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[SaintALia]

Because of the way he frames his story. For example, saying 70% of the staff that worked on Prey have left has a hell of a lot more impact than saying 70% of the devs have been replaced over the past six years. That's really not a big deal at all considering the amount of turnover in the industry. But he way of telling gets attention and folks will repeat it as truth. I don't trust journalists like this.



lol.....is that what I said really means? That's pretty funny.

But they didn't get replaced though? Not all anyway.

Studio count was about 150 in 2020, and the article says less than 100 currently(I'm finding it a bit difficult to get accurate information about employee count atm). It was also comparing it to studios that actually manage large GAAS that are similar to it like Bungie with hundreds of staff on hand. I think Rainbow Six Siege started with 150, but I have no idea how much it expanded to, Ubisoft Montreal has over a 1000 employees.

But then you'd have to consider key personnel leaving which you may not actually be able to 'replace'. So I think it'd be: Migration of talent. Not enough devs to balance that loss of talent. Not enough time to get the new devs up to speed.

But I suppose it would also depend on the talent they hired and the scope of the project and how much they had to peel back.

 

[proandrad]

Hear me out, but gamepass.

 

[Topher]

But they didn't get replaced though? Not all anyway.

Studio count was about 150 in 2020, and the article says less than 100 currently(I'm finding it a bit difficult to get accurate information about employee count atm). It was also comparing it to studios that actually manage large GAAS that are similar to it like Bungie with hundreds of staff on hand. I think Rainbow Six Siege started with 150, but I have no idea how much it expanded to, Ubisoft Montreal has over a 1000 employees.

But then you'd have to consider key personnel leaving which you may not actually be able to 'replace'. So I think it'd be: Migration of talent. Not enough devs to balance that loss of talent. Not enough time to get the new devs up to speed.

But I suppose it would also depend on the talent they hired and the scope of the project and how much they had to peel back.

That's kind of my point. Shrierer doesn't go into the details of how many were replaced or how many vacancies are still open. He puts out that flat "70% have left" and let's it stand on its own for impact. Just like he talks about Bethesda's low pay while ignoring the relative low cost of living in Austin, Texas compared to that of Silicon Valley. Then he makes up this nonsense that Bethesda will have a hard time hiring folks to Austin because of conservative politics when Austin is already considered one of the top tech hubs in the country. Of course, he is an unabashed far leftist so of course he had to get that tidbit in there.

But.....that's just me. If others want to take his articles at face value then that is up to them. Like I said, he is definitely trustworthy when it comes to reporting rumors of games in development.

 

[Silent Viper]

Yes, Microsoft spent $7.5bn to buy Arkane

Lol ya that comment was dumb

 

[EverydayBeast]

Deathloop and prey were ok, let’s bring Redfall to ps5 first.

 

[cash_longfellow]

Meh, that just means there was poor management. If they had a solid plan architected at the start it wouldn’t matter who left or came in.

Unfortunately this is the majority of the game industry right now…top level wants GAAS and micro transactions, and is going to push out to meet deadlines regardless. They don’t care about anything other than the immediate bottom line.

 

[jm89]

let’s bring Redfall to ps5 first.

Ps5:

 

[Bernkastel]

and the article says less than 100 currently(I'm finding it a bit difficult to get accurate information about employee count atm).

In 2021, it was 150 across both Austin and Lyon. And now, its like 280. Even if we take Jason's word, that still means they studio actually grew rather than shrinking. I am trying the find the source, but I remember it being posted on GAF that Arkane Austin had 100 employees last year.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

That $7.5 billion acquisition ain't lookin so hot.

You should look at the graveyard of MS acquisitions sometime. They quietly give EA a run for their money in terms of kill rate on things acquired.

 

[SaintALia]

In 2021, it was 150 across both Austin and Lyon. And now, its like 280. Even if we take Jason's word, that still means they studio actually grew rather than shrinking.

Where'd you get the 280 number? I'm find a range of numbers. Ah Linkedin, found it. I was looking at company analysis sites, rather than going to the more obvious site.

So I suppose it'd just boil to what I said before then:
"Migration of talent. Not enough devs to balance that loss of talent. Not enough time to get the new devs up to speed."

 

[Bernkastel]

So I suppose it'd just boil to what I said before then:
"Migration of talent. Not enough devs to balance that loss of talent. Not enough time to get the new devs up to speed."

 

[xrnzaaas]

They'd be long dead already (probably after Dishonored 2 or Prey) if they were under EA. Zenimax had more patience allowing them to develop Prey and now Microsoft desperately needs first party games so they may still have a chance. On the other hand I wouldn't be surprised if Arkane was dissolved and the remaining talented people moved to other studios.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I take Schrierer's "investigations" with a truckload of salt personally.

They always have his slacktivist angle to them that clouds and/or embellishes his back-page rag articles.

 

[Slikk360]

That $7.5 billion acquisition ain't lookin so hot.

Yep means nothing if u can't keep a good core of talent.

 

[Roxkis_ii]

Bro, the proof is in the pudding. Scoring points on the head count doesn't change the quality of Red fall.

 

[Bernkastel]

Bro, the proof is in the pudding. Scoring points on the head count doesn't change the quality of Red fall.

I was not talking about quality of Redfall. I was talking about the article's claim that "70% of Arkane Austin left due to Redfall". Even this random Arkane Austin dev I quoted more than 2 years ago is still working on Arkane Austin.

Someone mentioned Arkane Austin in the 15 rumoured games thread, so I remembered getting this reply from Lead Technical Engineer at Arkane Austin.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Bro, the proof is in the pudding. Scoring points on the head count doesn't change the quality of Red fall.

He is a console warrior. Don't expect any actual discussion from them.

 

[March Climber]

Yep means nothing if u can't keep a good core of talent.

Microsoft would buy Rockstar for a reasonable price in the billions, just to own the GTA IP. The amount of staff left wouldn't matter after that.

 

[Bernkastel]

He is a console warrior. Don't expect any actual discussion from them.

Funny how me sourcing how many employees Arkane Austin had in 2021 and 2022 in a thread about "70% of Arkane Austin left due to Redfall" is console warring.

 

[Ozriel]

Studio count was about 150 in 2020, and the article says less than 100 currently(I'm finding it a bit difficult to get accurate information about employee count atm). It was also comparing it to studios that actually manage large GAAS that are similar to it like Bungie with hundreds of staff on hand. I think Rainbow Six Siege started with 150, but I have no idea how much it expanded to, Ubisoft Montreal has over a 1000 employees.

How was this passage not a red flag for you? Destiny and Fortnite are nowhere near similar to Redfall, which ended up not being a GaaS title anyway.

Rare’s Sea of Thieves is a successful GAAS game and they’ve got less than 100 employees on that.

Schreier knew what he was doing. Same way he’s spun the 70% attrition rate for his story, as Topher pointed out.

Not to mention some of his conclusions are contradictory. He says recruitment is slow because many devs don’t want to work in Texas, yet isn’t willing to speculate if working in Texas isn’t a driver for increased turnover.
The videogame industry also has the highest attrition rate in tech, and it’s been 6 years since Prey was released. So it’s contentious to also say Redfall’s the reason for the staff departures.

I’m not exonerating anyone here. From all indications, the pay wasn’t good, the studio had long operated under a cloud after their past few games had failed to get commercial success and many devs weren’t pleased at making a multiplayer title. But some of this seems deliberately sensationalized.

 

[bender]

Funny how me sourcing how many employees Arkane Austin had in 2021 and 2022 in a thread about "70% of Arkane Austin left due to Redfall" is console warring.

 

[skit_data]

Damn, that’s a big part of the workforce! Are the founders of Arkane still around? What about the main people behind Prey? Downloaded it yesterday to give it another chance after dropping it years ago.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Funny how me sourcing how many employees Arkane Austin had in 2021 and 2022 in a thread about "70% of Arkane Austin left due to Redfall" is console warring.

Funny how a known xbox warrior who defends anything and everything related to the box is trying to dismiss the massive fuck up that is Arkane under MS's control. Seriously, who do you think you are fooling here?

 

[Roxkis_ii]

I was not talking about quality of Redfall. I was talking about the article's claim that "70% of Arkane Austin left due to Redfall". Even this random Arkane Austin dev I quoted more than 2 years ago is still working on Arkane Austin.

You know what, that was my bad. I thought this was the other thread.

 

[Elios83]

That $7.5 billion acquisition ain't lookin so hot.

So far indeed indeed the balance isn't exactly positive given Redfall and the loss of Shinji Mikami.
The feeling is that they bought a struggling publisher, the pressure is to reverse this with Starfield.

 

[adamsapple]

So far indeed indeed the balance isn't exactly positive given Redfall and the loss of Shinji Mikami.
The feeling is that they bought a struggling publisher, the pressure is to reverse this with Starfield.

The loss of Shinji Mikami lol. He's a legend but the last couple of good games Tango has made, namely Evil Within 2 and HiFi were directed by Mikami's protege, John Johanas.

 

[Bernkastel]

Funny how a known xbox warrior who defends anything and everything related to the box is trying to dismiss the massive fuck up that is Arkane under MS's control. Seriously, who do you think you are fooling here?

All I mentioned was Jason's claim about 70% of Arkane Austin having left due to Redfall and that got you so worked up huh.

 

[BosmerCulter]

Schreier also points to the responsibility of the directors of the game: Harvey Smith and Ricardo Bare.



Sad because the first was Dishonored 2's director and the second the lead designer of Prey.

 

[bender]

So far indeed indeed the balance isn't exactly positive given Redfall and the loss of Shinji Mikami.
The feeling is that they bought a struggling publisher, the pressure is to reverse this with Starfield.

I'd assume Arkane and Tango Works were largely afterthoughts for the acquisition. And to be fair, Hi-Fi Rush is as good as Redfall is bad.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

Sony is making the same mistake smh.

That is the polar opposite of what Sony is doing, but hey.

 

[kuncol02]

Schreier also points to the responsibility of the directors of the game: Harvey Smith and Ricardo Bare.



Sad because the first was Dishonored 2's director and the second the lead designer of Prey.

And Harvey was director of Deus Ex Invisible War and Blacksite: Area 51. Ricardo Bare was lead designer of both.

 

[Alebrije]

Sony is buying companies to develop GAAS , the only speculation we have is Factions that nobody knows what kind of multiplayer will be ( if released someday)...but supose Factions will be a GAAS it seems Sony is concerned about it due to the Bungie supervision...at least they are worried to avoid something like Redfall.

 

[MayauMiao]

Oh no not again, Microsoft!

 

[Kacho]

I'd assume Arkane and Tango Works were largely afterthoughts for the acquisition. And to be fair, Hi-Fi Rush is as good as Redfall is bad.

Great studios to fill out the Game Pass catalog, but yeah, ESO alone probably ranked higher on the list of importance.

 

[Alebrije]

And Harvey was director of Deus Ex Invisible War and Blacksite: Area 51. Ricardo Bare was lead designer of both.

The old case of " you lost a great salesman to get a mediocre sales manager...

 

[j.k.2021]

This game was the result of Bethesda desperation and higher-ups forcing it on them.And, No time of delay would have fixed a game broken on design level.Microsoft also had nothing to do with it's development.

 

[SkylineRKR]

Prey is one of my favourite games ever and its closest you'll get to System Shock 3. Its far better than Bioshock.

Arkane Austin seems to be dead. And on top of Redfall being shit, their games don't really sell. Zenimax, bar Doom and TES, was always like this. Arkane didn't sell, Tango didn't sell. Machinegames makes ok games, but inferior to ID imo. Obisidian is good, but plagued by bad luck.

 

[Slicker than your average]

Phil is apparently steering the ship in the right direction but isn't checking who's in the cabins.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

The loss of Shinji Mikami lol. He's a legend but the last couple of good games Tango has made, namely Evil Within 2 and HiFi were directed by Mikami's protege, John Johanas.

both underperformed

 

[Kacho]

both underperformed

He said they were good, not that they performed well. Why do you keep quoting Adamsapple to troll?

 

[SkylineRKR]

I wonder if GP has to do with anything. Its like Xbox lower their bar since they have GP. The mentality about many games is like, its on GP so its free anyway. Sony maintains a much higher quality on their first party output. Their worst reviewed games, like Days Gone, to be honest I choose it over the last few Halos and Redfall any day of the week.

 

[Warablo]

Sad, because Prey was their best game.

I wonder if GP has to do with anything. Its like Xbox lower their bar since they have GP. The mentality about many games is like, its on GP so its free anyway. Sony maintains a much higher quality on their first party output. Their worst reviewed games, like Days Gone, to be honest I choose it over the last few Halos and Redfall any day of the week.

Has nothing to do with Gamepass, Deathloop and Redfall were them trying to capture more marketshare and micro transactions because all of their other single player games hardly broke into the mainstream/profits that they wanted.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

He said they were good, not that they performed well. Why do you keep quoting Adamsapple to troll?

1. look at the report.
2.

Shinji Mikami lol.

3. are you his body guard? if so. i don't have any issue with that.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

Damn, that’s a big part of the workforce! Are the founders of Arkane still around? What about the main people behind Prey? Downloaded it yesterday to give it another chance after dropping it years ago.

No. The Arkane of old is gonr. It doesn't even matter if what the game journalist is saying is the truth.
IT SHOULD BE TRUE.

Kill Arkane from from orbit.

 

[Kacho]

1. look at the report.
2.

3. are you his body guard? if so. i don't have any issue with that.

I’m just trying to understand why you’re so obsessed with the guy. I saw you do the same thing yesterday and he’s not responding, probably because it’s obvious you aren’t engaging in good faith.

 

[graywolf323]

Funny how me sourcing how many employees Arkane Austin had in 2021 and 2022 in a thread about "70% of Arkane Austin left due to Redfall" is console warring.

the thread title is incorrect but the actual point was that 70% of the devs that worked on Prey have left

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

I’m just trying to understand why you’re so obsessed with the guy.

i don't see the name. i see the words.

I saw you do the same thing yesterday and he’s not responding,

What was the comment?

probably because it’s obvious you aren’t engaging in good faith.

. oh. it seems you are missing the inside joke between us.

 

[feynoob]

I wonder if GP has to do with anything. Its like Xbox lower their bar since they have GP. The mentality about many games is like, its on GP so its free anyway. Sony maintains a much higher quality on their first party output. Their worst reviewed games, like Days Gone, to be honest I choose it over the last few Halos and Redfall any day of the week.

This has nothing to do with GP.

The problem stems from games not selling very well, and the focus on live service games as those bring money.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

But they didn't get replaced though? Not all anyway.

Studio count was about 150 in 2020, and the article says less than 100 currently(I'm finding it a bit difficult to get accurate information about employee count atm). It was also comparing it to studios that actually manage large GAAS that are similar to it like Bungie with hundreds of staff on hand. I think Rainbow Six Siege started with 150, but I have no idea how much it expanded to, Ubisoft Montreal has over a 1000 employees.

But then you'd have to consider key personnel leaving which you may not actually be able to 'replace'. So I think it'd be: Migration of talent. Not enough devs to balance that loss of talent. Not enough time to get the new devs up to speed.

But I suppose it would also depend on the talent they hired and the scope of the project and how much they had to peel back.

Employee counts can be heavily skewed to fit a narrative.

At my company, I've been here around 10 years. My office has had probably 80% leave the company. But, our employee count is higher than it was when I started since we've filled the roles and also expanded beyond that.

 

[Kacho]

i don't see the name. i see the words.


What was the comment?

. oh. it seems you are missing the inside joke between us.

This one: https://www.neogaf.com/threads/xbox...starfield-show.1656154/page-12#post-268011096

If I’m missing an inside joke then fair enough. It was just something I noticed.