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[eastwood333]

Yeah, but about you : Tom Warren,rogame,Komachi,DF own sources,Windows Central,Arthur Gies,Dylan522p,RedTechGaming etc..
Arthur Gies...
But rogame provided AMDs data info with PS5 tests which are from May 2019 and DF didn't confirmed in any way that XSX really is 12 TF RDNA.

Again,komachi/rogame revealed REAL spec documents. Not rumors,no "i talk to a dev and he said so and so". Try again.

 

[it_wasn't_me]

Again,komachi/rogame revealed REAL spec documents. Not rumors,no "i talk to a dev and he said so and so". Try again.

I've never said that documents aren't legit. But they are +7 months OLD in PS5 case. Cheers!

 

[eastwood333]

This thread is about raytracing, isn't it?

Didn't read your entire post.

Read the context of my post. I was clearly talking about 12tf vs 9.2 in addition to RT,like many others on here.

 

[DESTROYA]

Theres a whole mob coming after me i dont know whats itching them, theyr constantly attacking me. Some how

Nobodies coming after you just pointing out your baseless opinions that not too many agree with, it’s not a personal attack just figuring out things with logic and not emotionally charged rumors.

Members are human beings and human beings plot things, it aint the first time its happened, happens every time when people lose arguments they turn to cheap tacticts.

I don’t think a single person lost a argument pointing out how bad your options are. I posted earlier where I asked you to point out my weak arguments so I could maybe go into more detail but you just attacked on a personal level and called me thick headed and everybody else that disagreed with you like the example below.

Bro im fighting idiots in this thread calling me a troll and a list for posting gt sport running st 8k 120, fps and podting cerny remarks. Its astonishing how stupid people can get theres a big mob crucifying me here for simply posting what sony and ms showed.

Yeah, you may be having fun, but the rest of us are just shaking our heads.

And for fucks sake, if you're not 13 years old, don't type like one, it's very much annoying.

I got to agree with this post, at this point even you can’t believe that crap your posting and just trolling us for giggles, and yes you type like a 13 year old and is extremely annoying.

 

[eastwood333]

And someone can't read shit.
I've never said that documents aren't legit. But they are +7 months OLD in PS5 case. Cheers!

And i already addressed that. PS5 is going from 9.2tf to 12tf+ in the span of a few months? Then whats stopping XSX from going from 12tf to 13 or 14tf since the leaked documents?

 

[Fafalada]

The docs prove sonys TR method is not from AMD.

Actually they don't - the docs show a lack of evidence of RT in tested chips.

The PR 'evidence' around RT post-dates the docs, so if anything - you can make an argument that PR statement supports your deduction(RT being a different implementation), not that it's coming from the docs. And even then - it's just a deduction with no actual proof.

 

[01011001]

here is the thing ok... there is no way in hell the PS5 outperforms the Series X, Microsoft won't let this happen... Spencer made it clear that he thinks being the most powerful system is what the Xbox brand is to him and he wants that to be how the public sees the Xbox brand.

which means he will make damn sure that they get the best possible parts you can put into the system at a price level that is expected from a home console.

and if the 12tf are indeed what they are aiming for then that would be on the upper end of the console price range, maybe even being a 600€ console like the PS3 was, because a 12TF gpu isn't cheap, especially with RT cores thrown in.

this is why I absolutely expect that, if Series X turns out to be a 12TF system, the PS5 will be in the 9TF range in order to keep the price at 500 or below.

and if Microsoft doesn't have a compelling low end version (Series S) that strategy could get Sony the win, at least initially.

and the fact that Microsoft seems to have a Series S, or whatever they might call it, at least in the works tells me that Series X will be pretty expensive which makes the 12TF claims more plausible.

in the end the results of the next gen hardware battle between Sony and Microsoft will be dependent on a few factors.
A: how much are the consoles in relation to what they can deliver
B: does Microsoft release a low end system at a cheap price that can still provide a next gen experience
C: How brand loyal is the average consumer when it comes to consoles, or how willing are they to change ecosystems (this is why Backwards compatibility is more important than ever imo)

I absolutely expect the PS5 to be wedged in-between 2 Xbox Systems, one more powerful than it and one less powerful than it.

I also expect that all 3 systems will have dedicated raytracing hardware and will support 4k120hz/8k60hz output modes.
I also expect that the raytracing hardware to be differentiated between Sony and Microsoft, it could be that Sony worked on their own solution due to a planned 2019 launch and them knowing that AMD's hardware wouldn't be ready for that time window.

in the end, I don't really care which one is more capable.
I will get both eventually anyways and I'll play multiplatform games on whichever consoles plays them best... with the rise of crossplay support this shouldn't be an issue even if a friend of mine happens to play on a different system.

 

[it_wasn't_me]

And i already addressed that. PS5 is going from 9.2tf to 12tf+ in the span of a few months? Then whats stopping XSX from going from 12tf to 13 or 14tf since the leaked documents?

XSX's 12 TF was always a target spec, Xbox man! Literally from beginning! Never was less, never was more
But PS5 is allowed to go from 13 TF target specs to 9.2 TF in few months. Loss of 40% GPU power!!! This is THE ONLY POSSIBLE WAY.
Btw. leaked documents also shows 2 bandwidth speeds : 448 and 550 GB/s. Which is it? Must be lower or 448. Only is that possible.

Uh.....

 

[DESTROYA]

You should try acting like how u write, u just said its opinions. So why are u insulting me for posting my opinions?

Thats rich coming from u r shud I start posting lik this to start acting lik u? I feel like a rel man now posting lik dis, how did I never do dis bfore?

 

[eastwood333]

The truth is we don't know the hard specs on anything yet, until officialy given...My argument is that in the here and now, I will believe what Cerny said
as opposed to people with a leaning towards MS and MS hardware...….It's not farfetched at all......When these companies unveil their specs, we can all go back and thrash out who was closest and speak of the merits or FUD of 8-9TF or no hardware raytracing for PS5 vs 12TF on the XBOX.....

It's just speculation season, but no one should feel so convinced that he implies people should believe Penello, Leadbetter and leakers over Cerny on PS5 hardware, that's just insane logic....

Over Cerny?Has Cerny refutted the 9.2 tf claim? If not,then how can you believe Cerny when he hasn't made ANY statement in regards to how many TF PS5 has?

 

[Azelover]

I wonder if they're gonna be making fake demos again..

I'm not convinced, what we were told so far will signify a true generational leap in actuality.

 

[nowhat]

I wonder if they're gonna be making fake demos again..

One was just leaked!

 

[Fake]

WTF is going on here?

 

[eastwood333]

XSX's 12 TF was always a target spec, Xbox man! Literally from beginning! Never was less, never was more
But PS5 is allowed to go from 13 TF target specs to 9.2 TF in few months. Loss of 40% GPU power!!! This is THE ONLY POSSIBLE WAY.
Btw. leaked documents also shows 2 bandwidth speeds : 448 and 550 GB/s. Which is it? Must be lower or 448. Only is that possible.

Uh.....

AGAIN,because you are going by the words of a few so called insiders who claim to have talked to a dev or so. Its hearsay. It could simpley be bad info,outdated info etc...With regards to XSX being more powerful,there are real documents that support very credible insiders

 

[ethomaz]

Even though HDMI 2.1 does not support 8k 120fps, Display Port 2.0 does, and it also supports 16k 60fps......I'm sure PS5 will have a Display Port as well...

HDMI 2.1 supports up to 10k120fps.

• 4K50/60
• 4K100/120
• 5K50/60
• 5K100/120
• 8K50/60
• 8K100/120
• 10K50/60
• 10K100/120

HDMI 2.1b Specification Overview

HDMI 2.1b technology enables end-to-end 8K & 4K solutions, faster refresh rates, and Dynamic HDR support. ✓ Click here to learn more about HDMI 2.1b

www.hdmi.org

 

[Psykodad]

Read the context of my post. I was clearly talking about 12tf vs 9.2 in addition to RT,like many others on here.

Fair enough.

I just wouldn't put everything on anything not coming from either Sony or MS and wait til official specs have been revealed before celebrating either way.

 

[Tumle]

Uuh isn’t this a nice thread..

 

[Shangounchained]

HDMI 2.1 supports up to 10k120fps.

• 4K50/60
• 4K100/120
• 5K50/60
• 5K100/120
• 8K50/60
• 8K100/120
• 10K50/60
• 10K100/120

HDMI 2.1b Specification Overview

HDMI 2.1b technology enables end-to-end 8K & 4K solutions, faster refresh rates, and Dynamic HDR support. ✓ Click here to learn more about HDMI 2.1b

www.hdmi.org

 

[thelastword]

Over Cerny?Has Cerny refutted the 9.2 tf claim? If not,then how can you believe Cerny when he hasn't made ANY statement in regards to how many TF PS5 has?

People are talking many things here even though it's a raytracing thread....I'm talking about RT as it relates to Cerny, hardware RT...….


As for the TF, we don't know the final spec, but none of the rumors whether favorable to PS5 or less favorable are concrete, it's all speculation......Komachi and the other guys sees many variations of hardware being tested, no one knows for sure what is PS5 and what is XBOX......So many of these tests runs at varying clock speeds, varied memory setups etc...., there are so many code names making the pile, who knows what number of APU's AMD is working on...……..

A few devs say PS5 is more powerful, I think that's more concrete though, than Penello, Leadbetter saying Series X is more Powerful, the devs have the dev kits afterall…….This is where it stands, beyond that, nothing is official, specs can be updated or are probably not finalized on either side...….Nobody should be as forceful on specs till Cerny and the MS Guy (Leadbetter's reveal) give us the official breakdown....

 

[ethomaz]

Read the context of my post. I was clearly talking about 12tf vs 9.2 in addition to RT,like many others on here.

9TF is Panello prediction for PS5 lol

 

[it_wasn't_me]

AGAIN,because you are going by the words of a few so called insiders who claim to have talked to a dev or so. Its hearsay. It could simpley be bad info,outdated info etc...With regards to XSX being more powerful,there are real documents that support very credible insiders

Of course they will support it because those docs are AMD's, not some paper from kindergarten. But those AMD's docs regarding PS5 are 7+ months old. And they didn't have Ray Tracing in it, but Fafalada explained it to you how.

 

[Shangounchained]

Ive got pdf slides of gran turismos raytracing tech just dont know how to post them or translate the pdfs language, its in japanese

Publications - Polyphony Digital - ポリフォニー・デジタル

Publications

www.polyphony.co.jp

 

[ethomaz]

?

These are official HDMI 2.1 specs bro.

Are you denying a fact?

 

[vkbest]

I wonder how many developers have to say that PS5 supports ray tracing for people begin to believe

 

[reconminicon]

PlayStation ray tracing is going to be sooooooooo much more super than XBox. I'm mega excited.

 

[01011001]

HDMI 2.1 supports up to 10k120fps.

• 4K50/60
• 4K100/120
• 5K50/60
• 5K100/120
• 8K50/60
• 8K100/120
• 10K50/60
• 10K100/120

HDMI 2.1b Specification Overview

HDMI 2.1b technology enables end-to-end 8K & 4K solutions, faster refresh rates, and Dynamic HDR support. ✓ Click here to learn more about HDMI 2.1b

www.hdmi.org

the page you linked repeatedly mentions 4k120hz and 8k60hz

and that's what I heard everywhere else aswell.
could it be that it theoretically supports this but no TV or cable on the market does?

 

[CyberPanda]

Is the OP Dennis dyack but with autism?

 

[thelastword]

HDMI 2.1 supports up to 10k120fps.

• 4K50/60
• 4K100/120
• 5K50/60
• 5K100/120
• 8K50/60
• 8K100/120
• 10K50/60
• 10K100/120

HDMI 2.1b Specification Overview

HDMI 2.1b technology enables end-to-end 8K & 4K solutions, faster refresh rates, and Dynamic HDR support. ✓ Click here to learn more about HDMI 2.1b

www.hdmi.org

Thanks Etho, I was looking for the official specs, but only saw it was possible through some 48Gbps cables.....Last time I checked the specs, it didn't support 8k 120fps, but I told folk then, technology is not set in stone, it's a moving medium...…..I still remember in one of the old threads saying that since Display Port supports 8k 120fps and 16k 60fps, the HDMI 2.1 spec might be updated to compete.....Seems it's what we have here......Man it's just so tedious hearing people say all the time that something is impossible...…..Same thing happened when I first spoke of SSD's and also if you remember when it was first leaked that PS4 would have 8GB's of Ram...…..people were all down on the "impossible" posts......PS5 and 8k, no way they said, for menus, pics etc.... now Series X supports 8k too, there was no fallen gods (godfall) from that announcement, all is fine, Series X will support SSD's, no issues either...……..MS will never relinquish power to PS and all that jazz, so it's all according to KeiKaku…. We only question PS specs and features...

 

[ethomaz]

the page you linked repeatedly mentions 4k120hz and 8k60hz

and that's what I head everywhere else aswell.
could it be that it theoretically supports this but no TV or cable on the market does?

Look for “supported resolution and framerate”... I copied the exact text from there.

TV and others hardware needs to be compatible with the compression used in HDMI 2.1.

AnamdTech has a full table of suportes resolutions.

 

[ethomaz]

Thanks Etho, I was looking for the official specs, but only saw it was possible through some 48Gbps cables.....Last time I checked the specs, it didn't support 8k 120fps, but I told folk then, technology is not set in stone, it's a moving medium...…..I still remember in one of the old threads saying that since Display Port supports 8k 120fps and 16k 60fps, the HDMI 2.1 spec might be updated to compete.....Seems it's what we have here......Man it's just so tedious hearing people say all the time that something is impossible...…..Same thing happened when I first spoke of SSD's and also if you remember when it was first leaked that PS4 would have 8GB's of Ram...…..people were all down on the "impossible" posts......PS5 and 8k, no way they said, for menus, pics etc.... now Series X supports 8k too, there was no fallen gods (godfall) from that announcement, all is fine, Series X will support SSD's, no issues either...……..MS will never relinquish power to PS and all that jazz, so it's all according to KeiKaku…. We only question PS specs and features...

It uses the same lossless compression of DisplayPort to pass 8k and 10k 120fps over the 48Gbps cable.

 

[Shangounchained]

?

These are official HDMI 2.1 specs bro.

Are you denying a fact?

No im laughing to the people who claimed hdmi 2.1 cant support 8k laugh wiz me beaho bwaho bwaho bwaho.... Too many liars in here

 

[ethomaz]

All resolutions and framerate supported by HDMI 2.1 .
The red Ultra High are the ones that require DSC (Display Stream Compression).

Actual 8k TVs have support to DSC 1.1 that allow HDMI 2.1 reaches 8k60fps.
I’m sure the 2020 lineup 8k TVs will come with DSC 1.2 that allow HDMI 2.1 to reach 10k120fps but of course in a 8k TV it will be limited to 8k120fps.
New 10k TVs will obvious have DSC 1.2 to HDMI 2.1 reaches 10k120fps.

 

[thelastword]

Ive got pdfs of gran turismos raytracing tech just dont know how to post them or trnaslate pdfs languages

I'm pretty sure lots of folk here aren't interested in such info here...…….Do you happen to have GTS info from Penello, Windows Central, Arthur Gies, Brad Sams, Tim Lot etc...? Now these guys would have pretty kosher info on GTS and all things Sony......Any PDF's from those bad boys?

 

[Shangounchained]

Thanks Etho, I was looking for the official specs, but only saw it was possible through some 48Gbps cables.....Last time I checked the specs, it didn't support 8k 120fps, but I told folk then, technology is not set in stone, it's a moving medium...…..I still remember in one of the old threads saying that since Display Port supports 8k 120fps and 16k 60fps, the HDMI 2.1 spec might be updated to compete.....Seems it's what we have here......Man it's just so tedious hearing people say all the time that something is impossible...…..Same thing happened when I first spoke of SSD's and also if you remember when it was first leaked that PS4 would have 8GB's of Ram...…..people were all down on the "impossible" posts......PS5 and 8k, no way they said, for menus, pics etc.... now Series X supports 8k too, there was no fallen gods (godfall) from that announcement, all is fine, Series X will support SSD's, no issues either...……..MS will never relinquish power to PS and all that jazz, so it's all according to KeiKaku…. We only question PS specs and features...

Same here people simply jump online and criticise everything, as if they know stuff, ps4 suprised everyone with 8gb gddr5 when everybody on gaf shouted and beat their chests that only 4gb will be max,

this gen they said no way 4k was capable then the one x came out, and now they said raytracing is totally impossible they cursed and everything and the inevitable happens again.

 

[Shangounchained]

I'm pretty sure lots of folk here aren't interested in such info here...…….Do you happen to have GTS info from Penello, Windows Central, Arthur Gies, Brad Sams, Tim Lot etc...? Now these guys would have pretty kosher info on GTS and all things Sony......Any PDF's from those bad boys?

I have pdfs from gran turismo creators, polyphony digital on raytracing concerning gt sport. Thats all heres the link

Publications - Polyphony Digital - ポリフォニー・デジタル

Publications

www.polyphony.co.jp

 

[Psykodad]

Same here people simply jump online and criticise everything, as if they know stuff, ps4 suprised everyone with 8gb gddr5 when everybody on gaf shouted and beat their chests that only 4gb will be max,

this gen they said no way 4k was capable then the one x came out, and now they said raytracing is totally impossible they cursed and everything and the inevitable happens again.

People also said KZSF and Infamous Second Son graphics wouldn't be possible on PS4 hardware.

Even people with tech knowledge are full of it.

 

[BigLee74]

But those AMD's docs regarding PS5 are 7+ months old.

Remind me again, how old are these docs? I don't think you've mentioned it for 0.00001 seconds and I'm in serious danger of forgetting.

Shit-fest of a thread again. People are just outright embarrassing themselves

 

[thelastword]

Is the OP Dennis dyack but with autism?

These are the guys who say people are always trolling XBOX threads and they can't have a conversation/discussion...….Clearly, he's not interested in having a dialogue in the thread, but here he is...….From what I've seen, Shango have not attacked anyone who has not hurled insults at him first...….

People also said KZSF and Infamous Second Son graphics wouldn't be possible on PS4 hardware.

Even people with tech knowledge are full of it.

Apparently people are more concerned about their allegiance over their tech knowledge...…...First they say it was not possible, then when it launches, they say it's not graphically impressive...…..

 

[it_wasn't_me]

Remind me again, how old are these docs? I don't think you've mentioned it for 0.00001 seconds and I'm in serious danger of forgetting.

Shit-fest of a thread again. People are just outright embarrassing themselves

Regarding PS5's tests, it's from May 2019. I've mentioned it on Next-gen thread. Find out this morning reading comments on other forum. Of course, i'm not dataminer.

 

[magnumpy]

so both PS5 and XSX have ray tracing. and PC. everything but nintendo

 

[thelastword]

I have pdfs from gran turismo creators, polyphony digital on raytracing concerning gt sport. Thats all heres the link

Publications - Polyphony Digital - ポリフォニー・デジタル

Publications

www.polyphony.co.jp

Ha ha read the post again...….All the guys I mentioned are MS guys......Apparently in late 2019, MS knows more about Sony than Sony themselves.....


Btw, I posted a thread with video on that 8K video in late 2018......Lots of these guys are aware of what Sony showed with GTS, they just refuse to accept it...

 

[PocoJoe]

You have to listen carefully. He said „accelerated“ ray tracing.
So, it doesn’t use a dedicated chip for ray tracing. Other resources are used for ray tracing. And that’s the problem here.
Xbox Series X has a dedicated chip which only purpose is ray tracing, whereas the PS5 does not.

You have to learn carefully.

Have you ever heard about 3D accelerators? Aka graphics cards.

So saying accelerated ray tracing literally means hardware that does tray tracing faster than hardware without dedicated parts for it

Dunno how you even managed to read it as "non dedicated".

And if/when it is integrated in the APU or GPU, you cant even say there is "a chip for tray tracing"

 

[GribbleGrunger]

Before a generation begins, it's always power that will win the day, towards the end of every generation, we realise it was the first party support and exclusives that won the generation, and yet every generation begins as if people can't remember that. Weird.

 

[INC]

Shame all ray tracing seems to do is half your frame rate ATM, yet to see a "wow" game yet using it.

Recommendations? Pc obviously

 

[Ivellios]

Shame all ray tracing seems to do is half your frame rate ATM, yet to see a "wow" game yet using it.

Recommendations? Pc obviously

Control has really great use of ray tracing. I read people sayinb Metro Exodus use it very well too, but i never saw that much difference in the comparison videos.

 

[Gargus]

I know but recent rumours claimed ps5 wont support it n they made jokes that itll only be ray traced audio

So mark cerny, the guy who is working on the ps5 in a interview says it will have it is trumped by a rumor and a joke?

 

[Bogey]

Isn't Ray tracing a bit of a meaningless term?

I'm no expert but correct me if wrong. But we have stuff like quake raytraced, which is fully raytraced and can barely be handled by the most expensive gpus these days, in spite of its antique geometry etc.
And then we have stuff like metro and what not, where Raytracing means some puddle of mud's reflection looks slightly different to another when directly compared via Screenshots.

Given such a range of usages (and hardware requirements) , can we really infer anything meaningful from that statement?

 

[Mobilemofo]

Without raytracing 4k 30fps.

With raytracing 720p 25 fps

 

[Verchod]

This thread is a messy read.
Have we been infiltrated by morons?

 

[SleepDoctor]

This thread is a messy read.
Have we been infiltrated by morons?

Honestly the shitposting is so bad i don't know which thread im in if i don't look at the title lol