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Phil Spencer admits defeat in console space, and doesn't think great games would help Xbox's market share.
- Thread starter FunkMiller
- Start date
FunkMiller
Member
It's not just how things are.
It's how things are because they have utterly failed to provide excellent games to their consumer base that compete with the competition, now for over a decade.
Moridianae
Member
This is pretty rough.
I have to say--I was around working as an area manager for GameStop back when the Xbox One and PS4 were coming out.
I will *never* forget that E3 wherein Microsoft just got obliterated on price, used games, online, everything. It was an unmitigated disaster.
Not only that, I recall the next day when I was sent store allocations for pre-orders, Xbox One was far, far less than PS4.
When I pressed the higher-up on it, he said "Yes, the numbers are right because Sony supports GameStop(i.e. used games).
You have to remember back then, GameStop had a lot of presence compared to now.
How Microsoft ever recovered from that, I'll never know. I guess one could now argue they never completely did.
I have to say--I was around working as an area manager for GameStop back when the Xbox One and PS4 were coming out.
I will *never* forget that E3 wherein Microsoft just got obliterated on price, used games, online, everything. It was an unmitigated disaster.
Not only that, I recall the next day when I was sent store allocations for pre-orders, Xbox One was far, far less than PS4.
When I pressed the higher-up on it, he said "Yes, the numbers are right because Sony supports GameStop(i.e. used games).
You have to remember back then, GameStop had a lot of presence compared to now.
How Microsoft ever recovered from that, I'll never know. I guess one could now argue they never completely did.
buenoblue
Member
This was the beginning of the end for me. I've bought every Xbox console apart from the series because they've made it so you don't need one lol. Ridiculous.
Thirty7ven
Banned
Kacho
Member
Bolded, italicized, enlarged, and font color changed for emphasis
RedC
Member
What they're doing is a complete disruption to how console platform holders have operated in the past.
LOL @ it being a last-ditch effort.
There's a reason why Microsoft is all in and willing to pour hundreds of billions of dollars into it.
Who claimed it was their plan in the past?
Smart businesses can readjust and move forward once they determine a path that will lead them to their desired outcome.
Mahavastu
Member
I do not really agree with that:
Via Bethesda Xbox has Franchises like Elder Scrolls, Fallout, Starfield and Doom. And via Obsidian they also have games like Avowed. And don't forget their stables like Halo.
I am sure when those games come with a Metacritic score of round about 90, those will sell boxes.
But when will those games come? I expect Elder Scrolls, Fallout and the next Halo coming next generation, and such too late to have an impact on the PS5/Xbox Series generation.
At the beginning of next generation the potential buyers saw the current generation, know if they were happy with the box they purchased and what was coming for the other box. With the "great games don't matter" thinking many won't go the XBox route then.
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Needlecrash
Member
Figured this should probably have its own thread, given the implications of what Spencer is saying.
Timestamped video from Kinda Funny Xcast:
Here, Spencer basically says there's no way the Xbox can compete with Sony and Nintendo, and then goes on to say that making great games wouldn't help Xbox compete.
I find this attitude utterly baffling, and I think we're now at the point where this dude needs to step away.
Whole quote here, provided byHeisenberg007 :
This...wow.
GHG
Gold Member
Honestly it's crazy.
We had the teraflops/power narrative, we had the gamepass narrative, we had the "exclusives bad" narrative, we had the acquisition destroyer of worlds narrative, we had the cloud narrative and probably many more that I'm missing. Now there's this one.
I don't understand how they keep up. The plates are shifting every other month.
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Killer8
Member
Absolutely baffling line of thinking.
Xbox already came from irrelevance. They did it before with a little console called... the Xbox. It was a distant third place in the first generation it released, before the brand was catapulted to success with the 360. What did it was smart pricing, release timing and most importantly: a killer lineup. The 360 absolutely shit on the PS3 for the first couple of years. Every kid I knew wanted a 360 over a PS3. That 2007 lineup is still the stuff of legends, up there with PS2's 2001.
Ultimately Sony did just about get the upper hand, but Xbox finished the generation only a few million units behind. That's nothing to shit on considering the sales split went from 158:24 million for PS2:Xbox, to 87:84 for PS3:360. Aside from Microsoft's strengths that gen, the flipside of the coin was Sony's weakness. Remember the "PS3 has no games" meme? Very reminiscent of the state of Xbox today. It absolutely matters to deliver a strong lineup.
And it's worth noting what Sony did to reverse their fortunes. They strengthened their first party and gave us games, games, games. You show people an exciting lineup and then they want to buy the console (and Game Pass sub) to play said lineup. It really is not much harder than that. Yet apparently that concept is proving too difficult for something like 15-20 studios to release more than a couple of AAA titles a year?
If Xbox to Xbox 360 was a lesson in how an underdog can gain relevance, PS4 vs Xbox One was the opposite lesson in how rapidly one can torpedo it. I won't get into the reasons why it happened, we all know them by now, but the point is that people can change their allegiance overnight. Phil wants to sell the sob story that the console landscape is settled now and nothing can change it. Not true at all. And it's not about "bringing your library with you" or any of that shit - backwards compatibility is very nice, but it matters not nearly as much as new games... otherwise Series X would be on top. And it's also not about taking the shortcut by just buying up the biggest gaming franchise. There needs to be an organic, concerted effort to get first party into shape like Sony did during the PS3 gen.
The industry is not in a fixed state, it fluctuates all the time. This is a really pathetic, defeatist stance for Phil to be taking when there's such a painfully clear path to success which he isn't taking.
Xbox already came from irrelevance. They did it before with a little console called... the Xbox. It was a distant third place in the first generation it released, before the brand was catapulted to success with the 360. What did it was smart pricing, release timing and most importantly: a killer lineup. The 360 absolutely shit on the PS3 for the first couple of years. Every kid I knew wanted a 360 over a PS3. That 2007 lineup is still the stuff of legends, up there with PS2's 2001.
Ultimately Sony did just about get the upper hand, but Xbox finished the generation only a few million units behind. That's nothing to shit on considering the sales split went from 158:24 million for PS2:Xbox, to 87:84 for PS3:360. Aside from Microsoft's strengths that gen, the flipside of the coin was Sony's weakness. Remember the "PS3 has no games" meme? Very reminiscent of the state of Xbox today. It absolutely matters to deliver a strong lineup.
And it's worth noting what Sony did to reverse their fortunes. They strengthened their first party and gave us games, games, games. You show people an exciting lineup and then they want to buy the console (and Game Pass sub) to play said lineup. It really is not much harder than that. Yet apparently that concept is proving too difficult for something like 15-20 studios to release more than a couple of AAA titles a year?
If Xbox to Xbox 360 was a lesson in how an underdog can gain relevance, PS4 vs Xbox One was the opposite lesson in how rapidly one can torpedo it. I won't get into the reasons why it happened, we all know them by now, but the point is that people can change their allegiance overnight. Phil wants to sell the sob story that the console landscape is settled now and nothing can change it. Not true at all. And it's not about "bringing your library with you" or any of that shit - backwards compatibility is very nice, but it matters not nearly as much as new games... otherwise Series X would be on top. And it's also not about taking the shortcut by just buying up the biggest gaming franchise. There needs to be an organic, concerted effort to get first party into shape like Sony did during the PS3 gen.
The industry is not in a fixed state, it fluctuates all the time. This is a really pathetic, defeatist stance for Phil to be taking when there's such a painfully clear path to success which he isn't taking.
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
And it has worked brilliantly. It is amazing to me how Sony has been able to keep a steady string of good quality exclusives. They know how to manage their studios. Sony is also excellent at keeping things in the pipeline so that if there is a delay they have something ready to go.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Digital Libraries are basically for BC. The vast majority of people dont care about BC. This is one thing I agree with Jimbo on. All that hoopla over Xbox's amazing BC and no one gave a shit. PS5 still selling like hotcakes.
We have seen stats that most people dont even finish video games. Why the hell would most people go back and redownload a game they bought last gen? People move on and play the latest and greatest.
If Phil had released killer exclusives on launch then those same people who bought all those COD DLC maps on the 360 and switched to PS4 anyway wouldve switched back to Xbox.
With subscriptions like PS+ and Gamepass including virtually every older AAA game released is on these services for free anyway.
Exactly. I look back at Uncharted Drake's Fortune and as great as it was, it wasnt until Uncharted 2 came out did the series finally achieve its full potential. Same goes for Assassins Creed 1 to AC2, Demon Souls to Dark Souls, and Mass Effect 1 to Mass Effect 2. I cant believe MS never greenlit a Ryse 2, Sunset 2, Quantum Break 2, and straight up cancelled Coalitions New IP which they revealed at E3 2014 in trailer form. Insmoniac went on to achieve insane success with Spiderman, Remedy won awards for Control (imagine if that had been an MS exclusive) while Coalition were forced to develop derivative Gears sequels that didnt move the needle.
Trogdor1123
Gold Member
It wouldn’t hurt my feelings if they published their games on PlayStation again… I’m just saying
MacReady13
Member
I REALLY hate to keep going on about this but if this guy focused more on releasing quality games instead of focusing on a fucking subscription service where it now seem people are ONLY buying your console to sub to that shit WITHOUT buying games, they might be in a different position. He threw all his eggs into 1 basket and it's looking like a big loss for the Xbox brand.
Also, this interview was awful from Phil. His excuses for Redfall were laughable. The game is getting poor reviews mainly for it's technical faults! Stop trying to shift the narrative dude- you released a broken game and you KNEW IT! I was so looking forward to Redfall and after all the negative stories on it's technical issues, I'm passing on it. And it would've been a game I purchased at launch had it been in a technically sound state. Bring the games and the people will come. It's why I was gaming exclusively on the 360 for so many years.
Also, this interview was awful from Phil. His excuses for Redfall were laughable. The game is getting poor reviews mainly for it's technical faults! Stop trying to shift the narrative dude- you released a broken game and you KNEW IT! I was so looking forward to Redfall and after all the negative stories on it's technical issues, I'm passing on it. And it would've been a game I purchased at launch had it been in a technically sound state. Bring the games and the people will come. It's why I was gaming exclusively on the 360 for so many years.
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
the issue is that Xbox is a distance #3
In a better lead world Xbox would be like what, 2 million units behind PS5? Yeah it's third place but it'd be so negligible no one would give a shit.
but no they're 20 million consoles behind and it will continue.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
He's been amazing. He just called out Phil Spencer for saying that redfall's shit launch is on us. Said if you are accepting responsibility then refund the last two months of gamepass. Otherwise its just empty words.
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DrFigs
Member
but the CMA at least already agreed that the console argument from sony doesn't work. so it would be a weird appeal to them
sloppyjoe_gamer
Gold Member
His comment about Starfield not being an 11/10 title and people wont sell their PS5s for it was pretty damning IMO.....after the Redfall disaster, Starfield is their next main big title and having him say that doesn't really show full confidence in the game. Right before the upcoming Xbox games show too where part of it is going to be focusing more on Starfield. Not a good thing for him to say at all.
The writing has been on the wall since the mid point of Xbox one and there were just no Great exclusives on the table, too much trend chasing instead of trendsetting man. It's crazy how much clout was built in the 360 Era, thier consoles had a 100% brick rate and they were still selling like crazy, think about how insane it was they were still killing it, ya know why, they had some of the best exclusives on the market (Bioshock, Mass Effect, Gears of War, Halo 3, Assassins Creed, Left 4 Dead, etc) they only fell behind PS3 because they gave up the great exclusive game, but great games don't sell Xbox's apparently 
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Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
"There is no world where Starfield is an 11 out of 10 and people start selling their PS5. That's not going to happen."
Meanwhile, Bethesda devs working 16-hour shifts to finish Starfield:
Meanwhile, Bethesda devs working 16-hour shifts to finish Starfield:
kyussman
Member
I'm sorry,did that fucking peasant just compare Redfall to Death Stranding......the absolute fucking nerve,lol.Jesus H. Crist man, the guy is having a meltdown, again, not to be petty but i really don't understand, he's a shill, yes, and yet, it still doesn't excuse all that...pathos and zeal on display, it really doesn't...
It really must be some kind of mental disorder, there's no other excuse, i actually feel sorry for the guy right now
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Jaffe just destroyed him when he said Redfall's failures are a learning experience. He's like you should already know, you have been the CEO for 10 years already. Learning on the job for 10 years????
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JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
The 360 era from 2006 - 2010 was some of the best years of gaming. Exclusives like Mass Effect, Halo 3, Bioshock. Gears of War, Alan Wake and being the perfect platform for Call of Duty.
MS first major mistake was shifting their focus into Project Natal.
2009 was the year fortunes began to change as Sony got some good exclusives with Killzone 2, Infamous, Ratchet and Clank and Uncharted 2.
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Nitty_Grimes
Made a crappy phPBB forum once ... once.
20 hours and sleeping under their desks but I get your point.
Moriarty1889
Member
And that ladies and gentlemen is the problem with Mister Spencer……..he has already conceded. Anyone running a trillion dollar companys console would say otherwise. They would use all the assets they possess and focus on the CONSOLE AND GAMES needed to one up the competition. Phil is more concerned with gamepass subs and playing everywhere else BUT on an xbox console. That is why he said the ridiculous nonsense he said. Time for him to go and get someone else who has confidence and knows how to turn things around. Someone willing to take risks in creating new EXCLUSIVE AAA IP.
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Badlucktroll
Member
FrankWza
Member
Because they have Microsoft money and they couldnt do it the other way.
You said it:
Yeah. It guarantees an IPs pipeline and plays in a field Nintendo and PlayStation couldn't match unless they were acquired by Apple or Amazon.
It doesn't take 20 years to realize that they have more money than most every other company on the planet. They attempted to compete and could not. Now, buy everything
OK. You're Darkmages alt. I get it now.
It's an attitude problem, and what allowed Redfall to come out in the state it was. It's basically, we're giving these games on a service and we're ok if they are mediocre because we don't and no one cares. It's a really self defeating attitude and actually explain why they fucked up so much for such a long time.
There's a reason why they don't push the envelope on anything, they're like, "eh".
Fredrik
Member
I like cranky mode Phil. No PR facade. Fans don’t want to hear it but he’s spot on going by my friends at least. Those who’re not already a multi-console gamer has already chosen a platform. The only thing I see around big exclusive releases is sadness, frustration and anger, no new hardware purchases.
Announcing defeat is not good PR though, I wonder what Satya think about this interview.
Announcing defeat is not good PR though, I wonder what Satya think about this interview.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
People love to bring up when he said they view apple as competition, not Sony, as the need arises. He's literally just saying that they "are not in the business of out-consoling Sony or out-consoling Nintendo". It's the same thing.
I'm not seeing the "he admitted defeat" that the OP used in any context at all.
PeteBull
Member
Back in 360 times xbox had mountain of high quality exclusives, and many multiplats ran better on their console too...
IllegalLemon
Member
Because he has seen first hand, that those awards he has stacked on his shelf mean nothing, unless he can absolutely justify them, which apparently he cannot. The man himself literally and seemingly doesn't know what he's doing and seems lost. Probably tells people that the biggest issue with Xbox, is that the upper management is clueless from Spencer & Booty to Greenberg and it needs either a shakeup, a complete change in their thought process and approach to things or a complete restructuring from the inside. Clowns don't fit in I'm afraid.This is honestly embarrassing
That interview was insane. The guy who runs Xbox doesn't even have confidence in Xbox or the staff he has producing games.
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Baki
Member
But their handheld sold 74m units, with 24m in Japan.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Shills be shilling.
As a reminder to people, Death Stranding won the most GOTY awards in 2019, beating Resident Evil 2 Remake, Control, and Sekiro.
YeulEmeralda
Linux User
Don't cry we still have GamePass.
Gone
Banned
Even if they made the new "The Last of Us" or the new Witcher, things wouldn't change that much.
Nautilus
Banned
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
FunkMiller
Member
nvm
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Business
Member
Amount of hardware sales doesn't matter, putting out top quality software doesn't make the difference. Blame is on Don Mattrick for losing the "worst generation" to lose and since then doom is inevitable. Xbox's answer is therefore to sell people on a subscription service [where software quality is not the top priority].
Then wonder why he is failing in third with the biggest budget of the three.
Then wonder why he is failing in third with the biggest budget of the three.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
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FunkMiller
Member
I mean, it's not like the CEO of Microsoft said this in the last earnings call, or anything:
They love to say they're in the business of out-consoling Sony when they're winning.
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