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Polygon: From sex symbol to icon: How Crystal Dynamics saved Lara Croft

I find her way more attractive than Lara Croft of old personally. I always consider the old Lara Croft someone who would shoot me in the kneecap should I talk out of turn (attractive in its own way, I guess).

That said, she was never a sex symbol (to me at least).
 

kadotsu

Banned
The irony is that in the old games you didn't really have to kill many people to get through it. It very much was possible for CD to make a game with challenge and danger, yet minimize the amount of game-y killing (and make each one a challenge and significant) but they fell into the same cognitive dissonance trap of making violence meaningful narrative-wise, but trivializing it gameplay-wise

They could have had a more Lara vs. harsh environment platforming and puzzles but wave based combat is just so much easier to design if you need to hit a certain game length.
 
Lara is very, very far from being among the best female character in gaming.

How could anyone put her on the same level as Max from LiS or Ellie from TLOU ? Those two are actually fleshed-out and interesting. Lara is a pretty standard action-hero.
 
As many have pointed out, she's less of an icon that she ever was, today. And if anything, I find her to be more sexualised. Polygon have some amazing long form articles, but they also publish a fair bit of rubbish. Thankfully most of the article is more documentative, because that header is atrocious.
 

inky

Member
I'm not Doctor or anything but that's something a psychotic person would say. Like a serial killer.

It's funny that people think that's her discovering some hidden strength inside her. If I remember correctly, she says that in a conversation with her mentor character. He warns her about how killing can change someone so she must be careful about it, then she says that: "Actually I was surprised at how easy it was". And yes, it is exactly what a psychopath would say, so it is baffling that some people think it is actually developing her in a positive light.

She becomes a fucking master assassin in no time, and you even start feeling for the enemies. They are supposed to be a cult of crazy murderers, but some of them just have casual conversations about how she's picking them off and killing them mercilessly and they begin to doubt their own intentions while making her sound as the real fucking demon in the island. Just another instance of hilariously broken dialogue. These guys are marooned in a island and can't get out. They are painted as a crazy cult following an even crazier leader who believes in and possesses supernatural forces (which exist in the game). They are scavengers that have lost their sanity and given way to madness to perform rituals and kill in horrific ways, yet they are written like they were a paramilitary group part of a Call of Duty game, talking about their patrol routes and stuff like that, not really like people who are way gone in the head.

I don't even want to talk about the other side characters. Just fucking poorly written boring racial stereotypes or jokes. Tough mom, ethnic guy who looks tough outside but is calm inside because he is in contact with his spirituality, infatuated nerd who dies for her, old mentor, etc. It's a joke.
 

jelly

Member
She was iconic before, not with the new games. I do really like the new design of Lara, if she wears a bloody coat, hello TR2013. Her character, I think they do okay with pushing her on with little bits here and there but the writing, storytelling and supporting characters if you could call them that are mostly poor. It's a weak character because they beat the crap out of her at every opportunity to make her seem tough.
 
Or a soldier? Someone who might be faced with killing lots of people to save their skin? People respond to it differently. There are those who are less troubled by it, and they are not all psychotic.
But she's not a soldier. She acts like one in the gameplay but in the cutscenes it's the complete opposite. My main point is she isn't someone to look up to or be a role model for someone.

Well she might be Psychotic, but I think you mean Psychopathic.
Thank you. Like I said I'm not a Doctor.
 
1) She was pretty iconic to begin with--I think people who think about the dark days of the PS2-early 360 era forget just what a phenomenon the series and the character was in the 90s, and not just because of boob. Hence stuff like this

Indeed. She was huge back in the 90's, it was crazy. That was definitely icon status, her popularity transcended gaming.
Now she's just another videogame character. The games are good imo, but they have been overselling the rebooted Lara like crazy ever since the game was revealed.
The reboot did drag the franchise out of the cesspool it fell into because of AoD but let's stop pretending it's having the impact it had in the 32 bit era. The character may not be as sexualized as it was then (fortunately) but that was when it had the icon status, not now.
They succeeded in making the franchise relevant again while portraying the character in a far less sexualized manner and that's definitely a big win, but they really need to stop pretending they set a new benchmark for the writing of female videogame characters.
 

Vlaphor

Member
I miss classic Lara Croft, and not just because of the boobs. I miss the fun she was having in her adventures. It sounded like she legitimately enjoyed her adventure and that enjoyment passed on through to the players. I haven't played the new one (waiting for PC), but the previous one felt kinda like a chore to play. She hated being there, and her personality fluctuated from "I'm so scared and sad" to "Imma kill all you motherfuckers!" over a very short time. Fun game, but I prefer the Lara character from the last Trilogy.

Actually, thinking about it some more, best Lara Croft character was from the original Top Cow comic series
 
I disagree with some of your points. Lara discovers her strength early in the game. In an overlooked moment, after she first kills someone, she says (paraphrasing) "it's surprising how easy it was". She makes it sound like she has discovered new found strength. She is believably troubled by the insanity surrounding her, but constantly summons the will to save (or try to save) multiple people, all on her own. I just can't see that as "weak crying vulnerable". More like "human but heroic".

I think it's just a throwaway line to explain why she has to start shooting hordes of guys within 20 minutes of the game starting, which is obviously there for gameplay reasons but clashes with the motif they are going for.

The annoying thing for me is the question of why Lara needed to be remade. We have so many unapologetic badass male heroes in games, she was one of the few that stood up with all the rest and didn't need some traumatic origin story or a series of games that gradually build her into a hero. She just WAS one from the beginning. But because she's a woman now we need to start explaining stuff, and one of the few iconic female badasses in gaming gets turned into a whimpering girl who is constantly brutalized in the name of 'character development'.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
As many have pointed out, she's less of an icon that she ever was, today. And if anything, I find her to be more sexualised. Polygon have some amazing long form articles, but they also publish a fair bit of rubbish. Thankfully most of the article is more documentative, because that header is atrocious.
The fact that people are calling this version of Lara Croft:
3TlOPqk.jpg


more sexualized than this version of Lara Croft:

Especially when you consider things like the cinematography and the marketing. Is ridiculous.

I think it's just a throwaway line to explain why she has to start shooting hordes of guys within 20 minutes of the game starting, which is obviously there for gameplay reasons but clashes with the motif they are going for.

The annoying thing for me is the question of why Lara needed to be remade. We have so many unapologetic badass male heroes in games, she was one of the few that stood up with all the rest and didn't need some traumatic origin story or a series of games that gradually build her into a hero. She just WAS one from the beginning. But because she's a woman now we need to start explaining stuff, and one of the few iconic female badasses in gaming gets turned into a whimpering girl who is constantly brutalized in the name of 'character development'.
They explain this in the article, (which I feel like many aren't actually reading).
The box cover to Tomb Raider: Underworld didn’t even show Lara’s face, rather focusing on her breasts and bare midriff. By 2008, this formula seemed somewhat dated. And while Underworld featured gorgeous animations and groundbreaking physics-based gameplay, the idea of a sexy heroine wasn’t as novel as it was in 1996.

"After we got to Underworld, we felt like we had taken that character as far as we could," said Rich Briggs, the brand manager for Crystal Dynamics told me. "We had to imagine her in a whole new way."
 
It's funny that people think that's her discovering some hidden strength inside her. If I remember correctly, she says that in a conversation with her mentor character. He warns her about how killing can change someone so she must be careful about it, then she says that: "Actually I was surprised at how easy it was". And yes, it is exactly what a psychopath would say, so it is baffling that some people think it is actually developing her in a positive light.

She becomes a fucking master assassin in no time, and you even start feeling for the enemies. They are supposed to be a cult of crazy murderers, but some of them just have casual conversations about how she's picking them off and killing them mercilessly and they begin to doubt their own intentions while making her sound as the real fucking demon in the island. Just another instance of hilariously broken dialogue. These guys are marooned in a island and can't get out. They are painted as a crazy cult following an even crazier leader who believes in and possesses supernatural forces (which exist in the game). They are scavengers that have lost their sanity and given way to madness to perform rituals and kill in horrific ways everyone else who gets stranded there and doesn't join them, yet they are written like they were a paramilitary group part of a Call of Duty game, talking about their patrol routes and acting like they are on a military mission.

this is a fantastic summary. better than I could have put it.

the bolded sentence is one of the things that struck me as odd too, imagine if they actually followed that through to an actually meaningful conclusion.
 

Garlador

Member
Just based on pure numbers, it's probably true. But relative to how the rest of the industry has grown, she's likely not as relevant as she was in the 90's.

Not even likely. She isn't.

Lara Croft was second only to Mario for a period in the 90s as the most recognizable face of video games. She was everywhere.

The annoying thing for me is the question of why Lara needed to be remade. We have so many unapologetic badass male heroes in games, she was one of the few that stood up with all the rest and didn't need some traumatic origin story or a series of games that gradually build her into a hero. She just WAS one from the beginning. But because she's a woman now we need to start explaining stuff, and one of the few iconic female badasses in gaming gets turned into a whimpering girl who is constantly brutalized in the name of 'character development'.
Yeah...
...
See also:
the-baby.jpeg


I think Lara at least came across as a stronger character by the end, even if the first half of the game was basically the "let's beat up the Posh Brit Girl" sitcom saga. Samus ended her game emotionally weaker in my mind than when she started.
 

-tetsuo-

Unlimited Capacity
She was always an icon and she looks better than ever though?

And Lara is obviously a killer born. I mean did y'all not play TR 2013?
 

Ralemont

not me
New Lara's design is incredible, but her VA is only so-so and they didn't characterize her that consistently in TR 2013. CD definitely has their heart in the right place, but they don't have the writing chops.

But to reiterate: I absolutely love her new design.

She becomes a fucking master assassin in no time, and you even start feeling for the enemies. They are supposed to be a cult of crazy murderers, but some of them just have casual conversations about how she's picking them off and killing them mercilessly and they begin to doubt their own intentions while making her sound as the real fucking demon in the island.

See I thought this was intentional, especially after her Apocalypse Now moment rising from the blood river. But then they didn't do anything with it.
 
That is blatantly false and FAR from the case. Lara was not just a videogame icon in the past, she was a cultural icon.

Fine, fair.

Do you at least agree that it has made her a more popular video game character?

Because I think you have a hard time explaining the success of TR2013 and the subsequent outrage over Microsoft's exclusivity deal if New Lara and her New Adventures are not hugely popular. More so than Old Lara Croft was in her final years.

Her popularity in 1996 versus the cultural indifference of her later games only shows that her popularity had faded because her concept simply didn't have a long shelf life.
 

Hari Seldon

Member
I like both versions, but I probably like the old version slightly better due to being a fan of bad ass action heroes rather than fake vulnerability. They are both sexy as fuck, just the new one uses more realistic graphics and therefore they had to tone down the cartoon jessica rabbit stuff.
 

Kinyou

Member
As many have pointed out, she's less of an icon that she ever was, today. And if anything, I find her to be more sexualised. Polygon have some amazing long form articles, but they also publish a fair bit of rubbish. Thankfully most of the article is more documentative, because that header is atrocious.
What would you say is sexualised about her in the new game? I haven't played it yet but in all the trailers/gameplay I have seen nothing that seems gratuitous
 

NeoRaider

Member
She is an icon! One of the most recognizable characters in gaming industry for so long now.
Also CD nailed her design in ROTTR, everything about it is so good. They did an amazing job!
 

sono

Member
She's *actually* sexy now, compared to whatever weird version of sexy she was supposed to be before.

I think she is completely forgetable now.

I dont particually want a lead game character in tomb raider to be emotionally relatable human being either.

I need Angelina Jolie kicking arse and in shorts, thanks
 

Faustek

Member
She's been an iconic character for a long ass time. It's just that what makes her iconic is shifting.

Yepp, but I must wonder if this praise are largely due to some rather not so large assets these days. Don't get me wrong the new model is great and I agree to the change but isn't this what everyone has been saying that they don't want? At least it always came up in previous diversity threads.
Drake with tits but instead a new character?
New Lara is apparently not aimed at me but sticking your head up your own ass is not a good show. Praising the other cast for being diverse is skin deep at most.

I think she is completely forgetable now.

I dont particually want a lead game character in tomb raider to be emotionally relatable human being either.

I need Angelina Jolie kicking arse and in shorts, thanks

Ms.Jolie was way a better actress than I ever thought. 😄
 

Roubjon

Member
Lara is very, very far from being among the best female character in gaming.

How could anyone put her on the same level as Max from LiS or Ellie from TLOU ? Those two are actually fleshed-out and interesting. Lara is a pretty standard action-hero.

But how many non-sexualized female action heroes do we have in games? Very, very few. Hence why it's great she exists in her current form.
 
But she's not a soldier. She acts like one in the gameplay but in the cutscenes it's the complete opposite. My main point is she isn't someone to look up to or be a role model for someone.
Her first combat cut-scene in the new game
involves her blowing up an ancient temple and bringing it down upon a dozen guards. She's still rambo, and doesnt seem to give many fucks for preserving ancient history,
though thats kindof always been the case.
 

thumb

Banned
I think it's just a throwaway line to explain why she has to start shooting hordes of guys within 20 minutes of the game starting, which is obviously there for gameplay reasons but clashes with the motif they are going for.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this point. I don't consider the line "throwaway", I consider it revelatory for her character and her internal state. I do agree that they should have spent more time on this.

The annoying thing for me is the question of why Lara needed to be remade. We have so many unapologetic badass male heroes in games, she was one of the few that stood up with all the rest and didn't need some traumatic origin story or a series of games that gradually build her into a hero. She just WAS one from the beginning. But because she's a woman now we need to start explaining stuff, and one of the few iconic female badasses in gaming gets turned into a whimpering girl who is constantly brutalized in the name of 'character development'.

I find emotionless badasses incredibly boring, be they male or female. There's little to no character development that can occur. They are already unstoppable and above it all. I suspect CD felt similarly.
 

I loved TR2013, but that claim is an absolute load of bullshit. The writing was far and away the worst part of the game, and Lara herself was an incredibly bland protagonist.

Unless the script in ROTTR is an astronomical leap forward compared to the last game I'm not buying it.
 
Fine, fair.

Do you at least agree that it has made her a more popular video game character?

Because I think you have a hard time explaining the success of TR2013 and the subsequent outrage over Microsoft's exclusivity deal if New Lara and her New Adventures are not hugely popular. More so than Old Lara Croft was in her final years.

Her popularity in 1996 versus the cultural indifference of her later games only shows that her popularity had faded because her concept simply didn't have a long shelf life.

I'd argue that the failure of the franchise pre-reboot was due to the games not being quality. They looked budget and Eidos back then was going through some rough times.
 
Lara was turned from a sexually confident and absolutely competent action heroine into a feeble whimpering "believable" (lol) mess of a character whose hardships were presented with a borderline perverted glee.

The general accepting of the new character as a superior feminist role model shows how willing so-called progressives are to cheer on a character once you just tone down the cleavage.
 
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