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[Tobor]

He saw IGNs review saying its a good game but short so is suddenly well versed.

Considering the majority of iOS development is 10 year old flash game rip offs I have no problem with Nintendo requiring people to actually have experience and prove they are worthy of developing

It's hilarious that you think this has to do with quality. Nintendo has no problems whatsoever with trash on their systems, they just want you to pay full price for it.

 

[heringer]

too bad steel diver and pilot wings resort seem to be way worse then 90% of those garage developer games

That's crazy talk. Most of those games are complete garbage.

You say that the gaming press would pick the best of the bunch, but that's not really true. You don't see a lot of DSiware reviews out there. Most games don't get any review at all.

 

[A Twisty Fluken]

lol nintendo.

that statement correlates with Iwata's statement on GDC as I understand.

Nintendo execs fear little games because basically they have the same audience that Nintendo games have now, but they sell games cheap, while Nintendo wants to sell them for 50 bucks. GO NINTENDO1!!

Yes, you "understand."

Oh GAF.

 

[farnham]

LoL. Tag plz

That has to be the most brain dead statement I have seen in a long time.

i dont see the problem with the comment

i know that the gaming press has a lot of problems

but in theory the purpose of the gaming press is to provide information about the quality of a game so that consumers can make their purchase based on an informed opinion.

all i was saying was that picking out good games out of a huge pile of shit games is the Raison d'être for the gaming press imo

That's crazy talk. Most of those games are complete garbage.

You say that the gaming press would pick the best of the bunch, but that's not really true. You don't see a lot of DSiware reviews out there. Most games don't get any review at all.

yes this is the problems im talking about. that the gaming press forgets about its duties and does not provide information for releases

they are not doing their jobs properly imo (even retail releases sometimes get totally neglected. i for one am still curious about the GS score for rune factory frontier for example). but thats another story

 

[-PXG-]

7 million dollars?

So every app is profitable then? If you copy make an Angry Birds or Tetris clone, you're bound to make a killing. Yeah, okay....

i dont see the problem with the comment

i know that the gaming press has a lot of problems

but in theory the purpose of the gaming press is to provide information about the quality of a game so that consumers can make their purchase based on an informed opinion.

all i was saying was that picking out good games out of a huge pile of shit games is the Raison d'être for the gaming press imo

Yeah in theory. But in the real world, it doesn't work that way.

 

[The Faceless Master]

Bob's Game guy redeemed!

 

[Nirolak]

Shitting on garage developers in the year when garage developers have been more prominent than ever seems very strange to me.

 

[szaromir]

Nothing new there. They require all developers be a registered business with an office that meets minimum requirements.

Non news that is being spun for hits.

I don't see why shitty, backwards and retarted policies of console manufacturers shouldn't be brought up constantly.

 

[Tobor]

So every app is profitable then? If you copy make an Angry Birds or Tetris clone, you're bound to make a killing. Yeah, okay....

You're the one who said 10 million copies. If you sell that many at $1, it's simple math.

If you sell 100k copies, you make $70k.

 

[erpg]

So every app is profitable then? If you copy make an Angry Birds or Tetris clone, you're bound to make a killing. Yeah, okay....

What are you arguing?

 

[-PXG-]

Shitting on garage developers in the year when garage developers have been more prominent than ever seems very strange to me.

It's a broad statement and (evident in this thread) that it can be interpreted many ways. Nintendo isn't shitting on guys like Notch or Team Meat. They're knocking the iOS/ App Store structure.

 

[dimb]

So, he thinks most of them are terrible and only a chosen few seem to be of any real value?

True, for me at least. Guess that's my opinion though, but I think he is spot on.

How is that different from professionally developed games?

 

[Dabanton]

Nintendo seems to be a little more vocal about smaller developers lately.

 

[freddy]

pilot wings and steeldiver are supposedly 2 to 3 hours long and dont offer a lot gameplaywise either even though i haven't played them yet


i see a lot of 1 dollar games on appstore that are probably better then that games I haven't played yet

in fact i saw a lot of 5 to 10 dollar games on wiiware with devs that had no background that were more awesome then those games I haven't played yet
yes 2 hours long awesome

Really do tell us more

 

[bengraven]

Nintendo is getting farther and farther away from the things I'm interested in.

Shitting on garage developers in the year when garage developers have been more prominent than ever seems very strange to me.

This.

I've bought one "AAA" game in the last 6 months, preordering Witcher 2. Everything else was indie games: Minecraft, Escalon, etc

 

[-PXG-]

What are you arguing?

I'm saying, not only would you be bombarded with a bunch of shitty clones, but only a small number of them would be profitable.

Apple always talks about how they have more games on the App Store than Nintendo does on the DS. Great, but how many of those games are actually good, and how many of them actually make any real money?

You're the one who said 10 million copies. If you sell that many at $1, it's simple math.

If you sell 100k copies, you make $70k.

You're ignoring development costs and royalties....

 

[abstract alien]

How is that different from professionally developed games?

It isn't any different at all, but that doesn't make it a false statement. I figured the whole thing was taken out of context.

 

[gofreak]

It's a broad statement and (evident in this thread) that it can be interpreted many ways. Nintendo isn't shitting on guys like Notch or Team Meat. They're knocking the iOS/ App Store structure.

He's knocking people who work on a game part time.

That would have been notch for the first x months of Minecraft's development.

That's the downside with their approach in the current environment, where many indies get started in a part time way. Nintendo only wants to present you opportunities when you're 'established'. Which is fair enough on their part, but they do risk losing some relations if devs find fertile ground on other platforms and are happy to stay there. And if those indies latterly turn around to bring their game to Nintendo's platform, it'll only ever come a day late if not also a dime short, rather than Nintendo getting the game from the start, potentially exclusively, and shaped for their platform specifically.

 

[farnham]

Really do tell us more

i have played wii sports resort airsports

pilot wings resort is supposedly that game with a few different vehicles and new objectives added

i believe i do know what the game is

 

[blu]

Misinterpretation FTW.
They are supporting indie devs like team meat or 2dboy, but wont supply every 16 year old wanne-be dev with dev-kits and a license to develop. This is nothing new...but i guess someone needed a new story.

psst. you're ruining a party here.

 

[gerg]

Shitting on garage developers in the year when garage developers have been more prominent than ever seems very strange to me.

I don't see how Reggie is "shitting on garage developers". His remarks aren't disparaging or derogatory so as to denounce the quality of some of the products garage developers make - in fact, he seems to actively affirm their ability to make popular games. Rather, Reggie's saying that he doesn't see business potential in dealing with garage developers. There's a difference between the two.

He's knocking people who work on a game part time.

By saying that they don't produce enough profitable games to be worth Nintendo's investment, not that they don't produce fun games that prove to be very popular. The former statement may be as equally incorrect as the latter, but there's still a difference between the charges.

 

[farnham]

He's knocking people who work on a game part time.

That would have been notch for the first x months of Minecraft's development.

That's the downside with their approach in the current environment, where many indies get started in a part time way. Nintendo only wants to present you opportunities when you're 'established'. Which is fair enough on their part, but they do risk losing some relations if devs find fertile ground on other platforms and are happy to stay there.

also cave story
which is one of the best games on dsiware and wiiware respectively

 

[Balb]

i have played wii sports resort airsports

pilot wings resort is supposedly that game with a few different vehicles and new objectives added

i believe i do know what the game is

I mean, are you just hung up on the price? What if both games were $2 on the appstore? Would they be good then? Would the good $1 games on the appstore right now still be good at $10? I agree with you that those two games are overpriced, but the people making the games aren't determining the price. Call it a launch tax but that's the way I see it. Eventually, those games will be on clearance, and you'll probably perceive their quality differently.

Not that I'm that interested in either personally, but still, I feel you're being too harsh on them.

 

[freddy]

i have played wii sports resort airsports

pilot wings resort is supposedly that game with a few different vehicles and new objectives added

i believe i do know what the game is

Well how about you come back when you have more than 'supposedly' and 'I believe I know' otherwise you just make yourself sound pessimistic or worse

 

[Alexios]

pilot wings resort is supposedly that game with a few different vehicles and new objectives added

It's a game about mastering various aircraft control. If you're not into that, don't buy it, rather than buy it and then complain there's no more than that to it. It's not hard to understand this. What you do or don't like doesn't mean shit to anyone else so you need a better argument than this. There are people who will enjoy pilotwings far more than any iOS game, but they don't go knocking all those games just because of that, because they know it's just their personal preference. Way to be a jerk.

if anything they should embrace smaller companies and devs to make up for their lacking support

They do. Just not too small. Microsoft separated Indie Games from XBLA for a reason. Nintendo has no plan in making an Indie Games store at this time. Does Sony have one? Why is it a problem in any case? There are avenues for those devs. They didn't put down anyone and to pretend they do like so many people in this thread is sad.

 

[farnham]

the problem i see with this stance is that nintendo isnt exactly getting a lot of support of the big guns in the industry either.

i dont see capcom, konami, EA, UBI, activision, atlus, square enix etc etc. putting their most significant releases on wii

if anything they should embrace smaller companies and devs to make up for their lacking support

I mean, are you just hung up on the price? What if both games were $2 on the appstore? Would they be good then? Would the good $1 games on the appstore right now still be good at $10? I agree with you that those two games are overpriced, but the people making the games aren't determining the price. Call it a launch tax but that's the way I see it. Eventually, those games will be on clearance, and you'll probably perceive their quality differently.

Not that I'm that interested in either personally, but still, I feel you're being too harsh on them.

i just find it mesmerizing how nintendo is talking about high quality products for a high price yet they throw out a port of a portion of a game for full price. its not really backing their argument at all.

i could see pilot wings resort or steel diver for less money though.

 

[boomerisgod]

I'm going to wait for a full text of this conversation because I just cannot trust Wired. I have seen way too many sensationalist stories from them to believe this isn't just another one. If the context is correct then yeah, it's not a great statement to make. If Wired took some stuff out of context, cherry picked quotes, and just pieced it together to drive traffic to their site, then I'm ignoring everything from them from here on out.

 

[Dabanton]

How is that different from professionally developed games?

Exactly you would think from such talk that the lets say in this case the DS had nothing but AAA quality software. When we know it was full of some of the worst games going.

 

[bestami]

By garage devs, he doesn't mean every indie developer. I read this news on eurogamer and there is a line on there that could clarify their view;

"I would separate out the true independent developer vs. the hobbyist," he said. "We are absolutely reaching out to the independent developer. Where we've drawn the line is we are not looking to do business today with the garage developer. In our view, that's not a business we want to pursue."

Again, source eurogamer.

 

[Tobor]

I'm saying, not only would you be bombarded with a bunch of shitty clones, but only a small number of them would be profitable.

Apple always talks about how they have more games on the App Store than Nintendo does on the DS. Great, but how many of those games are actually good, and how many of them actually make any real money?



You're ignoring development costs and royalties....

True, I was referring to revenue, but let's get real. The developers Reggie's talking about are not sinking huge budgets into these games.

The "how many iOS games are good?" argument is weak. The answer is "more than I have time to play", and "enough that I don't miss Nintendo products".

 

[antonz]

So basically Wired cherrypicked sections of a quote to fit their agenda. Think its time to add them to the banned list.

 

[gerg]

the problem i see with this stance is that nintendo isnt exactly getting a lot of support of the big guns in the industry either.

i dont see capcom, konami, EA, UBI, activision, atlus, square enix etc etc. putting their most significant releases on wii

if anything they should embrace smaller companies and devs to make up for their lacking support

The Wii is a lost cause, farnham. The 3DS is the next test of developer support.

Edit: Plus, as other posters have pointed out, in the fuller interview on Gamasutra Reggie does distinguish between independent developers and garage developers (the difference being, I presume, that the former has an established business, no matter how successful or not it is, whereas the latter is not registered as one).

 

[_Alkaline_]

Guys, he isn't referring to games like Minecraft, Cave Story, etc. You can put your pitchforks away.

 

[JaseC]

Epic developed Unreal in a garage.

Therefore Epic are a "garage developer".

Which means... Nintendo hate Epic!

 

[Cerebral Assassin]

Nintendo is getting farther and farther away from the things I'm interested in.



This.

I've bought one "AAA" game in the last 6 months, preordering Witcher 2. Everything else was indie games: Minecraft, Escalon, etc

As long as the teams that made those had an actual office they are eligible to get a dev kit.

 

[Momo]

By saying that they don't produce enough profitable games to be worth Nintendo's investment,

Which is missing the point entirely. Indie devs by themselves won't net you tons of cash initially, but in the future some of them will go on to make break out hits.

 

[farnham]

The Wii is a lost cause, farnham. The 3DS is the next test of developer support.

oh yes port galore and switch over to NGP for the big guns and iPhone for the small fries i smell it comming

 

[szaromir]

I don't see how Reggie is "shitting on garage developers". His remarks aren't disparaging or derogatory so as to denounce the quality of some of the products garage developers make - in fact, he seems to actively affirm their ability to make popular games. Rather, Reggie's saying that he doesn't see business potential in dealing with garage developers. There's a difference between the two.

By saying that they don't produce enough profitable games to be worth Nintendo's investment, not that they don't produce fun games that prove to be very popular. The former statement may be as equally incorrect as the latter, but there's still a difference between the charges.

Supporting garage developes is worth it on PC, iOS, Android, 360 and NGP (I think?). What makes Nintendo platforms so much different from any other relevant platform? Just let interested people to make games with little to zero formalities and upfront costs and EVERYONE wins.

 

[Woffls]

And if you read the rest on Gamasutra

"I would separate out the true independent developer vs. the hobbyist," says Fils-Aime. "We are absolutely reaching out to the independent developer."

 

[Kintaro]

From the original article that this terrible Game|Life article is citing.

"I would separate out the true independent developer vs. the hobbyist," says Fils-Aime. "We are absolutely reaching out to the independent developer."

"Where we've drawn the line is we are not looking to do business today with the garage developer. In our view, that’s not a business we want to pursue."

Many of the developers making the sorts of games referred to in the keynote, he says, are similar to amateur musicians who hold down other jobs. That's a different class than people who make their living creating games.

"Look at the music industry," he says. "There are certainly highly talented people who work other jobs and have a passion to be in the music industry. They work at it. There are reality TV shows that revolve around this concept. … I love it when there's a game that's found that captures people's imagination, just like that … singer toiling in a factory."

Basically, Reggie is not looking to work with the Rebecca Blacks of gaming.

Also, he makes a great point about the value of software.

Fils-Aime echoed many of the thoughts given at the Nintendo keynote, though noted that Iwata's comments were not aimed at a specific company. The risk the industry is taking with low-priced and free software, he says, is it's quickly training the consumer that there is no value in games.

"When we talk about the value of software, it could be a great $1 piece of content or a $50 piece of content," he says. "The point is: Does it maintain its value over time or is it such disposable content that the value quickly goes to zero? … We want consumers to see value in the software, whatever that appropriate value is. And we want to see that value maintained over time."

Think about this next time you see a thread about Homefront dropping another $20 in price. It's a disposable piece of shit that cost $50 million. Think about this next time you wonder why Mario games still cost and are still worst $49.99.

On a side note, Game|Life sure has turned to shit lately. Sad to see articles like this produced which are very misleading. Not to mention appear on the site's front page.

 

[gerg]

Which is missing the point entirely. Indie devs by themselves won't net you tons of cash initially, but in the future some of them will go on to make break out hits.

Sure, as I said, from a business perspective (my interpretation of) Reggie's statement may be entirely false. The point is that I don't think that Reggie's statement should be read as "lol garage developers can't make shit".

(On reflection I do realise that "shitting" might be used to refer to turning these developers away, but I think the stronger emphasis of the phrase is in being rude or disparaging about something.)

Supporting garage developes is worth it on PC, iOS, Android, 360 and NGP (I think?). What makes Nintendo platforms so much different from any other relevant platform? Just let interested people to make games with little to zero formalities and upfront costs and EVERYONE wins.

I think I should probably bold my last sentence so people actually read it:

The former statement may be as equally incorrect as the latter, but there's still a difference between the charges.

 

[Draft]

I don't like garbage developers, either.

 

[JaseC]

Basically, Reggie is not looking to work with the Rebecca Blacks of gaming.

How else will kids learn about Friday?

 

[boomerisgod]

already quoted above. Anyway , yeah. Wired does this stuff to drive traffic and does not even do the original reporting themselves. They just take snippets from other articles (in this instance, from Gamasutra). How are they still considered reliable?

 

[BowieZ]

Basically, Reggie is not looking to work with the Rebecca Blacks of gaming.

LAME LAME LAME LAME

 

[Shanadeus]

thats why you have the gaming press that picks out the good games

also its not like the wii or the 3ds has a stellar lineup right now

The same gaming "press" that continuously get railed on for being money hatted, biased and un-journalistic?

 

[Momo]

Guys, he isn't referring to games like Minecraft, Cave Story, etc. You can put your pitchforks away.

Where do you think games like these come from? Well established plc's?

 

[Bit-Bit]

Dammit people, read the whole article. Reggie's talking about hobbyists, not indie devs. He even says that Nintendo are reaching out to indie devs.

 

[Dr.Hadji]

too bad steel diver and pilot wings resort seem to be way worse then 90% of those garage developer games

LAWL. Thinking a large percent of indie games are better than anything. A large number of indie games don't even play without crashing.

 

[Cerebral Assassin]

Where do you think games like these come from? Well established plc's?

From people with offices(also using a game that has been released on Nintendo hardware should give you a clue).