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[VGEsoterica]

I love arcade racing games, I love Sega games and I love the look and overall vibe of the Sega Model 3 arcade board...and while I might not be a good enough driver to be a rally racer...it sure is fun to pretend! Which is why I just straight up LOVE Sega Rally 2 and feel its as good in 2022 as it was when it released in the 90s

It's wild to think that Sega Rally 2 was released in 1998 by AM Annex, which wasn't even a top tier Sega in house development team. Almost 25 years later and the game still looks absolutely stunning and the performance and physics model to the cars is still quite possibly the best code ever put to a virtual vehicle in a video game.

The Dreamcast version...was good. Flawed but good. Shows just why embedded Windows CE was not a great idea for a game console...but it did get Microsoft started in the console space so if nothing else it lead to Xbox...so that's a fun time.

But I bet 95% plus of people on GAF have played Sega Rally 2 at least once...which makes me wonder? Who here HASN'T played it? Also....if you don't think this is one of the best racing games of all time...what do you think is?



check out "Supermodel emulator" if you haven't either. It's magic amongst emulation

 

[SkylineRKR]

SR2 DC is one of the biggest disappointments in my gaming life. I played SR2 in the arcade for months, or years as its cabinets would never cease to exist here. DC should've been able to run a close to arcade perfect port, but Sega went for a cheap Windows port. I prefer to play it on Supermodel3 ofcourse. Though the 10 year championship isn't there.

SR2 was generally deemed worse than SR1 because of its handling I think. But I like it more, also because I played it in the Arcade much more. I always have issues with the Snow stage. But I can beat the game.

The best racing game, in my opinion, is ofcourse Daytona 2. I also play that game still.

 

[VGEsoterica]

SR2 DC is one of the biggest disappointments in my gaming life. I played SR2 in the arcade for months, or years as its cabinets would never cease to exist here. DC should've been able to run a close to arcade perfect port, but Sega went for a cheap Windows port. I prefer to play it on Supermodel3 ofcourse. Though the 10 year championship isn't there.

SR2 was generally deemed worse than SR1 because of its handling I think. But I like it more, also because I played it in the Arcade much more. I always have issues with the Snow stage. But I can beat the game.

The best racing game, in my opinion, is ofcourse Daytona 2. I also play that game still.

Yeah Sega seemed to go cheap and quick on the port and it shows

 

[dave_d]

Yeah Sega seemed to go cheap and quick on the port and it shows

I thought the deal with that port is they wanted network support and for some stupid reason only Win CE had support for the modem. (Kind of remembered there was some fiasco about no network support early on except for CE)

 

[64bitmodels]

if only the talent who made all the 90s sega racers were still around. Sega doesn't even make that stuff anymore besides that Daytona 3 in 2017.... which was horrible

 

[nkarafo]

The last game that WOWed me in the arcades.... Running on the last custom state-of-the-art hardware, before Sega (and others at the same time) cheapen out for consumer level hardware, killing the arcades in the process.

It's nice that the state of the art in videogames is accessible in our homes but i do miss having a place to see a glimpse of the future generations of video game tech/graphics. I guess diminishing returns would equalize arcades and home systems anyway at the end.

 

[RAIDEN1]

This reminds me of the thread what if Sega were still around as hardware players today?

 

[TintoConCasera]

Great racing game, I still have my PC copy around. Also, kino soundtrack.

 

[Fat Frog]

I love arcade racing games, I love Sega games and I love the look and overall vibe of the Sega Model 3 arcade board...and while I might not be a good enough driver to be a rally racer...it sure is fun to pretend! Which is why I just straight up LOVE Sega Rally 2 and feel its as good in 2022 as it was when it released in the 90s

It's wild to think that Sega Rally 2 was released in 1998 by AM Annex, which wasn't even a top tier Sega in house development team. Almost 25 years later and the game still looks absolutely stunning and the performance and physics model to the cars is still quite possibly the best code ever put to a virtual vehicle in a video game.

The Dreamcast version...was good. Flawed but good. Shows just why embedded Windows CE was not a great idea for a game console...but it did get Microsoft started in the console space so if nothing else it lead to Xbox...so that's a fun time.

But I bet 95% plus of people on GAF have played Sega Rally 2 at least once...which makes me wonder? Who here HASN'T played it? Also....if you don't think this is one of the best racing games of all time...what do you think is?



check out "Supermodel emulator" if you haven't either. It's magic amongst emulation

Well, i don't know. I only played the so so Dreamcast port.
Maybe it's time for a Collection (without car licences)to finally enjoy the true Sega Rally experience. Daytona 2, Scud Race are still my favorite Sega racers but i quite enjoyed Sega Rally 3 and 95 arcade (thanks Mister Sasaki Kenji from Namco !)

 

[VGEsoterica]

if only the talent who made all the 90s sega racers were still around. Sega doesn't even make that stuff anymore besides that Daytona 3 in 2017.... which was horrible

They’ve made other games since then in the arcade racing genre. Some were even good

 

[Fat Frog]

if only the talent who made all the 90s sega racers were still around. Sega doesn't even make that stuff anymore besides that Daytona 3 in 2017.... which was horrible

Daytona 2/Outrun 2 > Makoto Osaki > still at Sega.
Sega Rally 95/Sega Rally 2 > Kenji Sasaki > Not at Sega anymore but still develop racers for Sega like Sega World Drivers.

Manx TT > Hiroshi Ando > Working on recent Initial D games

 

[Kruza]

Hello! I am an unabashed and proud former Sega Rally 2 junkie!

I used to play Sega Rally 2 a whole lot in the arcades with the deluxe rolling cabinet with seat, and its Dreamcast port was my most played game by far on this system! The Dreamcast port of SR2 had major framerate issues on occasion, but I thought it was a really good port overall of the arcade version.

Time Attack mode was my addiction! Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the Dreamcast port of Sega Rally 2 was the first console video game to allow players to post/upload their achieved fastest stage times or high scores onto the official website designed for said video game (SR2 in this case) for the world to see. And I took full advantage of this feature!

It's now common for racing games and games from a few other genres -- FPS's as an example -- to have websites dedicated for a specific video game that regularly post updates of fastest stage times and high scores and stuff. But let's not forget the game that started it all!

 

[64bitmodels]

Sega Rally 95/Sega Rally 2 > Kenji Sasaki > Not at Sega anymore but still develop racers for Sega like Sega World Drivers.

looked it up and wow, that game actually looks really good. it does look like a modern iteration of the late 90s sega racers

 

[UnNamed]

I have a doubt.

I remember there was a 30fps mode unlockable by a cheat code. Now I see there is a "unstable" 60fps mode also via cheat code. But I remember the game was already at unstable 60fps, also the 60fps mode has less object on screen. I've never seen this before.

Maybe it's because I had the japanese version and the PAL and NTSC where just 30fps?

 

[PanzerCute]

Oh man, I absolutely adore this franchise.

I played an absurd amount of hours of the first one on the Saturn as a kid. I could play the Celica on Mountains for hours, just trying to beat my fastest lap. Gameplay was such perfection, and everything felt so fluid. Pure arcade thrill at home.

When the Dreamcast launched, Sega Rally 2 blew my mind. Even with the technical issues, it was such a great game. And so much content compared to the first one! I will never forget what I felt during the night we received the console with Sonic and Sega rally 2 with my brother : playing SR2 felt like something majestic compared to other racing games on the market.

I even loved Sega Rally Revo on ps360. Bought it for both console and spent hours and hours unlocking all the content. This game was really good and its a shame it bombed that hard. The way the tracks would deform was a great inovation and a great fit for the franchise.

And last was Sega Rally Arcade Online, that I would describe as a Sega Rally 1 made with Sega Rally Revo tech. Minimal content but online leaderboards ? Count me in!
That was sadly the last Sega Rally experience, and to complete my full Sega Rally circle, I managed after hours and hours of grinding to have the 4th best time worldwide on... moutains!

I would love to have a new game tbh, but it will never happen sadly.

Thanks for your post, that Nostalgia kick was great

 

[Miles708]

I have a doubt.

I remember there was a 30fps mode unlockable by a cheat code. Now I see there is a "unstable" 60fps mode also via cheat code. But I remember the game was already at unstable 60fps, also the 60fps mode has less object on screen. I've never seen this before.

Maybe it's because I had the japanese version and the PAL and NTSC where just 30fps?

There are both 30 and 60 fps cheat codes, but if i remember correctly the latter just lowers the detail level with no definite improvement.

The PAL version also ran at 50hz i think, much like Virtua Fighter 3, which added insult to injury.

 

[UnNamed]

Ok, now I finally understand:

Japanese version, default mode runs at 60fps uncapped, the game reaches 60fps like 2/3 times for some second during the race. Except for the Monaco track, where the game reaches 60fps half of the time.
US version, default mode runs at 30fps capped.
Jap version has 30fps cheat code, both have 60fps mode with less details but the game reaches 60fps for more time.

 

[Guileless]

Sega Rally 2 is art.

 

[VGEsoterica]

Sega Rally 2 is art.

The only thing you could do to improve it is add more tracks

 

[VGEsoterica]

Ok, now I finally understand:

Japanese version, default mode runs at 60fps uncapped, the game reaches 60fps like 2/3 times for some second during the race. Except for the Monaco track, where the game reaches 60fps half of the time.
US version, default mode runs at 30fps capped.
Jap version has 30fps cheat code, both have 60fps mode with less details but the game reaches 60fps for more time.

it is a very weird delineation between versions

 

[Fat Frog]

looked it up and wow, that game actually looks really good. it does look like a modern iteration of the late 90s sega racers

I guess it's like a modern iteration of Sega Touring Car (another Sasaki game). I would prefere a new Scud Race or Daytona but, hey, it's better than nothing. Nonetheless, it seems quite complicated to greenlight new arcade racers nowadays: Where are Namco's Ridge Racer(s) ?

 

[Alexios]

Edit: just watched some of the video. Idk why you keep repeating Dreamcast could never do Model 3 justice or keep up with it or whatever and how you came to understand this. It kept up just fine in several games, from Virtua Fighter 3tb and Sega Bass Fishing for step 1.0 to Fighting Vipers 2, Virtua Striker 2 and Virtual On 2 for the significantly upgraded step 2.0 (though VS2's first version was on step 1.5) and some of its own games and/or excellent Naomi ports that could easily rival anything on Model 3 like Dead or Alive 2, F355 Challenge and a couple Fishing sequels (of course that's why VS2 and VO2 are so good too as they were carefully, properly ported for Naomi to replace the expensive, aging Model 3 hardware). Out of all these then, only Sega Rally 2 has significant downgrades while VF3tb and Fighting Vipers 2 have relatively minor changes. Maybe just focus on what you play and how it is which is subjectively true enough rather than pass random thoughts as fact with stuff like this or in other videos claiming Saturn emulation isn't great (it is) while proclaiming Jaguar emulation great (it wasn't before BugPEMu which wasn't out at the time). Original post:

Ok, now I finally understand:

Japanese version, default mode runs at 60fps uncapped, the game reaches 60fps like 2/3 times for some second during the race. Except for the Monaco track, where the game reaches 60fps half of the time.
US version, default mode runs at 30fps capped.
Jap version has 30fps cheat code, both have 60fps mode with less details but the game reaches 60fps for more time.

Not really true, no version is capped to 30 by default. The Japanese version for whatever reason (I dunno if it has some lesser visuals or something not easy to notice was improved elsewhere but it's hard to imagine the first version is more optimized than the rest) seems able to jump to 60 fps much more often by default (so it's more obviously inconsistent) and hold it more with the 60fps cheat too (but still far from consistently enough to make that a worthwhile option) but the US version does by default too, the jumps to and from 60 fps are evident since the attract intro and in gameplay.


All Dreamcast versions should be played with the 30fps cap code instead for the optimal consistency. The Japanese version also has two exclusive cars while missing two others, some different car skins and lets you select the different time of day/weather conditions of tracks from the 10 Year Championship in the Time Attack mode. It's weird the later regional versions removed that. Mind that for emulation with Flycast in RetroArch (dunno about stand alone) it's one of the only games to need forced texture filtering in the settings at this time, otherwise it won't apply properly.

Even with the technical problems it's a fun port adding a ton of content compared to the arcade version and to the Saturn port of the original Sega Rally which added much less. It's only disappointing cos Dreamcast could do better and match or exceed Model 3 as proven by the ports of Virtual On 2 and Virtua Striker 2 among others. It was developed in tandem with the hardware not being final yet so something had to give to make it a launch title (and it still got delayed a bit) sadly. Maybe Scud Race (Plus) being a Model 3 step 1.5 game should have been the launch port, with Sega Rally 2 coming later as its step 2.0 board was a big upgrade and so needed a lot of effort like Virtual On 2 was afforded (invested so they could replace Model 3 with the cheap Naomi for it and VS2).

 

[VGEsoterica]

Not really true, no version is capped to 30 by default. The Japanese version for whatever reason (I dunno if it has some lesser visuals or something not easy to notice was improved elsewhere but it's hard to imagine the first version is more optimized than the rest) seems able to jump to 60 fps much more often by default (making it more obviously inconsistent) and hold it more with the 60fps cheat too (but still far from consistently enough to make that a worthwhile option) but the US version does by default too, the jumps to and from 60 fps are evident since the attract intro and in any gameplay.


All Dreamcast versions should be played with the 30fps cap code instead for the optimal consistency. The Japanese version also has two exclusive cars while missing two others, some different car skins and lets you select the different time of day/weather conditions of tracks from the 10 Year Championship in the Time Attack mode. It's weird the later regional versions removed that.

For emulation with Flycast in RetroArch (dunno about stand alone) it's one of the only games to need forced texture filtering in the settings at this time, otherwise it won't apply and they'll look like pixel art.

Even with the technical problems it's a fun port adding a ton of content compared to the arcade version and to the Saturn port of the original Sega Rally which added much less. It's only disappointing cos Dreamcast could do better and match or exceed Model 3 as proven by the ports of Virtual On 2 and Virtua Striker 2 among other games. Still, it was developed in tandem with the hardware not being final yet so something had to give to make it a launch title (and it still got delayed a bit) sadly. Maybe Scud Race (Plus) being a Model 3 step 1.5 game should have been the launch port, with Sega Rally 2 coming later as its step 2.0 board was a pretty big upgrade and so needed a lot of effort like Virtual On 2 was afforded.

clearly something was rushed considering all the oddities with the Dreamcast version, even if it is fun.

 

[diffusionx]

I remember playing SR2 DC when it came out and the shitty frame rate was so obvious immediately. SR1 on Saturn ran at 30fps consistently IIRC and I enjoyed playing that a lot more than SR2 DC. If avoiding shitty Windows CE was not an option, they should have capped it, yea.

 

[UnNamed]

Not really true, no version is capped to 30 by default.

During the normal gameplay with no cheat, US version don't go over 30fps, as you can see from the video. In the Monaco track, which is less taxing, the JP version reach 60fps at least in the straight roads, US version is still capped at 30 there, with some spike during the last curves which are probably just a bug caused by the cap.

Anyway, this isn't the first time I was deceived by many versions of the same game.
For example, for years I thought Sega Touring Car was badly optimized, a complete shit on Saturn. Then, one day, I found only the PAL version is shit while the NTSC versions are good and playable.

Another episode, I had a game on C64 on a pirate cassette called SIX VS SIX, which was a pirated Microprose Soccer. It took me years to realize my version was a cut and sew port with only the US teams and the "six vs six" mode.

 

[Business]

I remember when it released how insane it looked. The window transparencies and the (now obviously fake) reflections were out of this world.

For some reason I find the original Sega Rally more aestethically pleasing tho.

 

[Alexios]

During the normal gameplay with no cheat, US version don't go over 30fps, as you can see from the video.

It does, as you can see from the video, just less than the Jp version. Big example at 4:43 but there other cases in most tracks and also tons of small jitters throughout as it probably can and tries to go over 30 but not reach 60 as much as the Jp version so the vsync instantly shoves it back to 30 (vsync is the reason there are few inbetween cases in any version, it's either 60 or 30 hence the abrupt, obvious jumps). It varies as no race is 100% identical by your performance, camera etc., if you wanna deal with it instead of input the 30fps cap code, fine.

Pal being crappier was a known common thing up to the Dreamcast days sadly, largely fixed during that gen thankfully with games finally being the proper gameplay speed even if at 50Hz, if not also offering Pal 60 on top.

STCC like most games of its day is better in US/Jp but I liked it Pal too, same as any good game that was still inferior in Pal. And yeah it's pretty dodgy technically in all versions, uneven and low framerates etc. and for some reason some of the worst polygon warping on the Saturn making the road look awful up close, especially in the otherwise preferable bumper cam. But yes, a small improvement in dodgy tech makes a difference. It does in good tech too, Tekken 3 on PS feels considerably faster in US/Jp vs the Pal copy, a friend imported it back in the day and the difference wowed everyone and had us relearning all our combo and juggle timing to compete as before. Of course other games had differences beyond the Hz due to the different/extra dev time or whatever afforded other changes or fixes or improvements in content or performance or controls or difficulty, some times based on the regional expectations, not just the common lazy Hz Pal conversions which were the norm. Some times Europe even got theoretically better stuff like Wipeout 3 Special Edition, though one may easily prefer the higher Hz versions of course content be damned. Occasionally games released Pal skipping US like Formula Karts Special Edition or Terracon, though that was more rare than the opposite (and of course Japan got most as the industry was more Asia based at the time).

There are also weird cases like Contra being Probotector in Europe, I guess it was a form of censorship as robots are less realistic than humans or something, kind of like Germany got those weird modded FPS games that turned humans to robots later on. I enjoyed my Game Boy Probotector anyway (no Hz based issues on Pal handhelds like that, yay!) and I'm not sure which I prefer now that I'm aware of the difference, the robots are pretty cool compared to the Rambo clones.

 

[Celcius]

I've still never played this but would like to some day

 

[VGEsoterica]

I've still never played this but would like to some day

Def play it

 

[SpiceRacz]

I have vague memories of playing it on a burned disc a few years after the Dreamcast was cancelled. I remember not being impressed or hooked on it the way I was with Sega Rally on Saturn.

 

[Team Andromeda]

SR2 DC is one of the biggest disappointments in my gaming life. I played SR2 in the arcade for months, or years as its cabinets would never cease to exist here. DC should've been able to run a close to arcade perfect port, but Sega went for a cheap Windows port. I prefer to play it on Supermodel3 ofcourse. Though the 10 year championship isn't there.

SR2 was generally deemed worse than SR1 because of its handling I think. But I like it more, also because I played it in the Arcade much more. I always have issues with the Snow stage. But I can beat the game.

The best racing game, in my opinion, is ofcourse Daytona 2. I also play that game still.

I really don't think that's being entirely fair. I don't think it was a cheap port at all and I seem to remember an interview with Smilebit saying the main reasons they went for Win CE was not only to help with the easy of porting the PC version (which I think was the lead platform at one time) but also because Win CE supported the use of the internet functions, which SEGA own tools did not at that time.

I think the main issue was it was simply rushed out, a lot like Daytona USA on the Saturn. I think the game is amazing, with some of the best course designs ever. It's just a shame it wasn't a showcase of the DC like VO 2 was. A near perfect port of a Model 3 game and a true showcase for the online side of things with online rankings able to upload/download replays and of course head to head

 

[Team Andromeda]

During the normal gameplay with no cheat, US version don't go over 30fps, as you can see from the video. In the Monaco track, which is less taxing, the JP version reach 60fps at least in the straight roads, US version is still capped at 30 there, with some spike during the last curves which are probably just a bug caused by the cap.

Anyway, this isn't the first time I was deceived by many versions of the same game.
For example, for years I thought Sega Touring Car was badly optimized, a complete shit on Saturn. Then, one day, I found only the PAL version is shit while the NTSC versions are good and playable.

Another episode, I had a game on C64 on a pirate cassette called SIX VS SIX, which was a pirated Microprose Soccer. It took me years to realize my version was a cut and sew port with only the US teams and the "six vs six" mode.

That's not quite correct and if you play the game in VGA mode, even the poor Pal conversion runs at 60 FPS in parts

 

[LostDonkey]

It was always the force feedback in the cabinets that made these games for me. They just didn't feel the same at home and lost that physical input of the arcade machine.

 

[DragoonWalker]

Watching the gameplay footage makes me want to play it again. It just looks so fun, responsive, and fast. I have no interest in real rally racing, and all these boring simcade/sim racers just don't do it for me. Sega knew how to make easy to pick up and hard to master racers that had that visceral contact with the pavement and physics that felt great despite not being realistic at all. Their track design is also amazingly feel good and something throwback indie racers have not been able to replicate.

I prefer the even more over the top, fantastical and colorful SCUD Race and Daytona 2, but Sega Rally still beats anything these days.

 

[Fat Frog]

It was developed in tandem with the hardware not being final yet so something had to give to make it a launch title

Soulcalibur was ported in less than 7 months as well.(i heard it has even less geometry than VF3) I would be quite excited to imagine new optimized Sega Rally and Soulcalibur for the Dreamcast, built with modern tools.

Sega Rally PS2

How is Sega Rally 2006 by the way ?
I didn't find many informations (staff?Like the Dreamcast game, no Kenji Sasaki as director) or user reviews.(sorry i don't trust cucks journalists of that era who downplayed gems like Outrun 2)
Any VGEsoterica upcoming vid' for this one ?
(sega lord x liked it by the way)
It looks fun but as washed out as the Dreamcast version with clipping instead of fog. Arcade version crushed them all but i guess with the higher polycount the PS2 game played on OG PS3 must be graphically superior (on PS2 i guess it's an alliasing storm but probably prettier than the Dreamcast port. No shit, it's a 2006 game... )

Sega Rally 3


MR Thunderwing : " Eat shit, mother fucker". (I like the spirit )

Nonetheless, i think Sega Rally 3 is the most overlooked Sega Rally game !

Sega Rally Revo was a decent, innovative title (dynamic mud, sand which has impact on the physic and speed of your car) but didn't have the Sega vibes, that color vibrancy(same for Sega Rally 2 DC or Sega Rally 2006)

Sega Rally 3 IS as vibrant as Sega Rally 2 with even more Sega vibes,
it's actually a bridge with other Sega racers like Out Run in terms of art direction: Look at this beauty ! Can you feel the sunshine , the blue birds escaping from the palm trees, the water falls. It's also a bridge with the OG game since Desert 95 has been remaked...

 

[VGEsoterica]

Soulcalibur was ported in less than 7 months as well.(i heard it has even less geometry than VF3) I would be quite excited to imagine new optimized Sega Rally and Soulcalibur for the Dreamcast, built with modern tools.

Sega Rally PS2

How is Sega Rally 2006 by the way ?
I didn't find many informations (staff?Like the Dreamcast game, no Kenji Sasaki as director) or user reviews.(sorry i don't trust cucks journalists of that era who downplayed gems like Outrun 2)
Any VGEsoterica upcoming vid' for this one ?
(sega lord x liked it by the way)
It looks fun but as washed out as the Dreamcast version with clipping instead of fog. Arcade version crushed them all but i guess with the higher polycount the PS2 game played on OG PS3 must be graphically superior (on PS2 i guess it's an alliasing storm but probably prettier than the Dreamcast port. No shit, it's a 2006 game... )

Sega Rally 3


MR Thunderwing : " Eat shit, mother fucker". (I like the spirit )

Nonetheless, i think Sega Rally 3 is the most overlooked Sega Rally game !

Sega Rally Revo was a decent, innovative title (dynamic mud, sand which has impact on the physic and speed of your car) but didn't have the Sega vibes, that color vibrancy(same for Sega Rally 2 DC or Sega Rally 2006)

Sega Rally 3 IS as vibrant as Sega Rally 2 with even more Sega vibes,
it's actually a bridge with other Sega racers like Out Run in terms of art direction: Look at this beauty ! Can you feel the sunshine , the blue birds escaping from the palm trees, the water falls. It's also a bridge with the OG game since Desert 95 has been remaked...

Maybe a video on 2006. This is an arcade retrospective and it didn’t get an arcade release so maybe bonus episode. Dunno yet!

 

[Fat Frog]

Maybe a video on 2006. This is an arcade retrospective and it didn’t get an arcade release so maybe bonus episode. Dunno yet!

Sega Rally 3 is locked then...

 

[Fat Frog]

Hot take
Sega should have cancelled a few dreamcast racers back in the days.(at least postpone some of them) In 2000, they released MSR, Sega GT, Ferrari 355.

Without the (decent) Sega GT, it could have meant additional focus on MSR, more content on Ferrari 355 and probably more polish on Sega Rally 2.

Man... The company who made Scud race, sega rally, Daytona 2 only gave birth to an half baked Sega Rally 2 port, a strange Daytona version (i wanted a Daytona 2 port so badly...) and Sega "useless" GT. F355 saved their ass though.

Too many projects maybe...

 

[Crayon]

Didn't like it on Dreamcast and never came across an arcade unit.

Super gt was common enough tho and that game fucking rules.

 

[Poppyseed]

SR2 DC is one of the biggest disappointments in my gaming life. I played SR2 in the arcade for months, or years as its cabinets would never cease to exist here. DC should've been able to run a close to arcade perfect port, but Sega went for a cheap Windows port. I prefer to play it on Supermodel3 ofcourse. Though the 10 year championship isn't there.

SR2 was generally deemed worse than SR1 because of its handling I think. But I like it more, also because I played it in the Arcade much more. I always have issues with the Snow stage. But I can beat the game.

The best racing game, in my opinion, is ofcourse Daytona 2. I also play that game still.

Where to play Daytona 2, though?

 

[Team Andromeda]

Soulcalibur was ported in less than 7 months as well.(i heard it has even less geometry than VF3) I would be quite excited to imagine new optimized Sega Rally and Soulcalibur for the Dreamcast, built with modern tools.

That's not being fair either. SC was a port of a system 12 game, it was always going to be easier for the team to improve the GFX. SEGA Rally 2 was a port of a state-of-the-art Model 3 Step 2 coin up less than 6 months old, which would have be a harder task for the porting team at that time

The main game is brilliant totally brilliant, but the DC version was really let down by the lighting effects and more so the debris and mud effects being nothing like the Model 3 version and in places almost too transparent.
I'm sure if Smilebit were given more time, it would have been perfect even if using Win CE. I'm sure it was possible to use Win CE for the 1st steps and then look to use SEGA own tools latter and I think even with Win CE Smilebit was getting over a million polygons

I read that Smilebit team for the last 2 months had to work 7 days a week, 24 hours a day (with 2 lines doing 12-hour shifts) I'm not sure how much of that was true, but it was clear the game was rushed out, much like the DC in Japan. It would have been so much better if SOJ delayed the launch of the DC in Japan until March 1999 IMO

 

[Alexios]

I don't think that was his point and there's no reason to diminish the achievement Soulcalibur was, any other company would have probably just given Dreamcast a straight port in higher resolution in such a small time frame yet Namco essentially remade every asset to the most beautiful seen in a fighting game yet (even if VF3 had more polygons it was just crude in comparison, pioneering in 1996 but far from ideal modeling techniques compared to later years). It might not be pushing the largest amount of polygons in a Dreamcast game or whatever per frame but it's artistically brilliant and technically essentially flawless. It's basically perfect.

As for his actual question, I guess if it was made later or with more time instead (diminishing the appeal of Dreamcast's launch window in the process) it could probably be something between DOA2 and Tekken Tag Tournament (the fancied up PS2 port in the same way as SC for DC, just even more pronounced after their experience with SC). Or basically DOA2 with SC characters, just missing some of the fancier lighting/material tricks of TTT. Well, that's probably describing something similar to Soulcalibur II, it's not like it was a huge leap beyond the first, though characters had more polygons and arenas were far more complex (so indeed a bit like DOA2).

F355 Challenge is probably a good indication of how good a Sega Rally without technical issues would look on Dreamcast. That's probably the first truly accomplished realistic racing game ever made if Sega Rally 2 (even arcade) doesn't quite make the cut because of being slightly more stylized (and of course Daytona USA 2/Scud Race are even more so), GT 3 & 4 be damned. Sega don't get enough credit as pioneers, they did so much cool shit first, well. Daytona's remake or whatever is pretty sweet on Dreamcast also. Though without looking at tech breakdowns it seems technically modest, like Soulcalibur it's brilliantly polished, balanced and with the 60fps in account it looks as good as anything on the system, save for the weird car shine.

 

[Fat Frog]

That's not being fair either. SC was a port of a system 12 game, it was always going to be easier for the team to improve the GFX. SEGA Rally 2 was a port of a state-of-the-art Model 3 Step 2 coin up less than 6 months old, which would have be a harder task for the porting team at that time

My bad, it wasn't my point to "oppose" SR2 and Soulcalibur. I'm just saying for both games the Dreamcast can do muuuuch more (Namco did an amazing job for an US launch title though), I just would be excited to imagine modern ports of these games on the same console.

In 2005/2007, a small developper has shown impressive SFX on Dreamcast, so i would be curious to see how a big publisher could push the limits of the system.(Head Hunter's creators said on dream pod#77 that the Dreamcast with all games released has shown nothing of its full potential... Were they talking of normal map or something, i'll check thr podcast soon)

(Emulation i guess)

 

[nush]

Yeah Sega seemed to go cheap and quick on the port and it shows

My hazy memory seems to remember that they started a port without Windows CE and then because of time constraints and lack of new hardware knowledge they swapped to using Windows CE. I did have a Katana GDR of the early version but it did not boot on a retail unit, before you ask that disc has been lost to the sands of time.

 

[Fat Frog]

My hazy memory seems to remember that they started a port without Windows CE and then because of time constraints and lack of new hardware knowledge they swapped to using Windows CE. I did have a Katana GDR of the early version but it did not boot on a retail unit, before you ask that disc has been lost to the sands of time.

We're also looking for Saturn versions of Shenmue and Virtua Fighter 3 (does it really exist) ha ha ha

 

[VGEsoterica]

My hazy memory seems to remember that they started a port without Windows CE and then because of time constraints and lack of new hardware knowledge they swapped to using Windows CE. I did have a Katana GDR of the early version but it did not boot on a retail unit, before you ask that disc has been lost to the sands of time.

breaking my heart on that last sentence

 

[Fat Frog]

Sega Rally 2006 on PS2: Good geometry, effects, lights but insane alliasing...

Sega Rally 2006 on PCSX2:
It's faaaaaaaaaaaaar better with a clean IQ. Change the color ton (more vibrant) and it could be beautiful.

Looks fun but once again, i think it's a waste of ressource. (Sega of Japan released the game only in Japan but at the same time Sega West was developing Sega Rally Revo... )

 

[RAIDEN1]

I never knew all this time, that the power behind the Dreamcast was still inferior to what was powering Sega Rally 2 (which itself was also a 1998 production like the Dreamcast) why the developers decided to go with a more muted/greyed out tone for the home-port remains a mystery.....as well as the fact that Daytona 2 never got ported to Sega's dream machine either..

 

[Tarin02543]

Anyone else having difficulties trying to run the SR2 pc version on windows 11? I've downloaded a 'mobile package' which is meant to be compatible with windows 11.

 

[DragoonWalker]

Sega Rally 2006 on PS2: Good geometry, effects, lights but insane alliasing...

Sega Rally 2006 on PCSX2:
It's faaaaaaaaaaaaar better with a clean IQ. Change the color ton (more vibrant) and it could be beautiful.

Looks fun but once again, i think it's a waste of ressource. (Sega of Japan released the game only in Japan but at the same time Sega West was developing Sega Rally Revo... )

It's more than the dull muddy graphics that take away the appeal factor, the chasing of realism in lighting and texture kills it entirely. None of the crisp sharpness, color, or stark lighting that just made the originals pop so hard and feel so fast. Even Revo which was more colorful than 2006 looks worse despite having more detail and advanced lighting. SR1 and 2 just has this well lit, almost abstracted graphic design look that evoked pop art and car mag covers, working well for the limited graphics of the time. This just goes to tell you that successful art and design are not always based around realism, at all.