With all the threads on Dragon Ball Super over the past few months, a month or so ago I decided to [re-]watch all of the Dragon Ball shows from the beginning. As a kid/teen I saw most of the episodes of Dragon Ball and Z on TV here and there, but most of my understanding came from playing some of the games which re-told the story in order. The only series I'd ever previously seen in-order start to finish was GT, which I quite liked at the time.
As of today, I've just finished Dragon Ball and am ready to start Z. But before I did that, I thought it would be fun to start a bit of discussion about Dragon Ball. I originally intended on watching sub, but after starting I realized the dub just felt more right with my memories so I went with that (Funimation).
In my memory, Dragon Ball was always my favourite of the three shows. Kid Goku was and continues to be my favourite of the protagonists. I also liked the search for the Dragon Balls (or other macguffins) and exposure to new places and vignettes. The show also introduces a revolving door of quirky and interesting characters, and people who are forgettable by Z are very charming here: Bulma, Oolong, Krillin and Yajirobe are all fun to spend time with in DB. I think these impressions held up, but in the re-watch I noticed for the first time how gradual the descent into Z-like combat and padding is.
I think the easiest way to discuss the show is saga by saga, so I'm going to do that (using Kaizenshuu's saga list). I've also included a 5-star rating for each just for fun (I thought of going out of 7, but I can't handle that level of specificity
).
Son Goku Arc - *****
The first 13 episodes of Dragon Ball are fantastic. Goku is mischevious, stupid, and delightfully weird. Bulma is abrasive and headstrong, but doesn't feel like the one-dimensional annoyance machine she becomes later. I actually root for her a lot in this part of the show. It feels like every episode brings a new and interesting place, a new weird aspect of the world (capsules, flying clouds), a new friend (Yamcha, Oolong, Roshi...), and a new Dragon Ball to bring our cast closer to their goal. The 13th episode comes to a really satisfying close, with Oolong of all people providing an absurding resolution to the conflict with Pilaf. This saga is just FUN.
21st Tenkaichi Budokai Arc - ****
There are two things to love about this arc. The first is Krillin. He provides the perfect foil to Goku and is kind of our surrogate in the show. We'll never be quite as good or quite as pure, but we all want to try. The training under Roshi is just the perfect application of this spirit and Goku's, and over the course of it we kind of get to know the "peace-time" version of each of the characters. This to me will be a defining part of the series. We don't just spend time with the characters during battles, but also when their lives are just advancing.
The second thing to love is that the tournament gives each of our fighters a chance to shine, *and* lets us see them respectfully engage with each other. This culminates in the Goku/Roshi fight which is wonderfully motivated and sweet in the end. The enemies in this arc definitely feel like fodder, which is the main mark against it.
Red Ribbon Army Arc - *
The Red Ribbon arc feels like a bad preview of DBZ. It's almost exclusively about Goku's solo fights. Each villain is stretched into many episodes. The fights are phenomenally uninteresting as we are dealing with the most mundane of special abilities. One thing Dragon Ball really struggles with is giving characters abilities that make for interesting combat resolutions, but Red Ribbon really takes the cake.
The one redeeming part is the Mercenary Tao sub-arc. Korin's Tower is a great growth moment for Goku, and Korin is a wonderful teacher to spend time with. Tao himself is quirky in an appealing way, delaying combat in order to have clothes tailored and travelling via thrown pillar. Honestly, I would skip everything else.
Fortune Teller Baba Arc - **
Another tournament, but this time against a series of fodder. Some of the gags are funny (Krillin's method of helping Yamcha fight the invisible man) but for the lack of the friends engaging with eachother really weakens the schedule. The Gohan and Goku reunion is a little charming, as is the resolution to the fight of Goku's tail fighting off, but honestly I didn't need it. I preferred Gohan as a mystery.
Solo Training Arc - ***
While the scenarios are individually weak, the interstitials of Goku self-training and running through the wilderness of Dragon World really sell this arc. It manages to just slightly recapture the feel that this is a story about a boy with a joy for life just experiencing the world and learning from it.
The strange thing is that this arc was all filler!
22nd Tenkaichi Budokai Arc - *****
This is by far the best tournament in Dragon Ball. Tien and Chiaotzu are perfectly strange and when their abilities are finally revealed they are commesurate with that strangeness. Yamcha vs Tien displays the strength of the new competitor. Roshi vs Wolf-man demonstrates Roshi's wisdom, which so rarely gets a time to shine. Krillin vs Chiaotzu finally lets Krillin achieve a personal victory through his wiliness, and it feels earned. Tien vs Roshi. Goku vs Krillin! Goku vs Tien! It's all good.
However, the Goku vs Tien fight extends to 4+ episodes. A sign of things to come...
King Piccolo Arc - ***
We DBZ now. Outside of the brief and fun adventures of Goku and Yajirobe, this is a series of fights against the same enemy, in which everyone loses until Goku eventually gets enough new "power" to win. While this happened before with Korin tower, that felt earned, whereas this time Goku drinks some weird super powered magic water that inexplicably exists in some weird place and will certainly never be mentioned again. King Piccolo is an undeniably cool villain and his unique characteristics (sleeping with eyes open, creating eggs) kept me entertained, but nothing else works.
Heavenly Training Arc - ****
Short but sweet. Mr Popo is a phenomenal new strength (!!!) but he's not an enemy, and the ways he trains Goku are all fun and feel like real ways to grow his abilities. He *does* need to control his power better, he *does* need to learn to move deliberately, and he *does* need to better control his internal energy.
And it's also almost all filler! Apparently I like training filler.
23rd Tenkaichi Budokai Arc - ***
The worst tournament in Dragon Ball. Mostly just an excuse to slowly drip feed out Goku's new abilities, and rehash an incredibly long and boring fight against Piccolo. The highlights save it:
+ Kami (disguised) beating everyone
+ Chi Chi's reunion with Goku
+ Feet Kamehameha
+ Krillin vs Piccolo and his good nature
Wedding Dress Arc - **
An adventure! But most of the scenario makes no sense and the locations and people aren't fun. The only thing that saves it is seeing Goku and Chi Chi together. I never remembered Chi Chi being tough and fun, but in this arc she feels somewhat like a proto-Videl. It was nice to have a chance to have her be fun before she was totally relegated to the shrewish-homekeeper that Toriyama seems to think all woman end up as.
===============================
Anyway, overall I had a ton of fun, although the fights really dragged towards the end. I think the biggest takeaway for me is that Dragon Ball reminded me the franchise was originally all one manga. It doesn't feel nearly as unique from DBZ as a I remember it being. The "sudden shift" in tone is actually drawn out over many sagas and by the King Piccolo arc we are in the DBZ mold.
I think early Dragon Ball remains my favourite thing in the series. In a short period we get a great, timeless adventure, and a bunch of unique friends in a fantastic world. I've already moved on to the start of DBZ, and I don't recall that doing quite as much to expand the world/universe in charming ways.
Unfortunately, I think for a fighting story the fights in Dragon Ball are extremely weak. For the most part, new techniques feel more like just increases in "power" and less about novel or interesting tools used in cool ways. To breifly contrast with a similar show, I watched Naruto in my teens and I remember that being way more about different people exploiting the "utility" of their specific tool kit. Any time two characters matched up for the first time you could bet on interesting interactions. Really miss that in Dragon Ball.
So what does everyone else think? Is Dragon Ball something fans here hold close, or is it more like the weird prologue to DBZ? Interested to hear everyone else's reflections.
As of today, I've just finished Dragon Ball and am ready to start Z. But before I did that, I thought it would be fun to start a bit of discussion about Dragon Ball. I originally intended on watching sub, but after starting I realized the dub just felt more right with my memories so I went with that (Funimation).
In my memory, Dragon Ball was always my favourite of the three shows. Kid Goku was and continues to be my favourite of the protagonists. I also liked the search for the Dragon Balls (or other macguffins) and exposure to new places and vignettes. The show also introduces a revolving door of quirky and interesting characters, and people who are forgettable by Z are very charming here: Bulma, Oolong, Krillin and Yajirobe are all fun to spend time with in DB. I think these impressions held up, but in the re-watch I noticed for the first time how gradual the descent into Z-like combat and padding is.
I think the easiest way to discuss the show is saga by saga, so I'm going to do that (using Kaizenshuu's saga list). I've also included a 5-star rating for each just for fun (I thought of going out of 7, but I can't handle that level of specificity
).Son Goku Arc - *****
The first 13 episodes of Dragon Ball are fantastic. Goku is mischevious, stupid, and delightfully weird. Bulma is abrasive and headstrong, but doesn't feel like the one-dimensional annoyance machine she becomes later. I actually root for her a lot in this part of the show. It feels like every episode brings a new and interesting place, a new weird aspect of the world (capsules, flying clouds), a new friend (Yamcha, Oolong, Roshi...), and a new Dragon Ball to bring our cast closer to their goal. The 13th episode comes to a really satisfying close, with Oolong of all people providing an absurding resolution to the conflict with Pilaf. This saga is just FUN.
21st Tenkaichi Budokai Arc - ****
There are two things to love about this arc. The first is Krillin. He provides the perfect foil to Goku and is kind of our surrogate in the show. We'll never be quite as good or quite as pure, but we all want to try. The training under Roshi is just the perfect application of this spirit and Goku's, and over the course of it we kind of get to know the "peace-time" version of each of the characters. This to me will be a defining part of the series. We don't just spend time with the characters during battles, but also when their lives are just advancing.
The second thing to love is that the tournament gives each of our fighters a chance to shine, *and* lets us see them respectfully engage with each other. This culminates in the Goku/Roshi fight which is wonderfully motivated and sweet in the end. The enemies in this arc definitely feel like fodder, which is the main mark against it.
Red Ribbon Army Arc - *
The Red Ribbon arc feels like a bad preview of DBZ. It's almost exclusively about Goku's solo fights. Each villain is stretched into many episodes. The fights are phenomenally uninteresting as we are dealing with the most mundane of special abilities. One thing Dragon Ball really struggles with is giving characters abilities that make for interesting combat resolutions, but Red Ribbon really takes the cake.
The one redeeming part is the Mercenary Tao sub-arc. Korin's Tower is a great growth moment for Goku, and Korin is a wonderful teacher to spend time with. Tao himself is quirky in an appealing way, delaying combat in order to have clothes tailored and travelling via thrown pillar. Honestly, I would skip everything else.
Fortune Teller Baba Arc - **
Another tournament, but this time against a series of fodder. Some of the gags are funny (Krillin's method of helping Yamcha fight the invisible man) but for the lack of the friends engaging with eachother really weakens the schedule. The Gohan and Goku reunion is a little charming, as is the resolution to the fight of Goku's tail fighting off, but honestly I didn't need it. I preferred Gohan as a mystery.
Solo Training Arc - ***
While the scenarios are individually weak, the interstitials of Goku self-training and running through the wilderness of Dragon World really sell this arc. It manages to just slightly recapture the feel that this is a story about a boy with a joy for life just experiencing the world and learning from it.
The strange thing is that this arc was all filler!
22nd Tenkaichi Budokai Arc - *****
This is by far the best tournament in Dragon Ball. Tien and Chiaotzu are perfectly strange and when their abilities are finally revealed they are commesurate with that strangeness. Yamcha vs Tien displays the strength of the new competitor. Roshi vs Wolf-man demonstrates Roshi's wisdom, which so rarely gets a time to shine. Krillin vs Chiaotzu finally lets Krillin achieve a personal victory through his wiliness, and it feels earned. Tien vs Roshi. Goku vs Krillin! Goku vs Tien! It's all good.
However, the Goku vs Tien fight extends to 4+ episodes. A sign of things to come...
King Piccolo Arc - ***
We DBZ now. Outside of the brief and fun adventures of Goku and Yajirobe, this is a series of fights against the same enemy, in which everyone loses until Goku eventually gets enough new "power" to win. While this happened before with Korin tower, that felt earned, whereas this time Goku drinks some weird super powered magic water that inexplicably exists in some weird place and will certainly never be mentioned again. King Piccolo is an undeniably cool villain and his unique characteristics (sleeping with eyes open, creating eggs) kept me entertained, but nothing else works.
Heavenly Training Arc - ****
Short but sweet. Mr Popo is a phenomenal new strength (!!!) but he's not an enemy, and the ways he trains Goku are all fun and feel like real ways to grow his abilities. He *does* need to control his power better, he *does* need to learn to move deliberately, and he *does* need to better control his internal energy.
And it's also almost all filler! Apparently I like training filler.
23rd Tenkaichi Budokai Arc - ***
The worst tournament in Dragon Ball. Mostly just an excuse to slowly drip feed out Goku's new abilities, and rehash an incredibly long and boring fight against Piccolo. The highlights save it:
+ Kami (disguised) beating everyone
+ Chi Chi's reunion with Goku
+ Feet Kamehameha
+ Krillin vs Piccolo and his good nature
Wedding Dress Arc - **
An adventure! But most of the scenario makes no sense and the locations and people aren't fun. The only thing that saves it is seeing Goku and Chi Chi together. I never remembered Chi Chi being tough and fun, but in this arc she feels somewhat like a proto-Videl. It was nice to have a chance to have her be fun before she was totally relegated to the shrewish-homekeeper that Toriyama seems to think all woman end up as.
===============================
Anyway, overall I had a ton of fun, although the fights really dragged towards the end. I think the biggest takeaway for me is that Dragon Ball reminded me the franchise was originally all one manga. It doesn't feel nearly as unique from DBZ as a I remember it being. The "sudden shift" in tone is actually drawn out over many sagas and by the King Piccolo arc we are in the DBZ mold.
I think early Dragon Ball remains my favourite thing in the series. In a short period we get a great, timeless adventure, and a bunch of unique friends in a fantastic world. I've already moved on to the start of DBZ, and I don't recall that doing quite as much to expand the world/universe in charming ways.
Unfortunately, I think for a fighting story the fights in Dragon Ball are extremely weak. For the most part, new techniques feel more like just increases in "power" and less about novel or interesting tools used in cool ways. To breifly contrast with a similar show, I watched Naruto in my teens and I remember that being way more about different people exploiting the "utility" of their specific tool kit. Any time two characters matched up for the first time you could bet on interesting interactions. Really miss that in Dragon Ball.
So what does everyone else think? Is Dragon Ball something fans here hold close, or is it more like the weird prologue to DBZ? Interested to hear everyone else's reflections.
