Support NeoGAF

[Bernd Lauert]

It's funny to watch them cling to the old ways, but honestly if you get enough subscribers, you pay for all your monthly costs, and have extra revenue it becomes a win.

Just too many people don't understand that yet. And it could be an Achilles heel.

With gamepass they can't afford 200 mil games. They don't realize that it's paying the monthly bills and 200 mil over 5 years isn't much with that revenue.

They are just looking at end tally numbers, and trying to perpetuate fear.

It's just maths. Gamepass currently makes roughly $200m per month in revenue. Even if we assume that they spend half of that on 3rd party deals (they don't, not even close) and server costs, the other $100m a month are more than enough to pay for all the games they're making. And Gamepass will keep growing.

 

[recma12]

The big question is for me now is what does Sony do if and I say IF the majority of its player base skip the big titles day one due to the 70 pound prices and show that they are happy to wait until games reach ps plus extra? Or cheap second hand copies.

I think this really depends on the game. God of War or Uncharted 5 would do fine, even at 80€/70GBP but with lower-tier IPs like Horizon, Days Gone, Returnal etc. price really is a factor (as in, it's been a big part of the discussion).

Compared to just 5 years ago, there is way more competition for players money and attention. Gamepass, PS+ tiers, freebie games, xcloud/stadia, f2p titles with AAA production, Apple Arcade and mobile in general, digital sales all the time.
Just imagine someone in like 2012 told you "Hey, in a few years there will be a massive Call of Duty Battle Royale game and it will be free of charge, plus you can play this with your Xbox and PC buddies! Oh and Halo? Yeah that is also free now."
Who would have believed that?

My point is: The value proposition of a full price AAA game is pretty terrible in this market, so your games better get 90+ on metacritic or people will wait while they play a million other games on their list.

 

[Team Andromeda]

SONY need to make money and the PS is their cash cow and their fans put up with being ripped off. The Series X is a better-designed console right down the manufacturing design and unlike SONY. MS are cash rich, has no debts and can afford to play the long game and not need to make instant profits on looking to rip off their usebase with $70 for a new game and just make smaller profits over the longer term.

 

[linkent]

Do people really think

Starfield is cheap? Elder Scrolls 6 will be cheap? Fallout 5 will be cheap? Fable? Hellblade 2? Indiana Jones? Redfall? Perfect Dark? Avowed? The Outer Worlds 2? What about all the other first party studios like id software, coalition, inXile with games coming to Game Pass?

None of the games I listed are games as a service.

Hard to profit from sub model? This is Microsoft we are talking about... Game Pass is more or less adopting the Office 365 model. Whenever people factor in the profitability of Game Pass and the sustainability of it with very high quality, big budget AAAs you MUST also factor the company attached to this and their ability to bankroll those kinds of things. Microsoft is one of those companies who are perfectly fine with not getting a full premium sale up front. They're more than comfortable getting it over the course of their fiscal year. Such a thing would be more difficult for Sony in the short term because Sony's overall business simply isn't quite as strong as Microsoft's.

In Microsoft's more recent 3 month quarterly report for Q4 FY 2022 (3 months ended June 2022) these were the results.

$51.9 billion in revenue
$20.5 billion in operating income
$16.7 billion in net income

But what about the entire fiscal year? Microsoft's FY 2022 (12 months ended June 2022)

$198.3 billion in revenue
$83.4 billion in operating income
$72.7 billion in net income

Compare that to Sony's most recent full fiscal year 2021 (12 months Ended Mar 31, 2022)

$69.4 billion in revenue
$8.4 billion in operating income
$6.1 billion in net income

Another way to look at these numbers is the following:

For every $5 billion of revenue Microsoft makes $2.10 billion in Operating income
For every $5 billion of revenue Sony makes $605 million in Operating income

It's better to say all this would be far less sustainable for Sony, but not Microsoft. They're not the same. Sony as a company who doesn't bring in the kind of money Microsoft does is more in need of getting their return on their investment faster via premium, full price sales. Microsoft? They're perfectly fine with waiting and getting their money throughout the year. You see what they make in 3 months compared to Sony for a full year?

And keep in mind that Game Pass has grown 15 million subs since 2020. It's no doubt likely to grow further over the next 8 years (not assuming the pace will be the same, of course), especially once the Activision deal is approved and major releases like Starfield and Elder Scrolls 6 drop. Game Pass growing means MORE revenue coming in. We see the way Microsoft as an overall business converts revenue. Clearly so far with Game Pass along with a gaming business that isn't quite as profitable as either Sony's or Nintendo's hasn't done nearly enough to stop Microsoft as a company from consistently reporting record earnings.

So when you suggest games will be cheaper, it will lead to the devaluation of games, and it will never be profitable, be careful to never forget that this is Microsoft we are talking about. They are not separate from Xbox. And when that Activision deal, giving them Call of Duty (mobile versions too), Candy Crush, Diablo, Overwatch, World of Warcraft etc, etc., closes this will all be even more true.

do you have the number for Playstation vs MS gaming division?
Xbox is definitely not making those net income.
GP is burning money for market share, and yes MS can keep on losing money for a long time.
But perception of how much a game worth will change.
And more importantly how GP will change the development of the type of games.

Even if GP gain 100million subscribers at 10$/month.
That is only 12billion. Activision alone has 5.5billion operating cost in 2021.
It clearly not profitable in a long run.
Price increase will definitely happened in near future.
Enjoy the honeymoon now.

 

[DarkMage619]

Do people really think

do you have the number for Playstation vs MS gaming division?
Xbox is definitely not making those net income.
GP is burning money for market share, and yes MS can keep on losing money for a long time.
But perception of how much a game worth will change.
And more importantly how GP will change the development of the type of games.

Even if GP gain 100million subscribers at 10$/month.
That is only 12billion. Activision alone has 5.5billion operating cost in 2021.
It clearly not profitable in a long run.
Price increase will definitely happened in near future.
Enjoy the honeymoon now.

MS makes money on more than just Game pass. I wonder why people keep forgetting this?

 

[RobRSG]

Incoming the announcement of Playstation Gaming PESS (Premium Entertainment Subscription System).

 

[Bernd Lauert]

GP is burning money for market share, and yes MS can keep on losing money for a long time.

No they're not, the CEO of Microsoft gaming explicitly said so. Sadly, the lie that Gamepass is burning money is constantly being parroted here, so a lot of people still believe it.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

SONY need to make money and the PS is their cash cow and their fans put up with being ripped off. The Series X is a better-designed console right down the manufacturing design and unlike SONY. MS are cash rich, has no debts and can afford to play the long game and not need to make instant profits on looking to rip off their usebase with $70 for a new game and just make smaller profits over the longer term.

the long game? MS has been in that position with Xbox for more than 20 years.

Didn't MS introduce the "Negative Number Release Date": Pay premium to play early for 99.99 USD? ...talking about ripping the userbase. (Especially the fanboys).

 

[Bernd Lauert]

That is only 12billion. Activision alone has 5.5billion operating cost in 2021.

How did you arrive at this number? Sounds very wrong.

 

[kikii]

MS makes money on more than just Game pass. I wonder why people keep forgetting this?

im pretty sure L linkent means MS gaming division

 

[Team Andromeda]

the long game? MS has been in that position with Xbox for more than 20 years.

Didn't MS introduce the "Negative Number Release Date": Pay premium to play early for 99.99 USD? ...talking about ripping the userbase. (Especially the fanboys).

LOL, Is that the best you can do? MS doesn't look to charge $70 for a new game, doesn't look to charge for next gen updates or look to raise the price of its console (MS made that cock up in 2009)
This Gen Team XBox is doing so much right, unlike SONY.

 

[jm89]

SONY need to make money and the PS is their cash cow and their fans put up with being ripped off. The Series X is a better-designed console right down the manufacturing design and unlike SONY. MS are cash rich, has no debts and can afford to play the long game and not need to make instant profits on looking to rip off their usebase with $70 for a new game and just make smaller profits over the longer term.

Send that to shuhei man, I think you nailed it.

 

[linkent]

How did you arrive at this number? Sounds very wrong.

https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/ATVI/activision-blizzard/operating-expenses

 

[Bernd Lauert]

https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/ATVI/activision-blizzard/operating-expenses

I see, that's simply revenue minus profit. Of course, that doesn't mean that making games cost them 5 billion dollars. For example, every 70 dollar sale of a game incurs 30%, or 21 dollars of "operating cost" as a platform fee. Even more if the game is sold retail.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

LOL, Is that the best you can do? MS doesn't look to charge $70 for a new game, doesn't look to charge for next gen updates or look to raise the price of its console (MS made that cock up in 2009)
This Gen Team XBox is doing so much right, unlike SONY.

Is that the best you can do? ..
Ask that to MS.

Why are you surprised? This is the pattern of the market leader. It happens in every industry. This is why competition matters.

The issue with Xbox is that their aren't competing where it really matters: the actual content.

 

[jm89]

LOL, Is that the best you can do? MS doesn't look to charge $70 for a new game, doesn't look to charge for next gen updates or look to raise the price of its console (MS made that cock up in 2009)
This Gen Team XBox is doing so much right, unlike SONY.

Well I'm not paying $70 for crossfirex. So yeah makes sense.

 

[linkent]

MS makes money on more than just Game pass. I wonder why people keep forgetting this?

They do. And GP do not have 10mil subscribers.
It is not hard to see microsoft’s strategy here..
To think Sony should follow their strategy is crazy.
They will follow if they are losing. But that will be sure followed by scaling down production cost in their game design.

 

[Team Andromeda]

Well I'm not paying $70 for crossfirex. So yeah makes sense.

Nither did I, but never mind.

 

[Team Andromeda]

Is that the best you can do? ..
Ask that to MS.

Why are you surprised? This is the pattern of the market leader. It happens in every industry. This is why competition matters.

The issue with Xbox is that their aren't competing where it really matters: the actual content.

Team Xbox are and that's why the PS fans don't like it. They know that this gen MS not only got a great and well priced consoles, that Gamepass is great and great value and that deepdown MS is investing massively in content.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Team Xbox are and that's why the PS fans don't like it. They know that this gen MS not only got a great and well priced consoles, that Gamepass is great and great value and that deepdown MS is investing massively in content.

Well, just look at the conversarion once GoW Ragnarok drops

 

[Haggard]

You must not understand the difference between minority and majority. That's the only reason I can think of how you are still arguing this. 30% is the minority! And that was within 6 months for Netflix. You're talking about subscribing to gp for a month and unsubbing after. Very very few people are doing that. That's fine that you do that, but you need to realize that you're in the very small minority. And that's okay. Ms and other subscription services understand that a very small percentage of people will do that. Good for you for using your brain and and gaming the system! /s

So now you`re saying GP is definitely comparable to Netflix, but also definitely not to sth like Paramount+ because of "reasons".

You realize that "feelings" and facts are 2 different things and that anything you say is 100% just your personal opinion as long as we don`t see official data from MS?
All, and really all we know is that GP had a great start and that it`s supposedly "sustainable" in PR words. We have no clue as to how exactly the cashflow looks nor how big the actual user base interested in such a service really is nor how the churn rate has looked till now and definitely not how it will look in the future.
Basically you are just pretending to know stuff that no one besides an MS insider breaking NDAs can know, or in other words, you`re a blabbermouth.

 

[Team Andromeda]

Well, just look at the conversarion once GoW Ragnarok drops

I'll be buying it. However next year when Forza and Starfield drops I don't need to buy, they'll be on Gamepass. I rather than model myself...

 

[Hobbygaming]

SONY need to make money and the PS is their cash cow and their fans put up with being ripped off. The Series X is a better-designed console right down the manufacturing design and unlike SONY. MS are cash rich, has no debts and can afford to play the long game and not need to make instant profits on looking to rip off their usebase with $70 for a new game and just make smaller profits over the longer term.

Did you feel "ripped off" when you bought $60 games just 5 years ago?

 

[RoboFu]

I don’t know what people are arguing about here. It’s just like the “ we believe in generations” BS. They believe in what ever makes them money.

 

[MasterCornholio]

I don’t know what people are arguing about here. It’s just like the “ we believe in generations” BS. They believe in what ever makes them money.

I think that's the point behind this. It's what makes them the most money.

 

[Team Andromeda]

Did you feel "ripped off" when you bought $60 games just 5 years ago?

I never paid $60. Back then, online retail would look to knock £10 to 20 off the RRP. Not so these days. Now on the likes of ShopTo, GOW is just £5 cheaper than if buying on the PS Store.
Cheers SONY

Thank GOD for GamePass

 

[nikolino840]

So he is saying that if a game will be on psplus on day one is an horrible game?

"We would like to put our game on psplus"
"Yeah your game sucks so no problem"

 

[systemr123]

Well, just look at the conversarion once GoW Ragnarok drops

Hej, but, but, at least with my GamePass I don’t have to pay for GOW Ragnarok… oh wait….

 

[systemr123]

Did you feel "ripped off" when you bought $60 games just 5 years ago?

I actually feel more ripped off with my current gamepass sub than paying top dollar for new quality content. In my eyes gamepass is going horribly backwards in quality since a while now, although I have to admit Deathloop is a nice to have. Problem is that almost all games on there, and will be, are games you wouldn’t have bought anyway. So you don’t save money on not buying them, but actually pay money to make it possible to play those games.

That’s the issue with gamepass. And if they would day 1 release a lot of quality content, they will never be sustainable because it’d cost way too much money to do that. So only the ms first party titles might be worth the sub, but if those will be regular and high quality games will remain to be seen. Since release of the series x we’ve only seen a terrible Halo, a niche Forza and an even more niche Flight Sim. Forza and Flight Sim are high quality titles I’d say but most people will not play them, or just start them up and play for an hour to never open it up again.

 

[TheGodfather07]

Clearly sony ain't having any problems selling games. Both gt7 and horizon fw were in top 10 for August on npd report. Remember they don't count bundles, which makes it even better for horizon. That's before the holiday boosts too.

We all know ragnarok will have no problem selling millions within the first few days. Sony won't launch on ps plus until they see a big decline in software sales, is the point I'm trying to make.

 

[Lognor]

So now you`re saying GP is definitely comparable to Netflix, but also definitely not to sth like Paramount+ because of "reasons".

You realize that "feelings" and facts are 2 different things and that anything you say is 100% just your personal opinion as long as we don`t see official data from MS?
All, and really all we know is that GP had a great start and that it`s supposedly "sustainable" in PR words. We have no clue as to how exactly the cashflow looks nor how big the actual user base interested in such a service really is nor how the churn rate has looked till now and definitely not how it will look in the future.
Basically you are just pretending to know stuff that no one besides an MS insider breaking NDAs can know, or in other words, you`re a blabbermouth.

Feelings and facts. Gotcha. The only fact you have is your own personal spending behavior. Just because you subscribe for a month and then cancel does not mean that is most other people do. I've provided two sources and could provide more. You've provided nothing.

We know the gp subscriber base is growing. We know that the average person stays subscribed to subscription services for longer than a month, unlike you.

I'm just confused why you're so butt hurt about me pointing out you're in the small minority. You are. It's just something you're going to have to deal with.

 

[Haggard]

I'm just confused why you're so butt hurt about me pointing out you're in the small minority. You are. It's just something you're going to have to deal with.

I´m just confused why you`re so butthurt about me pointing out that you are just pulling all your "facts" out of your ass since no one outside of microsoft actually has facts.

Also "sources"

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Consider Halo: Infinite, Xbox's defacto marquee title for the platform, failed to meet its financial projects because they gave the game away for free on GamePass, is suggests Sony was right and MS was wrong about the capability of sub-services' ability to sustain the development of multi-hundred-million dollar AAA titles.

 

[Lognor]

I´m just confused why you`re so butthurt about me pointing out that you are just pulling all your "facts" out of your ass since no one outside of microsoft actually has facts.

Also "sources"

Some random news article > your anecdotal evidence

Deal with being in that small minority, bro!

 

[fallingdove]

It's funny to watch them cling to the old ways, but honestly if you get enough subscribers, you pay for all your monthly costs, and have extra revenue it becomes a win.

Just too many people don't understand that yet. And it could be an Achilles heel.

With gamepass they can't afford 200 mil games. They don't realize that it's paying the monthly bills and 200 mil over 5 years isn't much with that revenue.

They are just looking at end tally numbers, and trying to perpetuate fear.

No. Your back of napkin math and blind devotion to Xbox don’t negate the massive risks associated with a gaming subscription service.

4 year+ development cycles, insane budgets, ballooning content investments required to maintain your current subscriber base. The time it takes for a gamer to even consume the content.

You don’t know what the profit margins are for GamePass, nor do you have an understanding of their reliance on paying developers large sums of money up front to add their games to the service. There are still many questions that surround gaming subscriptions and it’s why you don’t see every game, every developer jumping at the chance to be a part of this “movement” certain Xbox gamers are so enthusiastic about.

 

[MHubert]

...Maybe you mean "next-gen only game from launch"?

Demon's Souls is PlayStation Studios' only PS5-exclusive game available launch day. (They would have had two if Destruction All-Stars hadn't self-destructed.)

One is still better than the Zero Xbox Game Studio supported their console with, though, and the PS5 "launch period" added in a few more like DAS, R&C Rift Apart, and Returnal, whereas I think Xbox's only homegrown Xbox Series exclusive is still Flight Sim.

Believe what you want in interpreting the quote. Given that it was (or was framed to be) in response to Microsoft's announcement of continued cross-gen support, it doesn't make sense to me why you can't "see" the dots that people connected. And Sony didn't do anything to change the narrative on that statement until September, when its cross-gen plans were added into the fine print after the big PS5 "Future of PlayStation" Showcase.

Read these two statements and say that you took both to describe exactly the same corporate belief. (Ultimately, that's what we ended up with; each console manufacturer produced both exclusives and cross-gen as each game called for, and so far has put little premium on hardware exclusives in the grand scheme of their portfolio.)

To be fair they also had Sackboy but yea I see what you mean. I also hoped for HFW to be next gen exclusive as that would have been banger, but I can't say that I felt Sony were lying to me by having a bunch of these first party exclusives being cross-gen, since they delivered games like Returnal and Rift apart not long after launch. I know MS wouldn't have said what they said if they were able to muster up exclusives come launch, so these statements played out the way I expected.

But fair enough, I guess I shouldn't be totally dismissive of why some people got dissapointed.

 

[akimbo009]

No. Your back of napkin math and blind devotion to Xbox don’t negate the massive risks associated with a gaming subscription service.

4 year+ development cycles, insane budgets, ballooning content investments required to maintain your current subscriber base. The time it takes for a gamer to even consume the content.

You don’t know what the profit margins are for GamePass, nor do you have an understanding of their reliance on paying developers large sums of money up front to add their games to the service. There are still many questions that surround gaming subscriptions and it’s why you don’t see every game, every developer jumping at the chance to be a part of this “movement” certain Xbox gamers are so enthusiastic about.

Or maybe the developers who aren't doing it have specific things around their own business as to why selling through a subscription model doesn't work - not that there's "questions".

It's clear it's a successful enough business for MS, and there's a customer demand for it since it keeps growing.

Different business models can co-exist, ya know since customer choice and preference can be different from one another too.

 

[Haggard]

Some random news article > your anecdotal evidence

Deal with being in that small minority, bro!

I´ve rarely ever seen someone trying so hard to be right with absolutely nothing in hand (even your own "sources" contradict you depending on which Service you randomly decide to align with GP ).
You have no facts and I have no facts, no one outside of MS` management has any, but I seem to be the only one to accept that I´m not some all-knowing psychic.
I´m sorry, but you are just as clueless as I am, mr storyteller.

 

[fallingdove]

Or maybe the developers who aren't doing it have specific things around their own business as to why selling through a subscription model doesn't work - not that there's "questions".

It's clear it's a successful enough business for MS, and there's a customer demand for it since it keeps growing.

Different business models can co-exist, ya know since customer choice and preference can be different from one another too.

“Specific things around their business” sound like “questions”.

MoviePass was a massive success from the standpoint of subscription rate. It was also a massive failure because they couldn’t make the numbers work in the long run.

We don’t know if Xbox is seeing success with GamePass but any reasonable person knows that Microsoft can’t send money trucks to indie studios, and invest billions in acquisition forever, especially if their marquee title (reportedly) failed to realize financial expectations using the GamePass model… there is a limit to relying on loss leaders, even for Microsoft.

 

[InverseAgonist]

“Specific things around their business” sound like “questions”.

MoviePass was a massive success from the standpoint of subscription rate. It was also a massive failure because they couldn’t make the numbers work in the long run.

We don’t know if Xbox is seeing success with GamePass but any reasonable person knows that Microsoft can’t send money trucks to indie studios, and invest billions in acquisition forever, especially if their marquee title (reportedly) failed to realize financial expectations using the GamePass model… there is a limit to relying on loss leaders, even for Microsoft.

I'm forced to agree. You can sustain a model for sometime and shelter losses, but eventually they are responsible to their investors who will demand to see tangible return-on-investment.

 

[CamHostage]

To be fair they also had Sackboy but yea I see what you mean. I also hoped for HFW to be next gen exclusive as that would have been banger, but I can't say that I felt Sony were lying to me by having a bunch of these first party exclusives being cross-gen, since they delivered games like Returnal and Rift apart not long after launch. I know MS wouldn't have said what they said if they were able to muster up exclusives come launch, so these statements played out the way I expected.

But fair enough, I guess I shouldn't be totally dismissive of why some people got dissapointed.

Sackboy was cross-gen.

But I forgot Astro's Playroom (which is easy to forget, but should not ever be forgotten.) So Sony launched 5 PS5 games day-1, 2 exclusives and 3 cross-gen.

From my point of view, I've been happier with the quality of cross-gen (I feel like there's still been nice steps up, plus amazing gains just from the SSD and optimization of the rapid IO) than I have with the exclusive software, which is still not reaching the heights promised in say the "Road to PlayStation" speech or just general next-gen expectations (albeit every gen, people complain that the new games are "not next-gen enough", plus COVID and some hardware approaches have made this gen unique.) So if Ryan hadn't said anything, people would have grumbled about not having enough pure-next-gen exclusives to brag about, but the games would have still spoken for themselves and there would have been no meme or lopsided comparison (Sony has still shipped significantly more exclusive PS5 games and more games made for the best features of the hardware than Microsoft has with just 1 so far, although Microsoft also dropped its 'cross-gen for the first 2 years' policy by not moving forward on the planned Xbox One port of Flight Sim.)

And I get that it's a little unkind of me to tie the "We believe in..." meme onto Shuhei, he is by all accounts a good guy... but, if I worked in that building, I would be telling all my leaders to purge the words "We believe" from their vocabulary. Like, don't even put the Good Charlotte song on the Friday Funday playlist in the kitchen. Do stop belivin' !

 

[Lognor]

I´ve rarely ever seen someone trying so hard to be right with absolutely nothing in hand (even your own "sources" contradict you depending on which Service you randomly decide to align with GP ).
You have no facts and I have no facts, no one outside of MS` management has any, but I seem to be the only one to accept that I´m not some all-knowing psychic.
I´m sorry, but you are just as clueless as I am, mr storyteller.

"Nothing in hand"

Dude, I provided two sources. You've provided exactly zero.

Let me ask again, do you think anything other than a small minority are subscribing to Game Pass for a month, playing the game they're interested in, and then canceling after? That is what you are doing, but based on everything we know about consumer behavior that is not normal. You are not normal. Good for you and your abnormalcy. Enjoy!

 

[Haggard]

"Nothing in hand"

Dude, I provided two sources. You've provided exactly zero.

Your sources aren`t even about GP. They´re not worth the bits they make up in the DB they`re stored in and even if they weren`t just hogwash completely unrelated to GP they`d still contradict you depending on which of the contained stats one arbitrarily attaches to GP. But you know that, which is why you just keep repeating the same nonsense like a broken record as if that would change anything.
Your only source is "bro, trust me"
Didn`t your mom teach you not to lie?

Let me ask again, do you think anything other than a small minority are subscribing to Game Pass for a month, playing the game they're interested in, and then canceling after?

I have no clue and neither do you.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Your sources aren`t worth the bits they make up in the DB they`re stored in and even if they weren`t just hogwash they contradict you depending on which stat one arbitrarily attaches to GP. But you know that, which is why you just keep repeating the same nonsense like a broken record.
Your only source is "bro, trust me"
Didn`t your mom teach you not to lie?

Please continue though. I find this discussion most amusing.

 

[Haggard]

Please continue though. I find this discussion most amusing.

 

[timmyp53]

Self bans need to become a thing again. This thread is terrible.

 

[Haggard]

Self bans need to become a thing again. This thread is terrible.

 

[akimbo009]

“Specific things around their business” sound like “questions”.

MoviePass was a massive success from the standpoint of subscription rate. It was also a massive failure because they couldn’t make the numbers work in the long run.

We don’t know if Xbox is seeing success with GamePass but any reasonable person knows that Microsoft can’t send money trucks to indie studios, and invest billions in acquisition forever, especially if their marquee title (reportedly) failed to realize financial expectations using the GamePass model… there is a limit to relying on loss leaders, even for Microsoft.

Why do you put your mental fantasies out there for all to read?

A/ you don't work in MS finance, so you don't know anything about losses or profits around GP, and more importantly B/ MS just reached into their back pocket and pulled out $100B to fuel this "loss leader". Companies - even MS - don't make those decisions without strong confidence in the business they are growing.

All reality counters your weird narrative which basically summaries up to "anyyyyy day now..., You'll see". It's been 5 years, and it's still here - maybe you'll be right in 5 more years, but you aren't right today.

 

[lukilladog]

I've said it before, I'll say it again. It's leading to a reduction in net consumer spend. That's less money flowing into the the industry overall. From an industry health perspective that's terrible.

The only way this works long term is if volumes drastically increase in order to offset it (as in an increase in the number of core gamers, all of which ideally subscribe to one of these services). This clearly isn't proving to be the case based on console sales numbers, those are shrinking as well.

This is why you see xbox and Phil pushing cloud gaming as aggressively as they are and why they constantly talk about "billions of gamers". If this doesn't play out like they need it to they will actually end up making less money.

Sony following them down this path is foolish, and rightly so, Nintendo can probably see the writing on the wall so are staying well away from it. If unsuccessful the involved parties will need to pivot back towards a traditional purchase led business model, which will prove to be difficult after years of conditioning gamers into believing games aren't worth purchasing.

I don´t think its any different to someone making an online militar style fast paced semi-arcade action shooter and then complaining that his game didn´t sell because the Call of duty model is hurting the industry. Make something that the people want to play, they will buy game pass or not.

 

[SSfox]

- Charisma
- Post photos of food and with their competitors like Phil and Reggie
- Don't care about CoD
- Support indies
- Support japanese devs
- Show his trophy list

I'm with you Yosp is cool, but i hate when people that post food screens in social media during Ramadan

PS: Also still no Muramasa Remaster on PS4/PS5