over 50M lifetime. Or better put, was outsold by the PS4 by 2 to 1. That would mean if the PS4 did 120M, then our projections were that the XB1 did 60M. So why is this 58M surprising anyone when its been the common consensus that the PS4 won by 2 to 1.

  2. Am I the only one that notices that 58M in 7 years, averages out to around 8M consoles sold per year? And that's impressive?

  3. Or that at its current 21M sales, it tracking at around the same 8M sales per year from the previous generation.

I don't know..I am trying to see how any of this is good. I mean, for me, coming from the OG Xbox to the 360... now that was good. They gained market share. Went from seeing 24M consoles to seeing 85M+ in the 360. But going from the 360 to the XB1, they lost market share... and now they are tracking similarly... how is this a good thing? Is this like giving someone an also participated trophy? A celebration in mediocrity? Or like that gif where that guy that comes third celebrates harder than first and second.

What am I missing here? So basically, if the XSX consoles do like 50-60M... it would be considered a success?
The assumption was that PS4 sold way more than 2:1, and that some reports estimated that we were close to 3:1.

…and, again, we see that the total potential market is not increasing in size.

IMO, MS is right to chase the market outside of just gaming. The potential there is huge, while there is simply no room for growth as it stands beyond raising prices and achieving a greater attach rate, which seem to be Sony’s strategies.
The worst part for companies is not only that the market is not increasing, is that younger generations are not interested in owning and spenidng on gaming as the older generations. The market might actually start shrinking than actually increase.
 

Mr.Phoenix

Member
…and, again, we see that the total potential market is not increasing in size.

IMO, MS is right to chase the market outside of just gaming. The potential there is huge, while there is simply no room for growth as it stands beyond raising prices and achieving a greater attach rate, which seem to be Sony’s strategies.
That kinda thinking is what keeps getting MS fucked up. They, like you, just don't seem to get the console business. The total number of potential console gamers remain more or less the same... its been that way for a while. Even dating as far back as the PS1 and PS2.

The reason for that is that outside of a core base of gamers, which probably only accounts for ike 30-50% of sales (and evn these are in flux too, their turnover rate is just bi/tri generational), the rest of the market is constantly in flux. People that are coming of age to game or can afford it, and people that are getting older or no longer have the time.

And there is no such thing as being in the gaming business and chasing a market outside gaming. Maybe what you mean is market outside consoles. But all you are doing is shifting your user base from actual physical boxes to subscriptions. But even those need a box to game on, be that their console.. or their PC. Don't drink the cool aid. thanks to recent events, it's been revealed that even Xbox doesn't believe in what you are saying. Even though that's the message they had been peddling.
The assumption was that PS4 sold way more than 2:1, and that some reports estimated that we were close to 3:1.


The worst part for companies is not only that the market is not increasing, is that younger generations are not interested in owning and spenidng on gaming as the older generations. The market might actually start shrinking than actually increase.
I don't know where that came from, being that as far back as 2021 the general consensus was that the XB1 had sold over 50M, and we knew how much the PS4 had sold. No way any sane thinking person pegs it at 3 to 1.
 
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Hold on.. am I in the twilight zone or something?

  1. We have all guesstimated that the XB1 did over 50M lifetime. Or better put, was outsold by the PS4 by 2 to 1. That would mean if the PS4 did 120M, then our projections were that the XB1 did 60M. So why is this 58M surprising anyone when its been the common consensus that the PS4 won by 2 to 1.

  2. Am I the only one that notices that 58M in 7 years, averages out to around 8M consoles sold per year? And that's impressive?

  3. Or that at its current 21M sales, it tracking at around the same 8M sales per year from the previous generation.

I don't know..I am trying to see how any of this is good. I mean, for me, coming from the OG Xbox to the 360... now that was good. They gained market share. Went from seeing 24M consoles to seeing 85M+ in the 360. But going from the 360 to the XB1, they lost market share... and now they are tracking similarly... how is this a good thing? Is this like giving someone an also participated trophy? A celebration in mediocrity? Or like that gif where that guy that comes third celebrates harder than first and second.

What am I missing here? So basically, if the XSX consoles do like 50-60M... it would be considered a success?

1: Because PS4 didn't do 120 million...it did closer to 117.2 million. And the estimates prior to this were always "about 2:1", never exactly 2:1. In fact some said "by more than 2:1" for PS4, meaning it was realistic to have XBO estimates between 50-55 million, too.

2: Because it's not 8 million per year. Consoles have a curve where in the middle years sales explode, then peak, then gradually drop off. There are exceptions like the Wii, but otherwise all other consoles follow this model where in the second third of their lifecycle you see sales exponentially increase and then peak, then in the final third they ease down before dropping more heavily in the last year or two.

3: Except that's not what's actually happening here. XBS is tracking at OG Xbox levels, not XBO levels. OG Xbox did around 6.2 million in its 3rd year on the market. If these numbers are right and Ampere's 19.5 million sold-through by EOY '22 are correct, then XBS has only moved 2 million units globally in the past six months.

That is, quite frankly, abysmal. At the way things are tracking, XBS will be lucky to reach 50 million lifetime (if it continues following OG Xbox trajectories then next year it would do less than 6.2 million, for example, or would reach that point by 2025) and that's with an extra year on the market compared to 8th gen. MS wouldn't be seeing declines gen-over-gen like this if they were running Xbox more competently.

…and, again, we see that the total potential market is not increasing in size.

IMO, MS is right to chase the market outside of just gaming. The potential there is huge, while there is simply no room for growth as it stands beyond raising prices and achieving a greater attach rate, which seem to be Sony’s strategies.

Microsoft's problem is that they think they need the market to grow in absolute user count to grow revenue...this is not inherently true. If they offered more content and quality in their current ecosystems that customers would feel justified more of a cost for, they could increase their revenue and profit margins with the relative same pool of customers. Nintendo and Sony have managed to do this, but somehow Microsoft cannot?

A company has to have a balance between increasing ARPU of current customers and reaching out to new customers. If MS were doing things correctly they wouldn't see customer bleed turning over to Sony & Nintendo as new customers of those products (at the expense of being customers of Xbox); they be able to retain those customers even IF they also became Sony and/or Nintendo customers, too.
 
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The Fuzz damn you!

Gold Member
Microsoft's problem is that they think they need the market to grow in absolute user count to grow revenue...this is not inherently true. If they offered more content and quality in their current ecosystems that customers would feel justified more of a cost for, they could increase their revenue and profit margins with the relative same pool of customers. Nintendo and Sony have managed to do this, but somehow Microsoft cannot?

Sure, that’s important, but there’s a limit to revenue growth without user growth. Sony has a pretty strong lock on their users, so MS needs to look elsewhere. It’s a gamble, but it’s a gamble they can afford to take - Sony can’t. It only needs to work once to repay their efforts.

Sony, meanwhile, has limited opportunities to exploit their existing user base. What they’ve done they’ve done well, but MS is chasing long-term numbers (because they can afford to - this is not a source of profit for them, and even if they had full control of the market they would not be satisfied) while Sony is chasing short-term revenue (PlayStation is a *huge* source of profit for them).
 

Brucey

Member
1: Because PS4 didn't do 120 million...it did closer to 117.2 million. And the estimates prior to this were always "about 2:1", never exactly 2:1. In fact some said "by more than 2:1" for PS4, meaning it was realistic to have XBO estimates between 50-55 million, too.

2: Because it's not 8 million per year. Consoles have a curve where in the middle years sales explode, then peak, then gradually drop off. There are exceptions like the Wii, but otherwise all other consoles follow this model where in the second third of their lifecycle you see sales exponentially increase and then peak, then in the final third they ease down before dropping more heavily in the last year or two.

3: Except that's not what's actually happening here. XBS is tracking at OG Xbox levels, not XBO levels. OG Xbox did around 6.2 million in its 3rd year on the market. If these numbers are right and Ampere's 19.5 million sold-through by EOY '22 are correct, then XBS has only moved 2 million units globally in the past six months.

That is, quite frankly, abysmal. At the way things are tracking, XBS will be lucky to reach 50 million lifetime (if it continues following OG Xbox trajectories then next year it would do less than 6.2 million, for example, or would reach that point by 2025) and that's with an extra year on the market compared to 8th gen. MS wouldn't be seeing declines gen-over-gen like this if they were running Xbox more competently.



Microsoft's problem is that they think they need the market to grow in absolute user count to grow revenue...this is not inherently true. If they offered more content and quality in their current ecosystems that customers would feel justified more of a cost for, they could increase their revenue and profit margins with the relative same pool of customers. Nintendo and Sony have managed to do this, but somehow Microsoft cannot?

A company has to have a balance between increasing ARPU of current customers and reaching out to new customers. If MS were doing things correctly they wouldn't see customer bleed turning over to Sony & Nintendo as new customers of those products (at the expense of being customers of Xbox); they be able to retain those customers even IF they also became Sony and/or Nintendo customers, too.
Not sure if someone can graph the Xbs sales trajectory estimates, I'd be surprised if it hits 40 million lifetime units at this rate. 2 million units in 6 months is just horrific despite it being "off season".
 

Mr.Phoenix

Member
Sure, that’s important, but there’s a limit to revenue growth without user growth. Sony has a pretty strong lock on their users, so MS needs to look elsewhere. It’s a gamble, but it’s a gamble they can afford to take - Sony can’t. It only needs to work once to repay their efforts.

Sony, meanwhile, has limited opportunities to exploit their existing user base. What they’ve done they’ve done well, but MS is chasing long-term numbers (because they can afford to - this is not a source of profit for them, and even if they had full control of the market they would not be satisfied) while Sony is chasing short-term revenue (PlayStation is a *huge* source of profit for them).
Do they?

As I explained before... because Sony seems to sell on average 100-110Mconsoes each gen, doesn't mean its the exact same people buying PlayStation. And the best proof of this is if you look at the PS360 gen. Sony only managed to win that gen by under 6M consoles, and dropped on gen over gen market share by over 40%!!! And the majority of their losses went to Xbox. As it been shown that there is very little overlap between Nintedo and the hd twins. Basically, the 360 gained by almost exactly how much the PS2 lost.

How is sony chasing short-term revenue?
 

The Fuzz damn you!

Gold Member
Do they?

As I explained before... because Sony seems to sell on average 100-110Mconsoes each gen, doesn't mean its the exact same people buying PlayStation. And the best proof of this is if you look at the PS360 gen. Sony only managed to win that gen by under 6M consoles, and dropped on gen over gen market share by over 40%!!! And the majority of their losses went to Xbox. As it been shown that there is very little overlap between Nintedo and the hd twins. Basically, the 360 gained by almost exactly how much the PS2 lost.

Yes. No matter where the numbers lie, they still amount to much the same. There is room to shift those numbers around, but the upper limit - the reward for a total gaming monopoly, if you like - remains limited.

How is sony chasing short-term revenue?

By… developing and selling games? I’m not presenting this as a bad thing - to the contrary, it is a necessary thing - just differentiating their approach from MS’s.
 
Sure, that’s important, but there’s a limit to revenue growth without user growth. Sony has a pretty strong lock on their users, so MS needs to look elsewhere. It’s a gamble, but it’s a gamble they can afford to take - Sony can’t. It only needs to work once to repay their efforts.

Sony, meanwhile, has limited opportunities to exploit their existing user base. What they’ve done they’ve done well, but MS is chasing long-term numbers (because they can afford to - this is not a source of profit for them, and even if they had full control of the market they would not be satisfied) while Sony is chasing short-term revenue (PlayStation is a *huge* source of profit for them).

What you're saying isn't necessarily untrue, but IMO it also ironically shows where the legitimate concerns of their big gaming acquisition strategy lay. As you just illustrated, they don't need to rely on Xbox as a source of profits, that's why they can do the things we've recently found out they were planning to do all along like, say, making all future Zenimax games console-exclusive to Xbox. If MS were a company that actually relied on gaming revenue to survive, they wouldn't do such a thing, but they aren't so they can do that type of foreclosure.

And they can even do that with ABK, which again just creates further concerns for some of the biggest regulators.

Not sure if someone can graph the Xbs sales trajectory estimates, I'd be surprised if it hits 40 million lifetime units at this rate. 2 million units in 6 months is just horrific despite it being "off season".

Exactly. Slowing down to OG Xbox levels in the third year is just not good no matter how much some people try to spin it. The sales rate of the consoles should be increasing, not decreasing. And we know this is not simply a supply issue with Xbox because no console with sufficient demand would see supply drop so bad you can only move 2 million in six months.
 

Nydius

Member
Man I just wanna see the X - S ratio

If I had to hazard a guess, I'd argue it's 66% XSS to 33% XSX. Mainly because for the first 14 months after launch, finding an X was difficult at best while the S model was regularly in stock. Couple that with the significantly lower MSRP, the XSS sales that dropped it sub-$250 last year and the aggressive Xbox All Access programs that pushed the XSS as the cheaper option front-and-center. Just my gut feelings based on those factors but I'm thinking the vast majority of Xbox Series owners are on the Series S. I think the 50/50 split some believe is far too generous.

There has never been a time where my rural Walmart has lacked Series S units. They'd have 10 in the display case, sell them, and have 8 more new ones a few days later.
They didn't regularly/consistently get Series X stock where you could just walk in and buy one until November-December 2022.
 

Mr.Phoenix

Member
By… developing and selling games? I’m not presenting this as a bad thing - to the contrary, it is a necessary thing - just differentiating their approach from MS’s.
I don't see how that is short term anything.

this is why I said that you (like MS) don't seem to get the console or gaming business.

What you are calling short-term revenue, is the foundation on which Sony has built its long-term market share. Their generational pedigree. Games. That, first and foremost, is what gaming is always about. And everything you do or want to do, should be built on top of that.

Its not complicated at all, its that simple. Just put out a steady stream of good games.

Think about this, if sony decided to put their first party games on PS+... day one, just for 2 years... what leg does Xbox have to stand on then? That is what having a good number of great games does for your brand. Something, MS seems to still not be able to understand. The best thing going for you as a platform holder, can't be something that can be taken away from you in a weekend's announcement.
 
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The Fuzz damn you!

Gold Member
I don't see how that is short term anything.

It’s short term to the extent that it isn’t loss-leading, that’s all. Again, just differentiating from MS here. I’m not suggesting that they don’t have a long-term plan, but that long term plan *must* involve short-term profit. MS’s long-term plan doesn’t need to.

this is why I said that you (like MS) don't seem to get the console or gaming business.

No, I agree with everything you posted in follow-up to this. MS wants to expand *beyond* that market. I don’t know whether that will work out for them, but what is an unacceptable risk for Sony is a necessary gamble for MS.
 

twilo99

Member
The 199 from last year obviously :messenger_winking:

Ah yeah, I’m sure we’ll get back down there soon enough.. definitely before the holidays.

The used market is a great place to pick one up. I was patient and finally got one for $125 on fb marketplace but there are so many under the $200 mark.

Having such a low retail price does wonders for the 2nd hand market.
 
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