Support NeoGAF

[ViewtifulJC]

Super Mario 3D World is legit as fuck. Its like EAD Tokyo did Super Mario Bros 3(D) in 2013.

 

[TheOGB]

Sold.

 

[Spinluck]

Posted this in another thread:

3D World is as good as I thought it would be.

4 players is chaotic as fuck though. I feel like it was made to be a 1-2 payer game at times. Still though, it was crazy fun either way. The imagination in these games always amazes me.-


Bravo Nintendo. I stopped at world 3. Gonna play more tomorrow.

 

[Sciz]

SonicGAF's Song of the Day - #59

Song: Waking Up
Game: Shadow the Hedgehog
Composition: Julien-K
Vocals: Ryan Shuck

I really liked the vibe Julien-K had going for them, like a synthier Type O Negative. They accomplished an awful lot with nothing but a good driving beat, lyrics that flow smoothly, and one or two synth lines. And like most songs that are essentially 8-bit in their complexity, this one's darned catchy.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Using the Anihawk scale:

SMG2(10/10) > SM3DW(9/10) > SMG(8/10)

Will have to write some lengthy impressions about it, but yeah...its good

and now...Zelda

 

[AniHawk]

Using the Anihawk scale:

SMG2(10/10) > SM3DW(9/10) > SMG(8/10)

Will have to write some lengthy impressions about it, but yeah...its good

and now...Zelda

hm. those are the two scores i would actually give the smg games. 3d world is pretty fucking good despite starting off easier than galaxy.

OH MY GOD I WOKE UP ON SATURDAY MORNING AND I SHOULD PLAY A MARIO GAME

last time did this was super mario 64.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Its one of those games that just gets progressively better and better as it goes along, right up into the best 3D Mario final boss yet. And then it gets better(and harder) after that, especially if you're like me and get all 3 green stars and swear by Mario/no White Tanooki suit. I look back and think about how many fun great ideas they have that you'll see maybe twice, its kinda crazy.

EAD Tokyo is really good.

 

[Tizoc]

I am envious of all of you able to play dat 3D World. It's gonna be a nominee for my GotY even though I won't be playing anytime soon. Just from what I've seen of the gameplay makes it worth of it.

Anyways DOCTOR WHO 50TH ANN. IN LESS THAN AN HOUR OMGAFKLDGHSDFGNKT6LKJEHRGPOIYUDFS98HYEPOE5IYJ;PLKJNELWKNLDFSKJG;OJSDF;GKLD;FLKGH;DSKLFH!!!!11111

 

[Nocturnowl]

But the thing about ALBW is that it doesn't merely scratch the ALttP itch. There are a lot of references to other games in the series, and I really really couldn't help but to be reminded slightly of Ocarina of Time at the very beginning of it, to be honest. There are a little bit of callbacks to various games in the series that I can't help but to be enthused when I see something or hear a familiar audio cue, etc. It looks super-ugly, sure, but it feels really fast, nicely-controlled, nicely-paced, etc. enough for me to actually overlook that.

There was one strong OoT reference about midway through the game that got me good, I like how a few themes and jingle across the series have made the trip to this game as well.

Even the UI is making me happy.

...I'm having fun with it. Screw Nocturnowl.*

Yeah and...HEY, I never said I wasn't enjoying it. I was getting my one lamentation out of the way because the rest is hard to find fault with so far.

Using the Anihawk scale:

SMG2(10/10) > SM3DW(9/10) > SMG(8/10)

Will have to write some lengthy impressions about it, but yeah...its good

and now...Zelda

This is a slight turnaround from the earlier impressions where Galaxy 1 was still better, I'm to assume it steps up something fierce late or post game.

In an attempt to sustain myself until next week I've got a multiplayer NSMBU run going, now I understand why there's so many item boxes and lives in this game, it all makes so much more sense in MP. Rayman handles its multiplayer better overall, when you dick each other over in Rayman its almost playful with the lack of a death penalty. In Mario power ups and lives are lost thus the cycle of creative revenge is put into motion, it's simultaneously the greatest strength and weakness of the mode.

 

[CrimsonCrescendo]

Goddamn, $1 per minute of internet on this ship. Looks like I won't be on GAF after all for the next week.

 

[Noi]

Tearaway is gud you guys

 

[Dark Schala]

Tearaway is fucking awesome.

Responding to other stuff later, but I just had to say that too. Holy shit.

Edit: Okay. Basic impressions is that this is not like LBP at all. I don't like LBP because there's always more emphasis placed on Play/Create/Share and presentation above all as opposed to basic gameplay mechanics and the nature/momentum of the character's speed or jumps.

It's very nicely executed in terms of its level design. It does the thing where you're presented with an initial situation, makes you figure it out, and then tests your abilities with various obstructions and issues in the level design for you to overcome without outright telling you what to do, which is what a lot of platformers have issues with these days. Mm's own other platformers have this issue, so it seems like they've learned a lot from LBP. There isn't that much of an emphasis on Play/Create/Share and the game emphasizes the platformer aspect instead, as it should. The presentation is certainly there, but again, that isn't the focus-- again, curious because it's Mm. You are also encouraged to replay various areas because there are so many secrets in the game. If you're not exploring and looking around while you're playing, you can miss a lot of stuff. Don't just keep traveling on the path they lay out for you because there's a lot of stuff to look around for. It consistently incorporates and introduces new mechanics at a fair rate and utterly encourages you to interact with your game environment to find out every single secret they've included. It's a very decent exploratory 3D platformer. Even collectathoning isn't necessarily forced onto the player.

It's exactly what the Vita needed in order to showcase its features as a game system, rear touchpad included. After a little bit, it begins to feel very natural, more natural than LBP Vita made it feel. The second bit where you're tapping on the rear touchpad to jump better is very nicely executed because the jumps don't feel stupid. If anything, it almost feels like Mm should just concentrate on 3D platformers as opposed to 2D Create-a-Platformers. The music is nicely composed and adequately used in the game, and the NPC characters don't feel like they get in the way most of the time since they aren't being narrated half the time. I don't feel like the Vita inputs with the camera/touchpad feel forced and hackneyed (which is actually what I felt of LBP Vita despite feeling as though that game used the Vita's features in an okay sort of way), so that's a huge step-up. It feels far more cohesively-developed than any other Media Molecule game to date. I know that isn't saying much, especially if you don't like LBP just like me, but it's absolutely true.

The minuses I can take away now is that the camera can sometimes be locked, and that it does take time to at least unlock jump. Combat is also fairly shallow, but I think more of the point is platform around with the techniques given to you.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Super Mario 3D World Impressions:

Super Mario Bros 3 represents an end-point for the classic Mario platformer mold. A fully-formed package of sharp level design and well-tuned play controls in a compact package, it must have left Nintendo in a odd predicament. How do you follow up something that feels like the culmination of the series? "By going bigger!", apparently, as Super Mario World sacrificed the tight play controls and level structure for larger spaces to accommodate aimless keyhunts, and with a hilariously overpowered Cape in tow. Super Mario 64 continued this new style, giving you large playspaces to explore, with the occasional SMB3-esque obstacle course in the Bowser levels.

Super Mario 3D World, then, is the alternate universe sequel to SMB3. Instead of abandoning the focused platforming game design of SMB3, Nintendo built on it, bringing its spirit into the 3rd dimension.

Like SMB3, SM3DW is filled with over a hundred short, clever levels, each one often revolving around a new gimmick or idea. The levels are separated into "worlds" with overarching comforting "themes", but I put those into quotations because they don't really matter. As if EAD Tokyo had a kind of game developer ADHD and soon as they pick something up, they're off to the next wacky thing. The level of creativity on display is staggering; one level has you infiltrating a Japanese pagoda fortress, complete with Goomba disguise. Another, a top-down segment where you utilize your fireballs in Zelda-esque puzzles(and its a nice showcase for the fantastic lighting system). The next one, you're zipping around skinny pathways narrowly dodging spike logs with honed precision, and then the next one have you exploring a sprawling savana, running after SM64's bunnies and wishing there was more time on the clock. Like the Angry Sun and Kuribo's Shoe from SMB3, there are so many ideas here that you'll see once, maybe twice, then never again.

One of my favorite of these new additions is the Double Cherry, a SMB2 reference in aesthetic if not in function. Grab one, Mario gets a clone, one that's controlled with the exact same controls as the original. You can have three, four, five or more Marios all running along, throwing out that much more firepower and covering that much more ground for collectibles. Some of the secrets of these levels only open up with a minimum amount of Marios, so its a fun challenge trying to get all of yourselves to the finish line.

Another big favorite is the much hyped Cat Suit, which may just be my new favorite Mario power-up. Nintendo's track record on new power-ups for our favorite plumber isn't that great; sometimes they're TOO good like the Cape in SMW, sometimes they just kinda stink like Bee Mario's lack of offensive abilities or Tiny Mario being effectively a power-down. Cat Suit Mario is not only stupidly adorable, he makes you feel powerful without breaking the entire level. He can climb up vertical walls, but only for a certain amount of time, and he's got a great dive attack, but you can only do it once without touching the ground. Like the best power-ups, it opens up new areas and gives you an advantage against certain enemies, but it doesn't completely trivialize the game, and it stinks when you lose it.

Even ideas that aren't "new" to the franchise are used to excellent effect. The Giant Mushroom from NSMB, kinda awkward and actually sucky in many areas, has specific, empowering appearances here; its never been used better. The Bullies from SM64 are repurposed in challenging clusters late in the game. With no Wiimote to shake, Flip-Swip platforms from Galaxy return, now activated with every jump, forcing you to think a few steps ahead of your next leap. The entire history of the Super Mario franchise is fair game here, polished and refined to fit into a huge adventure that feels like a celebration of its legacy.

And its never looked better. While New Super Mario Bros U was the first game in the franchise to enter HD, no offense to the NSMB team, but Super Mario 3D World feels like the true arrival. Spooky manors, fiery fortresses, poisonous swamps and snow-covered landscapes; the amount of visual themes in SM3DW is incredible, each one filled with characterful touches and a wonderful new lighting system. The tight focused level design and isometric camera means anything that isn't needed on the screen just isn't there, giving each level a framed feel dripping wet with a level designer's touch.

And the smaller size of levels doesn't mean there are no secrets to find. Every level has three Green stars, a stamp, and other hidden collectibles locked away in difference nooks and crannies of the level, encouraging exploration and skillful usage of all of Mario's moves and various power-ups. Its a giant toybox, waiting for you to find all its gags, and rewarded the ones who get the most of each stage with challenging post-game worlds filled with all-new content and harder remixed variants of the main game's areas.

Super Mario 3D World is pure fun; a colorful collection of platforming levels bursting at the seams with creativity and polish, backed by tight controls and clean, crisp visuals. Looking back at the many stage tropes and ideas it tackles, there's no better evidence of Mario's status as the perennial gaming icon, able to slip into so many roles and feel perfectly naturally. It doesn't have Galaxy's bombast, but it wasn't really trying to, and when you're riding inside a Kurubo Iceskate, dodging Goombas and listening to a joyous winter wonderland track, its hard to care about the differences. Super Mario 3D World is EAD Tokyo doing Super Mario Bros 3(D) in 2013, the 3D sequel to SMB3 Nintendo never gave us. Until now.

9/10

 

[Nocturnowl]

Double the impressions, oh my word, well I can't add to 3D world *grumble* but I can add to the other.

Tearaway has been good fun so far, LBP may very well have been my disappointment of the generation in a sense so I'm happy to see Media Molecule step away from that series and bring their creativity elsewhere. Tearaway scratches that old itch, the N64/PS1 3D collectathon itch though its very much its own thing on the whole.
Combining standard control of the main character alongside you being able to alter some aspects of the environment through touch control is a neat little way of adding to the whole traversal aspect even if it can be a bit fiddly at times. This is one of those cases where the whole presentation is actually making a lot of difference for me, the game had me stepping on and off the corner of a bit of paper so I can see it flatten and coil back up being wowed by the sheer papery goodness.
The game is gimmicky as fuck but in a good way, the camera makes me an omnipotent bloke in the sun where I feel obligated to pull stupid faces when focused on (hmm...note to self, mustn't play in public).

 

[Aeana]

Tearaway is fucking awesome.

Responding to other stuff later, but I just had to say that too. Holy shit.

Edit: Okay. Basic impressions is that this is not like LBP at all. I don't like LBP because there's always more emphasis placed on Play/Create/Share and presentation above all as opposed to basic gameplay mechanics and the nature/momentum of the character's speed or jumps.

It's very nicely executed in terms of its level design. It does the thing where you're presented with an initial situation, makes you figure it out, and then tests your abilities with various obstructions and issues in the level design for you to overcome without outright telling you what to do, which is what a lot of platformers have issues with these days. Mm's own other platformers have this issue, so it seems like they've learned a lot from LBP. There isn't that much of an emphasis on Play/Create/Share and the game emphasizes the platformer aspect instead, as it should. The presentation is certainly there, but again, that isn't the focus-- again, curious because it's Mm. You are also encouraged to replay various areas because there are so many secrets in the game. If you're not exploring and looking around while you're playing, you can miss a lot of stuff. Don't just keep traveling on the path they lay out for you because there's a lot of stuff to look around for. It consistently incorporates and introduces new mechanics at a fair rate and utterly encourages you to interact with your game environment to find out every single secret they've included. It's a very decent exploratory 3D platformer. Even collectathoning isn't necessarily forced onto the player.

It's exactly what the Vita needed in order to showcase its features as a game system, rear touchpad included. After a little bit, it begins to feel very natural, more natural than LBP Vita made it feel. The second bit where you're tapping on the rear touchpad to jump better is very nicely executed because the jumps don't feel stupid. If anything, it almost feels like Mm should just concentrate on 3D platformers as opposed to 2D Create-a-Platformers. The music is nicely composed and adequately used in the game, and the NPC characters don't feel like they get in the way most of the time since they aren't being narrated half the time. I don't feel like the Vita inputs with the camera/touchpad feel forced and hackneyed (which is actually what I felt of LBP Vita despite feeling as though that game used the Vita's features in an okay sort of way), so that's a huge step-up. It feels far more cohesively-developed than any other Media Molecule game to date. I know that isn't saying much, especially if you don't like LBP just like me, but it's absolutely true.

The minuses I can take away now is that the camera can sometimes be locked, and that it does take time to at least unlock jump. Combat is also fairly shallow, but I think more of the point is platform around with the techniques given to you.

The fact that you posted this here, in a community thread dedicated to Sonic, before you posted it in the official thread dedicated to that game is problematic. :\ This is the kind of thing that we don't want happening with community threads. We want people to participate in the forum, not relegate their entire presence into one thread like it's a subforum. Sorry for kind of singling you out, since it seems to be a very common practice in community threads (this one and others).

 

[ViewtifulJC]

I was gonna just gloat in your face, but actually I'm just excited for you to play it, Owl. It does all those good platforming game design things we wish other games do more often. There are no text bubbles in the game explaining your abilities, the level design just naturally teaches the player how to use it. There are a lot of cleverly hidden secrets, but they're all "fair". The green stars all have a very distinctive sound when you're nearby, so you know when you're close. There's one really fun one that's BEHIND the starting point like DKC2, but its even easier to miss because its the first "OMG ONLY 100 SECONDS ON THE CLOCK" stages, so your first instinct is to just start running forward. BUT if you stop and listen, you can hear that green star, and when you turn around...there it is!

 

[Dark Schala]

The fact that you posted this here, in a community thread dedicated to Sonic, before you posted it in the official thread dedicated to that game is problematic. :\ This is the kind of thing that we don't want happening with community threads. We want people to participate in the forum, not relegate their entire presence into one thread like it's a subforum. Sorry for kind of singling you out, since it seems to be a very common practice in community threads (this one and others).

No, it's something we do have to address in general and I get why you did comment on my post in particular. It is common in almost every community thread I frequent, simply because the community threads do act as a general area for like-minded people to congregate without any sort of judgement being affixed to you.

But essentially, a lot of people post impressions in the community threads or OT relegated to the community subforum because a lot of the OTs on gaming side can be difficult to post in if you are a detractor from the popular opinion, which is something I've brought up time and time again. Given that many participants in this thread post in platformer threads in general, we do congregate and talk about various platformers or other games that we are interested in with a focus on Sonic most of the time, so going off-track isn't necessarily out of bounds for this thread.

Impressions are still cross-posted to various threads, but I did feel like the original direction for the community threads, outside of establishing an IRC room for people to talk in and to discuss various aspects for a series that could be done without in the OTs/discussion threads on the gaming side, was to cultivate and gather a like-minded group of people to discuss various things they are interested in.

It's something I seemed to notice in a lot of community threads, not just this one.

But the best way to remedy this sort of behaviour is to reduce the hugbox ideal of OTs on gaming side, and a lot of other factors that seemed to crop up within the last two years or so. It's not something that is openly discussed, but given that a lot of the community threads (or the more popular ones) seemed to get more traffic in the recent year or so simply because of the tone of the gaming side and the growing tendency for these threads to get off-topic more frequently, I do wonder if it speaks to the tone on gaming side more recently.

 

[Aeana]

Thanks, Schala. This is the kind of discussion that needs to take place. There are definitely things that the staff should be doing better to make the forum more friendly for people so they don't feel so inclined to hole up in community threads. If anybody has anything else to add, I'd like to hear it.

Impressions are still cross-posted to various threads, but I did feel like the original direction for the community threads, outside of establishing an IRC room for people to talk in and to discuss various aspects for a series that could be done without in the OTs/discussion threads on the gaming side, was to cultivate and gather a like-minded group of people to discuss various things they are interested in.

This actually was not the intent of community threads at all. They were supposed to be a place where people could gather and talk about that subject without having a specific thread to talk about them in the gaming forum.

 

[AniHawk]

The fact that you posted this here, in a community thread dedicated to Sonic, before you posted it in the official thread dedicated to that game is problematic. :\ This is the kind of thing that we don't want happening with community threads. We want people to participate in the forum, not relegate their entire presence into one thread like it's a subforum. Sorry for kind of singling you out, since it seems to be a very common practice in community threads (this one and others).

what would be the remedy to this? what if a bunch of posters just wanted to talk about a bunch of stuff they like? is it okay to just make a platformers/rpg fan thread in community and have everyone congregate there? how broad does a topic need to be?

i don't mean to be confrontational. i just thought the idea of a community thread was for a community of people to get together and talk about stuff. this is a bunch of fans of sonic the hedgehog games talking about stuff- and maybe it's not all about sonic all the time, but that was one of the things that they all have in common.

i do participate in official threads a lot, but most of the time people are either at different points of a game and once you post something, it gets lost in the shuffle. i don't post huge walls of text for fun (correction: just for fun). it's okay if nobody is reading or responding, but i do look for conversation, and i know i'll get it here at least.

 

[Aeana]

what would be the remedy to this? what if a bunch of posters just wanted to talk about a bunch of stuff they like? is it okay to just make a platformers/rpg fan thread in community and have everyone congregate there? how broad does a topic need to be?

i don't mean to be confrontational. i just thought the idea of a community thread was for a community of people to get together and talk about stuff. this is a bunch of fans of sonic the hedgehog games talking about stuff- and maybe it's not all about sonic all the time, but that was one of the things that they all have in common.

i do participate in official threads a lot, but most of the time people are either at different points of a game and once you post something, it gets lost in the shuffle. i don't post huge walls of text for fun (correction: just for fun). it's okay if nobody is reading or responding, but i do look for conversation, and i know i'll get it here at least.

Well, now that you're the second person to express this, I really must wonder why that is. It seems pretty obvious to me that the point of a "Sonic the Hedgehog community thread" is to have a place to always talk about Sonic the Hedgehog. In the off-topic community forum, we have a thread dedicated to politics discussion. It isn't expected that people can go in there and talk to their politics friends about their crappy day at school or what they had for dinner, or about how much this season of American Idol sucks, but for some reason people really, really want to do that in gaming community threads.

 

[Quackula]

Not that I'm particularly active in here either, but I'd generally rather post in a smaller community with a handful of active regulars than a super huge one with thousands of participants at any given time... The latter, your posts tend to get lost in the rabble and discussion is almost always taken over by a handful of controversial users.

Yeah, I'm probably "part of the problem" feeling that way. I like the community threads over here the way they are, I'd probably just plain post less if that changed.

 

[AniHawk]

Well, now that you're the second person to express this, I really must wonder why that is. It seems pretty obvious to me that the point of a "Sonic the Hedgehog community thread" is to have a place to always talk about Sonic the Hedgehog. In the off-topic community forum, we have a thread dedicated to politics discussion. It isn't expected that people can go in there and talk to their politics friends about their crappy day at school or what they had for dinner, or about how much this season of American Idol sucks, but for some reason people really, really want to do that in gaming community threads.

as someone who browses/participates in it, poligaf is similar yet different. poligaf is a constantly moving thing. there's always news happening all the time. and people there do post about their home life, although usually it's related to politics and how their friends and family said something they didn't agree with and are lamenting how uninformed they are. and then people in that community often offer advice to help communicate to those people better.

i'm sort of a casual sonic fan. i don't read the comics, watch the cartoons, or buy all the games, but i've always been interested in the series. i posted here quite a bit about lost world, and so did most people when it came out. it's not a day-to-day thing that there's sonic news, and it's hard to stop organic discussion once it gets going off on tangents.

seriously, would it be fair if a bunch of the same people started posting here, or something like it, once this hit its post limit?

 

[Shouta]

i don't mean to be confrontational. i just thought the idea of a community thread was for a community of people to get together and talk about stuff. this is a bunch of fans of sonic the hedgehog games talking about stuff- and maybe it's not all about sonic all the time, but that was one of the things that they all have in common.

The community threads are for discussion related to that game/series, to congregate and discuss that topic. It's providing a location where those talks can occur. As such, they should focus on that topic, in this case Sonic.Some wandering from the topic is certainly understandable, as is the case with any thread. However, it needs to stay on topic most of the time. Otherwise, what's the point of a thread about Sonic games if there's no actual talk about Sonic. Poor guy doesn't need to be forgotten in his own topic.

As for a general platformer thread, I'd say it would be a good place to talk about it in the general sense,

 

[PhantomOfTheKnight]

Not that I'm particularly active in here either, but I'd generally rather post in a smaller community with a handful of active regulars than a super huge one with thousands of participants at any given time... The latter, your posts tend to get lost in the rabble and discussion is almost always taken over by a handful of controversial users.

Yeah, I'm probably "part of the problem" feeling that way. I like the community threads over here the way they are, I'd probably just plain post less if that changed.

Yea, I'm gonna go with this as well.

 

[Stumpokapow]

I am really sympathetic. On the one hand, I pop into a Sonic thread and see a bunch of great discussion about platformers and RPGs and think "jesus, shouldn't this be in the rest of GAF instead of a thread about Sonic with a small community?", but on the other hand I know the reason why you guys post it in here, which is that you feel that if you posted elsewhere, it wouldn't be a bunch of great discussion.

Some of the problem is, legitimately, unavoidable in my opinion and I suspect Aeana is disappointed that I'd concede defeat. Small groups of people are different than large groups of people and GAF is now a very very very very very large group of people. We have fewer people from the industry posting today in part because it is more of a mass audience thing. GAF is enormous. I don't think there's any winding back the clock to the size it was when it was 2007-2009 or whatever. I think the overall body of GAF's membership isn't where it needs to be for that. And I don't think it's as simple as banning 75,000 people, because often times it's not as simple as "good poster" versus "bad poster" but how a poster is incentivized to behave. I dunno. Also we'd just get 75,000 re-regs anyway.

I totally understand the temptation of finding an oasis where the group of people who self-select for posting are better than the site average... or even if they're not, that they're less confrontational... or even if they're not, that the pace of posting is slower so the impact of a bad reply is less severe than in a fast-moving thread where a high effort post can get drowned by a tide of shit.

But to some extent, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. If all the good posters leave or voluntarily segregate themselves, the problem gets worse, which leads to more departures or self-segregation. There are lots of good posters who get stressed or bitter and it sucks. So if you find yourself withdrawing from the site as a whole, I can't blame you and I can't expect you "spend time getting stressed with idiots", but also it sucks for the rest of us that we're deprived of good conversation.

I have to be honest, I'm not really a Sonic fan. I like a few of them. I dislike a few of them. I don't feel strongly. So all this to say that it's not likely I would enter into or participate in this thread. And that's fine, because you guys deserve a spot to discuss Sonic without me lowering the quality of discussion with my misplaced opinions. But the bummer is that I don't get to discuss platformers with Anihawk or Dark Schala or whatever, when I'd like to.

To some extent this is something I do too. Often times when I finish a currently active game on PC, I post my impressions in the Steam thread rather than in the game's thread. Both are on-topic so it's not like I'm posting Typing of the Dead impressions in a Final Fantasy thread, but it still sucks that I feel like I get a better discussion in the Steam thread and so the game's thread gets worse.

Having said all this, we do as a site want to say that the role of community threads is supposed to be about the thing in the topic. Like, Persona community isn't intended to be a community of people brought together by Persona talking about anything, but rather a thread intended for discussing Persona stuff even when there's no new release or active topic. Ditto here with Sonic. So I hope you get that I am emphatically understanding why what happens happens and I have no illusion that it's possible to magically fix the problems that cause you guys to do it, but just hoping that maybe it's possible to inject some of the better discussion from here elsewhere. We don't want people to bunker down. In some communities we've had to intervene because the bunker mentality gets so bad.

In return, what I can do for you is hopefully if you report posts to me, I can respond to them and try to make sure they get moderation focus. I can delete posts to improve the signal-to-noise ratio in threads where no one is doing bannable stuff but there's just too many posts. I can ban people who are being actively disruptive. Almost all of us follow @NeoGAFWorstPosts in part because it draws our attention towards garbage that needs to be responded to. Of course that's an unofficial account. The fastest way you can report posts is PM them to any active mod. Not just me, I have the most PMs of anyone on the site :/ Your primary targets are: Aeana, charlequin, Kabouter, Nirolak, myself, Y2Kev, duckroll, Mumei. I say this because we're the most active, but any moderator who is online can help and if you know another mod better than us contact them by all means. And the smoother you can make the process the faster we can respond. If it's an insult, literally just send a PM that says "insults" and then the URL of the post. If it's a tldr, literally just send a PM that says "tldr" and then the URL of the post. You can, I believe, send to three recipients at once, so send to three mods at once. That's the fastest way to triage stuff to us.

I wish we had like two dozen more moderators. I don't have two dozen names that I'd suggest (another vicious circle--if good posters post less or hide, we can't identify them as good to help recruit them to improve things!) but I wish we had twice as many person-hours to prune the crap.

what would be the remedy to this? what if a bunch of posters just wanted to talk about a bunch of stuff they like? is it okay to just make a platformers/rpg fan thread in community and have everyone congregate there? how broad does a topic need to be?

It's a tough call. On the one hand, an RPG fan thread would be a better fit for discussing RPGs than a Sonic thread so that's a net positive. And it incorporates the community more broadly. On the other hand, it's not clear that would solve your problem and the suggestion still sort of brings us closer to having subforums (a community thread is basically a kind of sub-forum just with less organization right?). I can't speak for Aeana and how she'd judge this issue, it's a tough one.

I think obviously how we look at this kind of stuff evolves as the site gets bigger. 25,000 members is very different than 100,000 is very different than 200,000. It's sort of amazing that the site has the same number of forums as it did when it was a quarter of the size. This kind of thing is an artifact of not being more flexible in this regard.

 

[Dark Schala]

AniHawk just took the words out of my mouth as I was about to suggest the platforming thread he linked to.

A lot of things do get lost in the shuffle. Whenever people ask, "Is this game good or not?" in an OT, you know you've posted impressions on a page before, but they're completely lost in the pages and pages that cropped up before. Whenever you would like to discuss various aspects of a platformer, whether or not it features cohesive level design, linking level maps, discussing momentum of the character, etc. people just don't care and your post gets lost in all of the game talk, whether it's mostly, "I'm on 4-6 and this game is amazing" or "man I can't get over how shit this game is, I'm dropping it".

I know that some people say that the solution is to add more moderators, but I feel as though this is not the solution at all. It's the atmosphere and tone of the entire gaming side and its various OTs that need to change. When I used to read GAF back in 2007 and then going onwards, despite the fact that things did get toxic in terms of discussions sometimes, discussion was actually decent because people focused on various things to discuss. That might have been because the board itself was substantially smaller than it is today, and you knew everyone and their posting styles back then.

My posting amount in OTs and Gaming Side may have fallen in recent months, and I told you why in private, but I did enjoy posting on the forum at large a lot before I stopped posting as often because people just wanted to discuss games and various aspects of those games.

I love typing up lengthy and detailed impressions and posts explaining why I like or dislike a game so much. I don't like so much that they end up getting ignored or lost in the shuffle of a thread or barely addressed or discussed at all because people may not like what I have to say, whether I'm positive or negative about a game. This, for example, was something that completely irked me because it not only criticized my posting style, but was also an invitation to essentially shut up for having a different opinion from everyone else. Discussion in a lot of OTs lately seems to get sidetracked by console warrior bullshit, discussing the nature of the companies who publish/develop the game and whether or not said companies will fail, among other types of industry politic discussions.

I just want to talk about video games at times. Not talk about game industry politics in these threads.

This actually was not the intent of community threads at all. They were supposed to be a place where people could gather and talk about that subject without having a specific thread to talk about them in the gaming forum.

I see. Though going from the Persona/Pokemon/Sonic community threads and other community threads in OT in general, it does seem like the idea's evolved from the original intent. I may be a little biased in my approach, but despite the community threads acting as slight megathreads, I don't think a lot of people would want that aspect of it to change. I know there was an issue with the Halo community thread a few months ago and it being closed and moved to OT partially because of something like this (ie: going off-track often), but for the most part, we do keep on-track in here.

If you wanted to move this thread to Off-Topic, you could, but that would be just as odd because we do consistently talk about the games, level design, music, development issues, comic books, anime, the upcoming TV show, etc. in here, too. May not be as frequent, but if we talked about Sonic constantly, this thread would drop like a rock, just like the Zelda Community thread, and the SMT/FF community threads sometimes do.

And well, it's kind of obvious why people talk about their routines in gaming community threads. Three years of observing the Pokemon Community Thread and Halo Community Thread somewhat points to the direction that they're friends for the most part.

But hey, if you wanted to close this thread and let us revamp it, in a new thread (and we're almost at OT3 already, so...), go ahead.

One final thing, though.

It says something when I get messages and discussions going on with forum lurkers saying they like the behaviour and mentality of the community threads as opposed to the site proper.

 

[BHZ Mayor]

Another thing is that Community threads tend to be more pleasant and welcoming, even during disagreements, than the main forums in general (This goes for Gaming and OT). So a lot of times, for me at least, I'd rather post in the Community threads period I participate in instead of dealing with unpleasant posters on the main sides. And I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way, judging be the amount of "avoid Gaming Side/OT" sentiments expressed around the site.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Another thing is that Community threads tend to be more pleasant and welcoming, even during disagreements, than the main forums in general (This goes for Gaming and OT). So a lot of times, for me at least, I'd rather post in the Community threads period I participate in instead of dealing with unpleasant posters on the main sides. And I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way, judging be the amount of "avoid Gaming Side/OT" sentiments expressed around the site.

Yes, I know, I totally agree. It's really unfortunate, and it's a self-fulfilling prophecy, and we would really urge you guys to try to rely on us to help you make the main forums a better place, but I totally get why you feel that way.

(I probably won't post in here again but I'll be reading further replies and feel free to PM me if you have any input on this. I might not answer your PM

that's just since 2010--but I will read it)

 

[Aeana]

Stump said a lot of what I wanted to say. I want to make it clear that I'm not coming in here saying "all of you need to change, immediately, and stop talking about things that aren't Sonic-related." The issue we're having is that we are losing all of our best posters to community threads and the main forum is suffering for it. It's not an easy problem to fix, and it's something that the staff has to work harder on. Believe me, we are well aware of why you might want to avoid the rest of the forum, but in doing so, it makes the rest of the forum even worse. That's why I think it's important for us to gather your feedback so that we can make it so that people don't want to hole up in community threads all the time.

 

[Rikkun]

I rarely post in here, but I check almost daily and read some posts, or listen to the song of the day.

I usually don't write because I feel my English Writing Techniques are kinda poor and I can't express my thoughts at the fullest. Sometimes I can't even understand what I'm reading, lol, but the few times I posted I got a response. You won't get this in the Gaming Forum, not usually at least. These weeks are also the worst for this, in 10 days we got 2 new console, a new Zelda and a new 3D Mario, the main page flushes everything away.

I also have to say I prefer GAF on slow days, when I get to read a Plok or a Sonic 3 thread or something like that, but I might be old.

Stumpokapow got it tho, so I'll follow your discussion and see where it ends. GAF needs your posts too.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Hey, I come back and there's a lot of red names, all because of my big dumb post

Hmm, I blame...Professor Beef

 

[Razzer]

About the issue with OTs that Schala brought up. I wonder if it would be possible to implement some kind of temporary 'discussion point' feature to threads. Say someone makes an interesting point about a game that warrants in-depth discussion, if enough people tag a post as worthy of being a discussion point, then that post gets stickied at the top of each page so that people know what the general topic for the next couple of pages would be. After a few hours or some other time the post automatically unstickies and discussion moves on. This could help to stop good posts getting lost in the crowd so much and bring attention to good discussion. Of course you may think this goes against the ethic of the site but I just wanna help solve this conundrum.

 

[AniHawk]

i probably come off hypocritical like i believe i'm a voice of reason, but a lot of times the normal gaming threads bring out the worst in me. i have fun just kinda messing around and acting all crazy (although the one thing i've never ever tried to do is insult people either directly or generalize groups [politics brings out the absolute worst in me and that's where i fail at this]). here, i can sorta sit down and collect my thoughts and actually have a discussion.

there's a lot of kneejerk reaction that happens. and man, i'm so guilty of that, but sometimes it gets really out of hand, like last night's thread with an unfortunate title but the expression that one thing made a shitty time in his life better, and he wanted to share that sentiment.

a couple years ago, there was a fantastic mass effect 2 spoilers thread that was generally pleasant to post in. i remember mostly everyone genuinely enjoying the game, but also having fun poking at its various plot holes. there was good discussion to be had. i had the bright idea to make a thread that could have used some more time in the incubator and had to ask dragona to close it because it turned into a pile-on. even after i made a fairly long post describing only the things i liked about the thing, the shit just kept rolling. that left an impression. there was no discussion, or attempt to engage me in what i was saying- just 'no you're wrong' or bringing up other games that had nothing to do with what i was discussing in order to discredit my opinion.

 

[Aeana]

i probably come off hypocritical like i believe i'm a voice of reason, but a lot of times the normal gaming threads bring out the worst in me. i have fun just kinda messing around and acting all crazy (although the one thing i've never ever tried to do is insult people either directly or generalize groups [politics brings out the absolute worst in me and that's where i fail at this]). here, i can sorta sit down and collect my thoughts and actually have a discussion.

there's a lot of kneejerk reaction that happens. and man, i'm so guilty of that, but sometimes it gets really out of hand, like last night's thread with an unfortunate title but the expression that one thing made a shitty time in his life better, and he wanted to share that sentiment.

a couple years ago, there was a fantastic mass effect 2 spoilers thread that was generally pleasant to post in. i remember mostly everyone genuinely enjoying the game, but also having fun poking at its various plot holes. there was good discussion to be had. i had the bright idea to make a thread that could have used some more time in the incubator and had to ask dragona to close it because it turned into a pile-on. even after i made a fairly long post describing only the things i liked about the thing, the shit just kept rolling. that left an impression. there was no discussion, or attempt to engage me in what i was saying- just 'no you're wrong' or bringing up other games that had nothing to do with what i was discussing in order to discredit my opinion.

I know exactly what you mean, and this is probably the #1 thing on my list to address somehow. It has become the norm for people to be unwilling to put any faith in their fellow posters, immediately approaching them as someone with an agenda, or a troll. The resulting discussion is absolute garbage.

 

[Dark Schala]

About the issue with OTs that Schala brought up. I wonder if it would be possible to implement some kind of temporary 'discussion point' feature to threads. Say someone makes an interesting point about a game that warrants in-depth discussion, if enough people tag a post as worthy of being a discussion point, then that post gets stickied at the top of each page so that people know what the general topic for the next couple of pages would be. After a few hours or some other time the post automatically unstickies and discussion moves on. This could help to stop good posts getting lost in the crowd so much and bring attention to good discussion. Of course you may think this goes against the ethic of the site but I just wanna help solve this conundrum.

But on the other hand, that system could easily be abused by people who would probably select it to say, "Oh man, this post sucks. Look at the sheer audacity of this post." Or even then, it could just be a gif that people would quote over and over again, which seems to happen in recent months.

I do think it'd be hard to implement it here, though, given the amount of poster who would just like to talk about game progress as opposed to aspect/design discussion.

 

[Seven Force]

I'm going to be honest, sometimes I'll look at the conversations going on this this thread and wonder "Wow, I wonder why Gaming side can't have intelligent and well thought out discussions like this on a regular basis?" and then I'll pop into a thread on Gaming side and be instantly reminded why that probably won't happen anytime. Like Stump said, a big part of it is that there's a larger volume of users on the site than there's ever been before.

This isn't me generalizing posters on Gaming side or anything, because I do believe that the same kind of civilized activity that happens in Community can happen on Gaming side too, I just have no idea how I could be a part of actually helping to bring about that.

 

[Razzer]

But on the other hand, that system could easily be abused by people who would probably select it to say, "Oh man, this post sucks. Look at the sheer audacity of this post." Or even then, it could just be a gif that people would quote over and over again, which seems to happen in recent months.

I do think it'd be hard to implement it here, though, given the amount of poster who would just like to talk about game progress as opposed to aspect/design discussion.

Yeah, I had thought about this which is why my version of it probably wouldn't work. But maybe if it was refined into something similar with mechanics that prevented such abuse, it could work? I dunno, solving problems is hard man.

Edit: Maybe labelling the tag as 'a good post' or something could help. The association might make people less inclined to highlight bad posts, even though some would just ignore that.

 

[Rikkun]

But on the other hand, that system could easily be abused by people who would probably select it to say, "Oh man, this post sucks. Look at the sheer audacity of this post." Or even then, it could just be a gif that people would quote over and over again, which seems to happen in recent months.

I do think it'd be hard to implement it here, though, given the amount of poster who would just like to talk about game progress as opposed to aspect/design discussion.

Banderas GIFs on top of every thread.


Do other communities have the same problem? The Persona one seems more on topic, but yeah they aren't on the front page that much. What about splitting multiplayer games' threads from the SP games? Or.. making a thread in the community explaining the problem and asking the users what would they do. Everyone seems more quiet on this side, it could output some ideas..

 

[Aeana]

Banderas GIFs on top of every thread.


Do other communities have the same problem? The Persona one seems more on topic, but yeah they aren't on the front page that much. What about splitting multiplayer games' threads from the SP games? Or.. making a thread in the community explaining the problem and asking the users what would they do. Everyone seems more quiet on this side, it could output some ideas..

I have had to have a similar talk with the Persona thread in the past. It's a problem in several others as well.

 

[Quackula]

The big problems with gaming side and such seem to me to largely be inherent to any forum as active and with as much volume as this one.

An elegant solution wouldn't be easy, but I find it commendable that the mods here are actively looking for one. Nobody can say that GAF has poor moderation.

...in the mean time please don't take away our community fun times

 

[Dark Schala]

I know exactly what you mean, and this is probably the #1 thing on my list to address somehow. It has become the norm for people to be unwilling to put any faith in their fellow posters, immediately approaching them as someone with an agenda, or a troll. The resulting discussion is absolute garbage.

It's something I started to notice even back when I posted in the Theatrhythm thread and expressed my misgivings for the formula that the game had, and yet some people were so vehemently defensive towards the utter notion that someone may not be enjoying the game as much as they were that maybe just maybe that person might have an agenda or might be trolling everyone else because it's unfathomable that opinions other than their own my be just as valid. I know ShockingAlberto had the same exact problem. I know he keeps an eye on this thread as he posts in here sometimes, so he might pop in to discuss how he feels about everything since I know he's been having the same issues that we're expressing.

If everyone had the same opinion about something, then what would the point be about discussion and debate? And that's the issue. People just want to throw their two cents into the conversation and leave immediately without sticking around to pick up the pieces and defending their stance or maybe even learning from someone else's stance. That's why I frown so much on list threads.

Stump said a lot of what I wanted to say. I want to make it clear that I'm not coming in here saying "all of you need to change, immediately, and stop talking about things that aren't Sonic-related." The issue we're having is that we are losing all of our best posters to community threads and the main forum is suffering for it. It's not an easy problem to fix, and it's something that the staff has to work harder on. Believe me, we are well aware of why you might want to avoid the rest of the forum, but in doing so, it makes the rest of the forum even worse. That's why I think it's important for us to gather your feedback so that we can make it so that people don't want to hole up in community threads all the time.

No, we get that. It was a good starting point and I'm glad the discussion is finally taking place. Some of us did feel like we couldn't talk about this stuff in the open.

I also have to say I prefer GAF on slow days, when I get to read a Plok or a Sonic 3 thread or something like that, but I might be old.

Stumpokapow got it tho, so I'll follow your discussion and see where it ends. GAF needs your posts too.

Actually, I think Stump tried to remedy this sort of thing a few months ago with a "what's your favourite Chrono Trigger era thread" to draw attention away from news topics at times, but it inevitably didn't get as much traffic as the news threads. But as long as people are discussing various posts in those sorts of threads, I enjoy them a lot.

I feel the same way. That Sonic 3 thread we had a few days ago on gaming side? That was very nice, because people were talking about the new find in Ice Cap Zone's music, the development cycle for Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles, and other aspects of the game. We need that sort of discussion and threads on GAF sometimes, because it gets tiresome to wade through hardware discussion and company discussion and it gets lost in the flow that this forum is ultimately a games forum.

Another issue that I saw people in this thread bringing up in the past few months was the retirement of the NeoGAF User Reviews Thread. A lot of us don't have a lot of spaces to post final impressions, and if we posted them in OTs, they'd get lost and we'd probably forget about them. I'd love to revive that thread somehow because it was fairly decent.

 

[Shouta]

Banderas GIFs on top of every thread.


Do other communities have the same problem? The Persona one seems more on topic, but yeah they aren't on the front page that much. What about splitting multiplayer games' threads from the SP games? Or.. making a thread in the community explaining the problem and asking the users what would they do. Everyone seems more quiet on this side, it could output some ideas..

It differs from topic to topic. Though, from what I've noticed, the more general threads remain on topic because there's a wider range of things to discuss like in the FGC Weekly thread and Manga. Smaller topics have less to talk about and can go off-track a bit easier. Again, it's not really necessary to keep on topic all the time. Things wander a bit sometimes and that's fine. It just needs to be focused when you can. Directing more poignant discussion to the appropriate places so it might attract more good discussion is kind of the point that we want to get to stick.

 

[Rikkun]

I have had to have a similar talk with the Persona thread in the past. It's a problem in several others as well.

Oh, I see.
I'm sure you'll find the best way out of this. Thanks for taking the time to address the "problem" and hearing our voices!

The big problems with gaming side and such seem to me to largely be inherent to any forum as active and with as much volume as this one.

An elegant solution wouldn't be easy, but I find it commendable that the mods here are actively looking for one. Nobody can say that GAF has poor moderation.

...in the mean time please don't take away our community fun times

Basically all this. The main forum is also a gigantic news hub, and it feels like it is sometimes, opposed to being a discussion place.

It's something I started to notice even back when I posted in the Theatrhythm thread and expressed my misgivings for the formula that the game had, and yet some people were so vehemently defensive towards the utter notion that someone may not be enjoying the game as much as they were that maybe just maybe that person might have an agenda or might be trolling everyone else because it's unfathomable that opinions other than their own my be just as valid. I know ShockingAlberto had the same exact problem. I know he keeps an eye on this thread as he posts in here sometimes, so he might pop in to discuss how he feels about everything since I know he's been having the same issues that we're expressing.

If everyone had the same opinion about something, then what would the point be about discussion and debate? And that's the issue. People just want to throw their two cents into the conversation and leave immediately without sticking around to pick up the pieces and defending their stance or maybe even learning from someone else's stance. That's why I frown so much on list threads.

Actually, I think Stump tried to remedy this sort of thing a few months ago with a "what's your favourite Chrono Trigger era thread" to draw attention away from news topics at times, but it inevitably didn't get as much traffic as the news threads. But as long as people are discussing various posts in those sorts of threads, I enjoy them a lot.

I feel the same way. That Sonic 3 thread we had a few days ago on gaming side? That was very nice, because people were talking about the new find in Ice Cap Zone's music, the development cycle for Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles, and other aspects of the game. We need that sort of discussion and threads on GAF sometimes, because it gets tiresome to wade through hardware discussion and company discussion and it gets lost in the flow that this forum is ultimately a games forum.

Another issue that I saw people in this thread bringing up in the past few months was the retirement of the NeoGAF User Reviews Thread. A lot of us don't have a lot of spaces to post final impressions, and if we posted them in OTs, they'd get lost and we'd probably forget about them. I'd love to revive that thread somehow because it was fairly decent.

Yeah I was thinking of that Sonic 3 thread too. It had many posters saying just "Sonic 3 > Sonic 2" or viceversa, but overall it's been entertaining.

EDIT:

It differs from topic to topic. Though, from what I've noticed, the more general threads remain on topic because there's a wider range of things to discuss like in the FGC Weekly thread and Manga. Smaller topics have less to talk about and can go off-track a bit easier. Again, it's not really necessary to keep on topic all the time. Things wander a bit sometimes and that's fine. It just needs to be focused when you can. Directing more poignant discussion to the appropriate places so it might attract more good discussion is kind of the point that we want to get to stick.

Ah, got it. Yeah, FootyGAF is always talking about football or FIFA or whatever, because there's so much happening every day.
Sonic comes out every 2 years, and it's usually underwhelming *sigh*

 

[BlackJace]

I think it's because we hold each other to higher standard to discuss stuff. Since there are only a handful of posters that frequent here, we don't really feel the need to one up each other or say inflammatory things to garner attention. No "dat first post" or things like that.

I'm guilty of coming here and posting completely off topic things like asking everyone how their day went, or some shit, but I think that's just because I've become more comfortable here.

I think we all want to say what we say here on Gaming, but the chaotic nature of it lately stifles that kind of discourse.

Poor Aquamarine makes amazing data threads that only make it to like, 20 posts before dying. Same with Arc Christelle too.

I'd imagine many of the "tomes" that get dropped here would suffer the same fate.

 

[Quackula]

Basically all this. The main forum is also a gigantic news hub, and it feels like it is sometimes, opposed to being a discussion place.

I wonder if making a separate "gaming news" subforum would be helpful? Has that been considered?

 

[Seven Force]

Same with Arc Christelle too.

Yeah, if there's one poster I can think of that has that attempted multiple times to extend some of the discussion had in here out into Gaming, it's him. Shame his threads never get too much traffic, they're usually good for provoking thoughtful discussion.

 

[Dark Schala]

The fact that Arc Christelle's first thread got dropped like a rock to the point where I couldn't find it when I wanted to post something relevant is insulting, even if it focused on the "video games as art" discussion.

That was a decent thread with respect to game design, which was the point of it since he made it knowing that some people in this thread make their own games and we talk about the complexity of game design and balancing all the time in here. Yet the first and only post went along the lines of, "putting GAF on a pedestal is probably a bad idea".

Yet when he made a subsequent thread--that inevitably turned into a list thread--about girls in video games, the post count shot through the roof.

Edit:

Basically all this. The main forum is also a gigantic news hub, and it feels like it is sometimes, opposed to being a discussion place.

Ever since OTs got moved to community after a month, I've been feeling that way. I think that was in 2011.

I might be overstepping my bounds, but I always felt like that was a terrible decision. I still feel like it's a terrible decision, even if the intent was to clear up all the clutter on Gaming Side (and go figure, it's still called the Gaming Forum despite not feeling like it). All of the discussion about video games is inevitably left in community unless it's the flavour of the month. That's why you have LTTP threads that could be posts in OTs instead, or threads about whether or not someone should get a game when really the best idea is to look for the game's OT with Search (and again, that's why I always thought the User Reviews Thread was a good idea).

That's why you have LTTP threads now that basically amount to, "Hey guys I just got the game, I'm taking it out of the shrinkwrap now. No I haven't played it yet." This is a post that belongs in an OT. Not an LTTP thread.

Staggered (ie: by a month or two) releases in the past year also demonstrate that simply moving OTs to Community probably wouldn't be beneficial. Maybe moving the thread back from Community would be a better idea for those staggered releases because it clears up some thread clutter. I don't know. I just feel like moving OTs to Community inevitably took away from the games discussion just a little bit, and we're finally seeing the results of that now.

 

[Hot Coldman]

I'd say having intelligent conversation on this forum at all is a victory. Compartmentalising it seems like pushing your luck...

 

[Nocturnowl]

My brain seems to have gone walkabouts, I know there's something I want to say on this current topic but I can't settle on anything. Well most of my more pressing issues have been brought up by others already so Sonic Gaf does what I don't.

Still looking from the other perspective of this discussion I can think of a number of times this year when I've had posts that I put some time into ready to roll in a thread, i'm hovering over "submit reply" but reconsider based on a variety of possible factors such as the current state of the thread or if I feel like i'm going to get bombarded for going against the flow, yeah I guess this doesn't help the situation either.

 

[Shadow Hog]

Brief change-of-topic: apparently Marble Zone's music was hiding in Sonic [1] for the Master System's soundtrack this entire time, and we've only just noticed it.

The guy who found it's checked; there aren't any other hidden songs, although there appears to be evidence that some other songs were hastily overwritten.

Now, to address the subject that brought all the mods in:

I wonder if making a separate "gaming news" subforum would be helpful? Has that been considered?

I was gonna suggest that, too. If the issue is that people would rather flock to news articles instead of discussion threads, drowning the latter out, perhaps splitting them up would make that a bit easier.

However, I'm also not sure further breaking the forums up is the correct way to go... It might just make everyone flock to the "Gaming News" forum and leave "Gaming Discussion" completely behind. And even then, there's no guarantees that "Gaming Discussion" would magically have more intelligent discussion after the fact; it'd still probably be filled with "first post wins" or "NINTENDOOMED" or "damn this Sony bias on GAF" or AntonioBanderasInReverse.GIF or similar things detrimental to the conversation.

It does seem like topics about older games, provided people notice them, tend to attract the more civilized discussions, I've noticed. Most of RetroGAF (the Genesis/Mega Drive thread, the SNES thread, the Upscaler/RGB thread, etc) are similarly just there to express their love of games - no tawdry take thats to be seen, usually. They do tend to stay more on topic than SonicGAF does, admittedly...