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[Spring-Loaded]

As a an example for the transgendered issues.

Ugh, i just now notice some dude using my post as a jump off point for his intolerance

 

[SocksForWoks]

It's not the same

An old post for this thread but it was a response to a statement on discrimination, 'Boys not allowed is just as bad as Girls not allowed.'

Is this an example of what a 'goon' is?

 

[flkraven]

If Rex Ryan wanted to make a Star Citizen guild or sub forum based solely around foot fetishes, I'm sure it would generate less of a controversy. It is really sad when pockets of the gaming community get so up-in-arms over something as simple as a female-only group.

 

[APF]

It's not hard:

Excluding a marginalized group == bad.
Marginalized groups wanting safe areas == good.

 

[flatearthpandas]

I found it interesting that her first few posts made mention of an EVE community to set some precedence of a female-exclusive group like she presented working out perfectly fine for everyone. Was hesitant to form an opinion earlier, but having looked over the thread it seems the idea was a perfectly acceptable one.

Unfortunately, there are mods on every forum that are more than happy to hand out bans to people they disagree with for presenting ideas that they dislike. Breaking forum rules in any way only gives them an excuse to ban.

I think bringing this public was probably a good idea overall, but I don't see a good resolution happening.

 

[PBY]

If Rex Ryan wanted to make a Star Citizen guild or sub forum based solely around foot fetishes, I'm sure it would generate less of a controversy. It is really sad when pockets of the gaming community get so up-in-arms over something as simple as a female-only group.

I honestly don't understand the controversy. They want a group- who does it harm? Why can't they have their own group?

If you take a step back, you realize that the gatekeepers on some of this stuff are mostly males. And then the discussion about this issue is male dominated as well. So, yeah.

 

[jediyoshi]

Hardcore space-sim players are being sexist? Well there's a surprise.

Or is it.

Spoiler

It is.

 

[Odrion]

It's kinda weird reading people's view on Goons as being 4chan type trolls.

While sometimes obsessive, cynical, and rejective, they're one of the more socially conscious nerd communities out there. Even the lowliest of Goons may ostracize you if you come across as MRA-y in anyway.

Remember that this is the community that got reddit to take down all their pedophile subreddits.

 

[hellclerk]

To anyone looking for your proof that this whole matter is Goon trolling, look no further

And then let’s go ahead and address the elephant in the room: obviously, a group from the Something Awful forums are using this as an opportunity to troll the forums. As always, this is extremely tedious. The user in question is also part of the Something Awful group, which made the moderator dealing with the issue believe the entire thread was a setup. This would not be the first time SA Goons have created an issue.

Edit: Someone should probably update the OP with this info. Certainly doesn't paint this in a pretty light.

 

[Mistel]

Ugh, i just now notice some dude using my post as a jump off point for his intolerance

The level of accepted intolerance is just wrong.

 

[APF]

To anyone looking for your proof that this whole matter is Goon trolling, look no further

"However, on review and in spite of the sheer volume of concerned Goons coming out of the woodwork on this, I do not believe the thread was necessarily a setup and that several mistakes were made in terms of moderation."

 

[aeolist]

It's kinda weird reading people's view on Goons as being 4chan type trolls.

While sometimes obsessive, cynical, and rejective, they're one of the more socially conscious nerd communities out there. Even the lowliest of Goons may ostracize you if you come across as MRA-y in anyway.

Remember that this is the community that got reddit to take down all their pedophile subreddits.

it's pretty simple, if your view is that sexism is an overblown issue then you'll look for suspicious motives behind anyone who brings it up. if SA is a socially conscious group that cares about issues like sexism you'll see them as a gang of trolls stirring up shit over a non-issue.

 

[PBY]

To anyone looking for your proof that this whole matter is Goon trolling, look no further

He also says:

However, on review and in spite of the sheer volume of concerned Goons coming out of the woodwork on this, I do not believe the thread was necessarily a setup and that several mistakes were made in terms of moderation. I will now discuss my read on what happened and let you know the actions I am going to take.

ALSO: I think this is kinda shitty. She got banned for calling out sexists as sexist? What the hell is that?:

Let me stress right now: I do not believe anyone on the moderation team banned Lauresh because they are a woman. I am 100% confident that it was because of the 30+ flags complaining about other users in the thread, with profane messages attached: “fucking ban this retard,” “for the love of god would someone please stop this person from shitting up the thread already,” “mother fucking trolling” and so on. Lauresh seems to have flagged not only sexist posts (which should be warned/probated) but also anything complaining that the thread was a setup (‘you’re a Goon, you just want to fight, etc.’)

And in the end, he says that they should be afforded such a safe space. Why? He goes on to post how girls get creeped on.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

To anyone looking for your proof that this whole matter is Goon trolling, look no further

All that says is the mod felt justified in not taking the thread seriously because of the poster's affiliation.

 

[Marcel]

To anyone looking for your proof that this whole matter is Goon trolling, look no further

Looks like you stopped reading there.

However, on review and in spite of the sheer volume of concerned Goons coming out of the woodwork on this, I do not believe the thread was necessarily a setup and that several mistakes were made in terms of moderation. I will now discuss my read on what happened and let you know the actions I am going to take.

Sounds like your cries about conspiracy were actually misplaced. Thanks for confirming what I already knew: your Alex Jones shit-stirring was a big stupid distraction.

 

[natsuyasumi]

That is some highly selective reading, doomed1..

 

[poorlonelycomputer]

Oh great, another internet debate about sexism/racism/etc. where half the participants are white men who don't know the definition of sexism/racism/etc.

 

[someday]

I think it's pretty telling when you have men telling women that they don't need a thread or subforum for themselves. Don't you see how utterly demeaning that is? It just goes to show why women would want a place to talk amongst themselves. And without mandating "women only" you know absolutely that men would dive-bomb the thread just to make their voices heard yet again.

 

[Moral Panic]

Lauresh seems to have flagged not only sexist posts (which should be warned/probated) but also anything complaining that the thread was a setup (‘you’re a Goon, you just want to fight, etc.’)

Someone is gonna have to tell me what's wrong with flagging users who are thread shitting.

 

[aeolist]

Someone is gonna have to tell me what's wrong with flagging users who are thread shitting.

some goons have trolled them, therefore it's reasonable to assume that all posts from all goons are trolls

 

[Marcel]

Someone is gonna have to tell me what's wrong with flagging users who are thread shitting.

I doubt they have as thorough of a TOS and administration team as NeoGAF so obviously some of that garbage is going to fall through the cracks. In this case I guess the Star Citizen forum administration is just letting it poison the well.

 

[hellclerk]

I never said anything about the thread itself, it's the response, the blog is part of that. This is an issue precisely because of the Goons taking the opportunity to concern troll over the issue, not the thread itself. Like I said, I've seen other threads start and fizzle to little fanfare, the fact that Goon posters pushed the issue and have made several other similar threads drove this situation. Otherwise it would have been yet another thread, another day, and dead by the end of the week.

 

[Karkador]

Someone is gonna have to tell me what's wrong with flagging users who are thread shitting.

moderators not wanting to do actual work?

 

[Buzzman]

I never said anything about the thread itself, it's the response, the blog is part of that. This is an issue precisely because of the Goons taking the opportunity to concern troll over the issue, not the thread itself. Like I said, I've seen other threads start and fizzle to little fanfare, the fact that Goon posters pushed the issue and have made several other similar threads drove this situation. Otherwise it would have been yet another thread, another day, and dead by the end of the week.

So what you're saying is that without goons this issue would have never come out in public? Good on them.

 

[RpgN]

Looks like you stopped reading there.

Sounds like your cries about conspiracy were actually misplaced. Thanks for confirming what I already knew: your Alex Jones shit-stirring was a big stupid distraction.

It also seems the problem will be solved:

In the meantime, I am hereby instructing William, our lead moderator, to do the following:

- Return the ‘Female Gamers Group’ thread to the forums. The thread should be heavily moderated to remove sexist comments and ban users who make them. Let us try to have a serious conversation here.
- Unban Lauresh with a single strike (24 hours) rather than two (7 days.)
- Remove the moderator who banned her from the active roster pending further review. As I said above, I am confident that Lauresh was not banned because she is a woman, but I will not feel comfortable until we review all of this moderators’ recent actions.

And as if it even needed to be said, there is more than enough room for a female-only group in the ‘verse. Making connections like that is what our Organizations system is for, and there’s absolutely no additional room to argue with that.

That's great news!

 

[Odrion]

Wait, what.

"Concern troll"?!

 

[Marcel]

I never said anything about the thread itself, it's the response, the blog is part of that. This is an issue precisely because of the Goons taking the opportunity to concern troll over the issue, not the thread itself. Like I said, I've seen other threads start and fizzle to little fanfare, the fact that Goon posters pushed the issue and have made several other similar threads drove this situation. Otherwise it would have been yet another thread, another day, and dead by the end of the week.

Insert concern troll with the "C" circled.

 

[APF]

This is an issue precisely because of the Goons taking the opportunity to concern troll over the issue

I don't think you're using that term correctly:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)#Concern_troll

 

[kinshadow]

Her post wasn't trollish at all tho. It's you that's bringing the baggage to a benign post.

If a member that blatantly advertises their affiliation to a guild 'know' for trolling (deserved or not) wants to a make a 'womens only' org, you don't think that is suspicious?

I don't see "trollish" at all. I also don't see the conspiracy angle because it's all this childish hearsay. Scams and shit like that exist to be sure but nobody is showing anything to prove it other than "I could show you but here's why I can't". Yeah that really makes me want to believe you.

I'm not saying they are scammers and trolls because that is not the point. The points is everyone 'thinks' they are scammers and trolls, thus the response she got.

It is like driving around in a blacked out van giving out free candy. You may have the purest intentions in the world, but you sure don't 'look' like it.

 

[novenD]

ALSO: I think this is kinda shitty. She got banned for calling out sexists as sexist? What the hell is that?:

Let me stress right now: I do not believe anyone on the moderation team banned Lauresh because they are a woman. I am 100% confident that it was because of the 30+ flags complaining about other users in the thread, with profane messages attached: “fucking ban this retard,” “for the love of god would someone please stop this person from shitting up the thread already,” “mother fucking trolling” and so on. Lauresh seems to have flagged not only sexist posts (which should be warned/probated) but also anything complaining that the thread was a setup (‘you’re a Goon, you just want to fight, etc.’)

Just to clarify this, it seems the mod is saying that the users who made the sexist posts should be warned/probated, not Lauresh.

 

[PBY]

If a member that blatantly advertises their affiliation to a guild 'know' for trolling (deserved or not) wants to a make a 'womens only' org, you don't think that is suspicious?

I don't know anything about the game. I'm evaluating her post based on what she wrote. It was perfectly reasonable. And the heads of the community seem to agree with her now.

 

[PBY]

Just to clarify this, it seems the mod is saying that the users who made the sexist posts should be warned/probated, not Lauresh.

Disagree- I think he's saying she was banned for flagging.

 

[Buzzman]

And then let’s go ahead and address the elephant in the room: obviously, a group from the Something Awful forums are using this as an opportunity to troll the forums. As always, this is extremely tedious. The user in question is also part of the Something Awful group, which made the moderator dealing with the issue believe the entire thread was a setup. This would not be the first time SA Goons have created an issue.

However, on review and in spite of the sheer volume of concerned Goons coming out of the woodwork on this, I do not believe the thread was necessarily a setup and that several mistakes were made in terms of moderation. I will now discuss my read on what happened and let you know the actions I am going to take.

Lauresh seems to have flagged not only sexist posts (which should be warned/probated) but also anything complaining that the thread was a setup (‘you’re a Goon, you just want to fight, etc.&#8217

So complaining about a thread being a setup: OK
Suggesting that they implement rape in the game: also OK.
Reporting thread-shitters: Not OK.

 

[hellclerk]

So what you're saying is that without goons this issue would have never come out in public? Good on them.

No, what I'm saying is that this is an issue because the Goons have blown it out of proportion and began using it as a carte blanche to troll the RSI forums. This is a non-issue created by bad reputations that was twisted by trolls for leverage. Clearly, the moderation staff is having none of it. The thread creator was still banned, and the thread still moderated for content. But without Goons making their big deal about it, this would have been yet another unremarkable thread.

 

[PBY]

No, what I'm saying is that this is an issue because the Goons have blown it out of proportion and began using it as a carte blanche to troll the RSI forums. This is a non-issue created by bad reputations that was twisted by trolls for leverage. Clearly, the moderation staff is having none of it. The thread creator was still banned, and the thread still moderated for content. But without Goons making their big deal about it, this would have been yet another unremarkable thread.

You're so concerned with the trolling. What kind of trolling exactly? They seem to be on the right side of the issue. I'd be more concerned with the sexist shit that seemingly messed everything up worse.

 

[Marcel]

You're so concerned with the trolling. What kind of trolling exactly? They seem to be on the right side of the issue. I'd be more concerned with the sexist shit that seemingly messed everything up worse.

He's contending that they merely took up the issue to "get" the Star Citizen forums rather than take up the issue for the right reasons. He hasn't really proven anything about his conspiracy theory and has just made himself look like misterxmedia.

 

[kinshadow]

I don't know anything about the game. I'm evaluating her post based on what she wrote. It was perfectly reasonable. And the heads of the community seem to agree with her now.

They reference the guild directly in the official response:

"And then let’s go ahead and address the elephant in the room: obviously, a group from the Something Awful forums are using this as an opportunity to troll the forums. As always, this is extremely tedious. The user in question is also part of the Something Awful group, which made the moderator dealing with the issue believe the entire thread was a setup. This would not be the first time SA Goons have created an issue. "

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/126424/regarding-female-gamers-grou

 

[Buzzman]

No, what I'm saying is that this is an issue because the Goons have blown it out of proportion and began using it as a carte blanche to troll the RSI forums. This is a non-issue created by bad reputations that was twisted by trolls for leverage. Clearly, the moderation staff is having none of it. The thread creator was still banned, and the thread still moderated for content. But without Goons making their big deal about it, this would have been yet another unremarkable thread.

.....
So what you're saying is, the goons made this into a public issue so others can see what happens there? And this is somehow wrong?


Also, how are they trolling the RSI forums exactly? Are they forcing users on there to spout misogynistic garbage?

 

[Odrion]

No, what I'm saying is that this is an issue because the Goons have blown it out of proportion

Nah this seems pretty proportional.

 

[SocksForWoks]

They still have the thread up about 'Making the game more approachable to female gamers' which has some very stereotypical ideas.

Let's just hope they keep the focus on the game first and foremost.

 

[novenD]

Disagree- I think he's saying she was banned for flagging.

For flagging users complaining about the thread being a SA setup? Yes, apparently.
For flagging sexist posts? No.

Mind you, I don't think that's a fair decision, but isn't seemingly one the SC mods made maliciously.

 

[Wazzy]

Just to clarify this, it seems the mod is saying that the users who made the sexist posts should be warned/probated, not Lauresh.

Hm? They're saying she was banned for flagging.

 

[ThreePiMatt]

He also says:

However, on review and in spite of the sheer volume of concerned Goons coming out of the woodwork on this, I do not believe the thread was necessarily a setup and that several mistakes were made in terms of moderation. I will now discuss my read on what happened and let you know the actions I am going to take.

ALSO: I think this is kinda shitty. She got banned for calling out sexists as sexist? What the hell is that?:

Let me stress right now: I do not believe anyone on the moderation team banned Lauresh because they are a woman. I am 100% confident that it was because of the 30+ flags complaining about other users in the thread, with profane messages attached: “fucking ban this retard,” “for the love of god would someone please stop this person from shitting up the thread already,” “mother fucking trolling” and so on. Lauresh seems to have flagged not only sexist posts (which should be warned/probated) but also anything complaining that the thread was a setup (‘you’re a Goon, you just want to fight, etc.’)

And in the end, he says that they should be afforded such a safe space. Why? He goes on to post how girls get creeped on.

She wasn't banned for "calling out sexists as sexists," she was banned for calling people "retards" and telling people to stop "shitting up the thread." That stuff is ban worthy here, even if its directed at trolls.

 

[Minsc]

So complaining about a thread being a setup: OK
Suggesting that they implement rape in the game: also OK.
Reporting thread-shitters: Not OK.

What do you mean the rape thread was OK, the thread is closed, clearly discussion is not OK.

 

[Buzzman]

What do you mean the rape thread was OK, the thread is closed, clearly discussion is not OK.

It didn't warrant a suspension of any kind, but flagging comments does?

 

[Marcel]

Also, how are they trolling the RSI forums exactly? Are they forcing users on there to spout misogynistic garbage?

They're making the bad forum look bad to troll? So they were on the right side to troll? So being against sexism is bad because it's actually just a troll? What about the actual sexists? Are they not trolls? So what about anyone who legitimately felt like there was sexism on the boards? Are they trolls too? Are they part of the Anti-Star Citizen Goon Takeover Conspiracy? Where does George Soros fit in?

You're gonna need to get the chalkboard, doomed1.

 

[PBY]

She wasn't banned for "calling out sexists as sexists," she was banned for calling people "retards" and telling people to stop "shitting up the thread." That stuff is ban worthy here, even if its directed at trolls.

I agree, she messed up calling people retards.

It just sucks though, and this inevitably ALWAYS happens with issues of a marginalized minority. The 100s of sexist posts which were way worse than what she wrote get ignored, and we focus on what she said (and was provoked to say). The shitheads always become the victims, and the real victims are always torn down.

It sucks.

 

[BobbyRobby]

You're so concerned with the trolling. What kind of trolling exactly? They seem to be on the right side of the issue. I'd be more concerned with the sexist shit that seemingly messed everything up worse.

Am I right in reading that she was banned for backseat moderation, and flagging sexist posts with messages such as "ban this retard?"

It shouldn't matter whether the person is on the right side of the issue. That doesn't give them an excuse to break the rules.

 

[hellclerk]

You're so concerned with the trolling. What kind of trolling exactly? They seem to be on the right side of the issue. I'd be more concerned with the sexist shit that seemingly messed everything up worse.

I said before, it's concern trolling. Goons on the forums have been for a long while struggling with the moderation staff for leverage within the community, and have several times expressed that the current moderators should be sacked and replaced. Their goal is to delegitimize the current forum moderation staff, and use popular issues on the forums, recently sex and gender equality, to sow doubt and indignance against the moderation staff. Before this, when there was the big Goon scare, Goons tried using that to get the mods to back them up as if they were some poor oppressed group on the forums. Of course the moderation staff didn't have any of it, so instead the Goons turned on the mods and started complaining to Lesnick, saying they should be sacked and whatnot. The "right side" of the issue doesn't matter, because the issue on the face of this isn't the reason behind this exposure.

 

[Marcel]

I said before, it's concern trolling. Goons on the forums have been for a long while struggling with the moderation staff for leverage within the community, and have several times expressed that the current moderators should be sacked and replaced. Their goal is to delegitimize the current forum moderation staff, and use popular issues on the forums, recently sex and gender equality, to sow doubt and indignance against the moderation staff. Before this, when there was the big Goon scare, Goons tried using that to get the mods to back them up as if they were some poor oppressed group on the forums. Of course the moderation staff didn't have any of it, so instead the Goons turned on the mods and started complaining to Lesnick, saying they should be sacked and whatnot. The "right side" of the issue doesn't matter, because the issue on the face of this isn't the reason behind this exposure.

I said before, unless you provide actual evidence that connects all this, you're basically full of it and throwing even more bullshit on this discussion.