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[Varteras]

Honest question.

Are you SenducksuSage?

 

[Topher]

Very true... that last part being said i cant help but wonder if there has been some sort of shift in power despite the outward facing org chart we see? Decisions being made that the Xbox team itself doesn't want? I wish we had real concrete answers about who made these decisions and why.

I agree. Others have pointed out that this very well may be coming from above Phil Spencer.

Why? They were actively looking to do that themselves. Their last few projects before being acquired were not hits either so it's not like they were uber-prospering or anything.

Who was looking at doing what themselves?

 

[adamsapple]

Who was looking at doing what themselves?

Zenimax was looking to get acquired. Per Imran Khan, they were courting different suitors, some rumors said even Sony was in the running.

 

[Topher]

Zenimax was looking to get acquired. Per Imran Khan, they were courting different suitors, some rumors said even Sony was in the running.

I thought Khan was talking about Bethesda shopping around timed exclusivity.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Very true... that last part being said i cant help but wonder if there has been some sort of shift in power despite the outward facing org chart we see? Decisions being made that the Xbox team itself doesn't want? I wish we had real concrete answers about who made these decisions and why.

We all know the non-gaming execs are involved now. But Phil would have been completely aware that was going to be the case when he decided he wanted to put gaming at the top of the Microsoft. He's just as guilty.

Or maybe he wasn't aware and he's just that much of a fucking idiot. But I doubt it.

 

[adamsapple]

I thought Khan was talking about Bethesda shopping around timed exclusivity.

There were multiple articles about these kind of rumors circa 2020/2021, I'll see if I can find and update some here. But there were definitely rumors months before MS announced their intent to acquire Zenimax that other big names like Sony and Apple (?) were in the running to acquire them

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Also this will probably be a success story for Matt to add to his linkedin just above this. They're all cut from the same cloth.

 

[twilo99]

 

[FIREKNIGHT2029]

This right here is extremely damning. Phil was warned by Xbox staff that GamePass wouldn't work and he STILL relentlessly pushed for it knowing that if he failed he would be killing jobs and ruining people's livelihoods. He basically gambled with the livelihood of thousands.


What a piece of shit.

 

[Topher]

This right here is extremely damning. Phil was warned by Xbox staff that GamePass wouldn't work and he STILL relentlessly pushed for it knowing that if he failed he would be killing jobs and ruining people's livelihoods. He basically gambled with the livelihood of thousands.


What a piece of shit.

How long ago was this? Warren's tweet, I mean.

 

[Punished Miku]

This right here is extremely damning. Phil was warned by Xbox staff that GamePass wouldn't work and he STILL relentlessly pushed for it knowing that if he failed he would be killing jobs and ruining people's livelihoods. He basically gambled with the livelihood of thousands.


What a piece of shit.

Without GP almost no one would have considered one of their consoles until Starfield. GP is all they had and its not what tanked their console sales. Its totally optional.

 

[Varteras]

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

How long ago was this? Warren's tweet, I mean.

two years ago

 

[Varteras]

This right here is extremely damning. Phil was warned by Xbox staff that GamePass wouldn't work and he STILL relentlessly pushed for it knowing that if he failed he would be killing jobs and ruining people's livelihoods. He basically gambled with the livelihood of thousands.


What a piece of shit.

"But guys. Guys! He feels REALLY bad about the people he fucked over".
- Mike Ybarra

 

[GHG]

Without GP almost no one would have considered one of their consoles until Starfield. GP is all they had and its not what tanked their console sales. Its totally optional.

What tanked their console sales is their continually poor software output. They even had the audacity to launch their new consoles without any exclusives to speak of. It's not rocket science.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

This right here is extremely damning. Phil was warned by Xbox staff that GamePass wouldn't work and he STILL relentlessly pushed for it knowing that if he failed he would be killing jobs and ruining people's livelihoods. He basically gambled with the livelihood of thousands.


What a piece of shit.

He didn't fail. He propelled himself to the top floor with the rest of his mates.

 

[Varteras]

He didn't fail. He propelled himself to the top floor with the rest of his mates.

 

[Rockman33]

Real question. If tango was just getting ready to pitch a sequel to hi fi rush. What was the entire studio doing. For the last 16 months?

 

[splattered]

Real question. If tango was just getting ready to pitch a sequel to hi fi rush. What was the entire studio doing. For the last 16 months?

working on the hi-fi rush PS5 and Switch ports?

 

[azertydu91]

We've not once had a console monopoly, if we're being literal, just console dominance. It's not so much that I'm "championing" a console monopoly. I'm just looking back at gaming history and pointing out that so-called console monopolies have ended up really, really good for gamers. A dominant platform results in a ton of software competing within the same marketplace.

Muh Precious Competition appears to be highest when there is a dominant platform with smaller brands nipping at its heels. The reasons are two-fold and are extremely simple to understand:

1) the platforms with less market share must punch significantly above their weight or they cannot compete. This is how you get genre-defining games like Smash Bros or Halo or Shenmue on systems with tiny userbases. Game systems that cannot compete with the dominant platform end up dying in obscurity (Atari Jaguar, 3D0, Neo Geo Pocket Color).

2) third-party publishers are poisonous and always have been. Fewer platforms means third parties have to compete more on a software basis because the library is more crowded. Maximizing the competition between software instead of competition between hardware brands is how you get juggernaut libraries like PS2, Nintendo DS, PS4, and Steam. Third-parties shitting up the console market is how we got a crash followed by Nintendo's draconian policies. Third-parties playing sides is how we got all the sports games on Genesis and barely any on SNES.

I like games. I don't care about hardware brands as much as game brands. When games compete, they tend to be better overall. When platform brands compete, we get silliness like timed ESG exclusivity and buying up third-party developers to shore up a weak library.

I am not for monopolies but I got to admit that you make some strong points there.Which in turn makes me questions the validity of an OEM route...I guess time will tell.

 

[Solidus_T]

Not to get off topic and down too big a political rabbit hole, but yes Microsoft are communist, what we're being pushed towards is a China model of society, Microsoft are supporting this agenda 100%, there's no profit to be made from something like DEI, it's purely a political flex, an excuse to have commissars and control narratives and oust "wrong thinkers"

It's ironic, but the Chinese model of communism allows a lot of political power for big business and their cronies in government, it's why they want it, all the benefits of capitalism with the benefit of a government that gets to control free speech and send political enemies to re-education camps, it's a win-win for elites and a lose-lose for the little guy.

This is why Xbox sucks now, this is all downstream from a corporation who the last thing on their agenda is you having fun.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Real question. If tango was just getting ready to pitch a sequel to hi fi rush. What was the entire studio doing. For the last 16 months?

PS5 version.

That seems to be lifeline for Hellblade 2 developers.

They should delay PS5 version as long as they can. Pitching a new game in current climate could mean certain death.

 

[Solidus_T]

Witty "pics" are the crutch of those with no point. Lame and childish.
If you really think MS is no competion, your completely lost.
Are they perfect? No. Have they sold as many consoles as they want? No.
But to say they are no competition at all to Sony is beyond absurd.

If it were not for MS:
You would not likely have the online system you have on Sony's console (xbox live)
You would have a worse controller
You would not have PS+, you could have even more expensive online play only
You would have had a more expensive PS2, PS3, PS4, and PS5
You would have less powerfull consoles each generation
Sony would not have spend as much on developing games to compete

And there is many more beyond this list.

But by all means, bring on the one dedicated console gaming "ecosystem". It will be great for consumers!
Hate MS/Xbox with rediculous massive bias all you want but this is by far the the dumbest thing you have said on here.
Keep on the hate train.

I get the point that you want to make that MS has made some contributions, but some things you are giving them credit for are not their innovations. Remember at the end of the PS3/360 gen when both Sony and MS tried to cash in on the Wii hype as well? Some of this just comes with competition.

 

[Mr Moose]

Without GP almost no one would have considered one of their consoles until Starfield. GP is all they had and its not what tanked their console sales. Its totally optional.

Day one PC = devalues console
Day one Gamepass = devalues game

 

[SlimySnake]

Without GP almost no one would have considered one of their consoles until Starfield. GP is all they had and its not what tanked their console sales. Its totally optional.

then they shouldve made more games like starfield. which is you know the entire point of having a first party lineup.

he spent all his efforts on gamepass instead of actually making games worth buying a console for.

 

[Punished Miku]

then they shouldve made more games like starfield. which is you know the entire point of having a first party lineup.

he spent all his efforts on gamepass instead of actually making games worth buying a console for.

I mean, sure that would be great. If only they thought of that.

 

[Rockman33]

working on the hi-fi rush PS5 and Switch ports?

I didn’t think it came to switch? Either way, ports shouldn’t take almost a year and a half. Only a small portion of the team would be doing that. No dogging them, just curious. Most studios have projects lined up immediately after to not waste resources.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

This right here is extremely damning. Phil was warned by Xbox staff that GamePass wouldn't work and he STILL relentlessly pushed for it knowing that if he failed he would be killing jobs and ruining people's livelihoods. He basically gambled with the livelihood of thousands.


What a piece of shit.

It was probably the only way he could get the OK to rebuild the first party studios. Remember that before Game Pass, Xbox first party was Turn 10, 343i, Rare, Mojang, and The Coalition. Selling Nadella on Game Pass and xCloud possibly reaching billions of players got him the promotion to the executives table along with the funding to acquire first party studios for content to fill Game Pass. He didn't succeed, and the 70 billion plus acquisition of ABK put the gaming side of Microsoft in a position where they now have to profit rather than being hidden.

 

[Rockman33]

PS5 version.

That seems to be lifeline for Hellblade 2 developers.

They should delay PS5 version as long as they can. Pitching a new game in current climate could mean certain death.

If that’s all that they were doing that’s an incredible waste of resources.

lol. Game hasn’t even shipped and it’s already a lifeline.

 

[GHG]

It needs to be a natural thing, like picking up a remote and watching TV. You go home and just start playing, instead of watching reviews to convince yourself the game you are about to play is a masterpiece.

This kind of sentiment/statement makes me raise my eyebrow. Why would you want this? And if that's what you want, what if I told you it already exists?

Allow me to explain. The whole "picking up the remote and start watching" thing is what my wife does when it comes to TV shows, and by her own admission she watches a whole bunch of slop and crap. She doesn't really put much thought in to what she's watching and that's fine, nothing is demanded of her as the viewer and it's her way of unwinding, everyone needs to do it in their own way. But should the whole TV/movie industry be geared towards her watching style and the associated standards? Absolutely fucking not.

The same can be said for gaming. Some people legitimately don't give a shit what they are playing and will play any crap just to unwind, nothing is demanded of them as a gamer (in terms of skill) and it doesn't cost them much (if anything at all). Where do they typically play their games? On mobile phones or tablets.

For the bigger budget stuff on TV (and for movies) marketing, hype cycles and reviews do matter. Of course they do. If the creators are demanding you spend more time, more money (in the case of the cinema), and God forbid, that you actually switch your brain on while watching, then it's only natural that people are going to want to know whether it's worth their time prior to making a commitment to engage with the content. Take a look in the off topic section of the very forum and look at any topic relating to a bigger name movie or TV show, you will see this exact thing I describe play out.

The games that console gamers typically play are equivalent to what I described in the paragraph directly above. These are bigger budget games that demand more from the player in terms of all round commitment (whether it be money, time, skill, or all of the above). It is only natural that people are going to ask "is this suited to me and is it worth my time?". Unless you are a gaming executive who doesn't care about quality of the standards the studios under his stewardship sets , why do you want to remove that question from the equation on the consumer side?

What you're essentially asking for is that all games on console/PC become the equivalent of the slop my wife watches to casually unwind, basically the quintessential mobile game. Most people who game on those platforms don't want that. People want to be wowed, they want to be entertained. The more "masterpieces" (or games that strive towards that standard) the better.

So what is this really about? Is it that you don't want Xbox (and by extension, the content on gamepass) to have to be beholden to any kind of standard moving forwards, or is it that you'd actually be better suited committing your time towards gaming on mobile?

 

[Topher]

I didn’t think it came to switch? Either way, ports shouldn’t take almost a year and a half. Only a small portion of the team would be doing that. No dogging them, just curious. Most studios have projects lined up immediately after to not waste resources.

How would you know how long a port takes? Sony has acquired companies for the sole purpose of porting games to PC. That doesn't sound as insignificant a task as you are making it out to be.

Either way, you are implying Tango was doing nothing part of that time. Shouldn't Xbox management have given them marching orders on to their next game if that were the case?

 

[Rockman33]

How would you know how long a port takes? Sony has acquired companies for the sole purpose of porting games to PC. That doesn't sound as insignificant a task as you are making it out to be.

Either way, you are implying Tango was doing nothing part of that time. Shouldn't Xbox management have given them marching orders on to their next game if that were the case?

I personally don’t think they should have been shut down. I was just asking a question.

Also console to PC is a lot more difficult due to all the different hardware. Hi fi was already on PC.

Lastly porting games is only utilizing a small portion of the devs. No level designers, gameplay designers, story writers, etc. very technical. That’s why Sony has a team that only ports.

 

[Topher]

I personally don’t think they should have been shut down. I was just asking a question.

Also console to PC is a lot more difficult due to all the different hardware. Hi fi was already on PC.

Lastly porting games is only utilizing a small portion of the devs. No level designers, gameplay designers, story writers, etc. very technical. That’s why Sony has a team that only ports.

Fair enough. The answer is none of us know. I imagine that coming up with a pitch for the next game takes time as well.

 

[diffusionx]

This right here is extremely damning. Phil was warned by Xbox staff that GamePass wouldn't work and he STILL relentlessly pushed for it knowing that if he failed he would be killing jobs and ruining people's livelihoods. He basically gambled with the livelihood of thousands.


What a piece of shit.

This ignores the critical context of the fact that the CEO of Microsoft is a services guy.

Nadella was more likely to shut down the entire Xbox operation than keep it as-is without a significant service angle.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

This kind of sentiment/statement makes me raise my eyebrow. Why would you want this? And if that's what you want, what if I told you it already exists?

Allow me to explain. The whole "picking up the remote and start watching" thing is what my wife does when it comes to TV shows, and by her own admission she watches a whole bunch of slop and crap. She doesn't really put much thought in to what she's watching and that's fine, nothing is demanded of her as the viewer and it's her way of unwinding, everyone needs to do it in their own way. But should the whole TV/movie industry be geared towards her watching style and the associated standards? Absolutely fucking not.

The same can be said for gaming. Some people legitimately don't give a shit what they are playing and will play any crap just to unwind, nothing is demanded of them as a gamer (in terms of skill) and it doesn't cost them much (if anything at all). Where do they typically play their games? On mobile phones or tablets.

For the bigger budget stuff on TV (and for movies) marketing, hype cycles and reviews do matter. Of course they do. If the creators are demanding you spend more time, more money (in the case of the cinema), and God forbid, that you actually switch your brain on while watching, then it's only natural that people are going to want to know whether it's worth their time prior to making a commitment to engage with the content. Take a look in the off topic section of the very forum and look at any topic relating to a bigger name movie or TV show, you will see this exact thing I describe play out.

The games that console gamers typically play are equivalent to what I described in the paragraph directly above. These are bigger budget games that demand more from the player in terms of all round commitment (whether it be money, time, skill, or all of the above). It is only natural that people are going to ask "is this suited to me and is it worth my time?". Unless you are a gaming executive who doesn't care about quality of the standards the studios under his stewardship sets , why do you want to remove that question from the equation on the consumer side?

What you're essentially asking for is that all games on console/PC become the equivalent of the slop my wife watches to casually unwind, basically the quintessential mobile game. Most people who game on those platforms don't want that. People want to be wowed, they want to be entertained. The more "masterpieces" (or games that strive towards that standard) the better.

So what is this really about? Is it that you don't want Xbox (and by extension, the content on gamepass) to have to be beholden to any kind of standard moving forwards, or is it that you'd actually be better suited committing your time towards gaming on mobile?

First of all, I have nothing against mobile games. If it comes naturally to someone and they wanna spend time doing that, they should.

With that said, for me I was talking about stuff like Wo Long, Diablo 4 etc, games where I am hooked. A couple of recent examples. I just start those games without thinking much and keep playing for hours effortlessly. Sure, when it comes to making a build, it takes a full session but outside of that its completely smooth sailing.

There is no hype needed to play them. Just a solid yet simple set of mechanics. It works for me.

 

[Spank_Magnet]

working on the hi-fi rush PS5 and Switch ports?

And being told “yeah, no hurry. Hey, we’re MS. We’ve got tons of money. You’ll be fine.’

 

[GHG]

First of all, I have nothing against mobile games. If it comes naturally to someone and they wanna spend time doing that, they should.

With that said, for me I was talking about stuff like Wo Long, Diablo 4 etc, games where I am hooked. A couple of recent examples. I just start those games without thinking much and keep playing for hours effortlessly. Sure, when it comes to making a build, it takes a full session but outside of that its completely smooth sailing.

There is no hype needed to play them. Just a solid yet simple set of mechanics. It works for me.

The games you listed did have substantial pre-release hype/marketing cycles though. Particularly in the case of Diablo 4.

 

[Unknown?]

Monopolies aren't inherently bad. They're bad when they're helmed by the complete cunts like Jim and Phil.

Thankfully Valve isn't currently that, so the status quo can stay as far as i'm concerned, and the rest competing can scramble for eternity.

They aren't, they became monopolies by better serving their customers. If Jim or Phil degrades that service, someone else comes in and starts eating away at their market share.

The problem is when companies collude with the government to write laws that make them unfairly competitive. That's a coercive monopoly and it cannot be created in a free market.

Microsoft got so big from government funding that gave them an unfair advantage to anyone else.

 

[SSfox]

Remember when some Xbox fanboys wanted MS to buy Sega, Capcom and other Japanese companies...

 

[Skifi28]

Remember when some Xbox fanboys wanted MS to buy Sega, Capcom and other Japanese companies...

They still do.

"If we're going down, we're taking everyone's fun with us."

They learned from the best.

 

[adamsapple]

Remember when some Xbox fanboys wanted MS to buy Sega, Capcom and other Japanese companies...

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Remember when some Xbox fanboys wanted MS to buy Sega

This Wednesday. Believe.

 

[cireza]

Not sure if this was already posted, but I thought it was an interesting piece. Timestamped.

I’m ready to go to Tokyo. I mean go see Tango, a studio that I have such respect for the history of the creations there. I’ve talked for a long time about our desire to have more of a first-party presence in Japan. This is a great step there. I can’t wait to spend more time with the Tango team and get to know them.

So it seems that Japan presence is not important anymore. Great signal sent to all Japanese partners as well.

 

[DaGwaphics]

You think the devs are seeing any money from GamePass subscriptions?

The only people mass GamePass cancellations would hurt are Xbox executives.

It's abundantly clear the devs get fucked whatever happens.

I would think that MS is compensating the studios when games are added to GP. Big games like Starfield that are both AAA additions and do well in terms of engagement must be compensated on the books for that. How much, who knows, $50m, $75m, $100m etc. The content for services like this aren't free even when they are making the content. If they aren't doing that, than I'm not sure how they even know what games are profitable, etc.

 

[Deputy Moonman]

This right here is extremely damning. Phil was warned by Xbox staff that GamePass wouldn't work and he STILL relentlessly pushed for it knowing that if he failed he would be killing jobs and ruining people's livelihoods. He basically gambled with the livelihood of thousands.


What a piece of shit.

It's hard to have serious conversations when this is the kind of post-analysis we get from people.

 

[nosoynadie22]

The truth always comes to light

 

[vaibhavpisal]

The games you listed did have substantial pre-release hype/marketing cycles though. Particularly in the case of Diablo 4.

Yeah but I ignore hype.

Personally I like discoverability offered by gamepass/ps+ or steam.

Lets be real, you do give a lot of chances to a game you are hyped for.

I ended up finishing games like Final Fantasy 13, Red Dead Redemption despite feeling fatigued. Today I will just drop them in 10 hrs or so.

 

[feynoob]

Don matt looking at this mess

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

The truth always comes to light

i mean, look at his initials

 

[feynoob]

It's hard to have serious conversations when this is the kind of post-analysis we get from people.

These guys make millions doing barely anything.