Airola
Member
Wow
I think I haven't ever dared to not get the serum to Richard and I've played it through 10-20 times.
It's over 20 years and I actully learned about a new thing in the original RE.
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So... Violence in games
- Thread starter Lionel Richie
- Start date
Wow
I think I haven't ever dared to not get the serum to Richard and I've played it through 10-20 times.
It's over 20 years and I actully learned about a new thing in the original RE.
Domisto
Member
That particular animation doesn't fall under torture porn for me. It's a regular death scene. You fall on spikes and die. It seems to be the realism that bothers people because it makes games much more horrific. But it's not any more sadistic than mario. Did they have to put it in there? No. Some people like a bit of gore (me included) but it doesn't automatically become torture porn.
DeleteriousObnoxious
Member
The death scenes in tomb raider feels like a homage to the tomb raider originals very visual "at that time" spike death's.
I disagree how it is being used in the reboots because of the gameplay mechanics not supporting the same sort of horror or have the same sort of impact when its the computer that was cause in your death and not you. Which is the case in reboots you dont control Lara you influence Lara but the computer controls her handling and Decides if you make a jump or not causing This disconnection between character interactions and player input.
I disagree how it is being used in the reboots because of the gameplay mechanics not supporting the same sort of horror or have the same sort of impact when its the computer that was cause in your death and not you. Which is the case in reboots you dont control Lara you influence Lara but the computer controls her handling and Decides if you make a jump or not causing This disconnection between character interactions and player input.
joe_zazen
Member
We are, however, looking at mass media entertainment, not Art...but lets not get into that.
It is not a reflection of life. Violence in real life has consequences and will traumatize witnesses as well as victims. PTSD vets aren't big on the gunfire and explosions in Battlefield, for example.
My take is that competition and simulated/controlled violence is used because that is something that stimulates and attracts adolescent males and therefore those products will sell more than AAA puzzle or platformer games.
Sex isn't used because adolescent males tend to hide their consumption of sexual material and parents do not buy explicit materials for their kids. You cannot watch porn on the bus or in front of your family, but you can kill nazis in high fidelity no prob.
bilderberg
Member
God, the term torture porn is fucking retarded. It's possible to not like violence, and at the same time recognize it isn't "torture porn" or whatever the hell other crazy buzzword people use. All the usual go to examples of violence and blood do nothing for me. What really gets me are broken bones. I'll always look away when snake is putting his arm back in place in MGS3, and oh god that sound. Or the healing animations in Far Cry of your character's thumb bent 90 degrees, ughhhhh fuck. Why does no one every call stuff like that "torture porn"? Ya it makes me uncomfortable, but that's the point. There's something about broken bones that feels far more real to me than some character cartoonishly being impaled.
Calling someone's work "torture porn" steps beyond usual criticism and veer's into "I don't like 'x', therefore no one else should and it shouldn't exist." "I don't know why they continue to do this..." because not everyone is as turned off by it as you are. Deal with it, or do what I do and just avoid things that you may not like.
Calling someone's work "torture porn" steps beyond usual criticism and veer's into "I don't like 'x', therefore no one else should and it shouldn't exist." "I don't know why they continue to do this..." because not everyone is as turned off by it as you are. Deal with it, or do what I do and just avoid things that you may not like.
danielberg
Neophyte
I have no issue with it and considering that gamers arent really known as a actual violent group in real life i think that speaks for itself.
But what i learned is that every generation should have a jack Thompson to laugh at or else vidja journalist seriously pick up his mantle and suddenly run with it for some reason lol
But what i learned is that every generation should have a jack Thompson to laugh at or else vidja journalist seriously pick up his mantle and suddenly run with it for some reason lol
Codes 208
Member
I bet the people calling this toture porn are the same people forgetting dead space exists where you can pretty much die to every concievable brutal manner. Decapitation, lost in space, eviscerated, stabbed, blown up, eaten, crushed, torn apart, disembowled, infected/zombified, hentai'd by gravemind tentacles...
Oh wait, its because shes a girl, isnt it?
Oh wait, its because shes a girl, isnt it?
In a lot of my favorite games my biggest complaints was the "game designer's mandate for combat's necessity". Hereamongst Mass Effect in particular, and I felt games like Deus Ex and Witcher 3 did a fantastic job of not overusing it. In fact, I would love a GTA title in which I can abide by the rules and get through the story without having to assassinate anyone or do any gang crime. As a kid, and probably still today, I loved immersing myself in a GTA game's opening hours by admiring the realism of its world and systems, trying to even drive properly and while this gets super boring after a while and then I break it, the illusion was good and the first time the game forces you to become a ruthless killer something disconnects me from it.
In fact, here's a good video about the subject IMO just because I'm too lazy to do the writeup myself:
In fact, here's a good video about the subject IMO just because I'm too lazy to do the writeup myself:
A.Romero
Member
I don't see how anyone could even suggest that it is because Lara is a woman. Game characters have had gruesome deaths since Prince of Persia. Flashback and Another World are good examples of death animations too.
Ridiculous.
DeleteriousObnoxious
Member
Personally its not because of that she is a girl, but i am really annoyed by how much emphasis there is on making Lara vulnerable when she wasn't like that at all.. in the old games... its clearly a very different lara... further more the sound design was overall making me worried i was watching a porn movie do to how emphasized the sounds were... i guess they are realistic but well, Nathan drake really didn't had the same issue when taking same amount of punches i believe its due to the sound design of the tomb raider reboot games that it has gotten this criticisme of being torture porn, Uncharted has the same amount of damage happening to Nathan drake and you don't call uncharted games for torture porn.. however... i want to say this... I have no issue what so ever with how lara is killing her foes.. and i don't have a problem with how her deaths are more gruesome than the ones we see in uncharted games... This is mostly a thing about how the presentation is being handled and i feel rather uncomfortable listening to the sounds from the Tomb Raider games.. as such i find it close to being torture porn..
That said, and I only saw some of the first Tomb Raider in the rebooted series, there is an emphasis on "look at this Strong Female Protagonist(TM) moan and scream in pain when bad shit happens to hear"
SonicSleuth
Member
Jesus Cripes. This is a discussion we're having in 2018? PLAY CANDY CRUSH if you don't like violence. If you need a Lara Croft style game, play Uncharted, there are like six of those. WHAT YOU WANT SHOULD NOT CONTROL AN INDUSTRY. THERE ARE PLENTY OF OTHER CHOICES.
Calm down.
YES, we should have violence, sex, etc. whatever else in videogames as long as there's a market that wants it, and developers interested in making it.
Personally, I don't necessarily prefer violent games, but I DO appreciate its place in games like TLOU, and I loved that game.
For those offended or somehow negatively affected by some type of content -- don't buy games that contain content you don't like. It's as simple as that. We have an unbelievable of variety of games these days, and limitless resources to learn what sort of content games contain. We can afford to have a wide spectrum of content.
Personally, I don't necessarily prefer violent games, but I DO appreciate its place in games like TLOU, and I loved that game.
For those offended or somehow negatively affected by some type of content -- don't buy games that contain content you don't like. It's as simple as that. We have an unbelievable of variety of games these days, and limitless resources to learn what sort of content games contain. We can afford to have a wide spectrum of content.
Sonny Black
Member
I mean it's simple, you don't like ? don't buy and most importantly, do not complain. Mark Brown is just craving for attention.
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Lionel Richie
Member
That to me is the problem of creating buzzwords that get used on way too many examples with zero regards to actual applicability. It either loses meaning or becomes a thing that should be avoided for no reason. It's possible to make the point that Lara's death scenes are immersion breaking without taking linguistic shortcuts.
Really big fan of that channel, wish he'd upload more.
We as consumers do control the industry. If there's a discussion to be had and collectively we come to some agreements about it, well, at the very least it's good that we talked and all those fuzzy feelings. I love video games. I love talking about video games. I think we all do. Not talking about shit and preemptively coming to any conclusion that suits what we think it's best is how you turn your discussion forum into an endlessly resetting circle jerk.
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
The animation in op does not make any sense to me. She falls down back first, but gets impaled the other way around. How did she turn so quickly while in the air?
Other than that: The obscene amount of violence in games is not news; for some reason virtual brutality was more or less decided to be irrelevant at worst and desirable at best. I do feel that violence that does not serve the gameplay is not OK. But I feel violence contextualised in a poor way as in GTA is worse than non contextualised violence.
Other than that: The obscene amount of violence in games is not news; for some reason virtual brutality was more or less decided to be irrelevant at worst and desirable at best. I do feel that violence that does not serve the gameplay is not OK. But I feel violence contextualised in a poor way as in GTA is worse than non contextualised violence.
Go to http://shamusyoung/twentysidedtale and read some of this essays there. He is more active there.
Lionel Richie
Member
Thank you! I had no idea about this.
Daniel Thomas MacInnes
GAF's Resident Saturn Omnibus
I can't believe we're still having this so-called "debate" in the year 2018. But I can say the same about a great many things. This country always seems to be on the brink of completely collapsing into the 12th Century at any moment. Videogames have had to defend themselves ever since Death Race in 1975, and the topic pops up every few years as a regularly-scheduled scapegoat for various cultural problems.
At this point, it's not worth even trying to have a discussion. You're dealing with gullible rubes who are easily led by the nose by scam artists, carnival barkers, war profiteers, televangelists, corporate raiders and slime merchants. But I'm probably repeating myself here.
In the broadest sense, only three issues are serious enough to care about: global warming, nuclear proliferation and asteroids. Everything else, no matter how terrible or nonsensical, is less than trivial. Videogames will never in a million years make that A-List. So stop worrying about it
At this point, it's not worth even trying to have a discussion. You're dealing with gullible rubes who are easily led by the nose by scam artists, carnival barkers, war profiteers, televangelists, corporate raiders and slime merchants. But I'm probably repeating myself here.
In the broadest sense, only three issues are serious enough to care about: global warming, nuclear proliferation and asteroids. Everything else, no matter how terrible or nonsensical, is less than trivial. Videogames will never in a million years make that A-List. So stop worrying about it
Lionel Richie
Member
Read the thread dude. There are a lot of different opinions on the subject and this isn't a clear black and white scenario since that are some nuances that are worth exploring. Once you move past the point of considering this debate as a moral one and start seeing it as a stylistic one it might make you consider it more fulfilling.
off duty ninja
Member
Reading the term "fucking retarded" to describe a descriptive phrase is like torture porn to me.
I didn't like the death scenes in the TR reboot because it just felt out of place in comparison to the rest of the game, imo. I remember thinking that it would have been a good game to introduce my daughter (6 or 7 at the time) to a cool female character if the deaths weren't so graphic.
Of course there were plenty of other graphic parts as well and looking back it wouldn't have been appropriate more because of some of the story elements than the death scenes. They just felt forced rather than a natural extension of the game to me.
EDIT: In general gore in games doesn't bother me at all but sometimes a game could remove it to widen it's audience.
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