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[IndoAssassin]

Why do sales threads make people salty? Have MS stocks been downgraded or something?

 

[Amentallica]

Did someone really compare this thread to a despotic regime? Priorities, people, sort them the fuck out.

 

[Patroclos]

Great logic. There was no Microsoft console at the time of NES, SNES, PS1. and the Xbox came way too late for the PS2 to catch up as a new console..

There is always brand loyality. Look at the market share of american cars in america and elsewhere. What does it tell you?

I have to disagree respectfully about market share and your graph specifically.

There is loyalty but Americans are used to getting video games from Japan as others mentioned. Your car graph is useless here, America is the birthplace of the automobile and we have an entirely different car culture. There have been HUGE pushes to purchase American cars, even Honda makes cars right here in Ohio. It's comparing apples and oranges.

How did Mattel's Intellivision fare vs. Atari? Try taking a look at TV purchases. That would be far more closely aligned with game consoles. I would argue that the Sony brand and Japanese electronics hold a certain allure here and are often perceived to be of higher quality than their American competitors.

 

[Patroclos]

I remembered reading a quickly locked topic about something along those lines. Did some digging and here it is

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=809128

Shame it got closed so quickly. I can understand why, but there would have been some entertaining responses

Thanks for showing me that. Too funny.

 

[psn]

I have to disagree respectfully about market share and your graph specifically.

America is the birthplace of the automobile and we have an entirely different car culture.

Karl Benz strongly disagrees with that bolded part....The birthplace of the automobile was GERMANY. Not only the automobile, but also the engines (diesel and otto / petrol 4 stroke)were german inventions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benz_Patent-Motorwagen
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_engine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_Diesel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Benz

Every country has a different car culture, that's for sure.
Even Ford is producing cars in germany... that's nothing special

 

[Biker19]

Great logic. There was no Microsoft console at the time of NES, SNES, PS1. and the Xbox came way too late for the PS2 to catch up as a new console..

There is always brand loyalty. Look at the market share of american cars in america and elsewhere. What does it tell you?

I'm saying, just because Xbox is "Made for Americans" (when really, all consoles are made in China while Japanese versions of Nintendo's & Sony's products are made directly from Japan), doesn't mean that people in America will always be loyal to that certain product. They'll go for what's hot & better, regardless of whatever the products are American or not.

 

[El-Pistolero]

1:7? That's hard.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

That is woodshed beating bad.

 

[El-Pistolero]

ITT people celebrating the inexistance of any sort of competition in some markets.

In my opinion, sales threads for such niche markets as spain should be banned on GAF. Consumer base is too inmature and single minded here.

PS3 outsold Wii here at 600€ price.
NDS was burning HW figures, but then SW sales figures were noexistent due to rampant piracy. Flashcarts attachement ratios were crazy close to 1:1.

I can see a lot of people in this thread that would be happy if MS just cut supply and drop support. Hoping for them the best of lucks with their wishings would sound like a chinese curse.

 

[Exploratory]

Just to clarify, as an American I have never once heard somebody say they bought an Xbox because it's American. Never once since the original one came out. I'm sure some do, but it is definitley not the prevailing, or imo even a common attitude.

Americans have the least loyalty out of any major market. We really don't give a shit where something is made. Most people will SAY they do but there purchasing habits show the opposite.

 

[HIR0]

Wait a minute, so a poster gets called out for suggesting that these types of posts are basically fanboy bait (even though he could've worded it better), yet no one calls out the unnecessary righteous indignation, usually reserved for despotic regimes, over a consumer product?

Maybe dr. apocalipsis was right, I don't think I've read a more immature post all day. Congrats, samuraidino.

It gets people everytime

 

[vpance]

Celebrating the failure of feckless competition more like it.

If he dies, he dies.

 

[psn]

I'm saying, just because Xbox is "Made for Americans" (when really, all consoles are made in China while Japanese versions of Nintendo's & Sony's products are made directly from Japan), doesn't mean that people in America will always be loyal to that certain product. They'll go for what's hot & better, regardless of whatever the products are American or not.

I don't think they are always loyal and it's the only reason they have. But it is definitely a reason. I can't even explain why it is selling better in america than in all other countries without thinking about it.

And most ppl know that those products are made in china or japan, they accepted that. But you support the brand, which is located in America even if the product is manufactured in China..

The ps3 outsold the x360 outside of US, but not inside of the US last generation.

PS4 is a bit ahead in America, but still far away from other countries.
I mean, here on gaf, I can understand why ppl buy an Xbox One. They want some exclusives etc. But most ppl buy their console for multiplats. Why not take the console which is cheaper, more powerful, is well known in the console business and has the better brand recognition. Also it had constantly good PR in contrast to the Xbox One.

 

[Tubie]

1:7? That's hard.

 

[Exploratory]

I don't think they are always loyal and it's the only reason they have. But it is definitely a reason. I can't even explain why it is selling better in america than in all other countries without thinking about it.

And most ppl know that those products are made in china or japan, they accepted that. But you support the brand, which is located in America even if the product is manufactured in China..

The ps3 outsold the x360 outside of US, but not inside of the US last generation.

PS4 is a bit ahead in America, but still far away from other countries.
I mean, here on gaf, I can understand why ppl buy an Xbox One. They want some exclusives etc. But most ppl buy their console for multiplats. Why not take the console which is cheaper, more powerful, is well known in the console business and has the better brand recognition. Also it had constantly good PR in contrast to the Xbox One.

I know responding to someone on this subject who's name is literally psn is probably a fools errand but maybe you don't care about a slight resolution difference and do care about a good console OS? Or *drum roll* PSN. Or maybe you just like Halo and don't make your purchasing decisions based off who had the more successful (or unsuccessful) public relations campaign?

Its not clear cut.

 

[Sayter]

I'm saying, just because Xbox is "Made for Americans" (when really, all consoles are made in China while Japanese versions of Nintendo's & Sony's products are made directly from Japan), doesn't mean that people in America will always be loyal to that certain product. They'll go for what's hot & better, regardless of whatever the products are American or not.

This is true. Don't care for most American products. My car is Japanese. So are my videogames.

 

[psn]

I know responding to someone on this subject who's name is literally psn is probably a fools errand but maybe you don't care about a slight resolution difference and do care about a good console OS? Or *drum roll* PSN. Or maybe you just like Halo and don't make your purchasing decisions based off who had the more successful (or unsuccessful) public relations campaign?

Its not clear cut.

My nickname is actually an abbreviation for paysen, sadly it was taken. Yes, I own a PS4, but I play 98% of the time on my PC. Used psn/paysen/pasn in counter strike since 1.5.

Still, that would be the case for every country. Not only the US. Why does the rest of the world think otherwise?

Why care about the OS but not about a 45 or 50% performance difference? I mean, there may be ppl, but... rare I guess. And still, a better OS is hardly measurable and subjective.

It was not only the campaign. It was really, really bad PR. Magazines, blogs, news sites reporting "how Microsoft wanted to screw over the gamers" etc. Covers like this:

 

[K.Jack]

In a year?

I know the populations can be drastically different, but it always amazes me how consoles can sale in ONE month in the US what they sale in an entire year in other countries.

You forget that the US is an abnormally HUGE country? Lay the surface area of the US over Europe.

Hell Texas alone is bigger than nearly 200 countries and recognized states.

 

[TsuWave]

Microsoft se acaba de disparar en un pie.

No se cuanto de la cultura española conocéis vosotros (yo soy un experto), pero la inmadurez y la cabezoneria son una gran parte de ella. No es como en América donde puedes tener éxito siendo maduro. Si fastidias a alguien en España, solo traes vergüenza sobre ti, y la única manera de deshacerte de ella es arrepintiéndote.

Lo que esto significa es que el público español, despues de oir esto, no va a querer comprar la Xbox One, ni comprará ninguno de los juegos de Microsoft. Esto es IMPORTANTE. Podéis reíros lo que queráis pero Microsoft ha alienado un mercado entero con este movimiento.

Microsoft, pide disculpas públicas y cancela la Xbox One en España, o puedes despedirte de tu negocio.

i laughed so much at this my cheeks are hurting

 

[Angelus Errare]

American loyally when it comes to product purchasing is a myth.

 

[psn]

American loyally when it comes to product purchasing is a myth.

Explain me this, please. Every country is loyal to a certain degree. What makes you think otherwise? No, not everyone buys an american product over every other product. Just to a certain degree. It doesn't matter if it's manufactured in china. You still support an american company if you buy their product.

France:

Germany:

 

[OccamsLightsaber]

American loyally when it comes to product purchasing is a myth.

That maybe be true, but there's a lot of people that choose the X1 over the PS4 because it's an American product.

 

[Respawn]

I just read method in your tag. I said Wow. As one brother to another. Thanks Bish I learned much.
I thought 7:1 was shocking but that was much more.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Explain me this, please. Every country is loyal to a certain degree. What makes you think otherwise? No, not everyone buys an american product over every other product. Just to a certain degree. It doesn't matter if it's manufactured in china. You still support an american company if you buy their product.

This isn't really proving people are purchasing American cars specifically because they're American. If that were true Toyota wouldn't be in 3rd place. There is loyalty brand but it's not to be conflated with the idea of patriotism. I mean the most sold car in the US is the Corolla to put things in perspective. France and Germany are different, American cars are more expensive (because there is no local factory because there is little demand) while providing no benefits over a local car brand, same in Korea and Japan. US cars are way more expensive, worse on gas and larger, thus they're not going to be purchased at the same rates their own cars would. Also I stated American loyalty is a myth I said nothing about German or French loyalty.

Americans are loyal to the best bang for their buck (Which is one of the reasons why these foreign car companies build factories here). Where that bang comes from, vast majority couldn't care less.

That maybe be true, but there's a lot of people that choose the X1 over the PS4 because it's an American product.

I'm sure, but it's not enough to really be worth talking about IMO.

 

[Soccer4life]

You forget that the US is an abnormally HUGE country? Lay the surface area of the US over Europe.

Hell Texas alone is bigger than nearly 200 countries and recognized states.

the world consist of 196 countries son

 

[serversurfer]

The way I would frame how best to look at Spain in regards to the XB1 would be taking into account Spain was in fact a Tier 1 country and given a 20M euro marketing launch campaign budget [which was over 500 euro spent on marketing for each XB1 sold in Spain 2013 YTD]. I think it's fairly clear that whatever MS's expectations were for XB1 in Spain, this was not it. I doubt they would assume they could pull 360 numbers but you don't spend that kind of marketing and focus on launching there first to garner 50k sales in a year

I agree that they were hoping to do much better than they did in Spain, but are you suggesting that because it didn't meet their expectations, the poor performance may be anomalous? Where didn't they fail to meet their expectations? The margin in Spain is pretty big, but "fell short of projections" doesn't strike me as much of an anomaly, in and of itself.

Another way to look at it is this. They took pre-orders for a while, and based on those pre-orders, they decided to carry through with the Spanish launch, where they sold 36k. Based on those same pre-orders, they seemingly decided the other countries were even less worth their time.

I guess the point is, if you think these sales seem low, you gotta wonder how bad Tier 2 had to be to have become Tier 2 in the first place. Spain is kinda being depicted as a nation of crazy XBox haters, but they're actually ranked comparatively high worldwide when it comes to supporting the XBox. If they weren't, they would've quietly slipped to Tier 2 with everyone else.

Hell, are Spain even at the bottom of Tier 1 as it is?

 

[SwiftDeath]

I agree that they were hoping to do much better than they did in Spain, but are you suggesting that because it didn't meet their expectations, the poor performance may be anomalous? Where didn't they fail to meet their expectations? The margin in Spain is pretty big, but "fell short of projections" doesn't strike me as much of an anomaly, in and of itself.

Another way to look at it is this. They took pre-orders for a while, and based on those pre-orders, they decided to carry through with the Spanish launch, where they sold 36k. Based on those same pre-orders, they seemingly decided the other countries were even less worth their time.

I guess the point is, if you think these sales seem low, you gotta wonder how bad Tier 2 had to be to have become Tier 2 in the first place. Spain is kinda being depicted as a nation of crazy XBox haters, but they're actually ranked comparatively high worldwide when it comes to supporting the XBox. If they weren't, they would've quietly slipped to Tier 2 with everyone else.

Hell, are Spain even at the bottom of Tier 1 as it is?

What? Generally I try to answer in what I would consider a reasonable and thoughtful way but the only way I can respond to your question is

lol no

I do not at all think XB1s performance in Spain is some anomaly and have absolutely no idea how you could possibly construe that at all from what I wrote unless you're perhaps trying to assume I have some bias based on our long discussion that one thread?

 

[psn]

France and Germany are different, American cars are more expensive (because there is no local factory because there is little demand) while providing no benefits over a local car brand, same in Korea and Japan. US cars are way more expensive, worse on gas and larger, thus they're not going to be purchased at the same rates their own cars would.
Americans are loyal to the best bang for their buck (Which is one of the reasons why these foreign car companies build factories here). Where that bang comes from, vast majority couldn't care less.

Actually Ford has a local factory in Germany. And american cars aren't expensive here. They are cheap. Even without a factory. € > $

Spoiler

great for importing, I buy many car parts in america.

Shipping cost aren't that much and most cars they offer here are not less economical than other cars.
Sure, there are good reasons to buy an american car as an american. And it's not the best example. But there is indeed brand loyality.

Everyone is looking for the best bang per buck. But if the consoles would be identical, I mean, everything is the same, but one is from Microsoft while the other is from Sony. Don't you think there would be many ppl who are loyal to an american company?
And if they are close for many ppl, why choose the Sony console?

 

[serversurfer]

What? Generally I try to answer in what I would consider a reasonable and thoughtful way but the only way I can respond to your question is

lol no

I do not at all think XB1s performance in Spain is some anomaly and have absolutely no idea how you could possibly construe that at all from what I wrote unless you're perhaps trying to assume I have some bias based on our long discussion that one thread?

lol No, I don't think you're biased. <3

So, you were basically agreeing with me? Their supporters are dismissing it as a lost cause, but MS saw Spain as a comparative stronghold/safe bet? Sorry, when you were talking about how far they fell short of their expectations there, it sorta sounded like you were saying, "To be fair, things may just be particularly bad in Spain, since they clearly planned to sell way more there."

 

[Bolts-n-Rays1109]

Sounds about right to me. Playstation dominates every country in Europe, expect for the UK. They might be dominating in the UK right now though. Not sure about those numbers.

 

[SwiftDeath]

lol No, I don't think you're biased. <3

So, you were basically agreeing with me? Their supporters are dismissing it as a lost cause, but MS saw Spain as a comparative stronghold/safe bet? Sorry, when you were talking about how far they fell short of their expectations there, it sorta sounded like you were saying, "To be fair, things may just be particularly bad in Spain, since they clearly planned to sell way more there."

No worries.

Yes sorry, I was agreeing with you. Maybe I could've worded it more clearly on my part

I think XB1 failed to hit MS's expectations in Spain by quite a lot, probably worse than MS's high expectations for Germany even [at least relatively]. Why MS seemed to have those expectations for Spain when they had none of the advantages the 360 had is sort of mind-boggling but that's the only way I can explain MS's marketing budget for the region.

 

[Alex_Mexico]

Spain has always been a Playstation territory, even during the toughest years of the PS3 so I'm not particularly surprised that the PS4, which is doing better than the PS3 worldwide, is killing it.

Still 7:1? ¡Increíble!

 

[serversurfer]

No worries.

Yes sorry, I was agreeing with you. Maybe I could've worded it more clearly on my part

I think XB1 failed to hit MS's expectations in Spain by quite a lot, probably worse than MS's high expectations for Germany even [at least relatively]. Why MS seemed to have those expectations for Spain when they had none of the advantages the 360 had is sort of mind-boggling but that's the only way I can explain MS's marketing budget for the region.

Gotcha. So do you have any new WW estimates, or are you waiting for Thursday?

 

[Brad Grenz]

Whatcha think GAF?

Sold units wordwide until Dec 31st 2014

PS4: 15 mil
XBO 9 mil

PS4: 18M
XBO: ~7.5M

 

[SwiftDeath]

Gotcha. So do you have any new WW estimates, or are you waiting for Thursday?

Hmm it makes more sense to me to wait until Thursday but whenever I do make another estimate it's likely to be a patchwork of assumptions and all that so probably won't even look nice :\

 

[krypt0nian]

Yeah I think it is sad to be honest. I think after all that bullshit last year millions all over the world will never buy an Xbox One, when it's actually now a pretty amazing platform following all the updates. I know it's only human to have bias, but as I said, people just seem way too happy about any sort of negative Xbox news.
.

So people that choose PS4, and see zero need for an xbox, are biased and just not seeing how great an xbox is.

This is going to be a looooong generation for you.

 

[Vasili2K38]

Wow, for one time I'm proud of my fellow countrymen

Spoiler

/jk

Anyway, its kind of fascinating how in the past generation, even with Spain being traditionally "Sonyland", the X360 specially in its first years was able to make a lot of brand awareness. Then Sony gained again momentum, and this generation for now has been a total disaster for Microsoft. In my circumstantial evidence, the ratio X360/PS3 in my friends and relatives was around 2:3, and now the One/PS4 is around 1:5.

 

[Biker19]

This is true. Don't care for most American products. My car is Japanese. So are my videogames.

I agree. The reason I bought a Xbox 360 last gen was not because it's "for America," but because the console had a decent library, some decent exclusives, & mostly better looking &/or performing multiplats.

Later on, I got a PS3 when the price for it came down, because I was always a fan of Playstation (as well as Nintendo & Sega's products). Also, Sony (as well as Nintendo) have always had a bigger dedication of 1st/2nd party games much more than Microsoft, especially since E3 2010 where MS stopped trying with that aspect & just constantly brought out Halo, Gears, & Forza while keeping constant focus on Kinect & Media. And I'm not a fan of FPS games or Sports games (save for racing games).

Not only that, but Playstation products have always have great Japanese 3rd party support, as well as some Nintendo products like their handhelds, & with NES & SNES back in the day. Xbox One, however? Doesn't come even close to Xbox 360 one bit. As a matter of fact, PS4 feels more like a true successor to Xbox 360 than Xbox One is.

Everyone is looking for the best bang per buck. But if the consoles would be identical, I mean, everything is the same, but one is from Microsoft while the other is from Sony.

Go look at the best looking Xbox One exclusive, then compare that game to either "The Last of Us Remastered," "inFamous: Second Son," "DriveClub," or "The Order: 1886." Identical graphically? Not. Even. Close. PS4 is the more powerful console all around. Xbox One can't compete against PS4 graphically, no matter how much you try to convince people that both of the consoles are identical graphically (which they're not).

Don't you think there would be many ppl who are loyal to an american company?

Again, just because Xbox is "for America," doesn't mean that consumers should have to be loyal to it.

And if they are close for many ppl, why choose the Sony console?

Because Sony has the better history of supporting gamers since PS1, & that Playstation is still the biggest powerful brand than Xbox?

 

[Katze mit Hut]

1:7? That's hard.

Pure Gold

 

[patapuf]

I don't think they are always loyal and it's the only reason they have. But it is definitely a reason. I can't even explain why it is selling better in america than in all other countries without thinking about it.

And most ppl know that those products are made in china or japan, they accepted that. But you support the brand, which is located in America even if the product is manufactured in China..

The ps3 outsold the x360 outside of US, but not inside of the US last generation.

PS4 is a bit ahead in America, but still far away from other countries.
I mean, here on gaf, I can understand why ppl buy an Xbox One. They want some exclusives etc. But most ppl buy their console for multiplats. Why not take the console which is cheaper, more powerful, is well known in the console business and has the better brand recognition. Also it had constantly good PR in contrast to the Xbox One.

I think the "brand loyalty" for the xbox one is simply due to the fact that the 360 was much more popular here than anywhere else in the world. People like to buy what they already know.

It's also not too suprising that the xbox is more popular in the US than anywhere else. Xboxlive is a much better value proposition, cheaper and the Xbox marketing campaigns are all focused on the american market. It's more that MS is more comfortable competing in the american market than americans preferring an american company.

 

[wmlk]

Pure Gold

not even bronze :/

 

[DBT85]

Sounds about right to me. Playstation dominates every country in Europe, expect for the UK. They might be dominating in the UK right now though. Not sure about those numbers.

Last gen it was 3:2 in the 360s favour, this gen it's the complete opposite. Though they did have that one week where they just barely beat the PS4 and there was a million page thread about it.

If the sales per week average for the last year were to flip, it would take the Xbone 50-53 weeks to just catch the PS4 in the UK.

 

[CozMick]

I cant tell who is being sarcastic or who is having a meltdown anymore, Im getting too old for this shit.

 

[FeiRR]

Explain me this, please. Every country is loyal to a certain degree. What makes you think otherwise? No, not everyone buys an american product over every other product. Just to a certain degree. It doesn't matter if it's manufactured in china. You still support an american company if you buy their product.

Also, what's wrong with it? When you support your local market, you support people who can have jobs and the whole infrastructure stays healthy. If I can choose a local product or a foreign product and they are similar quality, I'll choose the local product. I have nothing against foreign products in general though.

 

[d9b]

...

Its not clear cut.

It is in Spain. You can't get more clear cut than 7:1! Now you understand why Microsoft doesn't want to release official sale numbers.

 

[CozMick]

It is in Spain. You can't get more clear cut than 7:1! Now you understand why Microsoft doesn't want to release official sale numbers.

When was Microsofts last official "sold through" figures?

 

[Aostia]

apart from the comparison, I think that that's a lot of PS4 sold!

 

[Chobel]

ITT people celebrating the inexistance of any sort of competition in some markets.

In my opinion, sales threads for such niche markets as spain should be banned on GAF. Consumer base is too inmature and single minded here.

PS3 outsold Wii here at 600€ price.
NDS was burning HW figures, but then SW sales figures were noexistent due to rampant piracy. Flashcarts attachement ratios were crazy close to 1:1.

I can see a lot of people in this thread that would be happy if MS just cut supply and drop support. Hoping for them the best of lucks with their wishings would sound like a chinese curse.

No, spaniards are immature because they will buy whatever Sony sells at whatever price. If Sony releases a machine for 600 euros and a poor catalog they will buy it anyways. It's pretty sad actually.

EDIT: i'm ok with Sony doing great in Spain, not so much with people being so close minded towards other brands.

LMAO! Quality posts right here.

Spoiler

/s

 

[stryke]

When was Microsofts last official "sold through" figures?

I think 3 million by end of 2013.

 

[AlexisBrennt]

Well maybe the Xbox One will at least get the 40% market share in Germany ...

Spoiler

jk