Support NeoGAF

[Sydle]

Like i said, elite went down to 299 which was 100 dollar price cut. As per entry level SKU . I dont think there is much room to go down, infact the price was raised in UK for the entry level arcade level.
http://www.edge-online.com/news/xbox-360-elites-price-cut-arcades-raised

Sales are not depended on entry level price cut only. Especially aracde with its lack of features.

No, but they tend to have exponentially larger impacts such as the recent PS3 entry price cut to $299.

 

[jman2050]

wat

Yeah, lawlblob messed that up. It was far below mediocre.

 

[Woo-Fu]

The important thing to remember is that Sony is naked right now. They showed all their cards, they have nothing up their sleeve they can pull out.

I'd like to see you prove this particular negative. Actually, let me rephrase: I'd like to see you try. Until you can I'd have to submit you're just pulling it out of your ass.

Somebody could say exactly the same thing about Microsoft... or Nintendo... or anybody.

 

[pseudocaesar]

September will be fun. PS3 ---> Wii ---> 360.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

This "oh ms didn't have a price cut" nonsense is pretty tired out by now. What was previously 399 costs 299 now. What was previously 299 is 249. But yeah, neither of those was a price cut.

I see it this way, what is the cheapest price I can get the unit for? I want to play Madden 10, what is it going to cost me out of the door for this system. 6 months ago it was:

Wii: $250
360: $199
PS3: $399

Today it is:

Wii: $250
360: $199
PS3: $299

To the average consumer with a very limited budget, they are looking at what it will cost them to walk out of the store with a unit. If I want a BMW and it costs $20,000 and I can't afford that then they lower the price of the convertible model from $30,000 to $25,000, that BMW I wanted still costs $20,000.

Lowering the price of the extra unit with all the bells and whistles does not mean they lowered the price of the over all unit.

 

[Fredescu]

Car analogies are the best analogies.

 

[Stoney Mason]

September will be fun. PS3 ---> Wii ---> 360.

So will October, November and December. Very fun. Why don't you go ahead and make predictions for those months please.

 

[elrechazado]

I see it this way, what is the cheapest price I can get the unit for?

So SKU is never counted in price cuts then, only the lowest priced SKU matters. That's quite a novel theory of the definition of a price cut.

 

[Loudninja]

So will October, November and December. Very fun.

Yep,October is packed with games :0

 

[Patriotsbball5460]

I see it this way, what is the cheapest price I can get the unit for? I want to play Madden 10, what is it going to cost me out of the door for this system. 6 months ago it was:

Wii: $250
360: $199
PS3: $399

Today it is:

Wii: $250
360: $199
PS3: $299

To the average consumer with a very limited budget, they are looking at what it will cost them to walk out of the store with a unit. If I want a BMW and it costs $20,000 and I can't afford that then they lower the price of the convertible model from $30,000 to $25,000, that BMW I wanted still costs $20,000.

Lowering the price of the extra unit with all the bells and whistles does not mean they lowered the price of the over all unit.

Agree with this, and props for doing a car analogy

 

[Woo-Fu]

Lowering the price of the extra unit with all the bells and whistles does not mean they lowered the price of the over all unit.

Your argument is that the entry level price hasn't changed, therefor there was little or no effect on sales.

If that is "true", then it is also "true" that Microsoft significantly increased the features available at the lowest pricepoint and nobody cared.

Do you really want to argue that?

 

[OldJadedGamer]

So SKU is never counted in price cuts then, only the lowest priced SKU matters. That's quite a novel theory of the definition of a price cut.

Of course... at the end of the day, how much is it going to cost me to get this thing in my house? What is the lowest price I can pay to start playing games.

I'd like to see you prove this particular negative. Actually, let me rephrase: I'd like to see you try. Until you can I'd have to submit you're just pulling it out of your ass.

Somebody could say exactly the same thing about Microsoft... or Nintendo... or anybody.

Ok, what could Sony possibly do more hardware wise this year? You think in the US we will get another price drop? You think they will start packing in games? What else is Sony going to do hardware wise to this unit until the end of the year?

 

[ZZMitch]

Yeah, lawlblob messed that up. It was far below mediocre.

I see what you did there

 

[user_nat]

Your argument is that the entry level price hasn't changed, therefor there was little or no effect on sales.

If that is "true", then it is also "true" that Microsoft significantly increased the features available at the lowest pricepoint and nobody cared.

Do you really want to argue that?

What features changed in the arcade..?

 

[beast786]

I see it this way, what is the cheapest price I can get the unit for? I want to play Madden 10, what is it going to cost me out of the door for this system. 6 months ago it was:

Wii: $250
360: $199
PS3: $399

Today it is:

Wii: $250
360: $199
PS3: $299

To the average consumer with a very limited budget, they are looking at what it will cost them to walk out of the store with a unit. If I want a BMW and it costs $20,000 and I can't afford that then they lower the price of the convertible model from $30,000 to $25,000, that BMW I wanted still costs $20,000.

Lowering the price of the extra unit with all the bells and whistles does not mean they lowered the price of the over all unit.

I understand your point. During GT interview patchet had all the numbers of which SKU sell the most Arcade/pro/elite. He state that its usually the average of arcade (40%)and pro (40%)being the majority and elite about 20%. So aracde is not your main SKU sold.

True , if money is your main concern then yes it might be no cut for you.

 

[Sydle]

Your argument is that the entry level price hasn't changed, therefor there was little or no effect on sales.

If that is "true", then it is also "true" that Microsoft significantly increased the features available at the lowest pricepoint and nobody cared.

Do you really want to argue that?

The 360 Arcade price didn't change.

 

[Woo-Fu]

Ok, what could Sony possibly do more hardware wise this year? You think in the US we will get another price drop? You think they will start packing in games? What else is Sony going to do hardware wise to this unit until the end of the year?

I do not know. I do not consider absence of evidence to be evidence of absence, though. You not only consider it evidence, you consider it proof.

By all means, tell us your inside information that proves Sony has nothing left in store for this year, that Sony can have nothing left in store for this year.

I won't hold my breath.

What features changed in the arcade..?

The 360 Arcade price didn't change.

I was definitely wrong there. Let's go back to pretending the 360 didn't have a pricecut.

 

[elrechazado]

Of course... at the end of the day, how much is it going to cost me to get this thing in my house? What is the lowest price I can pay to start playing games.

Which, for anyone who speaks english, is definitively not the definition of the term price cut, but it's always nice to see how people take arbitrary and inane personal definitions, internalize them, and then assume that anyone else accepts their off the wall theories.

Elite was 399, it is now 299
Pro was 299, it is now 249 (until it is gone, which will take a while)

"there was no price cut"


If you want to argue about whether a consumer perceives entry price to be more important than higher end model price, that's a nice discussion to have. But the word "price cut" actually has a meaning.

 

[DMeisterJ]

I see it this way, what is the cheapest price I can get the unit for? I want to play Madden 10, what is it going to cost me out of the door for this system. 6 months ago it was:

Wii: $250
360: $199
PS3: $399

Today it is:

Wii: $250
360: $199
PS3: $299

To the average consumer with a very limited budget, they are looking at what it will cost them to walk out of the store with a unit. If I want a BMW and it costs $20,000 and I can't afford that then they lower the price of the convertible model from $30,000 to $25,000, that BMW I wanted still costs $20,000.

Lowering the price of the extra unit with all the bells and whistles does not mean they lowered the price of the over all unit.

Yep, the main concern is always the lowest entry price. Value is hard to sell. That's wh price cuts for higher end models don't do much. Ask teh 160 gig which is still stinking up store shelves being 100 bucks more than the slim.

 

[Fredescu]

Of course... at the end of the day, how much is it going to cost me to get this thing in my house? What is the lowest price I can pay to start playing games.

Is that really the view of the average consumer though? The 360 has been cheaper than the Wii for some time, but the Wii keeps beating it. The PS3 is more expensive than the 360 as you point out, but this month they are within 5k of each other. Both of these facts suggest that consumers most likely view a console in terms of it's overall value, not merely price. If this is the case, a price drop of the bells and whistles console is still a price drop and should still have an effect.

 

[duk]

is it same arguments each month over and over?

 

[Fredescu]

is it same arguments each month over and over?

No actually.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

Is that really the view of the average consumer though? The 360 has been cheaper than the Wii for some time, but the Wii keeps beating it. The PS3 is more expensive than the 360 as you point out, but this month they are within 5k of each other. Both of these facts suggest that consumers most likely view a console in terms of it's overall value, not merely price. If this is the case, a price drop of the bells and whistles console is still a price drop and should still have an effect.

The Wii is beating it cause they are selling to a different market then the 360 and PS3.

Time will show if PS3 can hold the sales through the Xmas season. The sales in the upcoming months will show if customers see the value, or if price is the most important. Until then, no one knows.

If you want to argue about whether a consumer perceives entry price to be more important than higher end model price, that's a nice discussion to have. But the word "price cut" actually has a meaning.

So a few years ago when the 60gig was moved to $499, the PS3 had it's first price drop even though since launch you couldn't see the start up screen for less then $499?

 

[Regulus Tera]

Does anyone have the LTD numbers for Wii Sports Resort, Wii Fit, and Mario Kart Wii?

Still, Dissidia deserved to sell a lot more than shittastic Core.

 

[Moussi]

eh we'll see what happens with September. If I'm MS I'm happy to be honest.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Good on WSR and Madden.

I think I did relatively well in the predictions. Maybe in the top 50.

 

[user_nat]

I was definitely wrong there. Let's go back to pretending the 360 didn't have a pricecut.

Depends how you look at it I guess, the most expensive 360 model ("Elite") is now $100 cheaper. So yep thats a price cut.

But you could argue they just phased out the $399 model and increased the value of the $299 model (or decreased.. depending on how important HD cables are).

In my opinion, there is very little new incentive to get a 360 with the latest price/SKU changes. The discontinued $250 Pro is very much a price cut (exactly the same hardware, $50 less).

 

[The Steve]

Maybe they should stop making the same game every year, then. Hmmm?

Madden 10 took a giant leap this year, and saying this only tells me you haven't even played the game.

 

[markatisu]

Does anyone have the LTD numbers for Wii Sports Resort, Wii Fit, and Mario Kart Wii?

Still, Dissidia deserved to sell a lot more than shittastic Core.

WSR is ~ 1.3m after 2 months (I think its like 1.26m) in the US

 

[Busaiku]

Those Dissidia numbers are pretty shocking.
Crisis Core did much better, and I'd say that had more against it at the time.

 

[Regulus Tera]

WSR is ~ 1.3m after 2 months (I think its like 1.26m) in the US

So it's selling at a faster rate than Wii Fit, isn't it?

 

[starsky]

Only 12 pages? GAF, you're slipping.

OT, good numbers on all consoles. Will be interesting to see how they perform next month.

 

[DMeisterJ]

Those Dissidia numbers are pretty shocking.
Crisis Core did much better, and I'd say that had more against it at the time.

Yeah, it was only the prequel to the highest selling FF ever.

 

[Crisis]

PS3 slim supply was crazy in my area. Targets had them before Best Buy did somehow. And they all sold out almost immediately. That said Wii sales are up from last month but despite their long in the tooth software for Wii still making an appearance. It seems to me that Wii Sports Resort can push the Wii to mediocre to good hardware sales for this winter all by itself. Next month will be a better indicator of Wii's new software longevity. The 360 is down on sales which is kind of surprising. There wasn't the absolutely blatant and obvious price drop/new model coming for it like there was with PS3. I'm surprised that Madden PS3 actually increased on that platform but was down on everything else. And a PSP title making the chart is unreal. I figured Unplugged would have made it a few months ago. Very surprising numbers outside of the PS3 increase.

 

[CitizenCope]

There is no way 360 is going to outsell PS3 for August. (maybe not even for the rest of the year)


"So let it be written, so let it be done."

:lol

 

[Gravijah]

But you could argue they just phased out the $399 model and increased the value of the $299 model (or decreased.. depending on how important HD cables are).

So basically they phased out the Elite, and in it's place put... The Elite.

 

[FrankT]

:lol

As I've said, I see fun times ahead. Maybe not quite as fun as my predictions last year though lol.

 

[Fredescu]

The Wii is beating it cause they are selling to a different market then the 360 and PS3.

I'm sure there's a little overlap there. Interestingly the massive PS3 Slim bump in Japan coincided with quite a slump in Wii sales. Different cultures I know, but I don't think PS360 and Wii are completely separate anywhere.

Time will show if PS3 can hold the sales through the Xmas season. The sales in the upcoming months will show if customers see the value, or if price is the most important. Until then, no one knows.

The fact that the PS3 sold any units at all at it's ridiculous pricing is proof that there are values other than price. I agree that there is no guarantee that the PS3 will outpace the 360 over the holidays. It will be interesting to see.

 

[user_nat]

So basically they phased out the Elite, and in it's place put... The Elite.

The Elite minus cables and bundled games, I guess. Or a Pro with 60GB more HDD space.

 

[mujun]

Is Sony is losing money every slim they sell?

 

[gkryhewy]

PS3 slim supply was crazy in my area. Targets had them before Best Buy did somehow. And they all sold out almost immediately. That said Wii sales are up from last month but despite their long in the tooth software for Wii still making an appearance. It seems to me that Wii Sports Resort can push the Wii to mediocre to good hardware sales for this winter all by itself.

So... you expect Wii sales this winter to be merely "mediocre to good"?

Is there a new "supply constraint" talking point for PS3?

 

[Crisis]

Is Sony is losing money every slim they sell?

Yeah but not much. Hirai said that the overall ecosystem of PS3 is making them money like when you count accessory sales and stuff. I'm not sure I believe it though.

 

[elrechazado]

Is Sony is losing money every slim they sell?

This will be good for about 6 pages worth of obnoxious debate. Because there haven't been 30 page threads on this a few times already since before and after the slim.

 

[Gravijah]

The Elite minus cables and bundled games, I guess. Or a Pro with 60GB more HDD space.

Elite doesn't always come with games, does it? And I thought Black+120GBis what makes an Elite an Elite.

 

[Busaiku]

Yeah, it was only the prequel to the highest selling FF ever.

Well, this is a fanservice fighter with many of the big characters from all of the Final Fantasy games.
And there's also the bigger number of total PSP owners this time.
It also wasn't competing against any other big games, whereas there was God of War with Crisis Core's launch.

 

[pseudocaesar]

So will October, November and December. Very fun. Why don't you go ahead and make predictions for those months please.

Sure thing buddy, I'm glad you took interest in my predictions. Heres what I believe will happen.

October. PS3 ---> Wii ---> 360.
November. PS3 ---> Wii ---> 360.
December. PS3 ---> Wii ---> 360.
January. PS3 ---> Wii ---> 360.

I included January as well, just thought you might be interested too .

 

[Crisis]

So... you expect Wii sales this winter to be merely "mediocre to good"?

Is there a new "supply constraint" talking point for PS3?

No. PS3 slim will certainly have full supply in the coming months. I meant for the period where it came out around the 24th. Nobody had a clue what was going on with shipments of the system and people didn't want to get the old PS3 so much even with the $100 off. So for September most people that wanted a slim should have been able to get one.

As for Wii sales right now they're still better than PS3 and 360. Wii Sports Resort kept the hardware moving imo. I personally think that the PS3 slim will manage to top the other two systems next month but not by much. There's not a whole lot coming out for Wii to keep the sales momentum for the hardware going. You'll see repeat appearances from the stuff on the list now almost certainly though. Moving into the holidays those titles will be the ones that drive Nintendo sales. Alongside Guitar Hero and all that. But the big HD sequels and stuff are all coming out soon too. And I think that PS3 can move more hardware than a lot of people expect. A lot of those games simply aren't coming out on Wii and I think it might suffer in sales a little bit because of that.

 

[FrankT]

Sure thing buddy, I'm glad you took interest in my predictions. Heres what I believe will happen.

October. PS3 ---> Wii ---> 360.
November. PS3 ---> Wii ---> 360.
December. PS3 ---> Wii ---> 360.
January. PS3 ---> Wii ---> 360.

I included January as well, just thought you might be interested too .

 

[zero_suit]

Sure thing buddy, I'm glad you took interest in my predictions. Heres what I believe will happen.

October. PS3 ---> Wii ---> 360.
November. PS3 ---> Wii ---> 360.
December. PS3 ---> Wii ---> 360.
January. PS3 ---> Wii ---> 360.

I included January as well, just thought you might be interested too .

What a laughable prediction..

 

[ZZMitch]

Sure thing buddy, I'm glad you took interest in my predictions. Heres what I believe will happen.

October. PS3 ---> Wii ---> 360.
November. PS3 ---> Wii ---> 360.
December. PS3 ---> Wii ---> 360.
January. PS3 ---> Wii ---> 360.

I included January as well, just thought you might be interested too .

Well you have one console in the right place... for the first 2 months maybe... Then your list is gunna be completely off :lol