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[AstroLad]

Where are you going to buy this mythical game box that only sells games online? What retailer would carry it for a margin of $1.00 or less per sale?

i dunno, probably at the same place i buy my ipods and computers. who's to say what the margins would be? this is the kind of baseless speculation i was talking about.

 

[Fuzzery]

:lol :lol o gaf

 

[G4life98]

In anything I've read about the issue, most physical retailers are quite worried about digital distribution, hence the threats and coercion of publishers.

as well they should be ...but we are atleast 1 or 2 gens away from it making sense and the way telecoms are dragging their feet with broadband speed increases it could be longer

 

[Grayman]

Dude, that's highway robbery for developers! Do you realize how much you just cost them?! That's $60 that they didn't get because you bought it from your buddy instead of buying it new!

WTF, man. You're easily the biggest hypocrite in the thread.

Everyones principles can be bought. Mine and my new condition media are just worth more than your five dollar example.

Why is buying the game used better than copying it? Because someone at some point paid for it? Because you sleep better at night? Because you put money into one part of the economy that would have been spent elsewhere? It's wrong but all you are doing is helping some asshole make minimum wage.

 

[Fuzzery]

Everyones principles can be bought. Mine and my new condition media are just worth more than your five dollar example.

Why is buying the game used better than copying it? Because someone at some point paid for it? Because you sleep better at night? Because you put money into one part of the economy that would have been spent elsewhere? It's wrong but all you are doing is helping some asshole make minimum wage.

Because it's legal. Done.

 

[f3niks]

as well they should be ...but we are atleast 1 or 2 gens away from it making sense and the way telecoms are dragging their feet with broadband speed increases it could be longer

That's an excellent point. I live in a major city and we still are without FiOs-like speeds. Image trying to download a 4GB game with current DSL/Cable speeds on either PSN or Live. It would take 4 hours minimum to play that brand new game.

 

[Felix Lighter]

Why is buying the game used better than copying it? Because someone at some point paid for it? Because you sleep better at night? Because you put money into one part of the economy that would have been spent elsewhere? It's wrong but all you are doing is helping some asshole make minimum wage.

Why is buying a used car better than grand theft auto?

 

[Version 3.0]

Dave, how much Gamestop stock do you own?

I hate Gamestop, and he's 100% right.

Anyone who disagrees with him is a hypocrit. Unless you've never been given anything second-hand, rented anything, or borrowed a pencil, you're "guilty" of the same thing...because it's the same principle.

If you borrow a pen, you're using something you didn't pay for. So you're ripping off the pen manufacturer.
If you borrow a book from the library, you're ripping off the publisher.
If you buy a chair at a yard sale, you're ripping off La-Z-Boy.

Oh, wait--no, you're not. And you're not ripping off EA if you buy Madden used, either.

Anyone who disagrees with this, I suggest you e-mail Activision your bank account number now, and save the time it takes for the majority of people to become brainwashed enough to pass the "Corporate Rights Bill" that will no doubt be making its way through Congress after a few more generations with no natural selection to keep stupidity at bay.

 

[Gwanatu T]

anyone who supports gamestop with their money should enjoy an eternity in hell.

Why? I can trade crap I don't play anymore, and that's a big thing to have over other places.

 

[Grayman]

Because it's legal. Done.

it's legal but thats it. There is no reason besides the law.

Why is buying a used car better than grand theft auto?

uhhh the stolen car would get you pulled over 100% of the time. Your used car will often need parts from the manufacturer or possibly close partners of theirs. and the main reason is that dave's claims are getting much too large to keep this conversation based in sensible reality.

 

[Version 3.0]

Why is buying the game used better than copying it?

Because only one person is using it at a time. I was waiting for this idiotic argument, but hoping there was nobody around so far gone as to actually post it. I win and lose, all at the same time. Unfortunately, humanity only loses.

 

[Grayman]

Because only one person is using it at a time. I was waiting for this idiotic argument, but hoping there was nobody around so far gone as to actually post it. I win and lose, all at the same time. Unfortunately, humanity only loses.

"and the main reason is that dave's claims are getting much too large to keep this conversation based in sensible reality."

 

[Future]

If I could buy products from the developer new at used prices, then I would do it....as most would. And if I could actually find some of these old games by buying from a store rather than buying used...then I would.

As people said, if game companies want some of these dollars, then they need to adjust their model. Gonna keep your game at $60 a pop? Then I am going to compare it the value of Call of Duty 4 which is also $60. If it doesnt match up then I might buy used, if I buy it at all. Does every dev really think their games are worth the same as everyone elses? Or do they think sales would not improve enough to warrant the price change.

I'm actually surprised that more devs dont try to price more aggressively. This is a competitive business. Sega had the balls to price their football games to $20 back when the license wasnt exclusive, why dont most devs follow suit. Of course even if they did, there would always be a used shop with the game even cheaper, so I suppose you could say the arguement is moot. But really, I know many people that would buy more new games if the price was more reasonable and not actively seek out used games, since they can be a pain in the ass (scratches).

 

[bababa]

Further: You're not obligated to build games for $20 million that sell for $60. You could cut the budget and create something less costly that sells for the same price, thus providing more profit on the publisher/developer side. This is the inherent problem that developers create for themselves. Many are convinced that the only way to make the big dollars is to spend millions first, yet we see games that prove that wrong nearly weekly.

I think you're very right about this point. Game budgets seem to have gotten way too large, and while great games are coming from this I hate to see these games not make enough money. I really wish there was a way for developers to profit from used sales, even though there isn't unless Gamestop throws them a bone. It's tough because one of the largest game retailers to sell your game in trains its employees to tell you not to give the developers that money(by buying new), and to give that money to them instead (by buying used). In Gamestop's defense, they do push preorders (i.e. new sales) like a mother as well. If I was a developer, I would feel like Gamestop was making money off of my hard work and giving me nothing in return with used sales. But, there's nothing really wrong with what they do at all.

 

[Guybrush Threepwood]

I'm more shocked that people are buying used games from Gamestop rather than other places.


STOP BUYING SHIT THERE ASSHOLES!

For most people, GameStop is the only place where you can buy used games for cheap without having to travel far or deal with shipping.

What alternative do you suggest?

 

[Version 3.0]

uhhh the stolen car would get you pulled over 100% of the time. Your used car will often need parts from the manufacturer or possibly close partners of theirs. and the main reason is that dave's claims are getting much too large to keep this conversation based in sensible reality.

Wait, so you think it's okay to buy used ONLY if the used product is guaranteed to break?

I bought a used car and fixed it with used parts. Guess I better go turn myself in!

Grayman, please, I'm seriously begging you: admit that you're just fucking with us. You're not really this dense, right? I'm trying not to be too insulting, but you're making it very, very hard to keep from going off on you personally instead of just ripping apart your incredibly pathetic arguments.

 

[dammitmattt]

Everyones principles can be bought. Mine and my new condition media are just worth more than your five dollar example.

Why is buying the game used better than copying it? Because someone at some point paid for it? Because you sleep better at night? Because you put money into one part of the economy that would have been spent elsewhere? It's wrong but all you are doing is helping some asshole make minimum wage.

The second-hand market is a fundamental part of our economy. Are you really as dumb as you come off sounding?

In Grayman's world, the less affluent would not be able to shop at consignment shops and the Salvation Army, so they would be naked and have no furniture. Oh wait...why would they need furniture if they could not afford their used home. They are renting, you say? What if the original property owner sells the apartment building...the new tenant would not be able to make any money off the renters so no renting for the less affluent. How would they get to work without buying that used car?

I want to live your world, Grayman. I really do.

 

[Grayman]

Wait, so you think it's okay to buy used ONLY if the used product is guaranteed to break?

I bought a used car and fixed it with used parts. Guess I better go turn myself in!

Grayman, please, I'm seriously begging you: admit that you're just fucking with us. You're not really this dense, right? I'm trying not to be too insulting, but you're making it very, very hard to keep from going off on you personally instead of just ripping apart your incredibly pathetic arguments.

Dave being a retard through me off it. I don't take argument classes.

I don't think you should be turning yourself in or owe something to the car manufacturer. The parts were pushing it.

EB/GS have the best business model in the world. In the used product portion they are sitting at the bottom of the supply chain and having consumers but products back into the chain at their level.

If a killing continues to be made off used games i would hope to see the market correct itself if it is broken by mass resale. The price disparity looks really bad for selling/buying used so something may be out of wack.

 

[Grayman]

The second-hand market is a fundamental part of our economy. Are you really as dumb as you come off sounding?

In Grayman's world, the less affluent would not be able to shop at consignment shops and the Salvation Army, so they would be naked and have no furniture. Oh wait...why would they need furniture if they could not afford their used home. They are renting, you say? What if the original property owner sells the apartment building...the new tenant would not be able to make any money off the renters so no renting for the less affluent. How would they get to work without buying that used car?

I want to live your world, Grayman. I really do.

stretch stretch stretch.

games are the only market i see this with. Too much gaf and developer crying i guess. I should change my opinion but I still like new games, movies, books, more than used.

 

[Fuzzery]

it's legal but thats it. There is no reason besides the law.

Laws are put into effect for a reason :lol
What, you want to legalize piracy? Or prohibit second-hand sales?

stretch stretch stretch.

games are the only market i see this with. Too much gaf and developer crying i guess. I should change my opinion but I still like new games, movies, books, more than used.

Good for you. Now, the rest of the people buying from Gamestop obviously see nothing wrong with it. Do you propose to infringe on their freedom?

 

[Grayman]

Laws are put into effect for a reason :lol
What, you want to legalize piracy? Or prohibit second-hand sales?


Good for you. Now, the rest of the people buying from Gamestop obviously see nothing wrong with it. Do you propose to infringe on their freedom?

neither. I was just pointing out that to the people who matter there is no difference.

 

[Grayman]

Laws are put into effect for a reason :lol
What, you want to legalize piracy? Or prohibit second-hand sales?


Good for you. Now, the rest of the people buying from Gamestop obviously see nothing wrong with it. Do you propose to infringe on their freedom?

It would be nice if they cut out gamestop, got more money for themselves and paid less. Or if something gave devs money for their game being played.

 

[dammitmattt]

It would be nice if they cut out gamestop, got more money for themselves and paid less. Or if something gave devs money for their game being played.

Valve did it.

You don't understand the synergy between retail and the publishers. Retail provides a distribution channel, marketing, and handles the sales transactions. In the current world, without retail, games would be a niche market sold only to the hardcore. Do you really want that? Do you?

Also, it seems like you have some confusion regarding the publishers and the developers. Are you arguing that you want Activision or Neversoft to have a bigger cut of the pie? Do you even know?

And at the end of this, your stance all comes down to your preference for new media. Newsflash - most of us are enthusiasts and most of us prefer brand new product. That doesn't mean that the used market shouldn't exist.

 

[Fuzzery]

It would be nice if they cut out gamestop, got more money for themselves and paid less. Or if something gave devs money for their game being played.

Well where are all the convenient ways where people can cut out gamestop? If you think people would pay more for gamestop if there was a feasible alternative, you're deluded.

 

[Version 3.0]

stretch stretch stretch.

games are the only market i see this with. Too much gaf and developer crying i guess. I should change my opinion but I still like new games, movies, books, more than used.

Hey, buy new all you want. I buy most of my games new, at launch, full price, and I have the receipts to prove it. I hate buying used. But it's still my right to do so.

Also...sometimes you have to provide an extreme example to show where a line of reasoning will take you.

 

[Sqorgar]

The way I see it, the argument isn't even about used games. It's about the markup. GameStop buys a game for $20 and sells it for $45. What have they done to earn that extra $25? Certainly not service. Near as I can tell, that $25 buys me about 12 stickers which cannot be removed short of industrial cleaning products. Used games are okay, but GameStop is abusing the consumers. Either they should buy them for more money or sell them for less. But the kinds of profit they make from used games is exploitative. Frankly, the fact that people are willing to sell their games so cheaply (or are willing to pay inflated prices for something that has lost value) are the real culprits. That's right. I'm blaming the people who buy used games and sell used games. Have some standards people.

 

[jetjevons]

Digital distribution will hopefully make all this moot within the decade.

You don't see a lot of pre-owned/pirated Xbox Live Arcade games now, do you?

 

[SonOfABeep]

Nothing would make me happier than to see digital distribution kill GameStop in 10-15 years. Please, let publishers make their full back catalogs available and pass on the savings to me, rather than paying $60 for games, knowing part of it is paying the wages of this dork behind the register offending my sense of smell and sight.

Fuck gamestop. I really don't see why they're not banned like Eidos here. Honestly, they have zero redemptive value.

Okay, so the EB Canada does have some absurd deals with trade ins, but as for the US one, you will never buy something there and not be getting screwed over. Guaranteed.

 

[Dave Long]

Dave being a retard through me off it. I don't take argument classes.

I don't think you should be turning yourself in or owe something to the car manufacturer. The parts were pushing it.

EB/GS have the best business model in the world. In the used product portion they are sitting at the bottom of the supply chain and having consumers but products back into the chain at their level.

If a killing continues to be made off used games i would hope to see the market correct itself if it is broken by mass resale. The price disparity looks really bad for selling/buying used so something may be out of wack.

The only retard in this thread is you.

 

[Version 3.0]

It would be nice if they cut out gamestop, got more money for themselves and paid less. Or if something gave devs money for their game being played.

Without retailers, there'd be no way to sell your product. People think that videogames are starting to get around this--except that they're not, not really. It's just that Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo are becoming the "retailers" with XBLA, PSN, and VC.

If I make a product and ask you to sell it for me, you're doing us both a favor. Why are you assuming the retailer is some sort of parasite? They're running a business, making a lot of money for both themselves and the publisher. Have you ever heard the phrase "Don't judge until you've walked a mile in his shoes"? Well, I'd like to see you run a videogame store and stay in business without used sales. It can be done, but it's a very fine line. And if you do manage it, you'll probably end up paying your employees very poorly, and using part-time only employees to avoid paying benefits.

 

[Kintaro]

The way I see it, the argument isn't even about used games. It's about the markup. GameStop buys a game for $20 and sells it for $45. What have they done to earn that extra $25? Certainly not service. Near as I can tell, that $25 buys me about 12 stickers which cannot be removed short of industrial cleaning products. Used games are okay, but GameStop is abusing the consumers. Either they should buy them for more money or sell them for less. But the kinds of profit they make from used games is exploitative. Frankly, the fact that people are willing to sell their games so cheaply (or are willing to pay inflated prices for something that has lost value) are the real culprits. That's right. I'm blaming the people who buy used games and sell used games. Have some standards people.

It's their store. That's all the reason they need. If someone is willing to buy it at that price used, why not price it that way? That's the excuse people use for $60 games right? "If that's the price people buy it at..." I'm not saying I don't think it's funny to see, but I'm not about to bitch about it. It's business.

Nothing would make me happier than to see digital distribution kill GameStop in 10-15 years. Please, let publishers make their full back catalogs available and pass on the savings to me, rather than paying $60 for games, knowing part of it is paying the wages of this dork behind the register offending my sense of smell and sight.

Same applies here. Do you seriously think that they will "pass on the savings" to you? :lol :lol :lol Yeah right.

 

[bababa]

The way I see it, the argument isn't even about used games. It's about the markup. GameStop buys a game for $20 and sells it for $45. What have they done to earn that extra $25? Certainly not service. Near as I can tell, that $25 buys me about 12 stickers which cannot be removed short of industrial cleaning products. Used games are okay, but GameStop is abusing the consumers. Either they should buy them for more money or sell them for less. But the kinds of profit they make from used games is exploitative. Frankly, the fact that people are willing to sell their games so cheaply (or are willing to pay inflated prices for something that has lost value) are the real culprits. That's right. I'm blaming the people who buy used games and sell used games. Have some standards people.

The long term has to be considered though, and Gamestop has to factor in future price drops. If they don't sell your game or system right away, they could take a loss in the future. Also, people should probably commend them for taking your copy of ESPN NFL 2k5 for anything at all. I doubt they'll ever sell it, but they give you something for it anyway. Many times Gamestop does give some sweet trade bonuses up to %40 max that I've seen.

With that said, Gamestop is a crappy company that treats its employees like crap who tend to treat their customers like crap.

 

[Version 3.0]

The way I see it, the argument isn't even about used games. It's about the markup. GameStop buys a game for $20 and sells it for $45. What have they done to earn that extra $25? Certainly not service. Near as I can tell, that $25 buys me about 12 stickers which cannot be removed short of industrial cleaning products. Used games are okay, but GameStop is abusing the consumers. Either they should buy them for more money or sell them for less. But the kinds of profit they make from used games is exploitative. Frankly, the fact that people are willing to sell their games so cheaply (or are willing to pay inflated prices for something that has lost value) are the real culprits. That's right. I'm blaming the people who buy used games and sell used games. Have some standards people.

I agree, they pay too little and charge too much--in general. But they're buying from willing sellers. Nobody is under any duress to sell.

Again, look at it from their point of view for a moment. You pay $20 for a game, intending to sell it for $45. The next day, Sony puts the game in the Greatest Hits lineup, and now it's only worth $20 new. You're screwed. The most you can get is $15.

Obviously, they're doing a good job of avoiding that, but it's hardly black-and-white.

I hate Gamestop, but I completely understand their business. I don't think very many of the people who bash them can say that.

 

[Grayman]

Valve did it.

You don't understand the synergy between retail and the publishers. Retail provides a distribution channel, marketing, and handles the sales transactions. In the current world, without retail, games would be a niche market sold only to the hardcore. Do you really want that? Do you?

Also, it seems like you have some confusion regarding the publishers and the developers. Are you arguing that you want Activision or Neversoft to have a bigger cut of the pie? Do you even know?

And at the end of this, your stance all comes down to your preference for new media. Newsflash - most of us are enthusiasts and most of us prefer brand new product. That doesn't mean that the used market shouldn't exist.

Both the pub and the developer should get a bigger cut. The residual royalties are more likely to kick in for nervesoft if they sell more games as well as giving them the ability to bargain better terms in future games and activision having more money to give to other developers or for projects that may be riskier or not as impressive financially but have people willing to make them.

Retail, yes. specifically eb? it's probably not necessary to the existence or past growth of gaming. Big box could fill the void couldn't it? and wasn't there an article about one of them considering going into second hand and the console manufacturers or publishers saying "don't do it because it would kill us."

The world is changed fast as far as retail. As an enthusiast I don't care if a new product is only available in one place as long as it is priced right.

Why are you assuming the retailer is some sort of parasite?

Repeatedly buying it back and selling it seems slightly parasitic to me. If they do get generational sales like that then they have made a process for getting money for minimal effort, great for them.

 

[bababa]

Repeatedly buying it back and selling it seems slightly parasitic to me. If they do get generational sales like that then they have made a process for getting money for minimal effort, great for them.

I believe that people have a problem because Gamestop sells both new and used. If they only sold used, there would probably be no problem, or if they had two separate types of stores. Used are seen as leeching from the new sales, since they are placed right next to the new and pushed over the new in the store.

 

[Christine]

Not this shit again.

Look, when I buy a game on disc I'm buying the right to resell the property. I've paid for the right to sell it. If I sell that disc to GameStop they are buying the right to sell it from me.

The developer and publisher DO get a cut. They get it right at the beginning when they sold the right of resale along with the physical product.

Gamestop has the exclusive right to 100% of the revenues from used sales and the developer has no rights to any of that revenue, because GS paid for the rights to that revenue. They bought it. They own it. It's really that simple.

If publishers want to work out ways to bring in revenue from game distribution that don't involve selling me resale rights - that's fine. But I won't pay as much as I would if I were getting the resale rights.

 

[dammitmattt]

Both the pub and the developer should get a bigger cut. The residual royalties are more likely to kick in for nervesoft if they sell more games as well as giving them the ability to bargain better terms in future games and activision having more money to give to other developers or for projects that may be riskier or not as impressive financially but have people willing to make them.

Retail, yes. specifically eb? it's probably not necessary to the existence or past growth of gaming. Big box could fill the void couldn't it? and wasn't there an article about one of them considering going into second hand and the console manufacturers or publishers saying "don't do it because it would kill us."

The world is changed fast as far as retail. As an enthusiast I don't care if a new product is only available in one place as long as it is priced right.

I really don't understand what you are trying to say and what your point is.

You seem to solely have an emotional issue with Gamestop with no facts or logic to back yourself up.

 

[DDayton]

I'm David Dayton, and I'd like to say I support Dave Long's message.

 

[bloodydrake]

I really think the viability of a pure DD world in software is really overstated.
Its the futures being sold to investors. Its great for certain products but its not a catch all. Arcade games great..5 bucks here 5 bucks there..no worries.
60,70,80 dollar games? Not so much.

Next Gen say 2012 everyones gonna be using 50gig blueray as drive medium would be a fair guess. By then Consoles will probably come with 500gig drives standard. 10 games then I have to start deleting them to make room..

Shit wanna play that game again redownload 40gig... DD is not going to replace B&M it will exist in parallel but it won't replace it.
I've said this before about Movies, throw games in the same channel. Who's gonna pay for you to download 200 to 300 Gigs of data a month on standard broadband connection?..You don't think the service providers are going to start putting caps in place.You don't think you'll start to get charged a premium for that much usage?

 

[A Black Falcon]

I really think the viability of a pure DD world in software is really overstated.
Its the futures being sold to investors. Its great for certain products but its not a catch all. Arcade games great..5 bucks here 5 bucks there..no worries.
60,70,80 dollar games? Not so much.

Next Gen say 2012 everyones gonna be using 50gig blueray as drive medium would be a fair guess. By then Consoles will probably come with 500gig drives standard. 10 games then I have to start deleting them to make room..

Shit wanna play that game again redownload 40gig... DD is not going to replace B&M it will exist in parallel but it won't replace it.
I've said this before about Movies, throw games in the same channel. Who's gonna pay for you to download 200 to 300 Gigs of data a month on standard broadband connection?..You don't think the service providers are going to start putting caps in place.You don't think you'll start to get charged a premium for that much usage?

Yeah, I think that this is pretty accurate. Direct download is great, but it can't take over the whole market without a lot more internet infrastructure to handle dramatically higher bandwidth and very, very large hard drives... and those are big hurdles.

 

[shoplifter]

^^^ you can get some *massive* hard drives for $100 if you search around. It won't be a big deal at all to toss a couple terabytes in a console in the next 10 years.

If you consider the sheer number of jobs that would be lost in a digital only market, it's a pretty reasonable thing to be worried about.

Fuck em, they're parasites. Obviously I know you're talking about the distro channels, pressing, etc here as well, but I really don't care.

Sure it's not really going to be feasible until we can get fiber to the home in 50+% of the country, but it *will* be a reality. Gamestop is well within their rights to do what they're doing, but I'm not going to cry over them when they're obsolete.

Besides, think about the greenhouse gases and fuel savings that will occur when no one has to drive to Gamestop! :lol

 

[Wakim]

I've never traded in a game myself, but I'm in a store one day, and the guy in front of me is trading in a recently released game I'm there to pick up. They give him like $15 or $20 in store credit. When my turn comes the clerk puts the hard sell on my to pay $55 for the game used and save $5.

I don't buy used games unless I have to, and this example of the store hosing those kids without is why I never will (unless I can't find it new).

 

[Guybrush Threepwood]

Dave Long is the hero of this thread.

If you don't want to buy used games because they hurt the poor publishers, then go right ahead. Just don't ruin the fun for the rest of us.

I shouldn't have to search through a bunch of big retail stores to find a new copy of some obscure game when I can drive down the street to a GameStop (or go to some other used game store if I feel like traveling) and buy it there, and for much less than it would have cost new.

 

[DeadTrees]

No mention that GameStop ended the sale of used PC games over a year ago? Shouldn't we have seen an increase in new PC game sales by now?

 

[My6cats]

I fully agree that rental services or services that otherwise require constant authentication are not ideal. Steam has some issues, but in my experience its offline mode works quite well, not to mention the fact that you can mod files, etc. I think and hope that as we move forward these issues will be ironed out and more care will be taken to allow people to keep their content across multiple generations. Now sure "lol they'd rather you just re-buy ten times!" but I do think that the consumer pushback is there and publishers are starting to get the idea of how this is important to consumers and how it affects their purchasing decisions.

I perosnally hate the DRM issues with XBLA. Iam sure the average person would too. I had to get a 2nd x-box 360 but my few arcade games are stuck with the other license. I want to be ab;e to play the games offlin and online. I feel cheated currently, and I won't buy another arcade game till the issue is resolved. Buying a game form the store is another matter. I won it, and I can do what ever i want. I could care less about cutting out the middleman and helping the publishers or coders. Also I like the sells that I can find with stores. DD woulnd't offer that.

 

[Rand al Thor 19]

It's a good thing we got smart people like Dave Long in here otherwise we would have to listen to developers and their fanyboy suck ups whine and cry about something that NOBODY else gets in the U.S: A cut of used sales. Bitter tears..... Bitter tears.

 

[bababa]

It's a good thing we got smart people like Dave Long in here otherwise we would have to listen to developers and their fanyboy suck ups whine and cry about something that NOBODY else gets in the U.S: A cut of used sales. Bitter tears..... Bitter tears.

Gamestop may be in the right (and make sure you read that I said that part), but it's not crazy to say that used sales being pushed over new sales has an impact on new sales. It's not whining, it's a valid complaint. Why the developer hate? More profit to the developers means more and better games.

 

[Chris FOM]

The biggest problem with used games isn't that they exist. First sale doctrine and consumer rights absolutely set up that once we buy something we have the right to do whatever we want with it. It's why I won't buy DD software: I don't own my copy. However, the big problem with Gamestop's business, and the one thing that sets gaming apart from all other media sales, is the HUGE conflict of interest that arises when the industry's biggest retailer of new material is shoving people towards used software instead. Nowhere but in Gamestop do you se new and used titles set next to each other as coequals. Sure you can buy used books, but you go to a used bookstore. Barnes and Noble doesn't sell used books, and Half Price doesn't sell new ones. Car dealerships have new and used lots, and they're clearly separated and often have separate offices. Same with music or movies. Sure there are independent stores that sell new and used both, but there are very few large chains that sell both products coequally (Hasting's is the only one that immediately sprints to mind).

Having your largest retailer also sell games second-hand and actively steer customers away from new games and towards used ones creates a very very different situation. It's a blatant conflict of interest on Gamestops part, and I can certainly sympathize with publisher's that feel as if their market channel is directly working against them.

 

[SCReuter]

I'll quit gaming the day it goes pure digital. The whole idea frightens me, to be honest.

But yeah, Dave Long wins this thread.

 

[dammitmattt]

I've never traded in a game myself, but I'm in a store one day, and the guy in front of me is trading in a recently released game I'm there to pick up. They give him like $15 or $20 in store credit. When my turn comes the clerk puts the hard sell on my to pay $55 for the game used and save $5.

I don't buy used games unless I have to, and this example of the store hosing those kids without is why I never will (unless I can't find it new).

You don't get it. There are many issues with your "logic":

1. The guy made a monetary compromise for convenience. He got his money right then and there on the spot without having to market the game himself. We make this choice every day. Milk is much cheaper at Wal-Mart but you'll still pay twice as much to run into the convenience store for milk when that's all you need. I pay someone to wash my car because it's worth $20 to save myself the hassle, hard work, and time.

2. EB might be selling that game for $55 today, but it could easily be selling for $35 the next week. If it continues to sit on shelves, that same game will go down to $25, at which time EB won't even make any money on that title after factoring in the operational / inventory carrying /etc. costs. That's why the average margin on used games is not 175%, as you would think from your example. They take a risk to carry this game in a market dominated by new releases where they aren't even sure when (or if) they're ever going to sell your game.

3. This can't be stated enough, but you do know that stores cost money to run, right?