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[Boss Mog]

I'm honestly so sick of seeing this picture being used to say there's no diversity in games. I could easily post a picture with 36 characters from popular games that aren't white males so using this picture to prove a point is beyond stupid. Secondly, most of these games are either made in North America or Europe, by devs who are North American or European, with a North American or European protagonist, and made for the North American and European markets. As much as it displeases you and your buddies over at ERA, white people are still the majority in North America and Europe by a very large margin. It's therefore very logical to have a white protagonist. Lastly, most of these games have military ties or at least feature shooting guns in some capacity and statistics show there are way more men than women in the military and in general men fire guns way more often than women do so it makes sense to have a man as a protagonist if it's going to feature heavy shooting or be a military themed game.

I welcome diversity in games and have no problem playing characters that aren't white males but when you take into account everything I've just said, it makes logical sense that the protags in such games are often white males.

 

[ILLtown]

Many journalists have been pouring gasoline on the fire for a few years now when it comes to demonising gamers and fostering a "them and us" divide. It used to be that these outlets would stand up for gamers. Now gamers are entitled, they're racist, they're sexist, their identity is dead, blah, blah, blah. They'll stand up for you if you have the right opinions and identity, otherwise they will shit on you.

The amplification of victimhood has been a massive problem as well. For example, there's a BBC documentary on YouTube entitled "The Dark Side of Gaming: The Females Fighting Back" that goes down the same predictable road, only several of the women featured in the documentary responded to say that they were lied to regarding the subject of the documentary and that everything positive they said about gaming was omitted to leave only the negative stuff and as a result they felt like they'd been used. You have to wonder why this kind of thing is so common these days. It's almost like telling a balanced, true version of events doesn't generate the necessary outrage.

I'm not denying that online abuse in gaming is a problem. I know it is. I know a couple of female gamers who used to not talk on their mics prior to becoming friends with the group of people I game with regularly because they used to receive abuse. It wasn't because they're delicate little flowers who need protecting. They just thought "why bother?" cos they received a disproportionate amount of shit compared to male gamers.

Also, I hate when people try and play this shit off as banter. I've had people mock my English accent and talk about tea and crumpets and what not, and I don't consider that to be "abuse", but when some guy shouts "shut the fuck up you useless fucking Paki!" at one of my friends because he has a thick accent, you can't call that "banter". I realise that where people draw the line in what they consider abusive varies, but come on. Some of the shit that goes on is indefensible.

We can't have an honest discussion about this stuff though, because everyone is too busy pushing their own narratives and agendas. It's why Anita Sarkeesian berated Boogie when they were on a panel together because he said that anyone can suffer abuse and that he'd suffered from plenty of online abuse himself, because it doesn't align with the "women and POC are victims, white toxic masculinity and fragility is to blame" identity politics horse shit that these people always seem intent on pushing. I don't believe that many of these folks even want to have a discussion anyway. They just want to stand in the pulpit preaching their religious dogma, while writing off all disagreement and criticism as abuse.

 

[Viliger]

Just because you can ignore something doesn’t make it no longer an issue.

And how internet words are an issue when you can no longer hear or read them? It has been 6 years and this quote is still relevant.

And don't bring swatting or stalking here, it is completely different issue entirely. If someone calls me a faggot online I tell him to fuck off, if he keeps doing that I just ignore him. Wow, that was hard.

 

[TannerDemoz]

And how internet words are an issue when you can no longer hear or read them? It has been 6 years and this quote is still relevant.

And don't bring swatting or stalking here, it is completely different issue entirely. If someone calls me a faggot online I tell him to fuck off, if he keeps doing that I just ignore him. Wow, that was hard.

Yeah man, I guess girls should just man up. Cheers for quoting Tlyer, you've set me straight now. Don't think I'd have been able to see the light otherwise.

 

[Viliger]

Yeah man, I guess girls should just man up. Cheers for quoting Tlyer, you've set me straight now. Don't think I'd have been able to see the light otherwise.

How about actually bringing some arguments instead of playing the victim card? Games offer you tools to shut those who offend you down. But people don't use them. Instead they complain to the authority figure, like little children, they don't want to solve their issues, they want big daddy Blizzard or whoever to make them go away.

 

[TannerDemoz]

How about actually bringing some arguments instead of playing the victim card? Games offer you tools to shut those who offend you down. But people don't use them. Instead they complain to the authority figure, like little children, they don't want to solve their issues, they want big daddy Blizzard or whoever to make them go away.

People do use them. People also complain. If people don't feel safe online or have been discriminated against – they have a right to complain. Blocking/banning/muting people is one way to get around this, but it doesn't solve the issue.

I don't know how we solve the issue. I don't think we can. It would require a complete shift in human behaviour as someone else on another page said which would be impossible.

I'll argue against idiots who think discrimination in video game isn't an issue because it can just be ignored or because they personally can find a way to get over it.

 

[ILLtown]

Games offer you tools to shut those who offend you down. But people don't use them. Instead they complain to the authority figure, like little children, they don't want to solve their issues, they want big daddy Blizzard or whoever to make them go away.

Complaining to the "authority figure" is one of the tools used to shut these people down though. If someone was on here shouting racist abuse at other members, I'd hope that person would be banned for it, wouldn't you?

I think moderation of any platform is difficult, but on a gaming service like Xbox Live, for example, I don't think an "anything goes" approach would be a good one. I don't think the onus should be solely on users to mute or block people.

If you disagree, perhaps you can expand on why. And I'm not talking about over-bearing moderation/rules where people are wrapped up and protected like little babies - I'm talking about dealing with things like blatant racism.

 

[Viliger]

If people don't feel save online or are religiously been discriminated against – they have a right to complain.

Internet is not your or someone else's safe space. You want a safe space? Do what Tyler said.

Blocking/banning/muting people is one way to get around this, but it doesn't solve the issue.

I don't know how we solve the issue. I don't think we can. It would require a complete shift in human behaviour as someone else on another page said which would be impossible.

You are right, the issue comes directly from human behavior, that's what competition does to people, risk of losing your hard earned work, even if it is some fake meme point that will give you nothing but satisfaction of your number being higher than others, makes you irritated, you are quick to blame other people for your failure even if they are blameless, I was there when I played League back in like 2012, I was both harasser and harassed.
However, let's see what the issue is. The issue is that a person is being harassed on whatever basis. Okay, we ignore the harasser, what else? He throws a game? His loss, he lost the meme points and got reported for that. He keeps screaming into the mic like a monkey? Who cares, he is doing that into the void, noone hears him. There is nothing else the harasser can do. Or you are one of those people who genuinely gets offended when someone tells you to kill yourself? There is no magic cure for that, only to grow a pair I guess. Are you like the girl from this pic?

If so, she did to herself, noone forced her to do that. I don't care if the pic is real, I just show it to you so you can see how ridiculous you sound. Maybe it is not appropriate to ridicule your opponent like that in a proper discussion, but you called us idiots, so it is only fair from my point of view.
If you are so emotionally unstable that you cut yourself when you get insult from strangers you should seek professional help, not complain that toxic masculinity ruins your video games.

Complaining to the "authority figure" is one of the tools used to shut these people down though. If someone was on here shouting racist abuse at other members, I'd hope that person would be banned for it, wouldn't you?

I think moderation of any platform is difficult, but on a gaming service like Xbox Live, for example, I don't think an "anything goes" approach would be a good one. I don't think the onus should be solely on users to mute or block people.

If you disagree, perhaps you can expand on why. And I'm not talking about over-bearing moderation/rules where people are wrapped up and protected like little babies - I'm talking about dealing with things like blatant racism.

I don't care what happens to them, I just ignore them. I mainly protest against over bearing shit like in Overwatch, League or the worst one, RS:Siege. Hell, Blizzard is on many layers of dumb with their toxicity battle, declaring pre-defined emotes in HS toxic. Even Riot Lyte wasn't this idiotic in his crusade.

 

[Alfadawg]

Gamers don't help themselves really.

Not sure what the point of the polygon article, they've just stayed the obvious.

 

[Schrödinger's cat]

People do use them. People also complain. If people don't feel safe online or have been discriminated against – they have a right to complain. Blocking/banning/muting people is one way to get around this, but it doesn't solve the issue.

I don't know how we solve the issue. I don't think we can. It would require a complete shift in human behaviour as someone else on another page said which would be impossible.

The issue is other human beings. That's not an issue you can solve. It's not a new issue either.

Hell is other people

One part of my growing up was the realisation of what I can change and what I can't.
I can change myself.
I can't change other people.

Trying to change other people is unreliable at best and completely futile at worst.
Those that choose to be constructive will focus on the things they have control over, not the things they don't.

By contrast there is great comfort in adopting the stance of a victim. I can demand empathy. I can refuse any accountability. I can excuse myself from taking any constructive action whatsoever. I can simply say "Somebody should do something".
None of these things are constructive, and because of that there will be no resolution. I remain a victim and can start the cycle over and over again.

 

[TannerDemoz]

Internet is not your or someone else's safe space. You want a safe space? Do what Tyler said.

You are right, the issue comes directly from human behavior, that's what competition does to people, risk of losing your hard earned work, even if it is some fake meme point that will give you nothing but satisfaction of your number being higher than others, makes you irritated, you are quick to blame other people for your failure even if they are blameless, I was there when I played League back in like 2012, I was both harasser and harassed.
However, let's see what the issue is. The issue is that a person is being harassed on whatever basis. Okay, we ignore the harasser, what else? He throws a game? His loss, he lost the meme points and got reported for that. He keeps screaming into the mic like a monkey? Who cares, he is doing that into the void, noone hears him. There is nothing else the harasser can do. Or you are one of those people who genuinely gets offended when someone tells you to kill yourself? There is no magic cure for that, only to grow a pair I guess. Are you like the girl from this pic?

If so, she did to herself, noone forced her to do that. I don't care if the pic is real, I just show it to you so you can see how ridiculous you sound. Maybe it is not appropriate to ridicule your opponent like that in a proper discussion, but you called us idiots, so it is only fair from my point of view.
If you are so emotionally unstable that you cut yourself when you get insult from strangers you should seek professional help, not complain that toxic masculinity ruins your video games.

I don't care what happens to them, I just ignore them. I mainly protest against over bearing shit like in Overwatch, League or the worst one, RS:Siege. Hell, Blizzard is on many layers of dumb with their toxicity battle, declaring pre-defined emotes in HS toxic. Even Riot Lyte wasn't this idiotic in his crusade.

Stop blowing up what I'm saying, it's really immature, because you're coming at me like I'm in complete defence of the article. You continue to misunderstand what I'm saying, so I'll lay it out for you again (read carefully).

• People have a right to raise issue with the way people speak to them online if it's consistent discrimination.
• Like it or not (or simply ignore it) it's an issue in the gaming community that needs addressing. As we both agree - there's no simple answer to this.

I also love how you're using an example of someone who clearly struggles quite severely with their mental health as a way to show me how I sound. Lol. Really strong argument bro.

 

[ilfait]

What's the generally agreed upon definition of toxic in this context? Behaviour that you find insulting and reprehensible? Behaviour that makes you feel demotivated and cynical about humanity? But who should these descriptors apply to? Depends on who's performing the application, doesn't it? Reprehensible to who? Should we go after the toxic teenage memelord who kills comedy daily? The toxic ban-happy art-killing SJW who wants to control what everyone says and consumes? The toxic "pick-up artist" who doesn't care who he hurts or manipulates as long as he gets his dick wet? The toxic soccer mom who exists to perpetuate a culture that's as boring and passionless as she is? The toxic politician or executive who lies and cheats, who's willing to do anything he thinks he can get away with? The toxic gold digger who sees human beings as disposable walking wallets?

Or should we attack the most toxic of them all? The person whose real crime is just that he won't buy into your PC religion, with its constantly shifting yet somehow sacred edicts, and won't acknowledge the true gods and condemn all non-believers. So you paint him as a repulsive caricature, a composite of whatever your paranoid imagination can conjure up and a dash of reality to sell it. And you write articles and tweet and post to try and mobilize the troops. Here's what your enemy looks like; he may be disguised as a person, with his own unique thoughts and tastes and opinions which you're perfectly free to acknowledge or ignore. But don't let that fool you; he's a racist, sexist, bigoted rapist-waiting-to-happen. Shame him, fire him, shun him until he submits and apologizes for being human and move on to the next one. Who's toxic? What's toxic? With a taste of a poison paradiiiiiiise, I'm addicted...

 

[B_Signal]

What's the generally agreed upon definition of toxic in this context? Behaviour that you find insulting and reprehensible? Behaviour that makes you feel demotivated and cynical about humanity? But who should these descriptors apply to? Depends on who's performing the application, doesn't it? Reprehensible to who? Should we go after the toxic teenage memelord who kills comedy daily? The toxic ban-happy art-killing SJW who wants to control what everyone says and consumes? The toxic "pick-up artist" who doesn't care who he hurts or manipulates as long as he gets his dick wet? The toxic soccer mom who exists to perpetuate a culture that's as boring and passionless as she is? The toxic politician or executive who lies and cheats, who's willing to do anything he thinks he can get away with? The toxic gold digger who sees human beings as disposable walking wallets?

Or should we attack the most toxic of them all? The person whose real crime is just that he won't buy into your PC religion, with its constantly shifting yet somehow sacred edicts, and acknowledge the true gods and condemn all non-believers. So you paint him as a repulsive caricature, a composite of whatever your paranoid imagination can conjure up and a dash of reality to sell it. And you write articles and tweet and post to try and mobilize the troops. Here's what your enemy looks like; he may be disguised as a person, with his own unique thoughts and tastes and opinions which you're perfectly free to acknowledge or ignore. But don't let that fool you; he's a racist, sexist, bigoted rapist-waiting-to-happen. Shame him, fire him, shun him until he submits and apologizes for being human and move on to the next one. Who's toxic? What's toxic? With a taste of a poison paradiiiiiiise, I'm addicted...

crikey

 

[ilfait]

crikey

Don't be toxic.

 

[Cosmogony]

I think a lot of gamers find it difficult to interact with the real world.

Do you have any evidence for this?

They think all women are like princess peach or some shit and if it ain't white, it ain't right.

Do you have any non-anecdotal evidence for this?

It's not just gaming tbh, but geek culture really. Just look at starwars and that comics video. Geeks were rightly ridiculed for their lack of social skills and overall bad decisions.

So it's okay to ridicule people for their shortcomings?
Roger.

The internet has really given them a voice that shouldn't be heard.

So there's a group of a socially-awkward people whose voice should never be heard?
Roger.

It's just none stop hate and sometimes I really hate being a gamer.

Oh, the irony!

You guys need to fix up

The colossal irony, of galactic proportions!

 

[JimmyRustler]

What I also find funny, like in general I mean, is that people go out there in a competitive field and expect everyone to be nice to them. And not just a competitive field, but an anonymous competitive field.

I mean, you really have to process this for a moment. It largely isn't even possible for us human beings to be nice to each other in real life competitive fields (not even professionals for Christ sake!) and then you go online an expect such a thing.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

Keep dreaming folks.

 

[Ragnaroz]

Uhm, yeah, still not gonna give Polygon a click. They can fuck right off as far as I'm concerned.

 

[DeliciousDoc]

I don't like playing online unless I have had a chance to practice offline and feel confident. It was the same back in the arcade scene. I feel shitty if I fail in front of an audience. Being abused afterwards doesn't help me git gud.

It's the same reason I don't like team sports.

I think people shouldn't be assholes to each other but I can only control me and hope others follow suit.

I don't think blaming white male masculinity helps and tends to have people double down on being assholes.

 

[Dunki]

• Like it or not (or simply ignore it) it's an issue in the gaming community that needs addressing. As we both agree - there's no simple answer to this.

But to be able to address this you need opinions and views of "both" sides. It does not help when one side constantly makes the situation even worse with accusations, generalizations and sensationalism like this one here. Only if we all understand this there can be searched for a real solution and how to tackle the issue. Saying bad gamer and toxic masculinity is not helping at all quite the opposite.

 

[LegendOfKage]

It's quite simply embarassing how so many gamers are stuck in the 1950s.

Gamers stuck in the 1950s. I think that would look something like this:

 

[Cato]

I think a lot of gamers find it difficult to interact with the real world. They think all women are like princess peach or some shit and if it ain't white, it ain't right.

WTF are you talking about. I am a gamer. My wife is white. That is not right and I should be ashamed? What is wrong with you?

I think you need to talk to someone about your race and racism issues.

 

[JimmyJones]

Anyone else hate the word toxic now?

 

[Schrödinger's cat]

But to be able to address this you need opinions and views of "both" sides. It does not help when one side constantly makes the situation even worse with accusations, generalizations and sensationalism like this one here. Only if we all understand this there can be searched for a real solution and how to tackle the issue. Saying bad gamer and toxic masculinity is not helping at all quite the opposite.

Shortly after this thread was posted I was pointed to a tweet from the EIC of Polygon making a reference to "Shouldn't we talk to the toxic gamers to get their view?" request someone else had said. Adding "A modest suggestion" to it.

The thread that followed was one-sided, dismissive, unsympathetic and, overall, pretty toxic.

 

[Cosmogony]

What an awfully long post yours is.

(…)

"Free Speech" advocates, particularly those in defense of the more unsavory topics, ironically keep me employed (as well as the contributors of this piece

Why the quotes? Do you understand and stand by the concept of free speech? You're not being clear enough here.

If I were to quantify it, I make about $2 (rounded up) for just about every time I read someone say "free speech" (I don't count) via freelance work.

So it's a private joke of yours.


(…)

Only when you change the character's race/ethnicity or gender does the audience have to pause and think about overcoming obstacles. For example, if a man gets into a fight, we don't automatically assume that they will lose like we do with a woman, who is perceived to be weaker, more vulnerable. I remember playing as Lee in TWD, and it was like "Oh ****. Black people actually exist," which was different from playing as Louis in L4D in a way that I can't quite articulate.

First you would have to establish that the concept of representation has any merit and real-life impact. I've read it asserted ad nauseum, never demonstrated. You be the first. I also would like to know where does it stop, Does any group or individual have the right to call for being represented in other people's IPs? If not, what's the criterion?

Hopefully, you have basic biologic facts in mind, such as on average men having e 40% more upper body strength than women.

He wasn't actually hideous externally. A little slovenly, but nothing some sun and a lap around the block every day couldn't fix. It was his demeanor, his intentionally pretentious demeanor that makes him ugly. During one scene, he requests to re-do the take. The director asks why. He says because he messed up saying something, and he won't look smart if he doesn't talk fast while doing it.

I was like, BOY THAT'S WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU!

And the point of this expert assessment woiuld be...?


(…)

Funding for propaganda aside, the "all sides hold equal weight" concept is one of the most disingenuous rhetorical strategies.

I agree.

AKA, the deployment of "both sides" while discussing Chancellorsville. Most of us wouldn't even know what ANTIFA was if Klansmen were not running around trying to protect their symbols of racism and discrimination.

So this a not-so subtle attempt to rationalize criminal behaviour by Antifa?
Roger.

Because the strategy of "anti-PC" seems to be effective, much to my personal chagrin, I am dismayed at the current aura of "**** civility." I prefer Michelle Obama's quote, "When they go low, we go high." Seems like there's currently a race to the botoom.

And yet you were excusing Antifa's behaviour just a moment ago.
Interesting.

That last paragraph basically answers the question as to why I don't talk about non-political things on GAF.

I can certainly think of a reason after this post of yours.

When I know I have, as the first paragraph in this section references, a "safe space" to talk about my existence as a whole, then I'll relax and joke and talk about play more.

Here, I gotta be on guard for the next time someone says "**** identity politics." Then it's TO ARMS!!!!

Yes, because making a cogent argument would be beyond some individuals. right?

*takes another swig of tea*

Man, this is some good ****!

Every...two months, there's a topic in OT about how "New GAF" is so much unlike the old one....

.

And on every single one of those threads it's inevitable the voice of reason will disguise itself as the proverbial too-cool-for-school attitude.

K, this is another weak argument. Christianity might be the most dominant religion now, but it is fading, and not just because of fedora-tippers who think religion is a pall, but from the rise of Islam. As the West becomes more accommodating toward other faith practices, such as Universalism, then yes, something as austere as Christianity will indeed be called into question, as it is one of the few faiths that declares that you can't get to heaven because of your merits (alone).

Actually this is a point of doctrinal dispute among Christians. The criteria for salvation varies from denomination to denomination, even among those who accept Sola Scriptura.

DISCOURSE IS NOT PROPAGANDA

I am grateful for three of those folks who have participated in the latest "how is GAF" thread in OT who have articulated things that I have....the catch-22 of "don't feed the troll," but wondering if someone will read their BS uncontested is exhausting, especially because I know that I probably won't enjoy the fruit that the work will bear, but the person after me will.

I thought you were going to explain exactly where the line of this apparently self-evident distinction lies. Too bad.

When I think about it, I have never *knowingly* encountered a black woman while playing online.

That's a problem, I think.

There would be a problem if black women in droves wanted to play but didn't for fear of harassment. Once you establish this, I'll be with you unreservedly.

Now we're back to my initial charge that "masculinity" needs a healthy re-definition if the mission of feminism is to destroy patriarchy.

It's the Quixotic mission of third wave intersectional feminism.

It's not their fault that they believe this, and I think there is genuine hope for them.

I think the world can only marvel at your empathy.

Like, there are a lot of folks out there who are genuinely good people but get swept up in the "men are toxic" argument, but get triggered and can't process why someone would say that, but instead, prepare for retaliatory action.

That's not my experience. I see people asking for evidence that patriarchy exists and I see evidence not being provided.

This is why I always say "reactionaries and progressives" rather than "right and left," so that even people from other countries whose political axes differ from the US know precisely what I am talking about.

Oh, I do know what you're talking about. I just don't accept those labels as adequately describing the groups you're trying to describe in such blatantly biased fashion.

Again, "**** identity politics" comes to mind.

You do know what the term entails? You do know its supporters do not shy away from using the term, right?

"When discussion ends, war begins," to paraphrase a well-known quote I can't remember right now.

Indeed. And there's one side actively trying to have it started as soon as possible.
It's not the only side, mind you, but it's definitely the most popular and active.

Gonna need a part 3 to this so that I can speak on the solutions, which are important.

Sure thing.

 

[Dunki]

Shortly after this thread was posted I was pointed to a tweet from the EIC of Polygon making a reference to "Shouldn't we talk to the toxic gamers to get their view?" request someone else had said. Adding "A modest suggestion" to it.

The thread that followed was one-sided, dismissive, unsympathetic and, overall, pretty toxic.

Toxic in dismissing the idea etc? Of course this is still Polygon and a total echo chamber i got perma banned from Polygon after I said in an article about MGSV and Quiet that she is not a misogynistic wet dream even pointing out why in a normal manner without accusing people being hostile etc.

If you want to have a discussion you need to do it on a neutral ground like for example a Pannel at PAX with participants of both sides and who present the points brought up to them via e-Mail etc. An open discussion on a message board these days is almost impossible these days. And this goes also for both sides of the argument since the atmosphere has become very toxic.

 

[Schrödinger's cat]

Toxic in dismissing the idea etc?

In as much as dismissing, giving one-sided reasons for dismissal, speaking on behalf of the silenced party, and then continuing a fabricated narrative.
A little outright hostility, but nothing excessive. But an overwhelming undercurrent of gleeful derision.

 

[klosos]

So I've given this another read ( dont know why , just alot of gibberish with no substance ) and something stood out to me , and this happens in a lot of this type of articles when they need to push an angle , what you don't ever see is the journalist/ Bloggers actually coming up with realistic answer to the problems . like How do we stop harassment , or how can we put tools in place to minimize harassment.

You see if they got a High Quality IT professional who could articulate how placing an algorithm in a game to spot unsavory language would benefit the end user . That would be a very interesting article and would be worth a read.

However what happens they roll out the same left leaning chatterboxes , who repeat the same talking point's , phrases like " Punching Down " " Challenging Societal norms" " Privilege" and " people with European heritage don't see people who don't look like them as equals" ( even tho the people who complain about to many whites in media are upset that the new Buffy is black women ) . This article really doesn't add anything new to a discussion not anything i haven't heard or read a hundred times before.

 

[Shifty]

The notion that shit-talking strangers online is a 'culture' is frankly laughable. It's assholes being assholes and embodying the greater internet fuckwad theory, plain and simple:

I've found the solution of "don't turn on voice chat with random fuckwads" to be extremely effective for several years now. Stick to people you know if you want bants.

 

[caffeware]

Wrong thread

 

[Lanrutcon]

I just think more people are assholes than we always thought, and now that we are exposed to so many people's thoughts each day we're quickly realising how wrong we were.

Note: actual assholes, not just people with opinions different to our own.

 

[Strife In a Teacup]

I don't like playing online unless I have had a chance to practice offline and feel confident. It was the same back in the arcade scene. I feel shitty if I fail in front of an audience. Being abused afterwards doesn't help me git gud.

That it was. I saw several fights break out at Arcades back in the day. I remember one younger kid who was good at the original Street Fighter 2 beat this older guy and was talking trash to him, the guy decked him in the head and knocked him out cold. He got thrown out by security.

At a later time I was beating this older guy at Tekken 2, and he threatened me straight up that if I beat him again he'd beat me up for real. I just went and played something else and told the Arcade owners about it and he was told to leave. Another time one of my friends really made another guy mad that was playing a nearby game with a certain sound on a certain game that my friend kept using repeatedly (the guy asked my friend to stop once), that guy grabbed my friend and had him up against the wall, threatening to beat the crap out of him. Security came and yanked the guy outside. He was then beating on the glass outside still threatening him/us.

Good ole Arcade days!

 

[Mahadev]

Ugh another one of these... articles. If you don't want "toxicity" in games stop making competitive games, I mean what a shocker, someone gets mad every once a while losing repeatedly in a game. Jesus, who gives a shit, either accept human nature or put your fucking communitions on mute. But no, these game "journalists" don't complain 24/7 because they're annoyed, they do it because they want to control other people's behavior.

 

[Valonquar]

Guess it's another slow news month over at Polygon.

 

[Teletraan1]

To the people wanting to hear from a diversity of experts in this article I don't think you have been paying attention to how sites like polygon, waypoint or kotaku work. They have already vilified the other viewpoint out of their insular bubble. To even give such viewpoints exposure would be tantamount to spreading these so called toxic views.

To the convo above. I cannot take anyone seriously that uses freedom of speech in quotes. The equality of opportunity that is built into law in most of western civilization was afforded precisely because freedom of speech. Had women, racial minorities, gays, trans not been afforded the right to speak out against discrimination (and continue to) the world would be a much worse place. You are going to hear some opinions that you don't like as well (like this article for some) but that is a small price to pay.

I just wish the games media would spend less time preaching and editorializing. Framing this as a problem with men rather than a problem of shitty immature people who are predominantly men isn't going to appeal to or change anything. Get some experts in human behavior rather than experts in hating men would be a good start.

 

[DeepEnigma]

To the people wanting to hear from a diversity of experts in this article I don't think you have been paying attention to how sites like polygon, waypoint or kotaku work. They have already vilified the other viewpoint out of their insular bubble. To even give such viewpoints exposure would be tantamount to spreading these so called toxic views.

To the convo above. I cannot take anyone seriously that uses freedom of speech in quotes. The equality of opportunity that is built into law in most of western civilization was afforded precisely because freedom of speech. Had women, racial minorities, gays, trans not been afforded the right to speak out against discrimination (and continue to) the world would be a much worse place. You are going to hear some opinions that you don't like as well (like this article for some) but that is a small price to pay.

I just wish the games media would spend less time preaching and editorializing. Framing this as a problem with men rather than a problem of shitty immature people who are predominantly men isn't going to appeal to or change anything. Get some experts in human behavior rather than experts in hating men would be a good start.

Well said, especially the last sentence.

 

[mckmas8808]

I'm honestly so sick of seeing this picture being used to say there's no diversity in games. I could easily post a picture with 36 characters from popular games that aren't white males so using this picture to prove a point is beyond stupid. Secondly, most of these games are either made in North America or Europe, by devs who are North American or European, with a North American or European protagonist, and made for the North American and European markets. As much as it displeases you and your buddies over at ERA, white people are still the majority in North America and Europe by a very large margin. It's therefore very logical to have a white protagonist. Lastly, most of these games have military ties or at least feature shooting guns in some capacity and statistics show there are way more men than women in the military and in general men fire guns way more often than women do so it makes sense to have a man as a protagonist if it's going to feature heavy shooting or be a military themed game.

I welcome diversity in games and have no problem playing characters that aren't white males but when you take into account everything I've just said, it makes logical sense that the protags in such games are often white males.

But if white males become a lower percentage of the leads in games (as an example going from 75% of the time they are the lead to 50%), would that be a problem with you?

 

[Spukc]

Tbh i don't play pvp games not because its toxic what it def is some games.
But because people cant proper play a game by the rules. Esp in fps games.
No teamwork at all.

Maybe playing with friends would be better but they too think mp gamea are toxic as hell and a complete waste of time.

I am from an couch coop era. That was cool mp imo.

I kinda enjoy pve as at least the computer plays like it is suppose to behave.

Just try to play sea of thieves with randoms.. who the hell enjoys that??
Maybe if i was toxic too i would enjoy mp games helping the stamp male gamers are toxic xD.

 

[Ulysses 31]

 

[Dunki]

But if white males become a lower percentage of the leads in games (as an example going from 75% of the time they are the lead to 50%), would that be a problem with you?

But this did already happen. Its right now prob even less than 50% of your white males. If you include Indy games the diversity rate is even higher. So why is this still a problem? I have not played a game with a white male protagonist in a while anyway.

 

[LucidFeuer]

 

[LucidFeuer]

"If you’d like to comment on this article, you can contact us via our email form, or on Facebook, Twitter and other social media outlets. We will publish the best comments in a follow-up article. "

This is what shocks me the most, the constant soft-fascistic censoring and silencing of any dissenting or even nuanced opinions...

I mean there clearly IS somewhat of an unwanted or unsanctioned "toxicity" amongst player, by both sexes by the way, in which case just a click on a button on your non-tangible digital interface, behind your screen, and you're done...which is why these causes are obnoxiously insensitive to real problems and causes, and show how actually privileged these people complaining about such mundane things are...

 

[Skyn3t]

That tweet and the drama VG247 made, accusing GOG of adding fuel to GamerGate. I've noticed it while browsing ResetEra, that journos are untouchable there. Probably for pushing the progressive agenda.

 

[Boss Mog]

But if white males become a lower percentage of the leads in games (as an example going from 75% of the time they are the lead to 50%), would that be a problem with you?

I believe that games are a form of art and that the creators have a right to create the games they want to with the protags they want to and if through this natural process the percentage of white male protag should decrease then that's fine. What I don't want is people forcing quotas on to devs for representation and diversity's sake. I don't really know where you got those 75% or 50% but let's say there was a rule that limited white male protags to only 50% of games, who would decide what devs and games get to have white protags and which ones don't? Would the demographics of the other 50% matter or not, as long as they weren't white males, if they did how exactly would you split it: half would be women? But men are already garanteed 50% thanks to the white male protag games so maybe women should be 75% of the remaining 50%, what about races, what percentages should they be? Its ridiculous to imagine such things really. Trying to force equality of outcome is always a terrible idea, what we need to do is create equality of opportunity for men and women of all races to be able to make games if they have the passion and talent for it and let them decide what kind of stories they want to tell and what kind of protags they want to create. Josef Fares is a talented and very passionate (as demonstrated at the game awards) developer born in Lebanon who moved to Sweden as a kid and went on to make a game about two white guys trying to escape prison in the US in the 70's because that's the story he wanted to tell. Would you fault him for making two white male protags?

 

[Arimer]

Shortly after this thread was posted I was pointed to a tweet from the EIC of Polygon making a reference to "Shouldn't we talk to the toxic gamers to get their view?" request someone else had said. Adding "A modest suggestion" to it.

The thread that followed was one-sided, dismissive, unsympathetic and, overall, pretty toxic.

The only place you'll see these peopel interact is places they are sure hold the same values as themselves. They aren't going to go anywhere that could run a chance of them stepping out of their bubble. That actually tends to be the issue with most people nowadays. They don't challenge their viewpoint.

 

[mckmas8808]

But this did already happen. Its right now prob even less than 50% of your white males. If you include Indy games the diversity rate is even higher. So why is this still a problem? I have not played a game with a white male protagonist in a while anyway.

The bolded is hard to believe. What do you consider a while?

I believe that games are a form of art and that the creators have a right to create the games they want to with the protags they want to and if through this natural process the percentage of white male protag should decrease then that's fine. What I don't want is people forcing quotas on to devs for representation and diversity's sake. I don't really know where you got those 75% or 50% but let's say there was a rule that limited white male protags to only 50% of games, who would decide what devs and games get to have white protags and which ones don't? Would the demographics of the other 50% matter or not, as long as they weren't white males, if they did how exactly would you split it: half would be women? But men are already garanteed 50% thanks to the white male protag games so maybe women should be 75% of the remaining 50%, what about races, what percentages should they be? Its ridiculous to imagine such things really. Trying to force equality of outcome is always a terrible idea, what we need to do is create equality of opportunity for men and women of all races to be able to make games if they have the passion and talent for it and let them decide what kind of stories they want to tell and what kind of protags they want to create. Josef Fares is a talented and very passionate (as demonstrated at the game awards) developer born in Lebanon who moved to Sweden as a kid and went on to make a game about two white guys trying to escape prison in the US in the 70's because that's the story he wanted to tell. Would you fault him for making two white male protags?

Not 1%. That's completely fine. But lets be honest here......people do question all the time why non white-guys are leads in a lot of games. And the conclusion lately seems to be that it's to fulfil an SJW agenda. Which is silly.

 

[Dunki]

The bolded is hard to believe. What do you consider a while?

Honestly I do not know.

Ok I played Detroit which had several one of them was white but also a women and a black guy. Kratos is also not white. JRPG characters are also not white. Far fcry is a custom character

I do not know. Uncharted 4? This is the last one I could clearly say. I know the next one will be spider man but thats all..
And also yes I play tons of games but I can not remember ANYONE white and male to be honest.

 

[ILLtown]

Tbh i don't play pvp games not because its toxic what it def is some games.
But because people cant proper play a game by the rules. Esp in fps games.
No teamwork at all.

Maybe playing with friends would be better but they too think mp gamea are toxic as hell and a complete waste of time.

I am from an couch coop era. That was cool mp imo.

I used to think like this, but my attitude has changed drastically this gen. I'm in my late 40s. Up until this gen I had around 25 people on my Xbox Live friends list - all people I knew in real life. I would primarily play single player games, only occasionally delving into online multiplayer.

Now 90% of my gaming time is spent playing multiplayer games online and I have ~430 friends on Xbox Live. I started actively seeking out people to play with on forums and Reddit, and quickly found cool people.

The Looking For Group feature on the Xbox One has been a godsend too, because you can say exactly what you're looking for and very quickly get a group together. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't, but I've made a bunch of friends through that, some of which I game with multiple times a week.

It's massively changed my opinion of online gaming. It's so nice playing a game like Overwatch and knowing you have people willing to play tanks and support characters, people who will switch if the team comp isn't working out etc., rather than the usual insta-locking of multiple DPS characters, and it's nice to be on a team that communicates and that you can have a laugh with. I definitely think it's worth putting a bit of time into seeking cool people out.

 

[zenspider]

One can only wonder how on earth Polygon knows the authors are male.

Regardless, would you be so kind to summarize it?
Polygon gets no clicks from me.

About a dozen gender studies majors thouroughly explaining the psychology of anonymous strangers.

 

[Cranberrys]

The gaming Community is like every other Community : there's great people and there's assholes. I play a lot of tennis, in my club there's great people and also assholes who Believe that a casual saturday morning game is like a Roland Garros final. Well, I Don't play with them but I'm not saying that the tennis fans are toxic as a whole. There's stupid people everywhere but also there's great people everywhere too.

I'm not a big multiplayer guy and I only like coop so when I play online I play with my friends. Sometimes, I use the group feature on Xbox One and I found some pretty cool people that way. I'm in my 40's and I was amazed to meet people who are around that demographic too, genuinely nice people.

So yeah maybe gaming is becoming more toxic now that it's more mainstream and more people are drawn into it but it's the side effect of a growing industry but that doesn't mean that suddenly everyone turned crazy and toxic. With a good screening process, you can easily avoid toxicity.

Believing that any Community, gaming or otherwise, will suddenly become like Disneyland with only nice people is a dream, a nice dream because yeah who wouldn't like it, but a dream nonetheless. Now if you leave the assholes among themselves they stop being a problem for you and then maybe we can all move on. It's better than reading articles stating the fact that we are, as a whole, a toxic Community. I met some incredible people, of all race and gender, in the gaming Community, people who care deeply about their fellow human and when I read stuff like that, it's not right by these people.

 

[Rodolfo Brito]

Why should they have to jump through hoops because someone is a scumbag?

This is the exact reason why I rarely play online. Even when it isn't aimed at me it's absolutely repulsive to hear.

Online gaming really brings out the cesspool of humanity.

The victims are not the ones that should be taking additional actions to enjoy something they have every right to.

I barely play games online, but for me, this is not a determinant factor. Again, I am talking about me.
I recognize that this is a huge issue for some people, but it's not like you couldn't play online without avoiding this.

I've never felt ofended on the internet because some random stupid person yells at me because I am not doing what he or she thinks that I should be doing. These people don't know me and I don't know them. That's why I am more prone to play online only with my friends and people that I actually know than playing with random people.