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[Flabagast]

I disagree, returnal and Helldivers 2 have been their best games this gen and they are not from their big first party developers.

Ratchet and Spider man 2 were completely forgettable.

Their other games are PS4 games.

I really don't understand how people can defend their output this generation. It would be a nightmare if they had no competition. They released one game last year, and nothing is slated from them for this year as of yet. Last of us 2 remake, which is a 4 year old game.....just aint it. Go back through Sonys first party releases throughout the history of them being in games, theyve never had release schedules this light.

This is why MS blundered so much

Sony first party output this gen is pretty pathetic, so there was a lot of room to attract the attention towards premium and daring exclusives by MS. Unfortunately they did the opposite

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

Expect more from the market leader of high end consoles.


PC hardware and prebuilt gaming desktops are seeing a very strong start to the year while console sales are down across the board. I don't think Sony will sell more than 20 million this year. I do see more users moving to PC.

We can expect more, but we should also be realistic... or at least fair. reading a lot of comments it almost sounds as if Sony has not released anything at all or brought any exclusives to the platform. When if you just took a cursory look at their output, since the start of this gen, and not just output but quality first and third-party exclusive output. Its damn right impressive. Especially compared to the competition.

And as I said, in the first 6 months of this year alone we are getting like 4 games. 3 of which you can only play on the PlayStation.

And why I don't buy into that whole user "moving to PC" narrative, is that there is no way to actually measure that. PC sales can improve and that would not necessarily be at the expense of console sales, why? Because they are not priced the same to begin with. A console like prebuilt PC, if you can even find it, would still cost at least $750-$800. That is still a good $300 to $450 more expensive than a PS5. And that is not even taking into account that a PS5 price drop may even happen this year, alongside the introduction of a PS5pro. I just don't buy into the idea that there are a lot of people who are going to spend $800 because they don't want to buy a $500 PS5. And even if there are, I would say there are significantly more people waiting to get a PS5 for $399 and under than there are trying to buy a gaming PC for $800 and over that "would have bought a PS5 but it's not powerful enough".

Lastly, the PS5 doesn't even need to do over 20M this year. Even if it lands at 19M that would be great too. I think people don't get that the 21M+ PS5s sold last year, is the most amount of PS consoles sold in a calendar year in like... ever. And the thing is still $500. In hindsight, it's no wonder Sony never bothered to actually officially drop the price.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

Spiderman 2 at over 10 million? But Twitter told me Spiderman 2 failed and made 0 money!

At least it has broken even

 

[HeWhoWalks]

We can expect more, but we should also be realistic... or at least fair. reading a lot of comments it almost sounds as if Sony has not released anything at all or brought any exclusives to the platform. When if you just took a cursory look at their output, since the start of this gen, and not just output but quality first and third-party exclusive output. Its damn right impressive. Especially compared to the competition.

And as I said, in the first 6 months of this year alone we are getting like 4 games. 3 of which you can only play on the PlayStation.

And why I don't buy into that whole user "moving to PC" narrative, is that there is no way to actually measure that. PC sales can improve and that would not necessarily be at the expense of console sales, why? Because they are not priced the same to begin with. A console like prebuilt PC, if you can even find it, would still cost at least $750-$800. That is still a good $300 to $450 more expensive than a PS5. And that is not even taking into account that a PS5 price drop may even happen this year, alongside the introduction of a PS5pro. I just don't buy into the idea that there are a lot of people who are going to spend $800 because they don't want to buy a $500 PS5. And even if there are, I would say there are significantly more people waiting to get a PS5 for $399 and under than there are trying to buy a gaming PC for $800 and over that "would have bought a PS5 but it's not powerful enough".

Lastly, the PS5 doesn't even need to do over 20M this year. Even if it lands at 19M that would be great too. I think people don't get that the 21M+ PS5s sold last year, is the most amount of PS consoles sold in a calendar year in like... ever. And the thing is still $500. In hindsight, it's no wonder Sony never bothered to actually officially drop the price.

Yeah, reading some comments/posts has been an experience.

"dang, they won't hit that 25M unit mark, it's only going to be around 20-21 million". - I mean, let that sink in for a minute. That amount in a calendar year for ANY console is ridiculous. That they didn't hit such a historic figure is hardly a big deal.

"Spider-Man 2 underperformed/made no money" - Insomniac: "no, it hasn't/yes it made money".

Also, people really do let history elude them. The PS4's biggest games in 2016 (the equivalent for 2023 for the PS5) were The Last Guardian, Ratchet & Clank and Uncharted 4. Are we sincerely going to argue that those games were eons bigger than Final Fantasy AND Spider-Man?

Biggest PS4 games in 2015? Bloodborne, The Order, and Until Dawn vs 2022 God of War, GT7, Horizon: Forbidden West

Of course, this doesn't include a lot of smaller games for both devices, but you catch my drift. By comparison, PS5 has been alright. 2024 looks a little drier on their blockbuster front, but not the exclusive front. A console's biggest wealth is in what quality it provides that cannot be acquired elsewhere, not who's making it. Final Fantasy XVI, to this point, may as well be a 1st Party game. Until it hits anything other than PC, that's what it'll be treated like.

 

[DenchDeckard]

We can expect more, but we should also be realistic... or at least fair. reading a lot of comments it almost sounds as if Sony has not released anything at all or brought any exclusives to the platform. When if you just took a cursory look at their output, since the start of this gen, and not just output but quality first and third-party exclusive output. Its damn right impressive. Especially compared to the competition.

And as I said, in the first 6 months of this year alone we are getting like 4 games. 3 of which you can only play on the PlayStation.

And why I don't buy into that whole user "moving to PC" narrative, is that there is no way to actually measure that. PC sales can improve and that would not necessarily be at the expense of console sales, why? Because they are not priced the same to begin with. A console like prebuilt PC, if you can even find it, would still cost at least $750-$800. That is still a good $300 to $450 more expensive than a PS5. And that is not even taking into account that a PS5 price drop may even happen this year, alongside the introduction of a PS5pro. I just don't buy into the idea that there are a lot of people who are going to spend $800 because they don't want to buy a $500 PS5. And even if there are, I would say there are significantly more people waiting to get a PS5 for $399 and under than there are trying to buy a gaming PC for $800 and over that "would have bought a PS5 but it's not powerful enough".

Lastly, the PS5 doesn't even need to do over 20M this year. Even if it lands at 19M that would be great too. I think people don't get that the 21M+ PS5s sold last year, is the most amount of PS consoles sold in a calendar year in like... ever. And the thing is still $500. In hindsight, it's no wonder Sony never bothered to actually officially drop the price.

All fair points. I think it is worth noting that Sony were the key driver for these big AAA movie like games, which no one has been able to deliver on due to the cost and time to create them. Now Sony is struggling to deliver these types of games consistently. They are obviously not sustainable and now the fanbase is paying for it. A lot less games, that take years to make and dont last very long.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

All fair points. I think it is worth noting that Sony were the key driver for these big AAA movie like games, which no one has been able to deliver on due to the cost and time to create them. Now Sony is struggling to deliver these types of games consistently. They are obviously not sustainable and now the fanbase is paying for it. A lot less games, that take years to make and dont last very long.

A lot less games?

Look at my comparison above, particularly for the "movie-like" games you mentioned. It isn't a lot less. And their fanbase is paying for their console, much like Nintendo's are for the Switch — which is what happens when your machine is successful. That they missed a top target and will still sell 20+ million consoles for the year is, to put it aptly, incredible.

 

[Del_X]

Operating income down by 26%. That’s massive and a lot more than I expected.

 

[DenchDeckard]

A lot less games?

Look at my comparison above, particularly for the "movie-like" games you mentioned. It isn't a lot less. And their fanbase is paying for their console, much like Nintendo's are for the Switch — which is what happens when your machine is successful. That they missed a top target and will still sell 20+ million consoles for the year is, to put it aptly, incredible.

Just look at Sonys first party release schedule since Playstation launched and its just nose dived in the last few years.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

Just look at Sonys first party release schedule since Playstation launched and its just nose dived in the last few years.

Since which PlayStation launched?

Also, can you provide receipts of this declination? Some of us are out of tune with this lack of games as we have so many already!

 

[Unknown?]

Oh boy, Nintendo is going to make a bank this winter.

Not really. Switch 2 will have one good game, a lot of filler, and no Wii U ports to pad it out this time. I don't think they will be flowing with games left and right out of their first party.

 

[Brucey]

Operating income down by 26%. That’s massive and a lot more than I expected.

Bungie acquisition costs?

 

[lh032]

Oh boy, Nintendo is going to make a bank this winter.

wait like what blockbuster games for the Switch this year ? any games that I missed?

 

[Mibu no ookami]

What original IP are you talking about though ?

Sony just trademarked a new IP, so there's one for you.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

All fair points. I think it is worth noting that Sony were the key driver for these big AAA movie like games, which no one has been able to deliver on due to the cost and time to create them. Now Sony is struggling to deliver these types of games consistently. They are obviously not sustainable and now the fanbase is paying for it. A lot less games, that take years to make and dont last very long.

I don't get or know what metric you use to measure something like that being "sustainable". And I feel its one of those weird narratives that sensationalism aside, falls apart under a little more scrutiny.

As far as games go, sustainability simply means that the studio/publisher recoups whatever they spent on the development of the game over however many years it was developed for, and makes a decent profit on top of it.

As far as platforms go, sustainability means that over the course of a generation, the platform holder has enough of those flag pole AAA exclusive titles (first party or third party) driving platform adoption and adding pedigree to your library.

And is Sony failing in either of those regards? I would say the answer is a resounding NO.

And no on this AAA thing, this is not just a Sony issue, its an industry-wide issue. Games simply take a much much much longer time to make now. And this didn't just start now. Back in the PS1/PS2 gen, most studios could knock a game out in under 2 years. In the PS360 gen, it was still taking 2-3 years, but that same body of work had become significantly more expensive. Development costs went up almost 6-10 fold compared to the PS1/PS2 gen before it. The PS4XB1 gen, dev times creepd up to 4+ years and became even more expensive. This brings us to where we are at now, with most studios (unless you are over 500 people big) becoming a one-game-a-generation studio.

This is not a sony thing, the alternative is to make smaller, AA titles, but if sony, a platform holder, does that, then who makes the AAA big budget $200M+ games? Take 2? We are simply in a time when a AAA game take such and such amount of time to make, and sony has been very smart with how they have gone about addressing that market, Leveraging both their first and third party resopurces. And I would rather have 1 or 2 such games every year, then have 10 smaller AA titles each year. There are devs for that, let sony focus on the AAA games. Even if the current climate means they come once a year or so. Or as a first or third party exclusive.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

I don't get or know what metric you use to measure something like that being "sustainable". And I feel its one of those weird narratives that sensationalism aside, falls apart under a little more scrutiny.

As far as games go, sustainability simply means that the studio/publisher recoups whatever they spent on the development of the game over however many years it was developed for, and makes a decent profit on top of it.

As far as platforms go, sustainability means that over the course of a generation, the platform holder has enough of those flag pole AAA exclusive titles (first party or third party) driving platform adoption and adding pedigree to your library.

And is Sony failing in either of those regards? I would say the answer is a resounding NO.

And no on this AAA thing, this is not just a Sony issue, its an industry-wide issue. Games simply take a much much much longer time to make now. And this didn't just start now. Back in the PS1/PS2 gen, most studios could knock a game out in under 2 years. In the PS360 gen, it was still taking 2-3 years, but that same body of work had become significantly more expensive. Development costs went up almost 6-10 fold compared to the PS1/PS2 gen before it. The PS4XB1 gen, dev times creepd up to 4+ years and became even more expensive. This brings us to where we are at now, with most studios (unless you are over 500 people big) becoming a one-game-a-generation studio.

This is not a sony thing, the alternative is to make smaller, AA titles, but if sony, a platform holder, does that, then who makes the AAA big budget $200M+ games? Take 2? We are simply in a time when a AAA game take such and such amount of time to make, and sony has been very smart with how they have gone about addressing that market, Leveraging both their first and third party resopurces. And I would rather have 1 or 2 such games every year, then have 10 smaller AA titles each year. There are devs for that, let sony focus on the AAA games. Even if the current climate means they come once a year or so. Or as a first or third party exclusive.

The sound of context in the morning!

 

[mckmas8808]

I thought everyone wanted new IP and Japanese games. Not just the "cinematic rehashes" that characterize their major franchise titles. Isn't this a good thing?

Spoiler

I'm not going to be obtuse; I understand that people's problem here will be the general "lack of output". But beyond me thinking that's a ridiculous characterization of the state of things, comparatively or otherwise, I wonder what exactly people expect. Game dev timelines are taking longer for everyone. Just last week, Rocksteady released their first game in most of 9 years. Monolith will not have Wonder Woman out this year, and so will be 7-8 years without releasing a game.

Unless you're willing to say that game devs should get back in the office and crunch like it's 2010, there's nothing surprising or solvable here.

I want devs to go back to the office. And yes, lets BRING BACK CRUNCH! Yeah I said it!

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

Since which PlayStation launched?

Also, can you provide receipts of this declination? Some of us are out of tune with this lack of games as we have so many already!

Exactly... there are always some weird narratives that just form every now and then that make absolutely no sense. Or certain qualifiers and exceptions that just make no sense... eg, focus on Sony first party out put, conveniently ignoring that Sony had proactively secured a lot of third-party exclusives for the specific fact that its aware that most game studios these days may make a game or two at best in a console generation. But we will just somehow ignore all the exclusive content they bring, first or third party, and claim there are no games.

And what's funny is that it's not even hard to just look at the previous consoles and compare the exclusive games that were coming out in their respective years. And the second you do that, that whole there are no games argument starts seeming really silly.

I want devs to go back to the office. And yes, lets BRING BACK CRUNCH! Yeah I said it!

You may actually be onto something. We don't do crunch anymore, hire more people to make up for the lost extra hours we could enslave devs to have done, then let them work from their homes where they get distracted by their dog and taking care of little human beings, then wonder why games take so long to make, come out buggy as all hell and cost so much.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

wait like what blockbuster games for the Switch this year ? any games that I missed?

Whatever comes as launch title for Switch 2.

 

[FoxMcChief]

Is this what happens when you want to win the console war and don’t care how?

This makes me think this gen will last forever and not get hardware refresh. Just the slim. Which is fine with me.

This industry is a mess, unless you’re glorious Nintendo.

 

[mckmas8808]

Hardware sales are up 1.1 million year over year for the quarter and after Q3 hardware totals 16.4 million versus 12.8 million last fiscal year.

PS5 Versus PS4

For the 3rd quarter of the 3rd full fiscal year (yellow) the 8.2 million the PS5 shipped is 1.5 million down on PS4's 9.7 million and after 13 quarters the PS5 totals 54.8 million compared to 57.3 million for the PS4. This means launch aligned the PS5 is 2.5 million behind PS4.

PS5 versus current competitors

After 13 quarters the PS5 totals 54.8 million compared to 28.7 million (est) for XBS and 55.77 million for NSW. This means launch aligned the PS5 is 26.1 million (est) ahead of the XBS and 0.97 million behind the NSW.

Note: XBS hardware shipments are my personal estimates based on the limited information available.

You are the MAN!

These sales would be considered pretty good if they hadn't gone crazy with that 25 million forecast, the PS5 is just far too expensive to shift those kinds of numbers. The new forecast of 21 million is still very high and 1 million above the PS4's best fiscal year.

100% THIS! And at $500, it really shouldn't be selling 21 million.

Spideman 2 hit its 7.2M target and did about 3M extra so far. That's good to hear.

So Spiderman has made about $100 million in PURE profit by now. That's good. On its way to $150 million in profit and hitting that 50% ROI.

That 7.2 million breakeven number never seemed accurate.

I think that's including ALL cost. Not just development.

 

[NickFire]

I'm glad they missed their targets. They slapped everyone in the face with the price hike for online access. Complete BS on their part to be charging for online access to begin with.

 

[mckmas8808]

Why do people instantly jump to lay offs? lay offs happen all the time, but it sounds to me like he's going to look more at the actual development side of things. Why does development cost so much? Why does development take so long? And I would hope... why must all of our top studios work on AAA games all of the time, especially ones with multiple teams?

They need to bring CRUNCH back! Lets all be honest here.

I disagree, returnal and Helldivers 2 have been their best games this gen and they are not from their big first party developers.

Ratchet and Spider man 2 were completely forgettable.

Their other games are PS4 games.

I really don't understand how people can defend their output this generation. It would be a nightmare if they had no competition. They released one game last year, and nothing is slated from them for this year as of yet. Last of us 2 remake, which is a 4 year old game.....just aint it. Go back through Sonys first party releases throughout the history of them being in games, theyve never had release schedules this light.

Ratchet was awesome and sold well and reviewed well. Spiderman 2 reviewed GREAT and sold GREAT! It broke even after 6 weeks on a $300 million total budget! Every game it sells starting at the beginning of 2024 is PURE profit! There output has been good.

 

[mckmas8808]

I don't get or know what metric you use to measure something like that being "sustainable". And I feel its one of those weird narratives that sensationalism aside, falls apart under a little more scrutiny.

As far as games go, sustainability simply means that the studio/publisher recoups whatever they spent on the development of the game over however many years it was developed for, and makes a decent profit on top of it.

As far as platforms go, sustainability means that over the course of a generation, the platform holder has enough of those flag pole AAA exclusive titles (first party or third party) driving platform adoption and adding pedigree to your library.

And is Sony failing in either of those regards? I would say the answer is a resounding NO.

And no on this AAA thing, this is not just a Sony issue, its an industry-wide issue. Games simply take a much much much longer time to make now. And this didn't just start now. Back in the PS1/PS2 gen, most studios could knock a game out in under 2 years. In the PS360 gen, it was still taking 2-3 years, but that same body of work had become significantly more expensive. Development costs went up almost 6-10 fold compared to the PS1/PS2 gen before it. The PS4XB1 gen, dev times creepd up to 4+ years and became even more expensive. This brings us to where we are at now, with most studios (unless you are over 500 people big) becoming a one-game-a-generation studio.

This is not a sony thing, the alternative is to make smaller, AA titles, but if sony, a platform holder, does that, then who makes the AAA big budget $200M+ games? Take 2? We are simply in a time when a AAA game take such and such amount of time to make, and sony has been very smart with how they have gone about addressing that market, Leveraging both their first and third party resopurces. And I would rather have 1 or 2 such games every year, then have 10 smaller AA titles each year. There are devs for that, let sony focus on the AAA games. Even if the current climate means they come once a year or so. Or as a first or third party exclusive.

I agree with your post, but the bolded is a HUGE problem. Sony can't get to the point where they put out 1 or 2 AAA games a year. And I count MLB The Show as a AAA game too btw. They need at least 4 AAA games a year (YES counting 2nd party games too like Steller Blade and Rise of the Ronin) for their PlayStation platform that's not remasters or remakes.

So far we know of two (Steller Blade and Rise of the Ronin). I don't know what to call Helldivers 2, but it feels unfair to act like it doesn't exist. So I'll say Helldivers 2 is a borderline AAA game. So lets just say they will have 3 AAA games on the PS5 in 2024 that we know of. What's the 4th? Could it have been TLOU Factions, but was canceled?

 

[DeepEnigma]

I want devs to go back to the office. And yes, lets BRING BACK CRUNCH! Yeah I said it!

They wouldn't need crunch if these studios didn't have so much extracurricular non-work related functions that do indeed take up work hours like they're children still in school. Social diversity knitting and all that productivity stifling bullshit.

 

[apple_of_enlightenment]

[...]After 13 quarters the PS5 totals 54.8 million compared to 28.7 million (est) for XBS and 55.77 million for NSW. This means launch aligned the PS5 is 26.1 million (est) ahead of the XBS and 0.97 million behind the NSW.

Switch though launched in spring, whereas PS5 launched before a holiday. So while the launch alignment comparison is technically correct, a better analysis might consider that Switch had one holiday less than PS5. If that was considered, Switch would be at least 8M ahead (launch&holiday aligned).

(Great presentation, and sorry to nitpick but I think it's significant.)

 

[shamoomoo]

No 1p games until after FY 2024?

Hw production cut in half next quarter.

Sw in Japan market in the ditch.

New CEO about to come knocking on doors.

Whats the point of a pro console in this climate? They barely have games to release.

This gen is certainly not a repeat of last gen.

Assuming there isn't any additional cost to make a Pro PS5,it would be used as a stimulus for people to get a PlayStation.

If I recall correctly,that was part of the pitch for a mid gen console.

 

[midnightAI]

They need to bring CRUNCH back! Lets all be honest here.

Some call it crunch, others call it paid overtime and its been a normal part of working life for a long time

 

[HeWhoWalks]

I'm glad they missed their targets. They slapped everyone in the face with the price hike for online access. Complete BS on their part to be charging for online access to begin with.

You can thank Xbox LIVE for that. As for targets missed, they still had a record breaking quarter. They’re in great shape!

 

[Luminoth-4545]

Switch though launched in spring, whereas PS5 launched before a holiday. So while the launch alignment comparison is technically correct, a better analysis might consider that Switch had one holiday less than PS5. If that was considered, Switch would be at least 8M ahead (launch&holiday aligned).

(Great presentation, and sorry to nitpick but I think it's significant.)

The 14th quarter for Switch was the start of the Animal Crossing craze so PS5 won't be catching it now, anyway PS5 done well to stay close to PS4 and Switch with it's much higher price.

 

[Elios83]

I'm glad they missed their targets. They slapped everyone in the face with the price hike for online access. Complete BS on their part to be charging for online access to begin with.

The target was crazy high, they're still having record revenues and sales. Their problem is related to profitability.
Hardware is sold at a loss because the price of the components is going up in general and not down. This has never happened in previous gen and that's the reason it required the price increase.

 

[Shin-Ra]

If Stellar Blade’s popular (SIE must have some idea from preorders) they should be working with Square-Enix on a PS5/Pro optimised version of Nier Automata to fill a later gap in the release schedule.

A number of improvements were made to the Steam release (HDR, AA, 4K UI, HQ pre-rendered videos)

NieR:Automata™ - Notice about the planned release of the Steam patch - Steam News

The following fixes will be applied in the Steam patch scheduled for release on 15/07/2021.

store.steampowered.com

And I’m sure further upgrades to character models, shadows, building geometry etc. wouldn’t be too costly to implement.

 

[Shakka43]

They need to bring CRUNCH back! Lets all be honest here.

Developers need to work more in their job hours and take less latte, shrink and twitter breaks.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Developers need to work more their in job hours and less latte, shrink and twitter breaks.

Bungie had fucking diversity knitting groups. During fucking work hours.

 

[Shakka43]

Bungie had fucking diversity knitting groups. During fucking work hours.

It is fucking ridiculous. The amount of time lots of them spend whining and moaning about whatever bs gets them the most virtue signal points during work hours could sure help getting their games out faster if used for that.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Yeah, reading some comments/posts has been an experience.

"dang, they won't hit that 25M unit mark, it's only going to be around 20-21 million". - I mean, let that sink in for a minute. That amount in a calendar year for ANY console is ridiculous. That they didn't hit such a historic figure is hardly a big deal.

"Spider-Man 2 underperformed/made no money" - Insomniac: "no, it hasn't".

Also, people really do let history elude them. The PS4's biggest games in 2016 (the equivalent for 2023 for the PS5) were The Last Guardian, Ratchet & Clank and Uncharted 4. Are we sincerely going to argue that those games were eons bigger than Final Fantasy AND Spider-Man?

Biggest PS4 games in 2015? Bloodborne, The Order, and Until Dawn vs 2022 God of War, GT7, Horizon: Forbidden West

Of course, this doesn't include a lot of smaller games for both devices, but you catch my drift. By comparison, PS5 has been alright. 2024 looks a little drier on their blockbuster front, but not the exclusive front. A console's biggest wealth is in what quality it provides that cannot be acquired elsewhere, not who's making it. Final Fantasy XVI, to this point, may as well be a 1st Party game. Until it hits anything other than PC, that's what it'll be treated like.

The argument I get tired of is "those games are also available on PS4" I'm like yeah, so what? Being on PS4 doesn't make it less of a game.

More often than not, the PS5 version of a game is so drastically superior in terms of framerate and image quality that They are practically different games.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

wait? are people trashing on Play Station? .

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

I agree with your post, but the bolded is a HUGE problem. Sony can't get to the point where they put out 1 or 2 AAA games a year. And I count MLB The Show as a AAA game too btw. They need at least 4 AAA games a year (YES counting 2nd party games too like Steller Blade and Rise of the Ronin) for their PlayStation platform that's not remasters or remakes.

So far we know of two (Steller Blade and Rise of the Ronin). I don't know what to call Helldivers 2, but it feels unfair to act like it doesn't exist. So I'll say Helldivers 2 is a borderline AAA game. So lets just say they will have 3 AAA games on the PS5 in 2024 that we know of. What's the 4th? Could it have been TLOU Factions, but was canceled?

Yh, when I said 1 or 2 AAA games a year, I meant from first party. But they can do that because of the third-party exclusive partnerships they have too. Eg. This year, its Stellar Blade, Ronin, Helldivers 2, and FF7R. Then there are a number of games that even though not exclusive, would likely sell the most on PS5 or do more for the growth of the platform than any other. Eg, last year it was Hogwarts, in addition to FF16 (which was and is still exclusive).

My point however is that things are changing, and right now it simply just takes a long time to make AAA games. The alternative is to go MS route, and just try and buy everyone, that way you technically should be able to have a 3/4 studio a year release strategy. But even with ALL their studios, MS is struggling to just get games out the door much less quality games.

Anyways, the 4th for this year is technically FF7R.

Switch though launched in spring, whereas PS5 launched before a holiday. So while the launch alignment comparison is technically correct, a better analysis might consider that Switch had one holiday less than PS5. If that was considered, Switch would be at least 8M ahead (launch&holiday aligned).

(Great presentation, and sorry to nitpick but I think it's significant.)

I thought it has been settled that stuff like that doesn't affect hardware launches. Being that in any given launch window, demand will ALWAYS outstrip supply. So the platform is only limited by how many they can make at those times.

Spring, holiday... doesn't matter. If Sony could have 10M units available for launch, they would have sold 10M units. If Nintendo could have 10M available even during spring, they would have sold 10M....etc. I also think a good measure of this is how long, in spite of sales, the console keeps being out of stock. Eg. The PS5 could never meet supply even into fall 2022. But by that time they had already sold well over 10M consoles. And no price drops. Thats an indicator that if they could have had 10M consoles available on launch day, there were 10M people willing to buy it.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

All market indexes up today.

Sony stock down $4 (about -4%).

 

[Baki]

Sony Corp underinvestment in PS has finally caught up to them. Lack of 1p content has made them miss their targets. Uninspired leadership at the top. Missing public targets by more than 20% should result in people being fired.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

The argument I get tired of is "those games are also available on PS4" I'm like yeah, so what? Being on PS4 doesn't make it less of a game.

More often than not, the PS5 version of a game is so drastically superior in terms of framerate and image quality that They are practically different games.

Exactly!

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Sony Corp underinvestment in PS has finally caught up to them. Lack of 1p content has made them miss their targets. Uninspired leadership at the top. Missing public targets by more than 20% should result in people being fired.

It can also be said the other way… overinvestment.

Instead of taking 5 years and $100s of million for some of these games, they could be more modest and have smaller games come out quicker.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

Sony Corp underinvestment in PS has finally caught up to them. Lack of 1p content has made them miss their targets. Uninspired leadership at the top. Missing public targets by more than 20% should result in people being fired.

I know, right? They are doing soooo bad right now! Stupid Sony, stop breaking records by just a little! You need to go all out or start firin' some folks!

Singed, Random Forum User!

Meanwhile

 

[Baki]

It can also be said the other way… overinvestment.

Instead of taking 5 years and $100s of million for some of these games, they could be more modest and have smaller games come out quicker.

I know, right? They are doing soooo bad right now! Stupid Sony, stop breaking records by just a little! You need to go all out or start firin' some folks!

Singed, Random Forum User!

Meanwhile

Sony P/E ratio is less than 11. That means Wall St doesn’t expect significant growth from Sony. That means the market doesn’t expect much from current leadership. They just missed their public target by over 20% and instead of talking about how to grow their division, they’re focusing on margins. It’s small minded, uninspired leadership. They need to bring back Kaz.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

Sony P/E ratio is less than 11. That means Wall St doesn’t expect significant growth from Sony. That means the market doesn’t expect much from current leadership. They just missed their public target by over 20% and instead of talking about how to grow their division, they’re focusing on margins. It’s small minded, uninspired leadership. They need to bring back Kaz.

They're doing fine. In LaLa Land somewhere folks may think otherwise, though.

Yes, it's coming off as smug, but posts like this always screech by the bigger picture. It's not like this was a bad quarter for them. The PS5 is still $500 and will have one of the biggest quarters for a console ever. This is on top of major revenue gains and a solid start to the year with Last of Us Part II Remaster, Helldivers, and FFVII.

We can take the glass half empty approach and ignore all of that, or realize that they set the highest bar they ever have and simply didn't reach it — while also still having a hell of a quarter.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Sony P/E ratio is less than 11. That means Wall St doesn’t expect significant growth from Sony. That means the market doesn’t expect much from current leadership. They just missed their public target by over 20% and instead of talking about how to grow their division, they’re focusing on margins. It’s small minded, uninspired leadership. They need to bring back Kaz.

When any company talks margin (mine included) they typically focus less on share and unit sales due to either product saturation point, or there’s some serious cost issues killing profits which consumers don’t see. In which it’s time to turn up the profit angle.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

My point however is that things are changing, and right now it simply just takes a long time to make AAA games. The alternative is to go MS route, and just try and buy everyone, that way you technically should be able to have a 3/4 studio a year release strategy. But even with ALL their studios, MS is struggling to just get games out the door much less quality games.

Yeah, all MS has to show for their Bethesda acquisition after 3.5 years is Starfield and Redfall. Nothing else. That is pathetic. The studios they acquired werent built from scratch. They likely had many projects in the pipeline. Most of them should have seen the light of day by now.

Also, where is my fucking Fallout 3 and New Vegas remaster. I thought if there was one thing an acquisition of Bethesda would have gotten us, was that.

 

[ReBurn]

First, they'll probably miss the 21 million as well.

Second, the output is largely fine long term. PS5 Pro especially will be great for back catalog gaming and games like GTA6. Why did you think the output would be higher than it is despite the pandemic and longer development cycles and a lack of crunch?

Nintendo doesn't release a new game almost every month, that's just in your head. Sony releasing MORE titles wouldn't help it with overall sales.. We already have a problem with too many games on the market.

Sony publishes and/or promotes quite a few small titles that they ultimately don't get much credit for like Returnal, Kena, Stray, Sifu, Deathloop, Rise of the Ronin, Stellar Blade e.t.c.

How can you be sure that PS5 Pro will move any of the needles in a meaningful way?

If they follow the path of PS4 Pro then games could need patches to take advantage of the increased specs, which may or may not come depending on the title. Hopefully that's not the case this time around and upgrades just happen.

From the hardware side, once PS4 Pro released only about 25% of PS4's sold were the pro model. Most people still opted for the cheaper base PS4. I don't know that it would be much different this time around unless they stop selling PS5 base models. The average person will probably opt for the cheaper box, especially if prices stay where they are.

 

[Punished Miku]

Yeah, all MS has to show for their Bethesda acquisition after 3.5 years is Starfield and Redfall. Nothing else.

Deathloop, Ghostwire, Hi-Fi Rush, Quake, Starfield, Redfall, full Bethesda back catalog on GP, Indiana Jones.

 

[sachos]

A third of games were sold on physical. I thought it was dead.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Deathloop, Ghostwire, Hi-Fi Rush, Quake, Starfield, Redfall, full Bethesda back catalog on GP, Indiana Jones.

Those two were almost finished and sunded by Sony well before the were acquired.

Quake cost mere pennies to port. As did Quake 2. The were GREAT ports though.

Indiana Jones isn't finished, which means it will have come 4 years after the acquisition and 6 years since the last MachineGames.

You got me on HiFi Rush.