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[R6Rider]

I'm going to see how this game runs on my current/old PC build (worse than PS5 and XSX) and also try it on my next build. Would be better if I had the equivalent GPU and CPU for the comparison, but either way should shine some light on some things.

 

[MMaRsu]

And here comes the reductive appeal to authority posts. Disingenuous.

3 years people argued for options and praised them, now just because "Todd" and the Brand™ says different, they throw that all out the window on the flip of a switch. Good little Lemmings.

The argument isn't about "knowing more than such and such."

Three years no real nextgen games came out

 

[Thirty7ven]

So from now on, every game that is sub 60fps or has problems hitting 60fps, is under the protective umbrella of MS's and Bethesda's "Creative Vision Protocol".

 

[MMaRsu]

So from now on, every game that is sub 60fps or has problems hitting 60fps, is under the protective umbrella of MS's and Bethesda's "Creative Vision Protocol".

GTA6

 

[R6Rider]

Three years no real nextgen games came out

People love to throw this term around. What exactly does it mean?

Show me some examples on PC, where the games can reach well beyond what the PS5 and XSX can do. Show me those examples of "next gen games".

 

[DevilHunterX0]

"Don't need 60FPS, we make cinematic games(TM) now"

 

[feynoob]

So from now on, every game that is sub 60fps or has problems hitting 60fps, is under the protective umbrella of MS's and Bethesda's "Creative Vision Protocol".

Devs need to make the games that they want, not hit 60 fps target like people want.
It's like we forgot what gaming was about.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Devs need to make the games that they want, not hit 60 fps target like people want.
It's like we forgot what gaming was about.

Sure but let’s not pretend that hardware or technical limitations are covered under creative vision.

 

[feynoob]

Sure but let’s not pretend that hardware or technical limitations are covered under creative vision.

If you have a vision for your game and certain mode acts as a block for that, you either have to sacrifice your vision to meet that mode requirement or proceed with your vision.

 

[Calverz]

Sure but let’s not pretend that hardware or technical limitations are covered under creative vision.

The Xbox series s/x can output at 60fps. The “technical limitations” you speak of are self imposed. Created by a creative decision.

Regardless, game looks amazing.

 

[MMaRsu]

People love to throw this term around. What exactly does it mean?

Show me some examples on PC, where the games can reach well beyond what the PS5 and XSX can do. Show me those examples of "next gen games".

How old are you if I may ask? Just for reference point.

Consoles always set the standard. Developers dev for the lowest common denominator.

PC only sales are too low to create a true nextgen only game compared to consoles+pc.

Demon Souls is one of the better looking next gen only games, but it's still built on a PS3 framework essentially.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

I heard a rumor the entire Redfall team has been moved on to a more ambitious project. Good chance Phil just wants to sweep this one under the rug, 60fps isn't going to bring anyone back to this game. Even the Gamepass number of players are abysmal from what I understand.

Even tho Redfall sucks, Phil needs to be held accountable to gamers and deliver on that promised 60 fps mode. If he manages to slither out of it that will be another blow towards 60 fps being the standard this gen.

60 fps should be the standard in 2023 on consoles with sufficient hardware to get 60 fps with a little optimization. We can still have 30 fps fidelity modes that push the graphics but it's time 60 is standardized.

Spencer would L0VE to weasel out of this just like he and Todd managed to do with Starfield. I've heard the worst arguments over the last week for why a performance mode "isn't possible or needed". Everything from "consoles have always been 30 fps" (not true and even if they were that doesn't mean we should now) to "its all the persistent objects". As if those persistent objects have caused Bethesda games to be 30 fps on PC's so much weaker than Series X.

So much defending of 30 fps I have to wonder if these comments are all made by Xbox fanboys and PC gamers. Seeing Digital Foundry toe the party line was no surprise either, but what is surprising is seeing NeoGaf use DF to support their argument as if they are the authority, when all DF is doing is offering their opinion bases on speculation!

 

[feynoob]

The Xbox series s/x can output at 60fps. The “technical limitations” you speak of are self imposed. Created by a creative decision.

Regardless, game looks amazing.

Starfield can do 60 fps as todd said.
The issue is locking down to 60 fps and hope it doesn't drop down. That is where the problem comes from.

 

[MMaRsu]

60fps will never be standard on consoles

Even tho Redfall sucks, Phil needs to be held accountable to gamers and deliver on that promised 60 fps mode. If he manages to slither out of it that will be another blow towards 60 fps being the standard this gen.

60 fps should be the standard in 2023 on consoles with sufficient hardware to get 60 fps with a little optimization. We can still have 30 fps fidelity modes that push the graphics but it's time 60 is standardized.

Spencer would L0VE to weasel out of this just like he and Todd managed to do with Starfield. I've heard the worst arguments over the last week for why a performance mode "isn't possible or needed". Everything from "consoles have always been 30 fps" (not true and even if they were that doesn't mean we should now) to "its all the persistent objects". As if those persistent objects have caused Bethesda games to be 30 fps on PC's so much weaker than Series X.

So much defending of 30 fps I have to wonder if these comments are all made by Xbox fanboys and PC gamers. Seeing Digital Foundry toe the party line was no surprise either, but what is surprising is seeing NeoGaf use DF to support their argument as if they are the authority, when all DF is doing is offering their opinion bases on speculation!

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

When you expect less, you accept less and then you get less.

The funniest part of all this 30 fps damage control is that it goes beyond "this is fine." It almost seems hostile to the idea of 60fps on the Series X, as though no one should even want Bethesda to try it. It seems as though they have convinced themselves (and are subsequently trying to convince everyone else) that for this game to run at 60 it would have to have virtually zero interactivity with the environment, have the mechanical complexity of a NES Mario game and look like something the PS2 would have no trouble running. It reeks of a psychological defense mechanism.

The great irony of this is that no one is trying to rain on their 30 fps "muh fidelity" parade. They can have it. People would be more than happy to settle for a lower fidelity 60 fps mode and are upset that Bethesda has decided they do not get the option like in a vast majority of games this gen, even the next gen only ones. To ask for (let alone expect) that in a SHOOTER should be entirely uncontroversial on a console that "eats monsters for breakfast" and yet here we are. If MS/Bethesda thought the consumers would not let them slide without a 60 fps mode it would be there.

I will say this: Someone will run this game on PC with a rig similarly spec'd to a Series X @ 60 fps while looking totally acceptable and a lot of people in this thread will have crow to eat.

Great post but sadly by that point the damage will have been done. Imagine if these same fanboys realized NOW that Series X is getting the short end of the stick and actually rightfully complained. We might actually get our voices heard and effect a change here.

It's pretty sad that no matter how much consoles and console fans get disrespected, the party line always manages to be towed in favor of whatever the companies decide.

This is why I no respect for DF anymore. They have no backbone and ethics to do anything other than maintain the status quo.

 

[R6Rider]

How old are you if I may ask? Just for reference point.

Consoles always set the standard. Developers dev for the lowest common denominator.

PC only sales are too low to create a true nextgen only game compared to consoles+pc.

Demon Souls is one of the better looking next gen only games, but it's still built on a PS3 framework essentially.

I'm 30. Go ahead and explain what makes a game "truly next gan" then. You seemed to have skip that part.

Either way you try to spin it, EVERY single "next gen" title for any generation of consoles with a PC release has had the options to scale it back significantly to older hardware.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Starfield can do 60 fps as todd said.
The issue is locking down to 60 fps and hope it doesn't drop down. That is where the problem comes from.

His comment about how Starfield "can do 60 fps on SX" should make anyone angry tho. If it can do 60, albeit inconsistently, it should be EASY to offer a performance mode with a lower resolution. Do you not see how THIS is the real problem?

There's NO reason not to offer a 60 fps mode especially after his comments. Just make the 30 fps the default mode and let people who want to deal with potential inconsistency have the OPTION TO PLAY that way!

Not only that but at least that way you'll future proof Starfield for when faster hardware comes along!

Something isn't right here. These statements insult our intelligence and they don't add up.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

60fps will never be standard on consoles

But it COULD. There's no technical reason it can't have a 60 fps OPTION. THAT'S MY POINT.

 

[feynoob]

His comment about how Starfield "can do 60 fps on SX" should make anyone angry tho. If it can do 60, albeit inconsistently, it should be EASY to offer a performance mode with a lower resolution. Do you not see how THIS is the real problem?

There's NO reason not to offer a 60 fps mode especially after his comments. Just make the 30 fps the default mode and let people who want to deal with potential inconsistency have the OPTION TO PLAY that way!

Not only that but at least that way you'll future proof Starfield for when faster hardware comes along!

Something isn't right here. These statements insult our intelligence and they don't add up.

The issue is that 60 fps stable isn't switch on.
Even with graphic down, you aren't guaranteed if you can lock it down to 60fps.

We will see more when the game drops this September.

 

[adamsapple]

But it COULD. There's no technical reason it can't have a 60 fps OPTION. THAT'S MY POINT.

Developers will always want to push higher graphical fidelity over performance, much to many of our chagrins.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Developers will always want to push higher graphical fidelity over performance, much to many of our chagrins.

So have an unlocked framerate option since the system does VRR. You know, a selling point MS marketed for quite some time. Simple.

 

[feynoob]

So have an unlocked framerate option since the system does VRR. You know, a selling point MS marketed for quite some time. Simple.

Have you ever thought of what it will do to the game?
This is Bethesda game. Their games are on duct tape.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Have you ever thought of what it will do to the game?
This is Bethesda game. Their games are on duct tape.

That sounds like a them problem where they should work on delivering more technically solid software.

But then again,

"Good thing for these modders." - Todd Howard

 

[feynoob]

That sounds like a them problem where they should work on delivering more technically solid software.

That is a nice joke there.

 

[DeepEnigma]

That is a nice joke there.

 

[Calverz]

His comment about how Starfield "can do 60 fps on SX" should make anyone angry tho. If it can do 60, albeit inconsistently, it should be EASY to offer a performance mode with a lower resolution. Do you not see how THIS is the real problem?

There's NO reason not to offer a 60 fps mode especially after his comments. Just make the 30 fps the default mode and let people who want to deal with potential inconsistency have the OPTION TO PLAY that way!

Not only that but at least that way you'll future proof Starfield for when faster hardware comes along!

Something isn't right here. These statements insult our intelligence and they don't add up.

Even tho Redfall sucks, Phil needs to be held accountable to gamers and deliver on that promised 60 fps mode. If he manages to slither out of it that will be another blow towards 60 fps being the standard this gen.

60 fps should be the standard in 2023 on consoles with sufficient hardware to get 60 fps with a little optimization. We can still have 30 fps fidelity modes that push the graphics but it's time 60 is standardized.

Spencer would L0VE to weasel out of this just like he and Todd managed to do with Starfield. I've heard the worst arguments over the last week for why a performance mode "isn't possible or needed". Everything from "consoles have always been 30 fps" (not true and even if they were that doesn't mean we should now) to "its all the persistent objects". As if those persistent objects have caused Bethesda games to be 30 fps on PC's so much weaker than Series X.

So much defending of 30 fps I have to wonder if these comments are all made by Xbox fanboys and PC gamers. Seeing Digital Foundry toe the party line was no surprise either, but what is surprising is seeing NeoGaf use DF to support their argument as if they are the authority, when all DF is doing is offering their opinion bases on speculation!

Lol who is defending 30fps? I’m saying the 30fps only is a creative choice. I don’t want to play at 30. Which is why I’ll be playing on pc at 120fps.

 

[feynoob]

I wonder how many funny bugs can happen to our character.
Hope they dont disappoint us this year.

 

[Three]

Can't look any worse than FO4. In fact, I would say it would still look far better. Lighting does not take that much of a hit compared to other things.

Anyways, the PC tests will tell us all we need to know.

The PC tests will show us the exact same thing it showed with Gotham Knights I'd imagine. The CPU crapping itself and not hitting 60 that well. The only difference is that people and some outlets will make excuses for Bethesda while they had shitted on WB Montréal for the same thing, even though Bethesda has never really been that competent in optimisation or polish.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Lol who is defending 30fps? I’m saying the 30fps only is a creative choice. I don’t want to play at 30. Which is why I’ll be playing on pc at 120fps.

How tho if it's CPU bound?

 

[adamsapple]

So have an unlocked framerate option since the system does VRR. You know, a selling point MS marketed for quite some time. Simple.

It would be shit if the average performance isn't high enough to be in the VRR threshold and if the frame times are shit, even VRR can't solve that.

It has been this gen.

In the majority of the cross-gen window, yes.

 

[Roxkis_ii]

60fps will never be standard on consoles

It has been this gen.

 

[DeepEnigma]

It has been was this gen.

FTFY

It would be shit if the average performance isn't high enough to be in the VRR threshold and if the frame times are shit, even VRR can't solve that.

Poor Riky. What ever is he going to do.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

It has been this gen.

You mean this CROSS-gen.

 

[Roxkis_ii]

In the majority of the cross-gen window, yes.,

Returnal
Demon Souls
Astro playroom (A game to show off the features of the console ironically)
Street fighter 4
FF16
Ratchet & Clank

That looks like a big list of current gen games with a proformance mode. I don't know if that cross gen excuse works anymore.

 

[adamsapple]

Returnal
Demon Souls
Astro playroom (A game to show off the features of the console ironically)
Street fight 4
FF16
Ratchet in Clank

That looks like a big list of current gen games with a proformance mode. I don't know if that cross gen excuse works anymore.

Then you also have games like Jedi Survivor where they threw in a performance mode to appease the internet but it's shite.

We will not know the standard for the current gen until we drop cross-gen completely and only new-gen games are coming out universally.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Returnal
Demon Souls
Astro playroom (A game to show off the features of the console ironically)
Street fighter 4

FFXVI - 'FF16'

Ratchet in Clank

That looks like a big list of current gen games with a proformance mode. I don't know if that cross gen excuse works anymore.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Then you also have games like Jedi Survivor where they threw in a performance mode to appease the internet but it's shite.

We will not know the standard for the current gen until we drop cross-gen completely and only new-gen games are coming out universally.

At least they gave gamers the option. If it is shite, people will play it in 30 FPS mode. Others will be happy to play in the 60 FPS mode, which I'm sure many did.

 

[feynoob]

That is a violation.
I feel sorry for clank. He doesn't deserve that.

 

[ResilientBanana]

How tho if it's CPU bound?

PC CPU's are much more powerful than the power-saving laptop-grade CPU's in both consoles.

 

[Roxkis_ii]

Then you also have games like Jedi Survivor where they threw in a performance mode to appease the internet but it's shite.

How many people complained about the proformance mode in jedi survivor? I don't recall seeing anything here or on reddit about it compared to the thread for Redfall and 3 for Starfield got for not having a proformance mode.

Even if one of the options is shitty, it's still better then no options.

 

[Sony]

Or Options? like Performance & Fidelity like most games right now.

All the titles you linked are cross-gen though. It's easier to provide options for those because you already have 30FPS versions of those game on last gen and you're working with stronger hardware in current gen. Starfield is built for 30 FPS on current gen, which again, is a creative choice.

 

[Three]

The Xbox series s/x can output at 60fps. The “technical limitations” you speak of are self imposed. Created by a creative decision.

Regardless, game looks amazing.

where was all this "creative decision" defense when it was some Sony games?:

30fps is distinctly last gen. I honestly can’t believe Sony showed their big Christmas hitter running at 30fps.

I agree op. I stopped playing souls games at 30fps with the original dark souls. I tried with blood borne. I really did. But the motion blur and 30fps is really horrible.

Lmao driveclub is terrible and 30fps. But people seem to obsess over its photo mode. In motion it don’t look great quite honestly.

No 4K 60fps???
Poor. Why not? The ps5 is a massive upgrade over PS4. 30fps needs to go in the bin. Come on

 

[adamsapple]

How many people complained about the proformance mode in jedi survivor? I don't recall seeing anything here or on reddit about it compared to the thread for Redfall and 3 for Starfield got for not having a proformance mode.

Even if one of the options is shitty, it's still better then no options.

If they have enough headroom then sure, but if the game was barely hitting above 30 with bad fame times then I'd rather they focus on the one mode and do an optimized/cut performance mode a few months down the line instead, like how Plague Tale: Requiem did.

 

[Pop]

60fps will never be standard on consoles Xbox

Fixed

 

[NickFire]

Do any games have a 60 FPS option on X if there is no 60 FPS option on S?

Would MS allow 60 FPS on X if it couldn't be done on S?

The second question should be asked by a journalist who would push for a direct answer. Even more so if the X was really held out as tantamount to the mid gen update as recently alleged per a different thread.

 

[DeepEnigma]

PC CPU's are much more powerful than the power-saving laptop-grade CPU's in both consoles.

Not 30fps in these consoles to 120fps in CPU bound games. Gotham Knights and many other CPU bound games showed that.

where was all this "creative decision" defense when it was some Sony games?:

 

[Roxkis_ii]

If they have enough headroom then sure, but if the game was barely hitting above 30 with bad fame times then I'd rather they focus on the one mode and do an optimized/cut performance mode a few months down the line instead, like how Plague Tale: Requiem did.

I don't think we would even be here if Todd said, "we want to make sure the game is finished, but proformance mode is coming."

I think most people know this game is probably coming in hot, so I think a coming soon would satisfiy a lot of people.

 

[Heisenberg007]

where was all this "creative decision" defense when it was some Sony games?:

Oh wow, this is amazing. And I almost thought there were some good-faith arguments.

30fps is distinctly last gen. I honestly can’t believe Sony showed their big Christmas hitter running at 30fps.

No 4K 60fps???
Poor. Why not? The ps5 is a massive upgrade over PS4. 30fps needs to go in the bin. Come on

There was criticism against Sony for even showing a game at 30 FPS. Now it's all okay for Xbox even if they release a game only at 30 FPS.

And 30 FPS need to go in the bin, only to be resurrected with Redfall and Starfield.

I swear ...

 

[DeepEnigma]

Oh wow, this is amazing. And I almost thought there were some good-faith arguments.




There was criticism against Sony for even showing a game at 30 FPS. Now it's all okay for Xbox even if they release a game only at 30 FPS.

And 30 FPS need to go in the bin, only to be resurrected with Redfall and Starfield.

I swear ...

Been saying this with some on here.

 

[01011001]

Do any games have a 60 FPS option on X if there is no 60 FPS option on S?

yes, a shitload of games do that