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"seems that the [new] PS5 is becoming like the Xbox... in a very bad way" Digital Foundry, or basically how the console are turning into services
Physiognomonics
Member
Not for Sony and Microsoft who are also releasing their games on PC. Only Nintendo has a walled garden now.
I don't understand crying about this stuff.
Of course PS5 is "service." It has soldered SSD chips on the board. Not being able to verify Blu-ray mechanic with PS servers in 20 years is not really a concern, because I won't expect my PS5 to work in 20 years.
And if Sony won't fuckup backwards compatibility, I literally don't care because I will be able to play PS5 games on PS6.
Of course PS5 is "service." It has soldered SSD chips on the board. Not being able to verify Blu-ray mechanic with PS servers in 20 years is not really a concern, because I won't expect my PS5 to work in 20 years.
And if Sony won't fuckup backwards compatibility, I literally don't care because I will be able to play PS5 games on PS6.
Flutta
Banned
Yup it’s a fucking weird obsession to have. What do they gain by it? I don’t understand. It’s not a brand that you are fanboying for or a mouth piece like Phil Spencer you are worshiping…..
If someone says it’s because they care about the environment, they are lying through their teeth
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MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
And that's why I switched to PC mid last generation and never looked back.
Tams
Member
It's called valuing your products.
Why should a good game be worth less? The same time and effort was put in. The same resources. The same risks.
Not so great Nintendo games and ones that are so old to no longer be as good as they once were, do sell for lower prices.
Nintendo seem to be one of the only ones in any industry who care about the value of their IP. Even Disney don't give a shit anymore.
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MoreJRPG
Suffers from extreme PDS
This is why PC will always and forever be king of game preservation. Your digital library is safe and going no where. With GOG you’re able to download your executables and have them at your finger tips forever. Online multiplayer is free. Cloud saves are free. There are so many storefronts that you’re not held hostage in a walled garden paying MSRP for games two to three years after launch. What’s crazy to me is you now can own even PlayStation first party titles through GOG on PC, yet if you have the console all you have is a disc with a license on it.
Console gaming is looking more and more like a facade of ownership with each passing year.
Console gaming is looking more and more like a facade of ownership with each passing year.
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SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Every console is a walled garden.
ReBurn
Gold Member
Which law says an online check is required? I really don't care about the check itself, I just want to know what it's really for.
I've seen articles claiming that it's section 1201 of the DMCA, but that doesn't say anything about instituting an online check-in requirement to prevent circumventing copy protection. It outlines what persons are and are not allowed to do to circumvent encryption and the relationship to copyright law and fair use. The only language related to devices there is for analog recording devices like VCR's and preventing import, sale of use of devices without VHS copy protection in order to break encryption. If that's how Sony is implementing legally required DRM then why that way? I didn't have to connect my 4K blu ray player to the internet before I could play discs on it so it seems weird to me that it would be a legal requirement for a PS5.
If it's a security measure to prevent hacking the console via the connector then that makes more sense to me. I could see someone dissecting a drive and trying to figure out how to emulate it in software to enable the ability to play ripped games or otherwise exploit the system. Not storing algorithms, certs or keys for enabling drive operation on every PS5 console could make reverse engineering it more difficult.
Hopefully Sony clarifies the reasons. At the end of the day it is what it is. I'm just really curious.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
I havent followed disc gaming since the last time I bought a disc was I think Witcher 3.
But regarding being able to play games offline vanilla with a disc, is there any trending lately that requires even a disc gamer to connect to the net for mandatory patch/updates or content left out? I know it's happened (that Crash game a few years ago I think required a connection to play all levels), but jus wondering if it's getting to be more and more.
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Sleepwalker
Member
Some do, mostly because they wont put the full game on disc/cart. But its s minority despite what GAF would want you to believe.
Lucifers Beard
Member
Yep, I have all the major platforms but it's PC and Steam Deck moving forward. If my kids want consoles in the future, sure, but I'm done with that shit.
There is always a way of doing something when it comes to PC, store fronts close or access to content is lost, there are always other ways of getting it.
Mibu no ookami
Member
It's been long rumored that Naughty Dog wants to do a sci-fi game.
Could Naughty Dog + Star Trek + Sony's funding and marketing make a hit Star Trek game to the extent we've never seen before? Absolutely.
Do you take some easy inspiration from Mass Effect?
But you'd probably need to release it on PC to really get the numbers you really want.
Could Naughty Dog + Star Trek + Sony's funding and marketing make a hit Star Trek game to the extent we've never seen before? Absolutely.
Do you take some easy inspiration from Mass Effect?
But you'd probably need to release it on PC to really get the numbers you really want.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
About 85% are fully playable with disc version.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Just wait until the PS6 and Next Xbox. Anyone who thinks a console is releasing with an optical drive in 2027/2028 is living in a dream world.
The PS6 will or will come with an accessory for us to play our game physically.
Mr Reasonable
Completely Unreasonable
Link me up to that MW3 deal, please.
LRKD
Member
The people defending/ignoring this are the same type of people who defended or ignored horse armor 17 years ago saying it wasn't a big deal. And look at us now, skins cost more then entire games do.
Hard to say what (AAA) gaming will look like 17 years from now but if we keep giving up consumer rights left and right it likely will be we own nothing and everything is a service. If you buy a console it should be fully functional offline at all times. If they need to activate it, activate it in the factory before it even ships
Hard to say what (AAA) gaming will look like 17 years from now but if we keep giving up consumer rights left and right it likely will be we own nothing and everything is a service. If you buy a console it should be fully functional offline at all times. If they need to activate it, activate it in the factory before it even ships
SteadyEvo
Member
I needed a good laughthis again ? ins't the online a one time thing just to validate the hardware ?
imagine been mad after the instalation of a new GPU and u need to be online in order to update the drivers.
"Hey i just got a new RTX4090 but is running like shit"
" U need to go online to update the drivers"
Thank you
squarealex
Member
No needed key from Sony, just browse Ebay or Vinted, and you can see people selling Horizon FW or GOW:R from bundle
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
It's got nothing to do with the DMCA, and anyone who tells you otherwise is lying. That document was written in 1998 - there's no way they had any notion of online activations for things like this, nor is there anything in there that could be construed to be relevant here.
Source: Self. I'm a lawyer and I know a lot about copyright law.
StealthGoblin
Banned
DMCA
The company has to go to lengths of ensure that copyrighted material cannot be played illegally on the device using unauthorised devices such as disc drives. If Sony didn't have this and didn't make the drive pair to the console on first connection, they would be potentially allowing drives or addons connect to the device that would run copyrighted material illegally.
SenkiDala
Member
It is a bluray player it plays movies, it has to follow this article that's just the law.
StereoVsn
Member
Yes, to play. But it’s not required to process stored data on it. Since game media fully installs on internal HD there is no playback.
You migrated to steam/PC, a digital only download service because a disc drive needs internet when bought? Surejan
StereoVsn
Member
For most non Denuvo games and GoG, BC is basically guaranteed. You can play PC games from 40 years ago.
BC on PC is great but it's not really related to the problem here. People are complaining about the disc drive needing to use Internet on install yet digital games always need that with every game. What have they avoided?
IFireflyl
Gold Member
I don't know why some people feel the need to talk out of their ass instead of just staying out of a conversation that they know nothing about. If firearm manufacturers are not liable for harm caused by firearms, why on Earth would you think that CD/DVD/Blu-ray player manufacturers would be liable for copyrighted content illegally being played on them?
StereoVsn
Member
PS5 media isn’t really cracked. You can’t rip your legally purchased PS5 games at least easily.
DRM check in BluRay will make repair tough down the road when servers are offline. It’s also annoying and shouldn’t be needing for gaming side of things. Blu-ray playback could have been handled through player activation.
StealthGoblin
Banned
I don't know why some people feel the need to talk out of their ass instead of just staying out of a conversation that they know nothing about. If firearm manufacturers are not liable for harm caused by firearms, why on Earth would you think that CD/DVD/Blu-ray player manufacturers would be liable for copyrighted content illegally being played on them?
When you buy a firearm you agree to use it responsibly and take responsibility for the maintainance and use of the firearm.
Attaching a chipped or bent drive to a console and infringing copyright doesn't carry that same responsibility so that falls on the manufacturers of the drives and the consoles.
It must also be said that Sony are an entertainment conglomerate who have a vested interest in maintaining that balance.
In any case this whole thing is a massive nothing burger. People need to calm the hell down. If you want a disc drive so much - buy the disc edition!
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fart town usa
Gold Member
I get the concerns but this seems like such a non-issue. Buy the one with a disc drive, problem solved.
Like everyone says, why are you buying a digital-only console if you don't have access to the internet?
My biggest concern for all digital consoles is not having access to physical movies. Much more concerned with that than I am physical games. I buy maybe 1 physical game a year (RE).
Edit- I didn't realize the disc model also requires a one-time registration. That's lame and I stand corrected.
Like everyone says, why are you buying a digital-only console if you don't have access to the internet?
My biggest concern for all digital consoles is not having access to physical movies. Much more concerned with that than I am physical games. I buy maybe 1 physical game a year (RE).
Edit- I didn't realize the disc model also requires a one-time registration. That's lame and I stand corrected.
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The annoying thing is that even the one with the disc drive requires a one time check online on setup.
Impotaku
Member
It's ok there's 2 other consoles for poor people so there's something for everyone.
KiteGr
Member
Nah...
It's just... If they are forcing me so hard to go digital, then I'll do it! Just not on their store.
DirtyBast8rd
Member
Did the same. Sold some of my Xbox and ps4 games and bought them back (or got them free) on pc. No more waiting for a 60 fps patch or a graphics update. I have so many games I want to replay now.
Tams
Member
I mean, Blu-ray itself has been and still is very restrictive in terms of DRM. You can either pay out of the arse for something like Nero or PowerDVD, get some grey area software from a Chinese company (if I recall correctly, they might have won a case in the US for what they do) to strip the DRM and keep the format, or use Handbrake but need to convert it into another format, thus usually losing several features.
Comparatively, a PlayStation from the onwards has been the easiest and even cheapest way to even just play Blu-rays.
So yeah, what seems like a one-off online check for only digital devices that are used with separately sold drives (and I assume disc versions used with a different drive) is really nothing in comparison.
RickMasters
Member
I find myself agreeing. I have a pretty external ASUS DVD drive mostly for burning files….. in actuality… I send work related files via email, and never actually use the drive. Same goes for my series X and Xbox one X….. the drives never have seen use. Come to think of it…. My X360 drive didn’t see much use in the latter part of its life either.
It’s only a vocal minority of Console gamers who use disc drives….. but is there enough of them to make adding mandatory disc drives to the next gen of consoles? …… I don’t think so anymore…..
RickMasters
Member
I would already own a Nintendo console if Their backwards compatibly set up was solid. And Nintendo have all the good stuff for BC since the wii….. they had PAC engine games alongside nes, snes, master system and mega drive games…. But you could carry none of it over to wiiu…. You carry none of it over to switch….. that is the single reason I stopped buying Nintendo consoles…. They don’t encourage the building of fame libraries. We live in an age where it’s possible. If they can get BC right with switch 2. I’ll be there day one….. I’ll take super Mario 2, 3 NES Rygar and faxand over everything that out right now. But Nintendo act like they don’t want money.
Tams
Member
That's not the main reason for the disc drive in the PlayStation, as hasn't really been since the PS4. And even then, since the PS2, playing films/winning the film disc format war has been part of the reason for PlayStations having a disc drive.
At this point, it's more that they might as well offer disc releases of games as the console has a disc drive and discs that are good enough to ship games.
fart town usa
Gold Member
That's lame. Didn't know that until you mentioned it.
RickMasters
Member
I understand that way of thinking in 2005. But discs are as dead as the dodo. Blue ray will be the last disc based format and that’s been obvious for some time. What purpose do they serve nowadays other than a specific type of consumer that is becoming ever more niche? We even have games coming in two DVDs which is a step back for sure. I’d be pretty suprised is pS5 pro and PS6 comes with disc drives. I think MS are already ok with the idea, for the next go round.
Tams
Member
You're not looking at it from a practical standpoint, and from a position of hindsight.
Nintendo have had fantastic backwards compatibility given that for much of their (and gaming's) existence, physical media has been the main form of getting games out. And given the infancy of computer gaming, and computers in general, the technology has changed a lot and often.
For Nintendo
Gameboy --> GBA
GBA --> DS Lite (and also playable on GameCube)
DS (phat) --> New 3DS
GameCube --> Wii (sort of Wii U, but the GameCube wasn't a success so they didn't bother making it workable)
The DS line had run its course by the time of the Switch (13 years) and after the Wii U, Nintendo were looking for a fresh start. Other than also being ARM, the Switch was a complete change in design.
So we'll have to see with the Switch's successor, but there's nothing in Nintendo's history to say that chances of backwards compatibility with the Switch will be low.
Tams
Member
Bruh, just buy the digital version then and shut up.
Why do you want to rain on other people's parade when them getting what they'd like affects you in absolutely no way?
ReBurn
Gold Member
That's what I was thinking. Everything I read in the DMCA sections that articles I found are quoting says that the responsibility is on person using media to not break digital encryption, not for companies to go to extraordinary lengths to prevent illegally cracked content from being played. I have an LG UHD player that has never been connected to the internet and it has played every disc I put in it, no one-time checkin required. The live content crap doesn't work but I don't use it, anyway.I don't know why some people feel the need to talk out of their ass instead of just staying out of a conversation that they know nothing about. If firearm manufacturers are not liable for harm caused by firearms, why on Earth would you think that CD/DVD/Blu-ray player manufacturers would be liable for copyrighted content illegally being played on them?
This has to be part of a security measure Sony has implemented for their own purposes. There's no "online check-in required" laws that I know of, but maybe there's a new one I haven't read about.
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
its called a sale and it's been happening since the beginning of capitalism even for the absolute best of products. You chop prices to increase purchases. Same work went in. Same resources. same risks. Just a lower price. Ironically Nintendo seemed to have a better grip of this back in the Wii days with Nintendo Selects and console revisions/sales that cost less.
Also 90% of the time "respecting your IP" means trampling on the people who want to have a little fun with it so cut out that BS.